Protecting Permanency

[weckar]

So, I've been looking at pemanency-ing one or two spells. Then it hit me: "these spells are no likely to be dispelled than any other, but cost a ton of exp to do!"

Well then, considering this, Permanency seems a worthless option for when it really becomes available. Unless we can protect it Can we protect it?

[Gildedragon]

Spellblade of Dispel Magic

[weckar]

A good idea, for sure. Dispel is not the only danger, but a big one (there are other spells with similar effects).
Actually do you need to wield the spellblade for it to function? Or can it be in the sheath?

[Segev]

Is your party dispelled very often? I've rarely seen it used, myself.

[ShurikVch]

Su abilities are undispellable... :smallwink: (short of Disjunction or AMF)

[weckar]

Which is great, but I don't think permanency makes anything (Su)?

And yes, we've been dispelled before. It kinda sucked.
Luckily, the only real loss there were some short-term buffs. A few magic items were suppressed but those came back online in a jiffy.

[Flickerdart]

Dispels generally have CL caps. You can usually jack up your CL using temporary means, so your permanency is harder to dispel.

However, it may be beneficial to have a low CL on your permanency if you are expecting area dispels. The lower the CL, the higher the chance that a dispel will hit some other buff and leave your precious permanency alone.

[ShurikVch]

Which is great, but I don't think permanency makes anything (Su)?Dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell
Supernatural Transformation feat
Genie's Wish

[Gildedragon]

A good idea, for sure. Dispel is not the only danger, but a big one (there are other spells with similar effects).
Actually do you need to wield the spellblade for it to function? Or can it be in the sheath?

You have to wield. But there's poison rings for that.

[Snowbluff]

You have to wield. But there's poison rings for that.

And BLaded Gauntlets, and Braid Blades, and the staff ends of your Elvencraft bow, and...

[Kelb_Panthera]

There -is- a really solid option. It's kinda involved though. You're going to have to craft a minion with at least 21 HD. Arrange for that minion to have permanency as a SLA. Have it take Tenacious Magic as its first epic feat. It can now cast permanency that can only be suppressed by dispelling magic. Have it use this to render spell effects on your person permanent.

Spell-stitched, awakened zombie of something with 11HD, advanced runic guardian, something like that.

[Flickerdart]

There -is- a really solid option. It's kinda involved though. You're going to have to craft a minion with at least 21 HD. Arrange for that minion to have permanency as a SLA. Have it take Tenacious Magic as its first epic feat. It can now cast permanency that can only be suppressed by dispelling magic. Have it use this to render spell effects on your person permanent.

Spell-stitched, awakened zombie of something with 11HD, advanced runic guardian, something like that.
Aren't the rules for Epic monsters different from Epic characters? While 21 characters levels are enough to make you Epic, I seem to recall there's a different standard as soon as RHD become involved. I could be misremembering though.

[Segev]

See if your DM is okay with a limited wish that your permanent spells be resilient to dispelling effects. Mechanically, they'd be treated like magic items: suppressed and thus coming back online in a few rounds/minutes. It's 700 xp and a 4th level spell, and probably not overpowered.

[Zanos]

For less finicky means:

UMDing a beard of karma will grant a temporary +4, and wearing a ring of enduring arcana(fairly cheap) will increase the DCs to dispel anything you cast by 4. To dispel personal permanent spells, the caster has to be a higher caster level than you to have even a chance at dispelling a permanent effect.

So that's a +8 right there. I'm sure there's a handbook somewhere for increasing your caster level, so pull a bunch of temporary cheap buffs out of that and go crazy.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Cast a bunch of low-cost, permanent duration spells on yourself and on your equipment, such as magic mouth, and (if you're immune to the effects) explosive runes and various symbol spells. If their CL is higher than your permanency effect, and there are enough of them, the dispel effect will discharge on them first. Just make sure you're immune to the damage on a reaving dispel. Get spellblades for all the targeted dispels that have rider effects, and find ways to block AoEs, as well.

And obtain immunity to disjunction as early in the campaign as you can. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?331518-Any-better-ways-to-obtain-quot-immunity-quot-to-disjunction)


beard of karmaThis is for dwarven monks only.

[Âmesang]

In the Shackled City Adventure Path I came across a ring of counterspelling made from black platinum, so my character's wearing that imbued with greater dispel magic. Since she's trained in Use Magic Device I should have looked into the bead of karma trick.


Su abilities are undispellable... :smallwink: (short of Disjunction or AMF)
There's also epic spells using the dispel seed. :smalltongue:

[Elder_Basilisk]

Once you start bringing in non-core material like Spell Compendium and PHB 2, you have a bunch more spells that can dispel your buffs (reaving dispel, wall of dispel magic, dispelling screen (and greater), wall of greater dispel, dispelling breath, slashing dispel, chain dispel, dispelling touch, etc). That makes single spell counters (ring of counterspells, spellblades, etc) a lot less useful. Since spellblades are themselves non-core, I would expect that their utility as a counter is limited. That said, most monster special abilities are dispel magic or greater dispel magic so covering those bases with single-spell counters is probably your best bet. It's just not as good as it would be in a world where only your characters had non-core abilities.

[ATHATH]

Put a spell turret or two on your shoulders and have them counterspeller any Dispel Magics (or similar effects) that come your way.

[Âmesang]

Bit of a thread hijack, but some thoughts regarding permanency came to mind throughout the day ('cause I've got too much time on my hands :smalltongue:):

Now most folk who use permanency do so upon spells they can cast themselves; but what about spells cast from potions, scrolls, and wands? Take Evard the Black from DUNGEON #107, for example: he's a 16th-level wizard* with Improved Unarmed Strike and a permanent greater magic fang +5. He's not trained in Use Magic Device, so presumably someone else cast the spell upon him or he downed a potion and then followed it up with permanency, right?

So if a party of adventurers wanted to dispel greater magic fang, which caster level is used to determine the Difficulty Check? Evard's CL 16, or the spell's CL 20?

My gut instinct is to use the caster level of the spell being made permanent, which is awesome for greater magic fang +5… not so much for someone wanting a permanent detect magic or darkvision… not unless the caster custom-orders a single-use "staff of darkvision" at CL 8 that requires 50 charges per casting. 240 gp for such a staff [CL 8 × Sp 2 × 750 gp ÷ 50], but the user could still use his own caster level/ability score for all aspects of it. I won't argue against its cheese, but that should help for those utilizing a bead of karma, ring of enduring arcana, and create magic tattoo.

Likewise I'm sure limited wish could replicate such spells, but I fear the act of using permanency would treat it as 7th-level and not its original level.

*The magazine lists him as having 15 Hit Die, but when looking over his other stats that has to be a typo.

[Cosi]

So if a party of adventurers wanted to dispel greater magic fang, which caster level is used to determine the Difficulty Check? Evard's CL 16, or the spell's CL 20?

If you want to dispel specifically the greater magic fang, you would have to beat CL 20. You could also target permanency which would have a CL of 16, and would cause the spell to no longer be permanent. What that does is not (to my knowledge) an answered question. My assumption would be that the spell ends, assuming it's normal duration has passed. You could argue the duration resumes, I suppose.

[Zanos]

This is for dwarven monks only.
There is no race or class requirement listed on the strand of prayer beads.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

There is no race or class requirement listed on the strand of prayer beads.Beards of karma, on the other hand...

[Snowbluff]

Beards of karma, on the other hand...

You can UMD that part. Worth it. :smallwink: