Building a Bard 3.5 Advice and Help Needed

[Dark Knight]

Hi all! I'm building my first Bard and I've already hit a stumbling block. It is in regard to spells per day and spells known. Referencing the tables in the PHB, the tables in regard to spells per day and spells known look like the opposite of what the text states in regards to spells. It shows bonus spells known for high Cha scores, but doesn't show the same for spells per day. The text that accompanies this seems to state exactly the opposite, and has me completely turned around. I've looked for errata that might correct this, but can't find any.

I'm sure this has been asked before and I hate to put the question out there again, but I honestly can't find a answer that gibes with what I'm looking at. TIA for any help :)

[eggynack]

To my knowledge, nothing in the text says you get extra spells known. Are you referring to the little superscript 1? Cause that just pops up when you get zero spells/day naturally to establish that you need bonus spells/day to get the spells known.

[Dark Knight]

So that's what it means? Thanks! I really, really wish that had been a bit more clear cut! (Or maybe I was the only one confused... I hope not since that would be very embarrassing.)

[Troacctid]

The same thing confused me when I was learning how to play, so you're not alone.

[Dark Knight]

I'm glad I'm not the only one... not so much for the confusion, but the camaraderie ;)

[Dark Knight]

I'm creating my own robes for my character... I remember somewhere that there were some cloth types for construction that would offer bonuses to hide, as well as other cloth that would give other abilities. I think the person who told me this said it was a pathfinder thing, but I haven't had luck tracking it down. Anybody have an idea as to what they could be?

[animewatcha]

1st level bard. Knows 4 0th level spells ( like mending or prestidigitation stuff like that for bard spells ). Can cast 2 0ths spells from amongst those he knows.

2nd level bard. Knows 2 1st level spells. There 0 marker there indicate he can cast a 1st level spell if his charisma modifier is high enough to allow for a bonus spell slot ( not bonus spell known ) per day. So 12 cha allows for 1 bonus 1st level spell slot per day. Also now gains a 5th 0th level spell known.

3rd level bard. Gains a 3rd 1st level spell known and a 6th 0th spell known. Can cast a 1st level spell normally + additional number times depending upon charisma modifer.

This any better?

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'm creating my own robes for my character... I remember somewhere that there were some cloth types for construction that would offer bonuses to hide, as well as other cloth that would give other abilities. I think the person who told me this said it was a pathfinder thing, but I haven't had luck tracking it down. Anybody have an idea as to what they could be?

Might be something in the arms and equipment guide. I seem to recall something in races of eberron about some semi-magical cloth as well.

Have you decided what kind of bard you're going to be when you grow up? I don't think any class got quite so many decent options for how to branch out as a character and it's worth a thought considering which way you want to go long-term.

[Darrin]

I'm creating my own robes for my character... I remember somewhere that there were some cloth types for construction that would offer bonuses to hide, as well as other cloth that would give other abilities. I think the person who told me this said it was a pathfinder thing, but I haven't had luck tracking it down. Anybody have an idea as to what they could be?

Darkweave, +1 circumstance bonus to Hide. Eberron Campaign Setting p. 122.

Glammerweave, +1 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy. Same page.

Blend Cream, +1 alchemical bonus on Hide. Complete Adventurer page 118. Stacks with Camouflage Kit and Camouflage Paint.

Also take a look at Chameleon Leather, +2 circumstance bonus on Hide. Serpent Kingdoms p. 148.

[Hiro Quester]

You can always get a masterwork tool (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#toolMasterwork)to give a +2 circumstance bonus to a skill. Adds 50 gp to the price.

So a camouflage-dyed masterwork cloak would add +2 to hide in forested (or whatever) environments.

As a bard, you should probably invest in a masterwork instrument, though, for that bonus to perform checks. Or some fancy clothes for a bonus to diplomacy checks.

[Dark Knight]

Darkweave was the one I was thinking of, and the others are awesome :) I will need to look up whether several can be combined in one item at the same time...

As for my future aspirations, I was thinking a trickster archetype, specializing in illusions and enchantments as ways to mess with the minds of others. I know this would be weak at low levels, but I hope that once I hit the mids, I'll be gaining potency. I'm concerned with Hide and related skills because of the line of sight needed for many of the spells; being able to keep concealed while throwing out illusions or enchantments seems like a safer and more effective way to use them; after all, it's harder to disbelieve something if there's no obvious magical source (i.e. me) to offer as a possible explanation for what's happening.

At least, that's my thinking. Also, I want items with those skills and such so that I can dump more points into face skills -another way to trick a target.

[Dark Knight]

Question: Can Lyric Thaumateurge advance Sublime Chord casting and CL, or is it solely bard magic? I've been reading and there seem to be some who think the first and others the second.

[Troacctid]

Lyric Thaumaturge only advances Bard. The text is quite clear on that point.

[Dark Knight]

Ah... I found out what was confusing me. One thread on the forums here suggested asking a DM to change it over to allow advancing SC, I assume since most classes will offer the choice between two arcane spell-casting classes. Still, I started rebuilding my bard when I read it. Sorry, but thanks for the reply. Still, I could swear I've seen builds that do this before...

[Dark Knight]

I'm torn on something: Sublime chorde advances bard caster level, and brings it up to 9th level. If a class advances SC casting, does it drag bard casting level as well? I don't think there's any RAW on this, so I'm hoping to get some DM opinions. TIA

[rrwoods]

Check the wording on the PrC in question. I believe (almost) all of them say they advance only one class's casting per level.

Notable exceptions are theurge classes, where the table is pretty explicit about it advancing two different casting progressions anyhow.

[Gildedragon]

If Glammerweave is cool: look into clebdacher glammerweave (share city of towers) for a bigger bonus.
Also the ornate weapon/armor template from dragon magazine 358

[Dark Knight]

Thanks, both :) I got the casting approved, and I've a little money left to spend on the new glammerweave.

[ATHATH]

By the way, there are a bunch of good ACF's and Substitution Levels for Bards. I have a list of them; you can tell me what you don't think you'll use (*cough* Countersong *cough*) or just don't like, and I can tell you what you can trade it for.

[ATHATH]

Also, if you want more spells known, check out Bardblades. They let you swap some of your known spells for those in the Bardblade (Bard spells only, sadly), but require you to be a Bard to do so. It doesn't say that you have to use it on your Bard spells, so you can swap your Sublime Chord spells.

If you want some spells from non-Bard classes, use some Scrolls of Dragonblood Spellpact.