View Full Version : Gestalt with Cleric

2007-06-20, 12:21 AM
Lawful Evil Melee Cleric.

Anything that doesn't include monk, druid, or psionics.

Suggestions plz

Edit: Sorry for being a bit vague here, though a bit may be an understatement, here is the general outline:

Level 8. All books allowed(with the material in the main post being the exceptions.) Stat array: 16, 14, 13 ,13, 11, 10.

2007-06-20, 12:26 AM
Cleric 15/Ordained Champion//Swordsage 18/Cleric 2 (Ordained Champion is 3/5 casting.)

Spontaneous Swift Action cast Divine Power is one of the abilities Ordained Champion gives you. Thus as a swift action you have full bab.

For Swordsage since cleric is already d8 hit poitns consider doing the Monk adapation of Swordsage, or the Mystical Adapation of Swordsage (you can do so much stuff with the mysical adapation of swordsage, so many goodies)

Ordained Champion, also allows you can trade out your Domain powers (such as casting law spells at +1 caster level, you still retain the benefits of the spells in your divine slots), for a fighter feat. Also gives you the War Domain for free (but one of the pre-reqs is weapon focus in your diety favored weapon), thus the only net benefit is you getting another domain's worth of spells to choose from.

Build would be stronger as an LN cleric do to the fact you can get turn undead from cleric, and then do a 1 lvl dip into Dread Necro for Rebuke. The Law Devotion feat is great, as well as the Knowledge one.

Fax Celestis
2007-06-20, 12:30 AM
Duskblade 13/Enlightened Fist 7//Spellthief 1/Cleric 5/Spellwarp Sniper 5/Cleric 9.

You can full-attack channel any touch spell. You can turn area spells into rays. You can turn rays into touch spells. Take the Master Spellthief feat, and you can steal spells too.

2007-06-20, 12:31 AM
Lawful Evil Melee Cleric.

Anything that doesn't include monk, druid, or psionics.

Suggestions plz

Paladin/Cleric Gestalt. Build up the PC to a decent level (pre-reqs for Blackguard), fall to evil, then take a couple of Blackguard/Sorcerer Gestalt levels or Blackguard/Warlock Gestalt levels.



2007-06-20, 12:38 AM
Oh of course doing things such as cleric prestige of Church Inquisitor or such is better than plain cleric. I just wanted to make the "base" of the build simple not to scare people off. You don't need Church Inquisitor or something, it does give a small power boost but it isn't neccessary.\

Also you can use the channel spell option of Ordained Champion (move action, channel a spell into a weapon, it activates on the person when they are attacked with the weapon) to attack yourself with a weapon, and release a buff spell. Thus buffing is like this.

Round 1
Swift Action Divine Power
Channel Spell (move action):prep Spell 2
Standard Action: Spell 3
Round 2 with 3 active short term buffs
Move and full attack, using one of those attacks to attack yourself with nonlethal damage to release your buff spell.

2007-06-20, 12:40 AM
Let's see...

Ramza has already suggested Swordsage, which gets good mileage out of your Wisdom modifier, and of course has shiny maneuvers. That was my first thought, too.

Outside of ToB, let's look at the strengths and weaknesses of your existing class, and work from there:

Good Fort & Will saves
Full divine caster
3/4 BAB (either a strength or a weakness, depending on what you pair it with)

Bad Reflex save
2+Int skill points
No martial weapon proficiency (except deity's weapon)
No source of extra damage

The things from Core that immediately enter my mind are:

Full BAB progression
Gets mileage out of Wisdom with Wis-based skills & minor spellcasting
Good Reflex save
6+Int skill points
Combat Style feats
Martial Weapon Proficiency

Sneak Attack
Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, traps, etc.
Good Reflex save
8+Int skill points, some Wis-based skills
Proficient with select martial weapons

Admittedly, both of those options want you to wear light armor, but so will most things that compensate for the Cleric's weaknesses. Ultimately, it depends on what type of character you want your Cleric to be.

2007-06-20, 12:42 AM
Books and Level. I can't tailor my advice without this info, right now I am just being general.

2007-06-20, 12:47 AM
Ah, yeah, I really need to stop being so vague with things.

Level 8. All books allowed(with the material in the main post being the exceptions.) Stat array: 16, 14, 13 ,13, 11, 10.

Mostly looking to be a knight-esque character, not inthe sense of protection, obviously, what with the evil and all, but in the sense that I'd still follow a kind of code, like the strong live and the weak die, something like that. I was thinking of going Cleric//Paladin of Tyranny or crusader, I like the flavor of it, but I dunno how effective it would be.

Also, what with Divine Power, full BAB isn't quite a must-have for me.

2007-06-20, 12:48 AM
Eberron? Forgotten Realms? Homebrew? Greyhawk?

2007-06-20, 12:49 AM
Homebrew. I dunno about Campaign specific stuff, but our DM is fairly leniant toward, well, everything, so I could probably use mostly anything.

2007-06-20, 01:25 AM
Been gone for a week, so yes I am bring up a post on the second page but I have something to add.

Here is a great Gestalt Combination I came up with.


or Druid/Swordsage

With one of the two adaptations. Lose Light Armor Profiency and get the Monk Unarmed Damage Progression (But not flurry).

Or the better one. Lose Light Armor Profiency, and make the Swordsage hd d6 and get the ability to cast spells from the wizard schools of transmutation, evocation, and abjuration as manuvers. When you gain 4th lvl manuevers you gain 4th lvl wizard spells of those lvls. These spells/manuevers recharge like they were manuevers thus you get them ever battle. Note all the time related spells (timestop and celerity chain) are transmutation, they recharge like manuevers thus timestop every battle.

This is really sick.

d8 hp, all good saves, 6 skill points, wisdom synergy (wis to ac)
Get a true dragonmark. Buy the dragonmark book. There is a feat that you can take that makes you immune to daze (requires a true dragonmark). There is a feat that you can also get in that book that makes never be flatfooted (also requires a true dragonmark, you can get both.)
Since you are never flatfooted you always have an immediate action. Thus you can cast normal celerity (gives standard action at the expense of a 4th lvl spell, immediate action, and being dazed which you are now immune). Celerity is an immediate action which means you can use it even when its not your turn, thus you always get the first move in the battle. Use the standard action to cast timestop. You got 1d4 rounds to do whatever. Now buff (shapechange is a transmutation spell), divine power, etc.
Kick ass, remember you still have the full round celerity, and the move action celerity you can use at any time.
You also have Divine Metamagic, Thus you can go persistent, or quicken, or twin (2d4 rounds of timestop sounds nice).
You also have full cleric casting.You never lose a battle, your DM retires your character for he gets pissed off at it :smallwink:


Also don't allow the "mystical" adapation of swordsage. This allows a swordsage to learn transmutation, evocation, and abjuration spells instead of maneuvers at the same time you could learn a manuever and the same rules. Spells are greater and more powerful than manuevers of the same lvl. Giving the spells the same recharge method as manuevers means you will have a sorcerer who can throw out 6 9th lvl spells per encounter. Need I point out all the time related, polymorph spells are transmuation one of the three types of spells you can learn with the adapation. Additionally 3/4s of the good buffing spells are transmuation or abjuration. If you don't you will have this encounter at

I cast Greater Celerity so I always go first.
I then cast Timestop so I always have time to buff.
I then cast Shapechange.
I then cast some more buffs of my choosing.
Timestop wears off, I kick ass, I then spend 1 minute to refresh all my manuevers and I am then ready to kick ass next battle.

Oh the mystical adapation also gives the swordsage d6 hps, 6 skill points per lvl and 3/4 bab more than a typical wizard ;) This is under adapation so you can not allow such a person you know will powergame have such a pc and you have banning powers outright.


Note this isn't normal TOB, this is under the "adapation" of Swordsage. The Monk adapation though on the other hand is a great and balanced adapation.


May be way too cheesy for you, just posting what you can do with the mystical adapation of swordsage which works great with cleric.

2007-06-20, 01:33 AM
In which book is this mystical adaption of the Swordsage found? I don't remember seeing it in ToB.

2007-06-20, 01:36 AM
As awesome as that is, I know my DM will nix it, he's leniant, but not quite to the point where he will allow complete gamebreaking stuff. I mean, magic is broken enough as is, infinite rechargable magic though? With high level, even 9th level, spells? I don't think any DM would okay it, or if they did, they didn't notice it's power, and the player would obviously show them for the next game. Still, it is some neat stuff, just way, way, way too cheesy, I'd feel terrible using it and my DM would kick me for it.

Edit: Both adaptions for mythical and monk swordsage are in the last page or so of the swordsage section under "adaption."

2007-06-20, 01:49 AM
In which book is this mystical adaption of the Swordsage found? I don't remember seeing it in ToB.

in tome of battle under swordsage adapation. It is listed under the monk adapation.

Yes I know its broken, in the original thread I said don't allow this to happen for it was a thread should I allow ToB right after it came out. My position is that it boosts warrior types which they needed, but isn't broken, with this one exception.

I said it was cheese, my strategy with these threads is think of the most powerful thing since your criteria was open ended, and then work myself down to something more manageble :-P

2007-06-20, 01:57 AM
I have no problem with ToB, it's probably my favorite book actually, but yeah, it can make some broken things. Mostly that. Though White Raven Tactics too, if your DM allows the CustServ stupidity of you being your own ally. Otherwise, it's all just good and balanced, I was even considering going crusader to one side, but I dunno if I need it with cleric, and I don't feel like worshipping Wee Jas for RKV, at least not right now.

2007-06-20, 01:58 AM
But seriously the ordained champion build I listed above would be great (use the monk adapation even if you are doing a weapon primarly, it will give you a backup option, and you can adjust the damage your fists do and channel spells by hitting yourself)

You can fit in 2 lvls of Paladin of Tyranny (you don't want more, too much overlap and paladin isn't that good). If possible take the Serentiy feat from one of the Dragon Magazines (Serenity makes your lay on hands, turn undead, divine grace, and smite based off wis instead of cha). Less MAD this way.

2007-06-20, 02:00 AM
I'll try it out, something like that, at least the cleric side. Where is ordained champion from anyway?

2007-06-20, 02:09 AM
Complete champion. Also look at the law devotion feat (or you can give up your domain power) also in complete championn.

Ordained Champion is a martial cleric prc (3/5) casting, design for clerics who worship gods with the war domain. It more or less finally kills fighter as soon as you get multiple castings of 4th lvl spells for divine power. And reduces the need for DMM to challenge a fighter.

Can enter the prc at ecl 5 (most prcs are ecl 6 at least) with a normal cleric in normal play.

Prc also works great for favored soul, though not as great as it s for clerics due to the fact clerics get domains and can trade out domains for more feats. Gains spontanoeus casting of war domain spells and eventually swift action war domain spells. Lose spontaneous casting of healing/inflict spells though.

2007-06-20, 02:26 PM
One last thing, remember according to the faq you can use a two handed weapon such as a greathammer or a greatsword, while at the same time making off hand attacks with your feat (aka twf)

Add 1 and 1/2 times your strength modifer to damage rolls with the greatsword/great hammer/whatever, and 1/2 your strength modifer to your unarmed strikes.

Also never never forget your wizard or a wand casting greater mighty wallop on your unarmed strikes each day. (Greater Mighty Wallop is a 3rd lvl one hour/level spell in Races of The Dragon, boosts your 2d10 fists to up to 12d8 with a caster level of 16).

2007-06-20, 04:43 PM
I gotta go with the cleric/ranger suggested above. Full BAB before divine power, all good saves, and putting high stats into dex, con and wis makes for great saving throws. Just when everybody thinks you're a pushover you break out the monk's belt and greater luminous armor.

You get a character with the saving throws of a monk, the healing abilities of a cleric, full casting .... and on... and on... and on.

You mentioned being a melee cleric. I would suggest considering a couple levels of fighter just for feats. Actually, if you can, find any full BAB class with good reflex saves and high HD (d10 or better) that's all you really need. Look for something with lots of passive bonuses because most of your actions are going to be either full attacks or spellcasting (already covered by being a cleric). So find something with feats (fighter), combat related feats (ranger), high HD (warblade), wisdom synergy (ranger I guess...), combat flexibility so you don't always need to full attack (anything ToB)

Remember, divine power is nice (I am currently playing a cleric that uses it... quite often), but so is not needing to bother quickening a 4th level spell for every single encounter of the day. Better to quicken a moon bolt (spell compendium) and wade right in.

2007-06-20, 04:47 PM
If you're not set on the Cleric class specifically, I suggest Favored Soul // Knight. Still simple -- no dips or PrCs needed. But Favored Soul gets a little more mileage out of Charisma than Cleric does, plus it has several other spiffy class features and a good Reflex save.

Cleric//Knight could still work too.

2007-06-20, 05:21 PM
Well, a Cleric doesn't need much other than a good spell selection to do melee effectively. You might try a Fighter, Warblade, or some such. A Ranger, if you want all good saves.