Role play rankings.

[wunderkid]

Now let me preface this with I am not looking at making a tier list of 'this is the most powerful' that's been done.

What I want to know is what player experience of concept tied to class has been the most fun for you personally. Essentially a tier list on the role playing side of things but in a way that ties into the classes features.

Of to put it another way which class is the most versatile when it comes to filling interesting concepts.

So bronan the barbarian, played with a Russian accent, who deflects arrows with his pecs while remaining slightly drunk on a cocktail of vodka and sake while swinging a table leg he stole from his first bar fight at the age of 3 is a concept that is a high tier for role-playing fun and shenanigans (because well drunk Russians and rage). This is a concept based around class features, rage, unarmoured defence, tavern brawler etc but with a fun way to role play it. As mentioned below you can play it dex based with a seething rage twist.

So all classes I'm sure can have a great twist put on how to play them. Let's hear your best. The ones that have gotten the most belly laughs from around the table, or had the most interesting hijinks.

Similarly if you feel a class is quite boring to play or that the features don't really gel with many concepts mention it and maybe someone has thought of a fun way to play it you haven't.

So the rankings come down to which class is capable of taking on the most interesting and varied concepts. A one trick pony class would not suffice but one which allows you to play coherently multiple concepts will be ranked higher. My money is on the bard being the most versatile, due to its Jack of all trades nature it's possible to build many cool concepts which this class can fulfil.

[Lines]

So are we going to aggregate this based on how positively and negatively people are describing the classes? Because if not that's not a tier list, all you've done is ask people what they like.
Which I'm all for, but that isn't a tier list.

[Regitnui]

So are we going to aggregate this based on how positively and negatively people are describing the classes? Because if not that's not a tier list, all you've done is ask people what they like.
Which I'm all for, but that isn't a tier list.

No, it's roleplaying tiers. We're not vaguely potholing very similar mechanical power levels, we're coming up with awesome characters that fulfil the mechanics.

[wunderkid]

Yeah some concepts will fit class features perfectly. Those would be the top tier in terms of role playing awesomeness.

So obviously you could play a barbarian who is nimble, and likes to dual with a rapier (a dex-arian it's a build I've seen thrown about and it can be strong and may be great fun to roleplay) but it doesn't fit with the class features.

So it may come across quite stereotypical at first but im sure there are some awesomely fun ways to fulfil the class features with a cool concept.

[Lines]

No, it's roleplaying tiers. We're not vaguely potholing very similar mechanical power levels, we're coming up with awesome characters that fulfil the mechanics.

I have no idea how what you just said relates to what I said. This has nothing to do with power levels, I was asking if/how ranking the classes will work, because without that this is just a thread asking what classes people have fun with. Which is a fine topic for a thread, it's just not what this thread says it's about.

[Regitnui]

Yeah some concepts will fit class features perfectly. Those would be the top tier in terms of role playing awesomeness.



I have no idea how what you just said relates to what I said. This has nothing to do with power levels, I was asking if/how ranking the classes will work, because without that this is just a thread asking what classes people have fun with. Which is a fine topic for a thread, it's just not what this thread says it's about.

If I say the word 'flavour' or 'fluff', is it going to whoosh past your mechanics mind?

Basing a mastermind rogue on Vetinari from the discworld series is top-tier. Playing a barbarian with the personality of Sam Vimes is not. Make sense?

[Boci]

So bronan the barbarian, played with a Russian accent, who deflects arrows with his pecs while remaining slightly drunk on a cocktail of vodka and sake while swinging a table leg he stole from his first bar fight at the age of 3 is a concept that is a high tier for role-playing fun and shenanigans (because well drunk Russians and rage).

That not a good character concept....by my metric, either as or to be in a party with. Now I accept that there are those who who would find it amusing....they are not me.

If you want a thread of "coll RP ideas" then this should be fun, I'm looking forwards to playing a fey warlock / dragon sorceror who has faerie dragon blood in her family history and will be plaid as catlike (I'm fluffing her eldritch sight as her sniffing the magical auras on things), but "grading" rolepalying concepts is a tricky challenge and almost always doomed to fail.


Basing a mastermind rogue on Vetinari from the discworld series is top-tier. Playing a barbarian with the personality of Sam Vimes is not. Make sense?


I dunno. Sophisticated barbarian is a really interesting trope, hard to pull off, but when done right its much more enjoyable than another mastermind rogue. You may not like the concept...and that's why grading RP is hard.

[Lines]

Basing a mastermind rogue on Vetinari from the discworld series is top-tier. Playing a barbarian with the personality of Sam Vimes is not. Make sense?

Why not? Vimes would work fine as a barbarian, can't think of a better way of mechanically representing the beast.


If I say the word 'flavour' or 'fluff', is it going to whoosh past your mechanics mind?

You're going to cut this crap out or I'm going to stop responding to anything you say.

[wunderkid]

This isn't meant to be a hard and fast defining the meta of role playing.

It is simply a fun way to see how people can best link concept to feature.

There likely won't end with an S,A,B,C tier list. But there will be beautifully imaginative people out there who come up with amazing concepts that fit the class (or gish) perfectly. And then some classes where people can't find as many awesome ways to play them in line with their features. They may be mechanically strong and actually fun to play (like the dex barbarian) but they don't feel like a barbarian if that makes sense?

Also a fighter is quite fluidic when it comes to concept. You can be a paragon of good, a knight in shining armor, a back alley brawler, whereas a paladin is a lot more restrictive as they are given oaths to follow, therefore in terms of ranking for this thought exercise a fighter would open more role play doors for the less imaginative than a paladin which would require more thought and effort to make unique. I'm sure there are some epic ways to role play the paladin, I'm just making the point that some classes open more role play doors easily especially for people new to role playing.

So tldr there won't be a set ranking system of ABC but I'd like to get a rough feel for which classes have the most varied and interesting role playing sides which fit with their features. And also to hear what awesome concepts you have played in the past.

[Regitnui]

I dunno. Sophisticated barbarian is a really interesting trope, hard to pull off, but when done right its much more enjoyable than another mastermind rogue. You may not like the concept...and that's why grading RP is hard.

Think of it like the purest roleplaying example of the class features. If a person was exactly what the class features portray, what would they be like?

Personally, I'd definitely take Sam Vimes as an interesting barbarian character. He's a boiling vat of rage and righteousness held under tight control until someone (usually the novel's antagonist) makes it go pop. I could roll with that as a concept.

[Boci]

This isn't meant to be a hard and fast defining the meta of role playing.

It is simply a fun way to see how people can best link concept to feature.

There likely won't end with an S,A,B,C tier list. But there will be beautifully imaginative people out there who come up with amazing concepts that fit the class (or gish) perfectly. And then some classes where people can't find as many awesome ways to play them in line with their features. They may be mechanically strong and actually fun to play (like the dex barbarian) but they don't feel like a barbarian if that makes sense?

Not really. Why is a barbarian who fields a rapier not a barbarian?


Think of it like the purest roleplaying example of the class features. If a person was exactly what the class features portray, what would they be like?

What about the class features of the barbarian's mechanics are anti finesse weapon? Maybe I'm missing something but can't they still wield a rapier whilst raging (they don't get the bonus damage, but they still get resistance)?

[wunderkid]

Because finesse by its very definition is an "impressive delicacy and skill"

Now to me personally a barbarian in a rage thematically is not 'delicate'

As I said it can be a very fun way to play a barbarian, but it's a build that is that to make the most mileage out of unarmoured defence, and is not what you'd expect from a barbarian.

[Lines]

Because finesse by its very definition is an "impressive delicacy and skill"

Now to me personally a barbarian in a rage thematically is not 'delicate'

As I said it can be a very fun way to play a barbarian, but it's a build that is that to make the most mileage out of unarmoured defence, and is not what you'd expect from a barbarian.

That is implying that the more something hews to a stereotype, the better the flavour. Many people become cold and precise when very angry, I see no problem with the rapier thing. Except for how useless a rapier is as a weapon of war, but that's a whole separate topic and belongs with its brother, the fact that a strength 3 person can draw a longbow.

[Regitnui]

You could reflavour the rage as a trance... You know what, rather not.

[JumboWheat01]

Currently, my halfling rogue has been a great fun to roleplay. He's no thief, he catches thieves! He investigates and searches areas for any ner-do-wells in whatever city he happens to find himself in. The fact that he went down the thief line is more about studying how they do what they do, so he can figure out how to stop them all the better! (Plus UMD, my DM loves magic items, but is generally a bit stricter about how things like wands and scrolls work.) He's even taken part in a few more violent and nasty investigations.

And on the other hand, he has no inner voice, he's always saying whatever pops up in his head. He's ruined a few meals the rest of the party was having while talking about the details of an investigation. Plus he was thrown out of a castle after a certain incident with a lord and his (lack) of hair.

[Boci]

You could reflavour the rage as a trance... You know what, rather not.

Not a trance so much as "Some people have quite the fiery temper, they scream and shout and lunge. My anger burns cold, tempered with hate, that consumes all. I have no room for compassion, for mercy, I forget the memory of my mother's voice, the taste jam in my mouth. Pain is a distant feeling, I forget what I cannot do, and realize only what I mist. When I run my through your heart, my face will be calm and my hand will not shake, it will not sway,"

Now to me, this is awesome RP-ing potential. To you it evidently isn't, which is why this thread is problematic.

[PoeticDwarf]

Sounds cool, but a random brawler is in my opinion NOT a cool character, or flavourful.

And why tier list with a twist. Just give it a name it deserves.

[wunderkid]

No to me the cool seething rage is an awesome way to role play it.

That's precisely what this thread is for. If you can justify the RP with the features (which that kind of trance like rage does nicely in a way that could be fun to rp) then that's exactly what I want to hear!

The interesting ways of tying RP to class features. Not I take dex because it gives me more ac. But because the character is cold meticulous and when he 'rages' he does so in a way where is mind becomes beyond focussed. His damage reduction is him being able to assess an attack and allow it to hit him in a way that minimises damage. Seeing almost a Sherlock Holmes style of fighting.

If you can justify it without it feeling like it's a case of 'this is powerful but how can I justify it?' Then it's good.

[Lines]

No to me the cool seething rage is an awesome way to role play it.

That's precisely what this thread is for. If you can justify the RP with the features (which that kind of trance like rage does nicely in a way that could be fun to rp) then that's exactly what I want to hear!

The interesting ways of tying RP to class features. Not I take dex because it gives me more ac. But because the character is cold meticulous and when he 'rages' he does so in a way where is mind becomes beyond focussed. His damage reduction is him being able to assess an attack and allow it to hit him in a way that minimises damage. Seeing almost a Sherlock Holmes style of fighting.

If you can justify it without it feeling like it's a case of 'this is powerful but how can I justify it?' Then it's good.

Please change the title. This is a fine topic for a thread, but the title is a flat out lie at this point.

[wunderkid]

Have tried to refluff the preamble a little to make it clearer what I was asking. Basically it's a question of which classes have the capability for the most varied role play opportunities.

[Douche]

If you ask me, rogues and warlocks tend to attract the new type of players who think it's fun to be chaotic neutral or evil, and having experienced both of those classes myself, they are pretty fun to play that way... but it also leads to a special snowflake syndrome where they have to be the center of attention with their party disruptions or solo adventures while they go burglarize a house or something. Or worse, they feel the need to continually do more disruptive attention seeking behavior each time so they can top themselves, until they eventually jump the shark.

Now I like to play good-aligned characters that are more goal oriented. I think the DM appreciates a character trying to move the story along, rather than getting into an hour long tangent about trying to convince some pointless NPC to do some pointless and risky task that would amuse them.

[MrStabby]

If you ask me, rogues and warlocks tend to attract the new type of players who think it's fun to be chaotic neutral or evil, and having experienced both of those classes myself, they are pretty fun to play that way... but it also leads to a special snowflake syndrome where they have to be the center of attention with their party disruptions or solo adventures while they go burglarize a house or something. Or worse, they feel the need to continually do more disruptive attention seeking behavior each time so they can top themselves, until they eventually jump the shark.

Now I like to play good-aligned characters that are more goal oriented. I think the DM appreciates a character trying to move the story along, rather than getting into an hour long tangent about trying to convince some pointless NPC to do some pointless and risky task that would amuse them.

Odd to hear some of this. Historical alignment guides aside I have thought of Warlocks as fairly lawful. The idea of a pact seems pretty lawful as correspondingly does being in service to another being (although I realise that warlocks don't have to be in service). Mechanically a lot of some warlock abilities can be about non violent solutions to problems (although there is a separate debate about the ethics of enchantment).

I think the RP opportunities of a Warlock are great. There is the relationship between the patron and the suplicant and and alignment type differences there, the desire to break free of the pact vs the desire to go deeper, the view of the patron if the warlock starts to follow other paths, the potential to meet other warlocks with the same patron (Rivals or Happy Families?). The class supports so many different potential patrons of different alignments and outlooks that is can be complex and subtle. It also provides the DM with a means of moving the story along / providing additional information if there is a discussion between the patron and the warlock.

[Belac93]

You could reflavour the rage as a trance... You know what, rather not.

This just gave me an idea.

Elves are very tranquil, polite, and gentle, right? So how does a barbarian work?

Very simple. They fall asleep. If elves dreams, they can be as violent as they want, so some of them have learned to harness that to fight better.

So, elf barbarians are sleepwalkers.

EDIT:
Please change the title.

Yes please.

[Regitnui]

Now to me, this is awesome RP-ing potential. To you it evidently isn't, which is why this thread is problematic.

Oi. I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth.


This just gave me an idea.

Elves are very tranquil, polite, and gentle, right? So how does a barbarian work?

Very simple. They fall asleep. If elves dreams, they can be as violent as they want, so some of them have learned to harness that to fight better.

So, elf barbarians are sleepwalkers.


Now I have this image of an elf smiling, closing her eyes, and snapping them open with her face set in a rictus of rage. When the rage is over, her head lolls and she looks around bemused at the carnage.

[FightStyles]

Here's the tier list for ya, that you're looking for.

S: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard, Any
A: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard, Any
B: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard, Any
C: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard, Any
D: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard, Any

Why are all classes all rankings? Because the class has NOTHING to do with Roleplaying. You can Roleplay a commoner and the roleplaying could be tier S. Or roleplay a Fight 5, Warlock 6, Sorc 4, Pala 3, Barb 2, and it could be tier D. The only thing that matters is the actual player themselves.

tl;dr: The actual players are the only ones could can be placed into tiers, classes have no basis in a ranking system for RP.

[wunderkid]

See that's where I disagree. The idea that all things are created equal just doesn't exist.

A paladin for example is far more 2 dimensional than a fighter on the surface (note I am expressly saying on the surface I'm fully aware that you can create amazing characters using the paladin theme).

But to the novice player if you pick a paladin you're playing this particular oath as concept. If you pick the fighter you have a lot more wiggle room for varying concepts, knight, brawler, murder hobo. Obviously the better the RPer the more concepts you can squeeze out, already we have seen a good way of justifying the dex based barb.

But as an example of why I rate the bard highly as an RP class, if I want to play a tricksy caster. Bard. Smooth Talker. Bard. Mele nut job Val bard. Mastermind. Bard. Thief. Bard (rogue can do it better but the bard is still capable). Basically the bard chassis can be tuned to fit most concepts thanks to its Jack of all trades nature. It may not be the best for a specific concept (like the rapier barbarian). But it offers great RP potential for many different concepts.

[FightStyles]

A paladin for example is far more 2 dimensional than a fighter on the surface (note I am expressly saying on the surface I'm fully aware that you can create amazing characters using the paladin theme).

But as an example of why I rate the bard highly as an RP class, if I want to play a tricksy caster. Bard. Smooth Talker. Bard. Mele nut job Val bard. Mastermind. Bard. Thief. Bard (rogue can do it better but the bard is still capable). Basically the bard chassis can be tuned to fit most concepts thanks to its Jack of all trades nature. It may not be the best for a specific concept (like the rapier barbarian). But it offers great RP potential for many different concepts.

A paladin can be just as varied, even if you have to follow the same set of "values". But all the things you just said the Bard can be, so can the Paladin.

I think you are just limiting yourself to the stereotypes of the typical personas that they list in the book.

[wunderkid]

Well the paladin can't really pull off the trickster for example. I mean it obviously can in a very limited way. But without any class features/spells that will help then your class to concept doesn't fit. There is no synergy. Same can be said for a lot of concepts with the paladin. Once you take that oath you are bound by it as that's where they get their powers from (bar gm fiat). Now as ive said it is entirely possible to make an awesome fluffy rp around a paladin. Which is precisely the purpose of this thread. To find out who has made what and how it all fits together with class features. To tell stories about cool characters that fit their class in weird and wonderful ways. Not to argue 'there isn't really a tier list' because I'm fully aware it's impossible to capture rp into a true tier list. I'm not here to argue that. I'm here to listen to peoples awesome character concepts that fit the classes they belong to.

[JumboWheat01]

Well the paladin can't really pull off the trickster for example. I mean it obviously can in a very limited way. But without any class features/spells that will help then your class to concept doesn't fit. There is no synergy. Same can be said for a lot of concepts with the paladin. Once you take that oath you are bound by it as that's where they get their powers from (bar gm fiat). Now as ive said it is entirely possible to make an awesome fluffy rp around a paladin. Which is precisely the purpose of this thread. To find out who has made what and how it all fits together with class features. To tell stories about cool characters that fit their class in weird and wonderful ways. Not to argue 'there isn't really a tier list' because I'm fully aware it's impossible to capture rp into a true tier list. I'm not here to argue that. I'm here to listen to peoples awesome character concepts that fit the classes they belong to.

The Oath of Ancients specifically says to cherish the light in all forms, and never let your own personal inner light fade. If this means you're a trickster, prankster, ale guzzling fool, then you are. Plus there's nothing stopping you from being a light-armored, finesse warrior using stealth and guile in a fight, which Smiting actually works with. Heck, you don't even need to be Lawful Good anymore, which really frees up the character personality.

[Millstone85]

I like the idea of a character who deals mostly in telekinesis and telepathy, but I don't like the extra fluff that psionics / I-can't-believe-it's-not-magic add to it. Instead, I am pleased with how the GOO/chain warlock lets me realize the concept.


Personally, I'd definitely take Sam Vimes as an interesting barbarian character. He's a boiling vat of rage and righteousness held under tight control until someone (usually the novel's antagonist) makes it go pop. I could roll with that as a concept.Some of the last Discworld novels have added a supernatural aspect to this:The Summoning Dark, making Vimes work even better as a berserker or totem warrior.

[Regitnui]

ISome of the last Discworld novels have added a supernatural aspect to this:The Summoning Dark, making Vimes work even better as a berserker or totem warrior.

Exactly. I'm now adding an intellectual barbarian police chief to my pirate town of misfits.

[PeteNutButter]

Here's the tier list for ya, that you're looking for.

S: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard, Any
A: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard, Any
B: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard, Any
C: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard, Any
D: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard, Any

Why are all classes all rankings? Because the class has NOTHING to do with Roleplaying. You can Roleplay a commoner and the roleplaying could be tier S. Or roleplay a Fight 5, Warlock 6, Sorc 4, Pala 3, Barb 2, and it could be tier D. The only thing that matters is the actual player themselves.

tl;dr: The actual players are the only ones could can be placed into tiers, classes have no basis in a ranking system for RP.

Was just about to post the same rant... +1

[JakOfAllTirades]

Odd to hear some of this. Historical alignment guides aside I have thought of Warlocks as fairly lawful. The idea of a pact seems pretty lawful as correspondingly does being in service to another being (although I realise that warlocks don't have to be in service). Mechanically a lot of some warlock abilities can be about non violent solutions to problems (although there is a separate debate about the ethics of enchantment).

I think the RP opportunities of a Warlock are great. There is the relationship between the patron and the suplicant and and alignment type differences there, the desire to break free of the pact vs the desire to go deeper, the view of the patron if the warlock starts to follow other paths, the potential to meet other warlocks with the same patron (Rivals or Happy Families?). The class supports so many different potential patrons of different alignments and outlooks that is can be complex and subtle. It also provides the DM with a means of moving the story along / providing additional information if there is a discussion between the patron and the warlock.

I agree, the Warlock has tons of awesome RP potential built into its background, and I tend to play one whenever possible for exactly that reason. However, I have a hard time thinking of them as "lawful" because most societies have rather strong taboos against making pacts with devils, aliens, or fey folk. Making such a pact is quite often an act of rebellion.

On the other hand, I disagree even more strongly with the previous poster who stereotyped players who choose warlocks as chaotic/evil or disruptive "special snowflakes." I'm sorry if you've had some bad experiences, but that's a "problem player" issue, not a warlock issue. Some of us can play warlocks quite well, without cheesing off everyone else at the table, thank you very much.

[Hrugner]

I don't really know if versatility makes a class inherently more roleplay-y. A character who can do just about anything doesn't really have the failure potential of one who can't, or one who can but not always. Some of the best social interactions I've seen in a game come from characters with no social skills just mucking through it and hoping for the best. That said, I think a bard is more capable at filling the personality role of a paladin than a paladin typically is.

Similarly, some of the most entertaining combat resolutions I've seen have come from characters frustrated by their characters lack of combat ability and turning toward creative solutions.

So, I suppose in conclusion. I'll say one trick pony characters make for the best roleplayed characters. Their lack of broad ability forces interdependence in the party, and forces creative solutions to problems that they aren't built to circumvent while also offering the character the occasional chance to shine and pull their weight with the party.

[JackPhoenix]

I'd say Vimes is swashbuckler rogue/frenzy barbarian/GoO? warlock with tavern brawler feat and urchin background

Outside the rage, he fights incredibly dirty (sneak attack), is very fond of improvised weapons (unless they are in the hands of his opponents and he can see perfectly in darkness, understands creatures living in darkness (goblins in Snuff) and communicate with Summoning Dark, which could be...pretty much any patron, but most likely GoO. He's not using obvious spells, though, more passive buffs.

[Sir cryosin]

A dragon sorcerer that thinks he's a monk. Punching someone with shocking grasped. Then moving away. Using spider climb to run on walls. Expeditious retreat to run faster. Hit them with a shocking grasped then quicken hold person for a stunning strick feel. Or booming blaDE for a pseudo quivering Palm.