Question about a few of the MONK abilities...

[Tawmis]

Open Hand Technique
- One of the things they can do with this is Flurry of Blows and knock a figure prone - it doesn't specify a size - but would that include a large, adult dragon? Seems pretty crazy.

Quivering Palm
- They can render anything to 0 HP, with one successful hit.

I understand Monks are using Ki and don't traditionally use weapons or even armor; but this seems pretty powerful.

Thoughts?

[Foxhound438]

a) yep, you get to knock ancient dragons prone. super good if you can fly up to them.

b) yep, insta kill the ancient dragon if it's out of legendary resist and fails the save, and deal a ton of damage if not. Open palm is pretty strong.

[Tawmis]

a) yep, you get to knock ancient dragons prone. super good if you can fly up to them.

b) yep, insta kill the ancient dragon if it's out of legendary resist and fails the save, and deal a ton of damage if not. Open palm is pretty strong.

Wow. All right. Good to know. Insane that a human sized person can knock a several thousand pound, four legged beast, on it's side.

[RickAllison]

Wow. All right. Good to know. Insane that a human sized person can knock a several thousand pound, four legged beast, on it's side.

Monks can get pretty insane. There are a lot of tradeoffs for that, but they can be one of the most versatile combat and exploration classes in the game. For that, they take a big hit on the skill side.

[Waffle_Iron]

Monks can get pretty insane. There are a lot of tradeoffs for that, but they can be one of the most versatile combat and exploration classes in the game. For that, they take a big hit on the skill side.

Which is why I love playing my half-elf (more skills) way of shadows (exploration), archfey warlock (high charisma). I'm an ok combatant, with oodles of tricks, but I shine as a face and as an infiltrator.

[TrollCapAmerica]

Open Hand Technique
- One of the things they can do with this is Flurry of Blows and knock a figure prone - it doesn't specify a size - but would that include a large, adult dragon? Seems pretty crazy.

Quivering Palm
- They can render anything to 0 HP, with one successful hit.

I understand Monks are using Ki and don't traditionally use weapons or even armor; but this seems pretty powerful.

Thoughts?

Monks have always been kinda feeble in D&D history so they needed some nice things this time around. They are kinda like status effects in punch form

[RickAllison]

Monks have always been kinda feeble in D&D history so they needed some nice things this time around. They are kinda like status effects in punch form

Status effects kind of fit for Open Hand monks!
Stunning Strike: stunned
Open Hand Technique: prone, loss of reactions (or moved 15' but that's not a status!)
Tranquility: repulsion function (Sanctuary effect)
Quivering Palm: death status

[Tawmis]

Monks can get pretty insane. There are a lot of tradeoffs for that, but they can be one of the most versatile combat and exploration classes in the game. For that, they take a big hit on the skill side.

I definitely see how they can get pretty insane! That's some tough skills. I am about to start a 5th Edition game, and not sure who will be rolling up what (there's six players, and me as the DM) - so it's probably going to be a very versatile group (so I have been re-reading all the 5th Edition books to get it all straight in my head). And saw that for Monks - and just tried to imagine, a Monk striking a Dragon - then, at their will, rendering it to 0 Hit Points.


Which is why I love playing my half-elf (more skills) way of shadows (exploration), archfey warlock (high charisma). I'm an ok combatant, with oodles of tricks, but I shine as a face and as an infiltrator.

So you multi-classed Monk & Warlock?


Monks have always been kinda feeble in D&D history so they needed some nice things this time around. They are kinda like status effects in punch form

I agree. Monks have been pretty weak historically in D&D.

[BruceLeeroy]

and just tried to imagine, a Monk striking a Dragon - then, at their will, rendering it to 0 Hit Points.


That's at the same level that Wizards get 9th level spells. Gate can conjure up the Ancient wyrm. Meteor Swarm can kill it. Wish can dominate it. Shapechange can turn into it (weeelll, okay, a CR 17 Dragon, anyhow). Etc, etc.

And it's a Constitution save. I don't see an Ancient Wyrm having too much trouble with a Con save.

And monks deserve some nice things once in a while.

[Waffle_Iron]

Yeah, I multi classed warlock and monk. It's pretty awesome. My background is "guild" merchant. I took the guild merchant skills and equipment, but the charlatan feature for impersonation and forgery.

I went pact of tome and selected shillelagh as one of my cantrips. I don't have to worry as much about DEX.
My spell selections are pretty much all based around movement, stealth, and manipulation. Currently level 10, split 5/5 and having scads of fun.

[RickAllison]

I definitely see how they can get pretty insane! That's some tough skills. I am about to start a 5th Edition game, and not sure who will be rolling up what (there's six players, and me as the DM) - so it's probably going to be a very versatile group (so I have been re-reading all the 5th Edition books to get it all straight in my head). And saw that for Monks - and just tried to imagine, a Monk striking a Dragon - then, at their will, rendering it to 0 Hit Points.

Admittedly the dragon is likely to make his save and instead suffer 10d10 (which is pretty decent on its own!). Quivering Palm doesn't seem like a terribly effective combat maneuver, but it is wonderful as a... bargaining tool :smallbiggrin:.

For a similar ability, Long Death monks can burn up to 10 ki to deal 2d10 per point to a creature they only have to touch. Need to take out a noble? Go dancing and "bump" into him to deal 20d10 of damage (save for half). Quivering Palm only works if you've already struck someone whereas Touch of Death lets you kill a merchant in broad daylight through a handshake without any way to trace it back to you! Heck, they even get an ability that lets them spend a ki point to deny Quivering Palm its kill :smallwink:

[KorvinStarmast]

Open Hand Technique
- One of the things they can do with this is Flurry of Blows and knock a figure prone - it doesn't specify a size - but would that include a large, adult dragon? Seems pretty crazy.

Quivering Palm
- They can render anything to 0 HP, with one successful hit.

I understand Monks are using Ki and don't traditionally use weapons or even armor; but this seems pretty powerful.

Thoughts?Adult Dragons are in the class size of Huge. As dragons are usually four footed, the prone condition is an interesting thing to contemplate. The monk expending Ki (which is a form of magic) seems to be the sole reason that this works.

[Yuki Akuma]

You can knock Huge things prone in 5e just fine. Just imagine them falling onto their side or something.

[RickAllison]

You can knock Huge things prone in 5e just fine. Just imagine them falling onto their side or something.

For extra fun, have it make them fall on their back! Make them flavor the movement cost as having to turtle roll :smallbiggrin:

[MaxWilson]

IIRC, falling prone also knocks fliers out of the air, so that's 20d6 falling damage to the dragon if my memory is correct.

[DracoKnight]

IIRC, falling prone also knocks fliers out of the air, so that's 20d6 falling damage to the dragon if my memory is correct.

You do recall correctly :smallbiggrin:

Monks are badasses who are perfectly well off when the rest of the party is disarmed. The Monk is in my top 3 favorite classes :smallbiggrin:

[djreynolds]

The open hand "trip" still gives a dex save, and it sweet vs barbarians, who may not have taken resilient dex

[BladeWing81]

Yeah, I multi classed warlock and monk. It's pretty awesome. My background is "guild" merchant. I took the guild merchant skills and equipment, but the charlatan feature for impersonation and forgery.

I went pact of tome and selected shillelagh as one of my cantrips. I don't have to worry as much about DEX.
My spell selections are pretty much all based around movement, stealth, and manipulation. Currently level 10, split 5/5 and having scads of fun.

I gotta ask, you mentioned you were a half-elf so +2 char and +1 to two abilities but did you start as a monk and multiclasses warlock in between? or warlock first then turned monk after level 1?
I wanna try the later since I can do something like this:
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 16
Char 10
this would be my lvl 1 warlock and after lvl 1 I wanna multiclass monk. the down side is I wont get dex saves until monk lvl 15 when I get all of the saves.

[RickAllison]

I gotta ask, you mentioned you were a half-elf so +2 char and +1 to two abilities but did you start as a monk and multiclasses warlock in between? or warlock first then turned monk after level 1?
I wanna try the later since I can do something like this:
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 16
Char 10
this would be my lvl 1 warlock and after lvl 1 I wanna multiclass monk. the down side is I wont get dex saves until monk lvl 15 when I get all of the saves.

Problem: you need 13 Charisma to multi-class out of Warlock.

[PeteNutButter]

I gotta ask, you mentioned you were a half-elf so +2 char and +1 to two abilities but did you start as a monk and multiclasses warlock in between? or warlock first then turned monk after level 1?
I wanna try the later since I can do something like this:
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 16
Char 10
this would be my lvl 1 warlock and after lvl 1 I wanna multiclass monk. the down side is I wont get dex saves until monk lvl 15 when I get all of the saves.

RAW you'd need a 13 in cha (and dex and wis) to do this. :(

[CantigThimble]

I gotta ask, you mentioned you were a half-elf so +2 char and +1 to two abilities but did you start as a monk and multiclasses warlock in between? or warlock first then turned monk after level 1?
I wanna try the later since I can do something like this:
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 16
Char 10
this would be my lvl 1 warlock and after lvl 1 I wanna multiclass monk. the down side is I wont get dex saves until monk lvl 15 when I get all of the saves.

You can't multiclass out of warlock without 13 charisma. This is a really really MAD build and I wouldn't suggest it without a more generous stat array.

Edit: Daimyo Kubota sends his regards apparently.

[BladeWing81]

Problem: you need 13 Charisma to multi-class out of Warlock.

forget that then.... I'll do war cleric instead. :smallconfused:

[BladeWing81]

You can't multiclass out of warlock without 13 charisma. This is a really really MAD build and I wouldn't suggest it without a more generous stat array.

Edit: Daimyo Kubota sends his regards apparently.

ok so lets say I start Monk then, even better since I wont sacrifice the dex or Wis save but my Con will take a hit:

STR 8
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 8
Wis 16
Char 14

this looks awful, its way to MAD for my taste. the warlock spell are refilled after short rest, is it worth it?

[RickAllison]

ok so lets say I start Monk then, even better since I wont sacrifice the dex or Wis save but my Con will take a hit:

STR 8
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 8
Wis 16
Char 14

this looks awful, its way to MAD for my taste. the warlock spell are refilled after short rest, is it worth it?

Welcome to the joys of being a monk. Two stats are needed to function (compared to Dexterity for rogues, Intelligence for wizards, etc.), a third keeps you alive, and you are lobbing a fourth onto that. It might not be worth it with a non-generous array like this, though Hex with four attacks is a very nice boost and if you pick EB then you gain serious ranged potential. Still, it might be worth more to take the levels in a Wisdom-based casting class.

[BladeWing81]

Welcome to the joys of being a monk. Two stats are needed to function (compared to Dexterity for rogues, Intelligence for wizards, etc.), a third keeps you alive, and you are lobbing a fourth onto that. It might not be worth it with a non-generous array like this, though Hex with four attacks is a very nice boost and if you pick EB then you gain serious ranged potential. Still, it might be worth more to take the levels in a Wisdom-based casting class.

I wanted warlock because hex is the only one that can combine awesomely with the sun soul monk and his 4 sun bolts. any other multiclass that gives a boost to damage must be with weapon attacks. By the way, what's EB?

[RickAllison]

I wanted warlock because hex is the only one that can combine awesomely with the sun soul monk and his 4 sun bolts. any other multiclass that gives a boost to damage must be with weapon attacks. By the way, what's EB?

Eldritch Blast, the signature Warlock cantrip. If you were doing Sun Soul, it makes more sense. For the rest, Hunter's Mark is probably better since necrotic is resisted more than magical weapon damage.

[Waffle_Iron]

I started Warlock, and my progression was:
Warlock 2
Monk 2
Warlock 4
Monk 4
Warlock 5
Monk 5

Starting abilities were
10 STR
14 DEX
12 CON
12 INT
14 WIS
16 CHA

I took spell sniper at level 6 (4 warlock) and +2 CHA at level 8 (4 Monk). I told everyone up front that I would be able to contribute in combat, but not be a rock star. I rather shine in exploration, and in Social.

Skill selections were:
Acrobatics, Stealth, Investigation, Insight, Persuassion, and Deception
Thieves tools and Forgery Tools

I also made sure to take Suggestion as a spell at Warlock 3, and it paid vast dividends.