Natural Attacks with Manufactured weapons

[Jeargroth]

I have tried to use the great Google Machine but failed to comprehend the results so little help here please people.

I am playing a Variant of the Wild shaped Ranger.

I have an upcoming form that has 2 Primary Slam Attacks. Ok great, he has two primary strikes that don't take -5 on the second attack. However, I have been confused by what I have seen in various threads posted in various places.

Can I use a Manufactured weapon with my Natural attacks and how would they play out. Now by interpretation I would think yes and it would work like this:

With a BAB of 12 using a long sword.

Longsword +12/+7/+2 (full Str damage) then Slam +12/+12 ( 1/2 str)

Am I reading this right? or would it go the other way

Slam +12/+12 then Lonsword, +12/+7/+2 (1/2 str)

Please advise

[eggynack]

I'm AFB at the moment (and for a number of foreseeable moments), but I think you get your manufactured weapon iteratives as normal, followed by your naturals treated as secondary. So, the slams would tale a -5.

[Darrin]

Can I use a Manufactured weapon with my Natural attacks and how would they play out. Now by interpretation I would think yes and it would work like this:


Yes, you can combine manufactured weapons with natural attacks. The rules are on pages 311-312 in the Monster Manual. When you do so, your manufactured weapon becomes the primary attack, and all your natural weapons become secondary attacks.

Note: there is an "unwritten rule" that if you wield a manufactured weapon in an appendage that has a natural weapon, then that natural weapon can't be used on that turn. For example, a troglodyte wielding a longsword in one claw would not get to attack with that claw. This rule is not actually written down anywhere, and has to be inferred from the stat blocks in the Monster Manual: whenever a creature with natural weapons wields a manufactured weapon in an arm/claw/etc., that natural weapon is no longer available to attack with.

On top of that... slams are confusing, because it's not clear if they involve one arm, two arms, or something like a shoulder check/body slam/etc.



With a BAB of 12 using a long sword.

Longsword +12/+7/+2 (full Str damage) then Slam +12/+12 ( 1/2 str)


Longsword is primary, and your slams are secondary, so there's a -5 attack penalty on the slams. (You can reduce this with Multiattack and Improved Multiattack).

Longsword +12/+7/+2 and then Slam +7/+7.

That's assuming the longsword doesn't interfere with either of your slam attacks.

Technically, by strict RAW (Rules As Written) the attacks have to go in order of highest attack bonus to lowest, so it'd be more like:

longsword +12/longsword +7/slam +7/slam +7/longsword +2

However, I find it easier for me to remember to do iteratives first, then natural weapons after that.

[Jeargroth]

Thanks- I originally wanted the Slams to be Claw attacks but, was told no it a slam. So as far as I am concerned its with a fist or arm or shoulder check. Should be allowable.

[Necroticplague]

I have tried to use the great Google Machine but failed to comprehend the results so little help here please people.

I am playing a Variant of the Wild shaped Ranger.

I have an upcoming form that has 2 Primary Slam Attacks. Ok great, he has two primary strikes that don't take -5 on the second attack. However, I have been confused by what I have seen in various threads posted in various places.

Can I use a Manufactured weapon with my Natural attacks and how would they play out. Now by interpretation I would think yes and it would work like this:

With a BAB of 12 using a long sword.

Longsword +12/+7/+2 (full Str damage) then Slam +12/+12 ( 1/2 str)

Am I reading this right? or would it go the other way

Slam +12/+12 then Longsword, +12/+7/+2 (1/2 str)

Please advise
Both of those are wrong. It should be this:

Longsword 12/7/2 (full STR damage) + Slam 7/7 (half STR damage).
Whenever you use a natural weapon alongside a manufactured weapon (including an unarmed strike), all your attacks become secondary natural attacks, regardless of what they would normally be. This rule is in the Glossary online, under "manufactured weapon"
Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the creature's description indicates otherwise (using the manufactured weapon consumes most of the creature's attention), and any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks. These secondary attacks do not interfere with the primary attack as attacking with an off-hand weapon does, but they take the usual -5 penalty (or -2 with the Multiattack feat) for such attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature's primary natural weapon.