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Elder_Basilisk
2016-03-17, 04:37 PM
I'm playing a Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil game in pathfinder.

The rules are core only plus Cavalier, Ultimate Equipment, and a critical hit/fumble table.

I'm playing a battle cleric of Mayaheine (cleric 6 at the moment--Good and Glory Domains, Heavy armor proficiency, Dodge, Weapon Focus, and Power Attack). Not the most optimized cleric setup, but fun and good for low level. I'm thinking of taking leadership for my 7th level feat.

At the moment, our party is a somewhat unreliable mix because some players don't show up regularly. We've got my cleric 6, a fighter 5, and a bard 4 who are (currently) the most reliable members of the group. There is also a ranger 5, and a wizard 5 (almost 6) who have become less reliable and may not show up on any given session, and a Paladin 4 who is basically out of the game for the moment due to real life responsibilities.

Our three person core is not too shabby a party, but it's got some major weaknesses (no real ranged damage ability, minimal arcane spellcasting, less than standard cleric casting (due to my character's melee combat focus), and no ability to disarm magical traps (the fighter and bard both have good perception so we could find them if we need to). I'd like to use my cohort to mitigate those weaknesses without necessarily stepping on real PCs' toes when they do show up.

So far, the best way to address those weaknesses I can think of is with a wizard cohort. Arcane spells? He's got those. Ranged damage/abilities: spells again. The wizard or the archer show up? Just retool his spell use to focus on buffs/debuffs. But what would be the best way to build a wizard in order to have that flexibility and the best kind of low level spell combinations to meet those needs?

Warrnan
2016-03-18, 10:37 AM
I don't know much about pathfinder. However since you said 3.p I will interject. A typical answer to your quandary would be a build like this: rogue1 with the able learner feat > wizard4> unseen seer10> arcane trickster5.

Those last two classes are rogue/wiz hybrids. I think pure pathfinder has at least arcane trickster so at least you could do AT10.

The above 3.5 build is basically a blaster mage with sneak attack that steals 100% of a rogue's utility skills with full access to use magic device, open lock, and disable device. However if you aren't interested in sneak attacking you could be a normal style wizard with this build only one level behind a pure wizard on spells.

Maybe take spontaneous summoner so you could do something different if the archer and other wizard show up. I would go as far as not preparing spells that you know wizard #1 uses just to avoid stepping on their toes and increasing your tactical flexibility as a team.

If the DM doesn't allow unseen seer, beg him to use the able learner feat, take rogue1 then wizard +arcane trickster the rest of the way. Im unfamiliar with how PF skills work so it may be unneeded.

Florian
2016-03-18, 11:27 AM
I think a Bard would be a nice cohort in this case, as the all-round buffs can give a significant boost to the lower-level party members.

Gnorman
2016-03-18, 12:15 PM
I think a Bard would be a nice cohort in this case, as the all-round buffs can give a significant boost to the lower-level party members.

They've already got a bard.

Sounds like a beguiler would be of great help to you, in all honesty. 3.5, but easily ported to Pathfinder. Surprised Paizo has yet to create a base class in the same vein, in all honesty; they've certainly managed to create almost every other conceivable hybrid. The alchemist is similar, but not really on the same track.

Florian
2016-03-18, 12:52 PM
They've already got a bard.

Sounds like a beguiler would be of great help to you, in all honesty. 3.5, but easily ported to Pathfinder. Surprised Paizo has yet to create a base class in the same vein, in all honesty; they've certainly managed to create almost every other conceivable hybrid. The alchemist is similar, but not really on the same track.

As their Bard is still stuck at lvl 4, he seems to be absent from play a lot. Itīs easy to pick up an archetype that gives the Bard a very different bent then the already existing Bard w/o losing the supporting abilities.

If not for the restrictive class list, Iīd proposed a Mesmerist, the closest equivalent PF has to the Beguiler, tho. ;)

Segev
2016-03-18, 01:05 PM
An elf wizard is proficient with a longsword and a bow. That covers everything except magical traps; going the rogue->unseen seer route would help cover that pretty adequately. Might even make the race more open, if you don't need the elf for ranged weapon proficiency. A Halfling or gnome rogue->wizard->Unseen Seer with True Strike can be a nasty sniper.

Spellthief is probably not in the books you listed as legal. I'm not sure Unseen Seer is, either, come to think of it. Though Arcane Trickster can substitute for that...adequately.

Gnorman
2016-03-18, 05:10 PM
Sadly I think that given your current circumstances, a rogue 1 / wizard X would be your best bet. Just max out Disable Device every level and it can serve adequately.

Elder_Basilisk
2016-03-18, 11:37 PM
Sadly I think that given your current circumstances, a rogue 1 / wizard X would be your best bet. Just max out Disable Device every level and it can serve adequately.

I had a friend who did this in Living Greyhawk. (I think he eventually took some wizard prestige classes). It actually worked really well.

I think it would fit all the roles but I'm a little concerned about sacrificing the wizard level on the cohort. Since the cohort will be at least two levels behind my character at all times, dropping a third level in his primary role is a pretty big deal especially since one of the things he's supposed to be providing is ranged damage/ability when the ranger or wizard don't show up. As a wizard primary character, that capability is going to be spell-based. I think we might be better off just relying on Dispel Magic/Erase etc for getting rid of magical traps (anyone with perception can find them in Pathfinder--that's one of the changes from 3.5) and going straight wizard.

Assuming I do go wizard, what would be a good specialty and/or some good strategies to switch between?

Right now, here's my analysis of the various specialties:

Abjuration: There are actually good spell choices at all the levels and the passive energy resistance is nice but the protective ward has a lot of overlap with the magic circle my character has from the good domain.

Conjuration: Summoning creatures could be effective if he took Augment summoning, but in combination with Leadership, that seems like it's being a bit of a table hog, even or perhaps especially if we've got a small party. A lot of the non-summoning spells are ones the party is already running with (both the bard and wizard are fond of grease and glitterdust is one of the bard's things). I think it's out due to role protection.

Divination: The abilities are great but the spells don't really lend themselves to roles we are short on. (My cleric can handle some of the information gathering with divination, etc so having things like arcane eye make us better at it but don't fill one of the potentially unfilled roles).

Enchantment: Not a fan--especially for a cohort since he won't have top level spells for high DCs. Also, the adventure: return to the temple of elemental evil screams "Evil clerics here" so I expect good will saves, magic circles, and unhallowed areas. Considering it for a banned school.

Evocation: Ordinarily, blasting is suboptimal--especially for a cohort--but if the cohort is the best ranged damage character we've got, maybe evocation is a good choice for giving it a little boost. It certainly won't be hard to find a use for one evocation spell at each level, even if I step it back when the wizard is present. An any element wall of fire at level 8 is also not a bad power.

Illusion: I'm not a great fan of illusion school either and am considering it for the second banned school. He hasn't used it so far, but I expect the bard can cover any illusions we decide we need. (And considering that bards get good illusion access and he'll probably be a level above the cohort at least half the time, this wouldn't be adding capabilities we don't already have).

Necromancy: Turn undead on a wizard is interesting and there are some pretty good necromancy spells that function off of ranged touch so there's some synergy for a wizard who mixes scorching rays and debuffs. On the other hand, lifesight is a pretty weak level 8 power.

Transmutation: Spells are good but enlarge person is already on the wizard's plate (when he shows up), haste will be, and bull's strength is covered by my cleric, so the bonus spells might create some role protection issues when the wizard does show up. A free ability score bonus is a great ability but I'm not sure how useful the change shape ability will be on a wizard who is one level or so behind the average party level and may not have very good ability scores.

So I guess I'm looking at abjuration, divination, evocation, necromancy, or transmutation as a specialty and probably taking feats like point blank and precise shot (good for blasting (scorching ray, etc) and debuffing (ray of enfeeblement, ray of exhaustion, enervation)) and spell penetration (more important than usual due to being behind the party level and at least partially responsible for offense) rather heavily focusing on one strategy with spell focus and greater spell focus.

Florian
2016-03-19, 03:16 AM
Hm. Why not a bog-standard Elf Arcane Archer based on a Diviner with the Sword Binder archetype?
Ok, you still lose that caster level, but itīs easy to handle and good with ranged touch spells. Remember, itīs a cohort, youīll have to split WBL outfitting it and thatīs harsher on full casters when yu have to compensate the lower level with items.