Flaming Sphere & other questions

[Degwerks]

With the spell Flaming Sphere, can you push someone into it and still cause the damage?

There's a few classes that allow their Cha bonus on damage with fire spells, how does Flaming Sphere factor in that damage?

[CaptAl]

1. Yes you can push someone into the flaming sphere for damage. Repelling blast from a Warlock, and thorn whip from a druid are excellent for just such a scenario.

2. The bonus Cha damage should apply to every instance of that spells casting IMO. So, by ny reading, every time tge sphere does damage you get the bonus. But that's an arguable point for which I'm unsure of the specific rule.

[EvilAnagram]

The errata (http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/PH_Errata_1.1.pdf) states that extra Draconic damage can only be applied to one damage roll of a spell.

[indemnity]

...can you push someone into it and still cause the damage?

No, probably.

The spell text states that the creature takes damage at the end of its turn. Presumably any creature would attempt to flee.

But still, if you can move a creature in and keep it there...

[PeteNutButter]

If you can shove, push, blast enemies around the battlefield consistently, look for spells that deal damage upon enter specifically, Moonbeam, cloud of daggers etc. Note they read, when a creature enters the area for the first time each TURN. So like a rogue's sneak attack, it could be triggered multiple times a round.

In theory if everyone in a party of 6 could move enemies in and out of the spell, cloud of daggers could deal 28d4 damage. A set of 4d4 each turn (NO SAVE), and then one when the creature starts it turn.

Suppose the wizard casts the spell at level 9, for funzies, that's 16d4 per trigger, so times 7 that's 112d4. Easiest way to accomplish this would probably be for fighters to grapple and pull then shove forward back in it, or warlocks of course. Trick is you'd want some way to keep them in it on their turn, if you aren't grappling.

Anyways, after the tirade... no flaming sphere does not work because of the wording. Other spells do.

[Citan]

No, probably.

The spell text states that the creature takes damage at the end of its turn. Presumably any creature would attempt to flee.

But still, if you can move a creature in and keep it there...
Well, that's purely theorycrafting here, but you could imagine working together with a Monk, a Druid or a Wizard to prevent their movement: Entangle, Web for example.
You could even cast Moonbeam above a Spike Growth with 2 people to add insult to injury, while 2 friends with Repelling Blast play ping pong with their enemies...

(Ok, I'm daydreaming, enabling such a situation would require either DM complicity or incredible combination of luck -fight setting, initiative- and skill -coordinating teamwork. But still, I'd love to make it happen someday for the sheer fun of it. XD)

[RickAllison]

Well, that's purely theorycrafting here, but you could imagine working together with a Monk, a Druid or a Wizard to prevent their movement: Entangle, Web for example.
You could even cast Moonbeam above a Spike Growth with 2 people to add insult to injury, while 2 friends with Repelling Blast play ping pong with their enemies...

(Ok, I'm daydreaming, enabling such a situation would require either DM complicity or incredible combination of luck -fight setting, initiative- and skill -coordinating teamwork. But still, I'd love to make it happen someday for the sheer fun of it. XD)

Unfortunately for the players, the DM has all of those working in his favor! So someone can do the combo :smallwink:

[PeteNutButter]

Well, that's purely theorycrafting here, but you could imagine working together with a Monk, a Druid or a Wizard to prevent their movement: Entangle, Web for example.
You could even cast Moonbeam above a Spike Growth with 2 people to add insult to injury, while 2 friends with Repelling Blast play ping pong with their enemies...

(Ok, I'm daydreaming, enabling such a situation would require either DM complicity or incredible combination of luck -fight setting, initiative- and skill -coordinating teamwork. But still, I'd love to make it happen someday for the sheer fun of it. XD)

It's really not hard to manipulate opponents with melee. A grappler with expertise has very high chance of succeeding on his grapples and shoves, which could be further made guaranteed if the warlock hexes the foe's str, and the grappler has advantage from rage or enhance ability. Of course this only works if they aren't huge, unless you enlarge your grappler. :D

[Citan]

It's really not hard to manipulate opponents with melee. A grappler with expertise has very high chance of succeeding on his grapples and shoves, which could be further made guaranteed if the warlock hexes the foe's str, and the grappler has advantage from rage or enhance ability. Of course this only works if they aren't huge, unless you enlarge your grappler. :D
Yeah sure. :)
Although don't forget that the grappler would technically also have to enter the area of effect so...
- no avoiding damage under Moonbeam.
- only Druids, Rangers or Freedom of Movement buff would allow the grappler to avoid auto-damage from the spike and very short movement. :)


The "daydreamin'" part was targeting a specific situation where...
- Your party includes at least one Monk, one people who can cast Spike Growth, one people who can cast Moonbeam, one people who can cast STR/DEX saves control spells such as Entangle, and two people that can cast Repelling Blast.
- Your opponents are not mobile enough to be a serious threat to lone Blasters.
- The environment allows you to position everyone so that both blasters are facing each others, with stunned monsters between them AND in area of Spike Growth and Moonbeam.
- And this zone is large enough to allow full Repelling Blasts (or you have enough targets available).

Doable, yes. Easy? Probably not. Often? Don't think so. :)

[PeteNutButter]

Yeah sure. :)
Although don't forget that the grappler would technically also have to enter the area of effect so...
- no avoiding damage under Moonbeam.
- only Druids, Rangers or Freedom of Movement buff would allow the grappler to avoid auto-damage from the spike and very short movement. :)
The "daydreamin'" part was targeting a specific situation where...
- Your party includes at least one Monk, one people who can cast Spike Growth, one people who can cast Moonbeam, one people who can cast STR/DEX saves control spells such as Entangle, and two people that can cast Repelling Blast.
- Your opponents are not mobile enough to be a serious threat to lone Blasters.
- The environment allows you to position everyone so that both blasters are facing each others, with stunned monsters between them AND in area of Spike Growth and Moonbeam.
- And this zone is large enough to allow full Repelling Blasts (or you have enough targets available).
Doable, yes. Easy? Probably not. Often? Don't think so. :)

Grappling DOES not make you share your space with the opponent. Picture holding someone's head under water, but instead you are holding their head into the moonbeam. Like all those action movies where the hero nearly has his head shoved into something horrible, well now the hero is doing it to monsters.

[PeteNutButter]

Grappling DOES not make you share your space with the opponent. Picture holding someone's head under water, but instead you are holding their head into the moonbeam. Like all those action movies where the hero nearly has his head shoved into something horrible, well now the hero is doing it to monsters.

A B C
D E F

Ok the grappler is in square B, the target square C. He grapples the target and does his extra attack to prone them. Druid casts Moonbeam on square C. Wizard/Warlock/Sorcerer/Bard casts cloud of daggers on square C. The enemy goes, takes 4d4+2d10+scaling if cast at higher level, and can't stand because the grapple sets his speed to 0, so he either makes attacks at the grappler with disadvantage because he is prone or attempts to break the grapple and fails.

The grappler goes again, drags the enemy out of the kill zone, moving to square A, with the enemy in square B. Then kicks the enemy forward (shove) back into the kill zone, square C, where he takes that juicy damage again. The grappler then moves back to square B, and reengages the grapple. (Or just has sentinel to prevent him from moving, but that means he has to hit) Note you either need extra attack, or tavern brawler, or shield master to pull off doing two maneuvers a round. When the enemy goes again he'll take the juicy damage again. Ideally you could have more than one grappler, doing the same trick. :D

[RulesJD]

A B C
D E F

Ok the grappler is in square B, the target square C. He grapples the target and does his extra attack to prone them. Druid casts Moonbeam on square C. Wizard/Warlock/Sorcerer/Bard casts cloud of daggers on square C. The enemy goes, takes 4d4+2d10+scaling if cast at higher level, and can't stand because the grapple sets his speed to 0, so he either makes attacks at the grappler with disadvantage because he is prone or attempts to break the grapple and fails.

The grappler goes again, drags the enemy out of the kill zone, moving to square A, with the enemy in square B. Then kicks the enemy forward (shove) back into the kill zone, square C, where he takes that juicy damage again. The grappler then moves back to square B, and reengages the grapple. (Or just has sentinel to prevent him from moving, but that means he has to hit) Note you either need extra attack, or tavern brawler, or shield master to pull off doing two maneuvers a round. When the enemy goes again he'll take the juicy damage again. Ideally you could have more than one grappler, doing the same trick. :D

1. No, you don't share the same square as the target you're grappling.

2. You don't need to kick/release the grapple. Just drag the target backwards, then move them forward again.

[RulesJD]

Yeah sure. :)
Although don't forget that the grappler would technically also have to enter the area of effect so...
- no avoiding damage under Moonbeam.
- only Druids, Rangers or Freedom of Movement buff would allow the grappler to avoid auto-damage from the spike and very short movement. :)

*snip*

Nooooooope.

Grapplers are not in the same square as their target. For Spike Growth/Moonbeam, just stay outside the AoE while dragging your target along for the ride.

[Degwerks]

I, being the OP, was just curious if I could get the damage if I shoved the enemy into Flaming Sphere. Since I could use a bonus action on my turn to slam it into him for the damage anyway.

I'm all about battlefield control and getting more bang for my buck, and all of these suggestions are great. Keep them coming.

[PeteNutButter]

1. No, you don't share the same square as the target you're grappling.

2. You don't need to kick/release the grapple. Just drag the target backwards, then move them forward again.

Of course that's preferable, but since it is dragging some DMs would rule you have to drag them behind you. As always, ask your DM.