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Tobrian
2007-06-20, 05:00 AM
Are there any guidelines/tables for pricing magic items (especially armor and wondrous items) that replicate a) supernatural abilities of monsters, or b) feats?

For example, if such an item were made from the skin of a slain monsters that had power X (aura of retribution), but there's no equivalent spell to compare it to AFAIK, and there's no similar item in any of the rulebooks I have to compare it to either.

What if an item replicates a feat (i.e. a musical instrument that allows a bard to use a feat he doesn't have himself)?

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-06-20, 05:13 AM
The Arms and Equipment Guide (3.0) talks a little about making magic items based on feats and you can find examples of both feats and abilities turned item scattered all over the books, mainly DMG and Magic Item Compendium.

You could also try to base it of a spell that grants a similar ability if you can find one.

However, it does require an individual assessment on a case by case basis.

Tobrian
2007-06-20, 05:31 AM
The Arms and Equipment Guide (3.0) talks a little about making magic items based on feats and you can find examples of both feats and abilities turned item scattered all over the books, mainly DMG and Magic Item Compendium.

Unfortunately I don't own either Arms and Equipment Guide nor Magic Item Compendium. Hm.


You could also try to base it of a spell that grants a similar ability if you can find one.

However, it does require an individual assessment on a case by case basis.

Yeah the "rule of thumb". I was afraid of that. :smallfrown:

Thanks for answering, anyway.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-06-20, 06:13 AM
You can always post your items here and have the community attempt to guesstimate a fair value.

Tobrian
2007-06-20, 07:08 AM
You can always post your items here and have the community attempt to guesstimate a fair value.

The party paladin slew/captured two jovoc demons (Monster Manual II). Jovoc demons have a bit of DR, fast healing 5, but most of all, the supernatural ability Aura of Retribution, which is always on. If they get injured, every living being in a radius 30' around them instantly gets the same amount of damage, no save. They're fond of using their claws to injure themselves... they heal, but everyone else around them suffers.

Anyone, my idea was to make a available to the group two magic items, one set of armor and another item, either a ring or a wondrous item, with that same aura of retribution.



The armor would be either a hide armor or an enchanted metal armor that was alchemically/magically infused with the essence of the jovoc's ability.

Would the hide armor be able to retain that aura of retribution ability and perhaps low DR/good, cold iron without being magical?

Otherwise i'm fine with it being magical, but what bonus equivalent would it be? Or just a flat additional cost?

Would an item made from the skin or bones of a demon radiate evil? I'm afraid it would, which would make it impossible for the paladin to wear it. On the other hand, PCs can wear dragonskin hide armor, and good characters have no problem with wearing the skin of evil dragons they slew, while they'd probably balk at wearing an armor made from a slaughtered gold dragon. I mean, if an item made from a demon or devil radiated evil/unholiness, it would follow that an item made from body parts of an angel would radiate holiness... which is just wrong on so many levels. While I could theoretically see a paladin wearing a cloak made of angel feathers if no angel was harmed in making it, he certainly wouldn't wear angel skin. But he wouldn't want to wear demon skin either. Is it a lose-lose situation, or did I commit a thinking error here?

The alternative would be that whatever cleric or wizard crafts that armor first takes the essence of that jovoc and alchemically refines it, leaving only the magical properties of the aura intact, but "cleaning" up the residual evilness, leaving only a fresh scent of newly minted armor. :smallwink:


So, what would an armor cost? (I'm looking for market value, not item creation cost, since none of the PCs is able to craft armor or rings)

- Hide armor with supernatural properties? (potentially iffy)

- Or a magical chainmail shirt or metal half-plate or fullplate infused with that aura, for +X gp additional cost on top of enchanting it for at least +1 bonus?

What would a ring cost if it granted a permanent Aura of Retribution (as per Jovoc demon, CR 5) to the wearer?

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-06-20, 08:06 AM
There is actually a save for half damage from the Jovoc's Aura.

But anyways, unless this is for an epic campaign I think these items might be a bit too powerful.

The DR reduction alone is at least worth +3. (DR 10/ magic is +4 , overpriced but still our starting point)
I guess you could convert that into a gp cost of no less than 25K, if you felt generous.

The item would have to be magical (the fact that these abilities are SU should alone do that, but the fact that the effect remains active after the creature has expired is definitely a non-mundane trait.)

An item with an Aura of Retribution is only really suitable for a soloing Paladin entering Hell or similar in the first place, ignoring that the item probably would be evil in the first place.

The Aura will create problems for the party if they enter any civilized region or even narrow spaces, since the potential for collateral damage is high.

Trying to price such an item is difficult, but it should be an epic item (>+5).
If you feel certain that the players won't abuse this ability and you really want it in your campaign I guess you could price it as a +5 modifier, but I won't recommend it.

Fighteer
2007-06-20, 08:22 AM
The ability you describe has a horrific potential to become grossly imbalancing to your campaign. Note that I don't say "overpowered", because it is just as potentially harmful to your own side as to your opponents. You'd be a walking bomb of destruction that would indiscriminately slaughter anything nearby the instant you took any damage - not exactly the model for Lawful or Good behavior.

If the power were capable of being activated and/or suppressed at will, or if it had a number of charges or a limited amount of activation time per day... maybe...

Anyway, back to rules. There is no way that aura of retribution on an item is not a magical property, not only because the original power is Supernatural, but also because there's no mundane explanation for its effect. It's easy to say that such-and-such a material is inherently harder or lighter than another, but anything that inflicts ranged damage without ammunition or provides some benefit comparable to what would be created by a spell must be a magical property to be balanced. You can make it a bonus-equivalent (+5 minimum) if the wearer has some control over it or, if you really want to be nasty, have it be a cursed property that cannot be deactivated once the armor is put on, making the wearer a liability to everything and everyone around him.

Fixer
2007-06-20, 08:56 AM
If I was to do it, I'd base it off the Circle of Death spell and price it so:

Special Armor
Armor of Retribution

This suit of +4 hide armor is made from the flesh of multiple Jovoc demons. They have been specially preserved and enchanted so as to make use of their aura of retribution. Whenever the wearer takes damage from any source, every non-tanar'ri within a 30 foot spread takes an equal amount of damage. This damage may be halved with a Fortitude saving throw (DC 15). Regardless of the source of the damage, this damage cannot be negated or reduced by resistance, immunity, damage reduction, spell resistance, or the like. This armor radiates a strong evil aura.

Strong necromancy [evil]; CL 15th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Circle of Death; Price 197,000 gp; Cost 98,500 gp + 7880 XP.

(EDIT): I would NOT make it a + equivalent. It is worth about 180k all by itself.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2007-06-20, 09:02 AM
Firstly, I agree, such an item has enormous potential for abuse, and I advise against it without significant drawbacks (perhaps comparable to a fiendish graft, or fiendish symbiote).

As to pricing, however, while there are few similar spells, psionic powers such as affinity field and empathic transfer (hostile or otherwise) produce similar 'damage sharing' effects. You may want to take a look at them to price your item.

Tobrian
2007-06-20, 12:17 PM
There is actually a save for half damage from the Jovoc's Aura.

Whoops you're right, I looked at my campaign notes again and at the 3.5 upfgrade to the MM2. It's been a while since we played, I mixed it up with something else, sorry.


But anyways, unless this is for an epic campaign I think these items might be a bit too powerful.

I was afraid of that, something in the back of my mind was trying to tell me the same. But I just dig the Jovoc aura, reminds me of the snazzy Aura of Thorns the paladin in Diablo 2 had.


The DR reduction alone is at least worth +3. (DR 10/ magic is +4 , overpriced but still our starting point)
I guess you could convert that into a gp cost of no less than 25K, if you felt generous.

According to the 3.5 upgrade to MM2, the Jovoc only has a DR 5/good or cold iron. And personally I can forgo the DR bit, I'm mostly interested in the aura.


The item would have to be magical (the fact that these abilities are SU should alone do that, but the fact that the effect remains active after the creature has expired is definitely a non-mundane trait.)

Ok.


An item with an Aura of Retribution is only really suitable for a soloing Paladin entering Hell or similar in the first place, ignoring that the item probably would be evil in the first place.

The Aura will create problems for the party if they enter any civilized region or even narrow spaces, since the potential for collateral damage is high.

Ok, I hadn't thought of that in such dramatic terms, but....yes.


Trying to price such an item is difficult, but it should be an epic item (>+5).
If you feel certain that the players won't abuse this ability and you really want it in your campaign I guess you could price it as a +5 modifier, but I won't recommend it.

No, they're not epic, currently around level 10, will probably be level 12 at the end of the current campaign. I'm not sure if the paladin would abuse it... power corrupts.

*sigh* You're right, it's too high-powered. I'll just drop a hint that some alchemist or arcane crafter bought the jovoc carcasses for research and development and plans to make some items out of them, but development and crafting time will likely be many years from now, even in Sigil, where the character are currently at.

Well it's not like the players badgered me to make an item out of the jovoc, it was my own idea, so far they havent even asked what happened to the demons they just left the dead and the imprisoned one at some noble's house and pocketed the reward.


If I was to do it, I'd base it off the Circle of Death spell and price it so:

Special Armor
Armor of Retribution
(snip)

Whoa, thanks for drawing up a whole stat block and calculating prices.
Although, as I was reminded by Lord Silvanos, the Jovoc aura does have a save for half damage.


Firstly, I agree, such an item has enormous potential for abuse, and I advise against it without significant drawbacks (perhaps comparable to a fiendish graft, or fiendish symbiote).

Actually I had at some point pondered the same idea, but I'm pretty sure none of the players and their characters would even entertain the idea of a fiendish graft.


As to pricing, however, while there are few similar spells, psionic powers such as affinity field and empathic transfer (hostile or otherwise) produce similar 'damage sharing' effects. You may want to take a look at them to price your item.

Ok thanks. I don't use psionics in my game so I have only skimmed the Psionics Handbook once, but I'll have a look.


The ability you describe has a horrific potential to become grossly imbalancing to your campaign. Note that I don't say "overpowered", because it is just as potentially harmful to your own side as to your opponents. You'd be a walking bomb of destruction that would indiscriminately slaughter anything nearby the instant you took any damage - not exactly the model for Lawful or Good behavior.

If you phrase it like that... :smallbiggrin:

"Stop! Or the paladin starts cutting his nails, and you know, he might slip with the scissors!"


Thank You to all who replied.

Quietus
2007-06-20, 01:05 PM
Well, as far as the Affinity Field goes...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/affinityField.htm

It's got a range of 20 feet. You share damage, healing, and all spells/powers up to third level, with a fort save to negate the spell effects. The only problem comes when you start pricing out a continuous effect for a 9th level power with a 1round/level duration. Total cost to add this ability to something :

power level * caster level * 2,000 GP * 4 (for duration)
9 * 17 * 2,000 * 4


Final cost : 1,224,000