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Zincorium
2007-06-20, 05:12 AM
I've been working on a home-brew campaign world for a while now, that's kind of developed from a setting for D&D to a game that just happens to be based off of D&D. Of course, I've hit roadblocks a few times, and since the boards are a wealth of experience and creativity, I'm looking for advice or suggestions on how to make the ideas I have actually work in game.

Anyway, the main obstacle (there are others, but not going to go into those here) is the way I'd like to do races. So far, I have three in addition to normal humans that have been added into the setting, and in terms of talents and capability they're all pretty much human. The orcs may be more muscular on average, and the elves more dexterous, but the limitations and extremes are the same. However, everyone having the exact same abilities seems boring and nonsensical, so inspired by the racial paragons in UA I've gotten the idea to have all non-human races start with a single level in a unique racial class, while humans can pick and choose any. All get the bonus feat, skill, and I'm just getting rid of favored classes (and much of the PHB class selection regardless).

The problem is then how to balance them, which is compounded by the fact that I'm looking at reducing the caster classes to just sorcerors, somewhat altered favoured souls, and a few partial casters and then adding in the martial adept classes from ToB. It's very hard to balance things with just one or two people having input (see pun-pun for a good example) so the more input, the better it'll probably play.

Since one class level is all that they can take, and other class features are slowed, I'm thinking of making them a bit more powerful than base classes to make up for the lack of versatility. Also, since the classes represent the traditional training of the culture rather than a natural proclivity, exceptions would be made to some degree for unusual characters.

With all that in mind, here's the basics of what I've got so far:

Moncorasi (AKA Mystics):

Ancient human empire, now in decline, all citizens are transformed through a ritual after puberty and having children of their own into technically immortal, nonliving beings. They are not undead in the D&D sense, but they're metabolism is completely stopped while they retain mobility and intellect. There is a strong push for them to be sorcerors, but it's not unknown to have a few rebels in each generation that use their talents elsewhere.
-10+con hp
-.5 BAB
-Strong will save, weak reflex and fortitude.
-(5+int)x4 skill points, list as monk.
-proficient in simple weapons.
-Do not heal naturally, but can use repair spells to regain hit points
-They do not eat, drink, sleep, etc. and in fact cannot. Spells are recovered once in a 24 hour period, time is based on DM's discretion, over a period of 4 hours, spell use within this period interrupts the recovery and only one spell slot per hour prior to that casting is regained. Refraining for an additional 4 hours past this time restores all spells. Cannot use potions or consumed items (i.e. hero's feast, goodberry).
-Can cast spells as sorceror, but only gain bonus 1st level spells from high charisma and start knowing 3 first level spells, which are added to the casting list of all casting classes afterwards. Represents a greater magical knowledge from schooling, but little actual skill.


Orcs:

Not the conventional sort. Human barbarian tribe altered by the Moncorasi a long time ago to be cosmetically more like their animal totems such as frog, boar, panther and several others in exchange for the orcs eternally serving the Mystics. Currently exist in a very tradition-bound manner among the Mystics as a sort of permanent underclass and for the most part don't see it as a bad arrangement. Children of orcs are always orcs.
-12 + con HP
- +1 BAB
-Strong fortitude and will saves, weak reflex
-(3+int)x4 skill points, list as warblade.
-proficient in all martial weapons.
-Endurance and power attack as bonus feats
-Very skilled in crafting weapons and armor, +3 on craft checks involving metal and easy access to forges in any Moncorasi settlement.


Elves:

Less a distinct race and more a perturbation of normal humans families which remain isolated for too long, elves are hyperactive and scatter-brained. Their features are angular and they tend to have traces of glittery, many colored pigments in their eyes, hair and skin. While they are generally unable to harness their energy towards invention or art, they are fascinated by gadgetry and oddly styled clothing. Elves travel constantly and have been appearing since recorded history. There are no half elves, children of mixed parents are the same as their mother, down to hair, eye, and skin color with no mixing.

-6 + con Hp
-.75 BAB
-Good reflex save.
-(9 + int) x 4 skill points, list as scout (with disable device erratae'd)
-Proficient in simple weapons. However, the idea of proficiency fits poorly with the elves' knack for learning the ins and outs of new weapons, and elves take only a -2 rather than the standard -4 when wielding weapons in which they are not proficient, including improvised weapons.
-Trapfinding
-Bardic knowledge (bard no longer being a class)
-Elves select a single 0th level spell from any list and can cast this spell at will. Once selected, this spell cannot be changed.


Anyway, this is probably a lot to read and I won't get many responses, but I appreciate thoughts on the idea as well as the specifics. There is also a lot more in the way of history and culture for each as well as the world itself, but I'm taking up too much space already.

Edit: spoiler tags added for ease of use.

JackMage666
2007-06-20, 12:48 PM
Moncorasi (AKA Mystics):

-(5+int)x4 skill points, list as sorceror
You may want to reconsider this. One of the reasons the Sorcerer only gets 2+int is because there are so few class skills. With this, you gain alot of skill ranks, without many skills to choose from.

-Don't eat, drink, sleep, etc. Regain spells every 24 hours regardless of time spent 'resting'. Cannot use potions or consumed items (i.e. hero's feast, goodberry).
To start, the word you want to use is "Doesn't". To go one, most of it is fine, as I compare to the Warforged. However. they should have to rest for 8 hours like any spellcaster would. Even Warforged and Elves (though elves have to for 4 hours anyway), have to rest for 8 hours to regain spells, and that should not change.

-Can cast spells as sorceror, but only gain bonus 1st level spells from high charisma and start knowing 3 first level spells, which are added to the casting list of all casting classes afterwards. Represents a greater magical knowledge from schooling, but little actual skill.
From my understanding, you basically gain a level of Sorcerer. If this is your 1st level in the Racial Class, it's fine - If it's racial traits, it's definately +1 LA.


Orcs:

-Endurance and power attack as bonus feats
Do they still gain the bonus feat for being Human (technically)? If so, you might want to reduce this down to just one bonus feat (I'd recommend Power Attack, though you could offer the choice). Otherwise, he's go 4 feats at first level, and with go either Ranger or Fighter (most likely, based on racial class), to gain more. That's alot of feats.

Other than that, it looks good.


Elves:

-All good saves.
Seems a little odd they get good Fort saves when they're generally considered frail (and you think so as well, due to the low hit points). Also, getting All Good Saves ALWAYS helps for the future, and it's a bit unbalancing for the other race/classes.

-Proficient in all weapons, including exotic. Elves seem to not understand why certain weapons are harder to use for everyone else.
That's really too powerful. Exotic weapons are supposed to be special, especially because some can be pretty cheesy (spiked chain!). Also, it doesn't make much sense. I don't see why they wouldn't have any trouble weilding an Orc Double-Axe or a Dwarven War-Axe, ect. Really, this ability is too powerful.

-Prestidigitation at will
Yes, it's a cool ability, but why? This doesn't make much sense as an ability, it just seems like you wanted to give it to people.

Zincorium
2007-06-20, 05:14 PM
You may want to reconsider this. One of the reasons the Sorcerer only gets 2+int is because there are so few class skills. With this, you gain alot of skill ranks, without many skills to choose from.

To start, the word you want to use is "Doesn't". To go one, most of it is fine, as I compare to the Warforged. However. they should have to rest for 8 hours like any spellcaster would. Even Warforged and Elves (though elves have to for 4 hours anyway), have to rest for 8 hours to regain spells, and that should not change.


'(they) don't' looked more correct to me as I was typing it up. Changed. However, the 8 hours of rest for spellcasters, especially since all casters in the campaign are spontaneous, made no sense whatsoever from a flavor or game balance perspective. I'm aware the precedent is to have casters rest anyways, I'm of the belief that there's no reason to have it that way.



From my understanding, you basically gain a level of Sorcerer. If this is your 1st level in the Racial Class, it's fine - If it's racial traits, it's definately +1 LA.


Er, yeah, it's the racial class. Bit nonsensical for it to have hit points and skills as racial traits.



Do they still gain the bonus feat for being Human (technically)? If so, you might want to reduce this down to just one bonus feat (I'd recommend Power Attack, though you could offer the choice). Otherwise, he's go 4 feats at first level, and with go either Ranger or Fighter (most likely, based on racial class), to gain more. That's alot of feats.


Yes, they all do, and no, it doesn't seem like it'll be a problem. If someone decides to bug me into letting them be a fighter when there's ToB classes are better supported by the setting, then I'm not going to try and correct them.

Power attack is useful, endurance seemed more of support for the flavor, it's not that good of a feat.



Seems a little odd they get good Fort saves when they're generally considered frail (and you think so as well, due to the low hit points). Also, getting All Good Saves ALWAYS helps for the future, and it's a bit unbalancing for the other race/classes.


They're no frailer than humans, just very good at escaping from harm. It can be changed, but I don't really see it as overpowered considering that progression stops, and they have to use whatever class comes next instead. Also, with the fractional BAB and saves (which I hinted at but never stated directly) it's a lot less overpowering.



That's really too powerful. Exotic weapons are supposed to be special, especially because some can be pretty cheesy (spiked chain!). Also, it doesn't make much sense. I don't see why they wouldn't have any trouble weilding an Orc Double-Axe or a Dwarven War-Axe, ect. Really, this ability is too powerful.


Really? I've never seen exotic weapons other than the spiked chain used in play because it's considered a waste of a feat. And the spiked chain isn't that much better than a polearm and spiked armor.



Yes, it's a cool ability, but why? This doesn't make much sense as an ability, it just seems like you wanted to give it to people.

Again, can be taken out, but it seemed an easy way to reflect a race that exists because of high levels of surrounding magic and that magic continually flows through them.

Poppatomus
2007-06-20, 05:36 PM
Very cool stuff. I'm not much good on the crunch, so I can't critique most of it, but I have to second that you need to address the spell regen bit.

The problem is stacking spell regen. Say spells automatically return at midnight. That character is going to quickly become nocturnal, and have twice as many "spells per day" as a normal character. If spells regen 24 hours after they are cast its going to be a book keeping nightmare, with each cast's timing needing to be tracked precisely and spells constantly phasing in and out.

If you don't want them to need to rest that's fine, but maybe a spell point system or some other mechanic could be used, rather then auto prepare.

Matthew
2007-06-22, 05:31 PM
Some interesting ideas here. Are you putting the Setting up on the Boards or is it already available to view?

Zincorium
2007-06-22, 11:38 PM
Some interesting ideas here. Are you putting the Setting up on the Boards or is it already available to view?

Thinking about it, but there's a lot of stuff that needs explaining, I'm just skimming the surface with the race descriptions here. Mostly my concern is as long as it looks to be, is whether anyone is actually going to care. I'm envisioning lots of spoiler tags.

Mostly my problem is actually implementing it into a game rather than just a collection of ideas. If anyone's interested I'll give it a try.

Matthew
2007-06-22, 11:45 PM
Try writing an Abstract and putting it up for comment. In my opinion, people are less inclined to read huge Threads, but perseverance pays off. I have a stack of links to Homebrew Settings, but very few of them get regular updates, most are discontinued. Be patient, be regular (like once every couple of days), don't go overboard and leave room for useful critique.

Krimm's Nation of the Dead Setting Thread is a good example of a continuing Setting, I think.

ZeroNumerous
2007-06-23, 12:20 AM
I'm aware the precedent is to have casters rest anyways, I'm of the belief that there's no reason to have it that way.

I very much agree with this. It's exceptionally silly that anyone sans clerics and wizards have to rest to regain spells. Their magic is inherent, it should recover eventually.

The thing I like about this is that it actually forces someone to be very conservative with his/her spells. Especially when considering that most adventuring parties stop to let the caster(s) regain their spells.

Matthew
2007-06-23, 12:56 AM
I don't know, there is some sense in having them rest if Casting somehow drains their physical or mental energy. I always think of Merlin in Excalibur's comment that he had to sleep for a month after transforming Uther and his two companions into the likeness of their enemies so that he could have his way with Igraine.

Joltz
2007-06-23, 12:33 PM
Free proficiency with every exotic weapon is insane. Individual exotic weapons are rarely worth a feat, but getting all of them free makes all other weapons obsolete.

longsword- bastard sword
rapier- elven thinblade
dagger- drow longknife
shortsword- elven lightblade
greatsword- fullblade
greataxe- warmace (1d12 and x3 crit on a 1-handed weapon =o)
longbow- greatbow

If I wanted to dig out books and think a little harder I could go on. There's an exotic weapon that improves on just about every weapon out there.

Zincorium
2007-06-23, 06:48 PM
Okay, yeah, now that I've thought about it a bit, exotic weapon proficiency is still too much. However, ease of use of unfamiliar weapons and items is part of the elves' fluff. So, editing it to give them simple weapon proficiency and they only take -2 when wielding weapons where they are not proficient.

Also, adding in a caveat that the Moncorasi casters cannot recover spells until no spells have been used for the last 4 hours. Prevents the 'midnight' abuse cited, although player control of combat and spell recovery to that degree seems absurd anyway.

And an few other minor things.