How to Handle foes with reach bigger than me?

[theboss]

Yesterday in our weekly session, i came across a storm-giant and i was eager to fight him (turns out he's also frenzied berserker and CR 18- thanks for helping my DM put alot stronger foes than usual http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?481845-unbalanced-team) so short story, i lost of course...
The main reason is his reach (and his unbeilevable electricty damage -like 39 electricty damage per hit, not including his 2 handed weapon with 46 str which if my math's right is 27 damage per hit not including electricty and base weapon damage).
So my question is how do i handle reach attacks? Tumble? magic items? Acrobatic Charge? And for another question Currently im large size and holding Huge Scimiter in each hand (with a magic item that lets me hold weapons 1 size catogry larger than me), do i get a reach of Huge size player?

Thanks In Advance, Sorry for the bad english ...

[ComaVision]

Tumble works, tactical teleport items like the Anklet of Translocation would work too.

You have the reach of a large character. Weapon size does not determine reach.

[PallentisLunam]

Depending on your team there are plenty of forced movement spells your allies could cast the would negate your opponents reach.

[Zaq]

What's your character like? How do you fight normally?

Reach is a big advantage if your opponent has good battlefield control (Stand Still, Improved Trip/Knockdown, etc.); if your opponent is just doing damage on an AoO, then reach is still an advantage, but it's not an automatic win for the guy with more reach. Basically, the first turn is going to suck while you get close to him, but unless he's got some way of full attacking and still moving, his reach is no longer an advantage once you close in and can get him within your reach.

Once he's within your melee reach, if nobody moves, then you're just trading d20s until one of you falls over; sounds like he hits like a ton of bricks anyway, but his reach specifically is no longer an issue. If he 5 ft steps to where you're in his reach but he's not in your reach, you can just 5 ft step back on your turn and hit him again anyway. (If he can get more than 5 ft away on a 5 ft step or the equivalent, then that falls under the "way of full attacking and still moving" that I mentioned above, so that's a different story.) If he attacks you and moves away (so that you have to provoke getting close to him again), you still get an AoO on him unless he can Tumble, and you have the option of Tumbling as well (if you're trained). So with no Tumbling, you get two swings per initiative cycle (one AoO when he moves away, one standard action attack after you close in with him) and he gets two swings per initiative cycle (one standard action attack before moving away, one AoO when you close in with him), so again, his reach isn't a huge advantage unless you have difficulty closing in with him.

Again, if he can use battlefield control to keep you in his reach while staying out of your reach, then that's a totally different story. If he has a way of attacking and moving in a manner that you can't match, yeah, different story. If you can't get him in your melee reach at all, none of what I'm saying applies. And if you can't beat him in a slugfest anyway, then the fact that his reach gives him an extra attack while you close in (or an extra turn of attacks, depending on who goes first) is entirely likely to put the battle over the top in his favor. But if his reach is his only advantage, then your job is to get up close to him and put the fight on your terms.

(This assumes, of course, that your only viable fighting style is melee beatstickery. If you've got help from your party, you definitely want to take that into consideration. If you've got any ranged capabilities, maybe those are more appropriate here. Maybe you can think your way past him or use the environment to your advantage. There's more to D&D combat than two melee brutes trading d20s until they run out of numbers.)

[Telonius]

Any chance you can get a Shambling Mound on your team?

You should really have some kind of a backup ranged weapon, just for situations like this. Otherwise, get a miss chance on yourself if you can. I know he's modified, but his Dex should be pretty low. Beat him in initiative and one-shot him, if you can; his strength doesn't matter if he's dead.

[Flickerdart]

Pull out a backup bow and shoot him with arrows. Eventually he'll die.

[theboss]

Any chance you can get a Shambling Mound on your team?


As a companion? Didnt quite understood u, And if i had him i cannot see the benieft from him..




You should really have some kind of a backup ranged weapon, just for situations like this. Otherwise, get a miss chance on yourself if you can. I know he's modified, but his Dex should be pretty low. Beat him in initiative and one-shot him, if you can; his strength doesn't matter if he's dead.


I do have a ranged backup weapon but that doesnt matter since he move quicker than me (since he's huge), Further, he's a frenzied berserker so i didnt have even a single chance to beat him..
How do i one shot creatue who can get easily to 300 hp? i can reach that with a full attacks, moreover, i took robilar's gambit-Karamic strike-Double hit, but since he had reach i didnt beniefted from that... so he's my idealstic counter melee foe...

[Inevitability]

Pull out a backup bow and shoot him with arrows. Eventually he'll die.

I have this feeling 'shoot the CR 18 frenzied berserker giant to death' will take a bit longer than 'giant charges, you die'.

And yes, the giant can reach the player. It's a CR 18 creature: flying and teleportation have been available to it for a long time.

[theboss]

Any chance you can get a Shambling Mound on your team?

You should really have some kind of a backup ranged weapon, just for situations like this. Otherwise, get a miss chance on yourself if you can. I know he's modified, but his Dex should be pretty low. Beat him in initiative and one-shot him, if you can; his strength doesn't matter if he's dead.


I have this feeling 'shoot the CR 18 frenzied berserker giant to death' will take a bit longer than 'giant charges, you die'.

And yes, the giant can reach the player. It's a CR 18 creature: flying and teleportation have been available to it for a long time.

But im level 14... And how do u kill a frenzied berserker with pyshical damage? he cannot die from it while he rage on....

[SwordChucks]

Well if you're trying to solo a CR 18 at lvl 14, you're going to have problems. Help from a caster party member is going to help greatly. Between battlefield control and save-or-die/lose spells the caster can lock down the badguy and you can whack him while he's down.

If you want to out reach him you could try a spiked chain. If you're large sized it should give you 20' of reach which should be 5' more than the giant.

[Zaq]

But im level 14... And how do u kill a frenzied berserker with pyshical damage? he cannot die from it when he rage on....

Frenzy doesn't last forever, and it has downsides. So you need to either run away and outlast his frenzy or you need to set things up so that his frenzy is enough of a downside that he doesn't want to be in it anymore. Going toe-to-toe with a frenzying FB is about the worst possible strategy, because like you said, you can't win through HP damage alone. So if your game is just to do HP damage, you're going to lose, so you need to play a different game. Deathless Frenzy changes combat from a numbers game to a puzzle. You can't win through numbers. You can't win through brute strength (unless you have enough HP to survive all his attacks until his frenzy runs out, which is unlikely). You can't approach this kind of combat the way you approach any other.

The most obvious downside to Frenzy is an inability to make certain kinds of skill checks, including DEX-based ones. Which includes Balance. So if you can put him on some kind of slippery surface that requires a Balance check (the Grease spell is the classic choice), he's specifically not allowed to get away from it until he ends his frenzy. If you have a friendly caster, that can be their job; if you don't, you can improvise with marbles or ball bearings or something.

If you have an illusionist on your team, you can make your team look like the FB's allies. If the FB can't perceive any foes, they have to attack the nearest creature until their frenzy runs out, so just make sure that your team isn't the nearest creature.

Alternatively, just run the hell away. Throw everything you can at the FB to slow him down and just stay the hell out of melee range until his frenzy runs out. As always, magic does this best, but use whatever you've got.

But yeah. You can't beat a FB by attacking them, at least not until they run out of angry. So don't even try. Change the terms of the fight and then beat the hell out of him once he calms down a bit.

[theboss]

I now googled up "Reach" and understood that how the DM played the giant is wrong.
Firstly, he didnt allowed me to use tumble when i charged him (i had better intiative score).
Secondly, when he attacked me on his AoO and then i attacked him, the round after he didnt stepped back his 5 ft (Since he cant attack a player whom have shorted reach than him) so when he should've stepped his 5 ft back i could AoO him (which i didnt cause i didnt knew that)...
But the real question is : If u step back your 5 ft from a threatened square, does the other foe should get an AoO?

[AvatarVecna]

I now googled up "Reach" and understood that how the DM played the giant is wrong.
Firstly, he didnt allowed me to use tumble when i charged him (i had better intiative score).
Secondly, when he attacked me on his AoO and then i attacked him, the round after he didnt stepped back his 5 ft (Since he cant attack a player whom have shorted reach than him) so when he should've stepped his 5 ft back i could AoO him (which i didnt cause i didnt knew that)...
But the real question is : If u step back your 5 ft from a threatened square, does the other foe should get an AoO?

1) Tumbling is done as part of a move action if you feel it's useful; charging is not a move action, it is a full round action that includes movement, so I'm not sure tumbling as part of a charge is legal...and regardless of whether it's legal or not, it doesn't feel like it should be.

2) Reach from weapon quality doesn't normally let you attack adjacent squares, no...but the giant's reach is from his size, and that kind of reach does allow him to target squares next to him.

3) A 5 ft step explicitly does not provoke AoOs.

4) Given that your character is Large and is using reach rules, I'm not sure why you didn't already know all this.

[Demidos]

First off --

Unless the giant is wielding a reach weapon specifically (e.g. he's using a longspear, rather than just a club with his natural long reach), theres no "getting inside his range", since he will be able to attack foes that are adjacent.

Secondly, 5 ft steps NEVER trigger attacks of opportunity of any kind for you OR him (except in the VERY particular case of a specific Tome of Battle Sourcebook manuveur).

Lastly, on different combat styles --
Using marbles as suggested below is a solid strategy, and is supported in a sourcebook (10 gp, effectively 5 by 5 ft nonmagical grease, Dungeonscape I believe). Alternately, get the specific armor that allows you to demoralize as a move action, get the frightful presence feat, never outnumbered, and use your fear effects when melee doesnt work.

[Larsen]

If you had initiative and it was the first round of the fight, the giant should not have been allowed an AoO at all.

5ft steps don't provoke AoO. But if his reach was due to his size, he didn't need to make one anyway. Only reach from weapon prevent attacking from closer range.

But none of that matters since you can't win by damage as long as he is in frenzy.

[Flickerdart]

I now googled up "Reach" and understood that how the DM played the giant is wrong.
Firstly, he didnt allowed me to use tumble when i charged him (i had better intiative score).
You don't need to tumble if you won initiative, since the giant is flat-footed and can't AoO.


Secondly, when he attacked me on his AoO and then i attacked him, the round after he didnt stepped back his 5 ft (Since he cant attack a player whom have shorted reach than him) so when he should've stepped his 5 ft back i could AoO him (which i didnt cause i didnt knew that)...
But the real question is : If u step back your 5 ft from a threatened square, does the other foe should get an AoO?
No. Five-foot steps don't provoke.

[SwordChucks]

The giant might have combat reflexes, allowing it to make AoOs while flat-footed.

[AvatarVecna]

Assuming, of course, that the charge and AoO happened in round one (although if it didn't, I don't know why the OP brought up initiative at all).

[Troacctid]

Combat Reflexes is a standard feat for a storm giant, so catching it flat-footed or baiting an AoO with a minion probably won't help. Also, if you get within its reach, it can use Awesome Blow to knock you back out and force you to provoke again, so 5-foot steps don't solve the problem either.

There are two solutions that I recommend, and you can use either or both. The first is to use a reach weapon of your own. That way, since you're Large, you can attack from 20 feet away, so you don't have to leave the creature's threatened area unless it has a longer reach than you (and most creatures don't). The second is to Tumble past its reach. This scenario is one of the main reasons why Tumble is such an important skill for melee fighters. Of course, if you're not a Dwarf, you have to be lightly armored to use it, so it won't be an option for everyone.

[Segev]

Well, if this is the Champion PC from the Unbalanced Teams thread, I would recommend that you try to get your party with you against things like this. It's 4 CR higher than you, which means that it actually should be a nasty challenge for your whole party.

As for actually dealing with reach, the two best solutions tend to be ranged attacks (combined with kiting, if you can) and having a reach weapon of your own. You'll lose your two-weapon fighting if you have a two-handed weapon, but that can be part of the trade-off in dealing with monsters with particular advantages. I'd go for a polearm with reach, in your case, as I believe you're proficient with all martial weapons. Even just a masterwork one, while it'll hit your damage, will let you fight back.

Also, though, if (again) this is the party I think it is, you really want your Knight with you. She can draw the thing's agro while you attack it, either from range or with a reach weapon (or just step in to fight it in melee, suffering the one AoO).

[theboss]

There are two solutions that I recommend, and you can use either or both. The first is to use a reach weapon of your own. That way, since you're Large, you can attack from 20 feet away, so you don't have to leave the creature's threatened area unless it has a longer reach than you (and most creatures don't). The second is to Tumble past its reach. This scenario is one of the main reasons why Tumble is such an important skill for melee fighters. Of course, if you're not a Dwarf, you have to be lightly armored to use it, so it won't be an option for everyone.

I might get a long spear with both hands with the oversized two weapon fightning, but since Im using light armor and i have alot of dex (since im more dex fighter build than str), i geuss Tumble is my solution to this but the DM didnt even pay attention to my says "what about tumble" ? : "Nope, u cant escape his reach"...



Lastly, on different combat styles --
Using marbles as suggested below is a solid strategy, and is supported in a sourcebook (10 gp, effectively 5 by 5 ft nonmagical grease, Dungeonscape I believe). Alternately, get the specific armor that allows you to demoralize as a move action, get the frightful presence feat, never outnumbered, and use your fear effects when melee doesnt work.

Alright, i'll now have them always ready-to-use..
And can u explain further about what armor do you mean? What is demoralize?
Not enough feats to take it... and even if i tooki it, it wont help me against frenzied berserkers...

[Segev]

Demoralize is something you can do with the Intimidate skill, but it won't help against a frenzied berserker. Talk to the DM outside of the game, and point out the tumble rules. Sometimes, DMs get blindsided during a fight and don't want to cede ground lest it trivialize something. IF he knows of it, though, he can plan for it in the future and be ready to let you use your skills as designed.

A longspear or other reach polearm would go a long way for you. But if you can reliably tumble to avoid AoOs, they may be unnecessary.

[Troacctid]

Also, though, if (again) this is the party I think it is, you really want your Knight with you. She can draw the thing's agro while you attack it, either from range or with a reach weapon (or just step in to fight it in melee, suffering the one AoO).

See, this is what I was talking about in that other thread. Knights don't work that way. They can only draw aggro if nobody else attacks it. If your Knight is using Test of Mettle on it, she'd better be ready to solo it, or the effect will just be canceled.

[theboss]

Well, if this is the Champion PC from the Unbalanced Teams thread, I would recommend that you try to get your party with you against things like this. It's 4 CR higher than you, which means that it actually should be a nasty challenge for your whole party.


The one and only.
The problem is i was alone, its kinda long story how i got to this fight but i was braggarted, and reckless and thought i could beat anyone on melee, then he gave me this...
the reason why i was alone is everyone tried to role-play their character and paying no attention to what other players do (expect the knight because she the wants the blackguard to role or something like that)...
I beileve its my fault mainly that i got to this fight, but the DM could be a little fair with me and not give me this kinda foe cause i really didnt have a single chance against him...



As for actually dealing with reach, the two best solutions tend to be ranged attacks (combined with kiting, if you can) and having a reach weapon of your own. You'll lose your two-weapon fighting if you have a two-handed weapon, but that can be part of the trade-off in dealing with monsters with particular advantages. I'd go for a polearm with reach, in your case, as I believe you're proficient with all martial weapons. Even just a masterwork one, while it'll hit your damage, will let you fight back.


Nope, not trading away my TwF style... i geuss my solution is Tumble and using Marbles against frenzied berserker and some other stupid melee fighters...



Also, though, if (again) this is the party I think it is, you really want your Knight with you. She can draw the thing's agro while you attack it, either from range or with a reach weapon (or just step in to fight it in melee, suffering the one AoO).


As i said, i was alone.. u know why...

[Segev]

The one and only.
The problem is i was alone, its kinda long story how i got to this fight but i was braggarted, and reckless and thought i could beat anyone on melee, then he gave me this...
the reason why i was alone is everyone tried to role-play their character and paying no attention to what other players do (expect the knight because she the wants the blackguard to role or something like that)...
I beileve its my fault mainly that i got to this fight, but the DM could be a little fair with me and not give me this kinda foe cause i really didnt have a single chance against him...Eh, I'm not going to comment on the OOC aspects of this; that's between you and your friends. IC, I would recommend that this humble your PC a little bit, and have him realize that some foes are too tough for him to handle on his own, so he can exercise some discretion (the better part of valor!) and go get help.

If the DM is forcing you into it and trapping you there, that's another OOC issue.


Nope, not trading away my TwF style... i geuss my solution is Tumble and using Marbles against frenzied berserker and some other stupid melee fighters...I wasn't suggesting you "trade it away" in any permanent sense. I was suggesting you carry a backup polearm. When using it, you can't TWF, but that doesn't mean you lost your ability to TWF. Just that, when reach is needed, you have to two-hand, instead.

Although... if you can afford the exotic weapon proficiency, dual-wielding whips would let you trip at even greater than normal reach. I think. Unless their rules get weird for larger-than-medium creatures.




And yeah, I get I had the Knight's power wrong; I typed that before reading the correction in the other thread. My apologies. Still, the Knight could use stunning and positioning to try to pin it down. Or just try to absorb the damage until the Frenzy wears off. ...DOES Frenzy wear off when there's still an enemy?

[theboss]

Eh, I'm not going to comment on the OOC aspects of this; that's between you and your friends. IC, I would recommend that this humble your PC a little bit, and have him realize that some foes are too tough for him to handle on his own, so he can exercise some discretion (the better part of valor!) and go get help.

If the DM is forcing you into it and trapping you there, that's another OOC issue.

You're 100% right, i need to humble my PC alot down.
About my DM forcing me to that im not quite sure, let me describle how i got to this fight, it may be a little long and my english might be bad too. so read carefully..

All of us started in a town named "A" (just giving them letters cause its easier to remeber). The blackguard which suppose to role over Town B sent his army to invade Town A. While he did it, i was on a mission to take out a senior in oragniztion named X, when i finished the mission successfully i was badly wounded from an encounter with a level 15 (or more) vamipre rogue... So i was resting in a tavern named C, while the army invaded i was in the tavern healing and my team yelled at me to go help in the war.. so i went again outside still wounded and managed to kill 3 Senior commanders In their army and came back to Tavern C.
The invadors failed to conquar Town A and then Another army with a few powerful giants came and utilized the position Town A is in and they managed to conquar it.. The day forward, 4 Simple soldiers knocked on the tavern door and asked me "Do i accet the panthion of some gods"(cant remember who).. i said they are interupting me and they threaned to kill me if i wont answer, so i killed them and some giant caugt me and brought me to "justice" and ruled that i shall be in jail for the next 15 years (for the record, the decision took about 10 seconds IRL because the DM didnt even let me defend myself or even presented my accusations...) so i asked for trial by combat, and i asked sarcasmly :"I want the storm-giant to fight me" (i didnt knew what is CR was or he was frenzied berserker.. my geuss was CR 15 fighter and maybe some barbrain levels but no more than that).. and before we started the giant asked me if im sure i want this i replied "If there is someone weaker than u i prefer him") cause the DM had a fishi look upon me... and he suggested someone the giant claims stronger than him..
Thats it... hope u understand...




I wasn't suggesting you "trade it away" in any permanent sense. I was suggesting you carry a backup polearm. When using it, you can't TWF, but that doesn't mean you lost your ability to TWF. Just that, when reach is needed, you have to two-hand, instead.

Although... if you can afford the exotic weapon proficiency, dual-wielding whips would let you trip at even greater than normal reach. I think. Unless their rules get weird for larger-than-medium creatures.


Not enough feats for it, but ty anyway...

[Segev]

Yeah, sounds like it was a tough situation and you just plain lost. I assume you're in jail now? Presumably, the party will help break you out.

[theboss]

Yeah, sounds like it was a tough situation and you just plain lost. I assume you're in jail now? Presumably, the party will help break you out.

Im not im Jail now, I died... ( i didnt lose level tho cause it wasnt a fair fight and he did it just to show me im not able to kill any melee fighters, althought technically, the storm-giant used some electric spells...)

Edit: I died cause he did 80 damage in 1 hit... and i have only 140~ HP, and thats even without Power Attack because i have the elusive target feat...) and no, i really dont know how he did that much..

[AvatarVecna]

Im not im Jail now, I died... ( i didnt lose level tho cause it wasnt a fair fight and he did it just to show me im not able to kill any melee fighters, althought technically, the storm-giant used some electric spells...)

Edit: I died cause he did 80 damage in 1 hit... and i have only 140~ HP, and thats even without Power Attack because i have the elusive target feat...) and no, i really dont know how he did that much..

I think he either didn't know you had Elusive Target or knew and made sure it didn't come up; a PAing Storm Giant Frenzied Berserker with the Shock Trooper feat should have a pretty ridiculous Str and high BAB, making their own charge pretty powerful. Assuming you remembered to actually declare your dodge target, the only way I can think of to get around Elusive Target (that doesn't require an ability to ignore/remove an opponent's feats) is a RAI interpretation I've seen used before where you lose the Elusive Target PA protection if you lose the dodge bonus from Dodge (such as from being Flat-footed).

It's also possible that the sheer scale of the Str involved here is playing a huge part, and possibly a crit. Assuming only Storm Giant, Barbarian rage, and FB frenzy are adding Str together, that gives our giant a Str of 49 with a mod of +19; since he's two-handing that big sword, his normal damage for hitting is 4d6+28, which becomes 8d6+56 on a crit. Assuming he got a crit, he's got about a 76% chance of dealing at least 80 damage...and all without Power Attack getting involved.

And it can get even worse: put the ability bump from gaining 5 HD into Str, add on the Reckless Rage feat, a Belt of Giant Str +6, and a +5 Greataxe, and his hit/crit damage is 4d6+36/12d6+108 without Power Attack even coming into the equation.

[Segev]

Im not im Jail now, I died... ( i didnt lose level tho cause it wasnt a fair fight and he did it just to show me im not able to kill any melee fighters, althought technically, the storm-giant used some electric spells...)

Edit: I died cause he did 80 damage in 1 hit... and i have only 140~ HP, and thats even without Power Attack because i have the elusive target feat...) and no, i really dont know how he did that much..

Are you being raised/resurrected, or building a new PC?

[Jay R]

Don't forget one of the basics of combat - ranged weapons.

A longbow has reach on any melee attack - even a giant's.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Marbles will save you for a round. The FB spends a full round action to drag itself off of the marbles then stands up and rips you a new one.

There's nothing you could've done. You just got hit with "a storm giant falls, you die." It was too strong to have any real chance of tripping, it can't be grappled, it had more HP than you could possibly chew through before it just straight murdered you, it had a higher speed than you, and you were just screwed.

Maybe, just maybe, you could've fled and strewn debris in its way in a desperate bid at escape. Overturned tables, crowds of people, areas where he's sqeezing and you're not because of the size difference, breaking line of sight and hiding (lose the ring for a moment); these things -might- have saved you. In a stand-up fight, you never had a chance.

[theboss]

Are you being raised/resurrected, or building a new PC?

No, i talked with the DM and he agreed it was an unfair fight and he did it because i was braggart, and i thought i could win any melee against me, and he proved me wrong... im playing the same PC...


Marbles will save you for a round. The FB spends a full round action to drag itself off of the marbles then stands up and rips you a new one.


Ya, kinda useful. espcially against BF since they cant use skills while frenzy...



There's nothing you could've done. You just got hit with "a storm giant falls, you die." It was too strong to have any real chance of tripping, it can't be grappled, it had more HP than you could possibly chew through before it just straight murdered you, it had a higher speed than you, and you were just screwed.

I couldnt agree more... you're perfectly right, further its exactly what im trying to say here:I would've lost any way...



Maybe, just maybe, you could've fled and strewn debris in its way in a desperate bid at escape. Overturned tables, crowds of people, areas where he's sqeezing and you're not because of the size difference, breaking line of sight and hiding (lose the ring for a moment); these things -might- have saved you. In a stand-up fight, you never had a chance.

The issue is i couldnt blend in cause we fought in an arena with giant guards...

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'd need to see your full set of abilities and gear to be sure, but it looks like you were doomed from go.

I think you may have an OOC issue here. A good DM doesn't put you in an unwinnable, inescapble fight and just murder you like that unless he's too much of a coward to just demand you retire the character voluntarily.

This is -not- how you handle a player or character you have a problem with. You talk it out.

[theboss]

I think he either didn't know you had Elusive Target or knew and made sure it didn't come up; a PAing Storm Giant Frenzied Berserker with the Shock Trooper feat should have a pretty ridiculous Str and high BAB, making their own charge pretty powerful. Assuming you remembered to actually declare your dodge target, the only way I can think of to get around Elusive Target (that doesn't require an ability to ignore/remove an opponent's feats) is a RAI interpretation I've seen used before where you lose the Elusive Target PA protection if you lose the dodge bonus from Dodge (such as from being Flat-footed).

It's also possible that the sheer scale of the Str involved here is playing a huge part, and possibly a crit. Assuming only Storm Giant, Barbarian rage, and FB frenzy are adding Str together, that gives our giant a Str of 49 with a mod of +19; since he's two-handing that big sword, his normal damage for hitting is 4d6+28, which becomes 8d6+56 on a crit. Assuming he got a crit, he's got about a 76% chance of dealing at least 80 damage...and all without Power Attack getting involved.

And it can get even worse: put the ability bump from gaining 5 HD into Str, add on the Reckless Rage feat, a Belt of Giant Str +6, and a +5 Greataxe, and his hit/crit damage is 4d6+36/12d6+108 without Power Attack even coming into the equation.

80 damage on a non-critical strike and without power attack feat.. and no, he didnt forgot the elusive target feat and he told me that power attack didnt came to the math... althought the giant dont know i had elusive target on him and still would've lost his Attack Bonus (power attack u lose 10 point on attack to get 20 points of damage so he still was supposed to lost attack bonus on me