Bow and Sword, in Accord

[Bobby Baratheon]

Is there a not-totally-cheesy way to make a reasonably effective archer/melee character in D&D? I know archers (and martials in general) suck compared to casters, but that's not really the goal here. I want to stat up my favorite Mount and Blade character, but I'm not really seeing a way to do it without him sucking hardcore or sacrificing one area of his abilities. He's a heavily armored type that uses a twohanded sword for melee (easy enough to do) and is practically a longbow sniper. Neither of these are hard to do on their own, but I'm struggling to think of a way outside of cleric archer that could effectively do both things.

[AvatarVecna]

Is there a not-totally-cheesy way to make a reasonably effective archer/melee character in D&D? I know archers (and martials in general) suck compared to casters, but that's not really the goal here. I want to stat up my favorite Mount and Blade character, but I'm not really seeing a way to do it without him sucking hardcore or sacrificing one area of his abilities. He's a heavily armored type that uses a twohanded sword for melee (easy enough to do) and is practically a longbow sniper. Neither of these are hard to do on their own, but I'm struggling to think of a way outside of cleric archer that could effectively do both things.

Barbarian 1 (Spirit Lion Totem)/Scout 3/Ranger X. Keep Str/Dex high, Con/Wis positive, and dump Int/Cha. Take the Swift Hunter feat, the Improved Skirmish feat, and the Greater Manyshot feat (which requires a few other feats). This gives you ways to get full attacks with melee or ranged weapons that also get your full skirmish (and let you ignore certain favored enemies immunity to precision damage). It would be better if you focused on melee or ranged rather than switch-hitting (since you need a lot of feats to effectively switch-hit), but it's something.

EDIT: Needless to say, switch-hitting while also being an effective mounted combatant requires even more feats; at this point, the number of feats you need to remain effective across the board would require gestalting the above build with straight Fighter (or several dips in classes granting relevant bonus feats, such as Fighter, Martial Rogue, Generic Warrior, Generic Expert, and so on).

[Bobby Baratheon]

Thanks! I hadn't thought of Scouts for some reason. Yeah, it's not an ideal strategy by any means but this is less to make an actually effective character and more to make the most effective reflection of my Mount and Blade character that I can.

Isn't there a regional Faerun feat that gives pounce? Inserting some warblade into the build (instead of barbarian) might make it a little more powerful.

EDIT: The mounted part is optional. I actually prefer fighting on foot in M&B anyway, so I have little to no hesitation to punt on that ability.

EDIT2: The 3.0 version of the hospitaler class might be useful - it grants relevant bonus feats for melee, ranged and mounted and due to a rather stupidly worded clause effectively gives you cleric levels along with some paladin abilities. Flavorwise, it'd be about right, too; I RP Conrad Corley (the character) as the head of a knightly order.

[Troacctid]

My first thought is Ranger. Full BAB, proficient with bows and swords, and you get Rapid Shot for free. (It's also just generally one of the best martial classes, because it can actually do stuff outside of combat.) For stats, STR > DEX > CON > WIS > INT > CHA.

Paladin could also work. With Serenity and Zen Archery, you can focus on STR and WIS, and wear heavy armor without worrying about DEX. The Elf Paladin substitution level lets you smite on ranged attacks, if that's something you're worried about.

Whirling Frenzy Barbarian is kind of nice, because you can make the extra attacks with ranged weapons as well as melee. It is awkward that the Strength rating of your longbow won't increase to go with your boosted STR score, but still, an extra attack is nothing to sneeze at.

Normally I'd recommend something with precision damage, like Scout or Rogue, but the fact that precision damage only applies within 30 feet is kind of a problem, because you probably aren't pulling out your bow when the enemy is that close--you'd just charge them and deal more damage. If you wanted to go the precision damage route, Assassin or Spellthief would be your best bet, because they get Sniper's Shot to make sneak attacks at long range.

[AvatarVecna]

Thanks! I hadn't thought of Scouts for some reason. Yeah, it's not an ideal strategy by any means but this is less to make an actually effective character and more to make the most effective reflection of my Mount and Blade character that I can.

Isn't there a regional Faerun feat that gives pounce? Inserting some warblade into the build (instead of barbarian) might make it a little more powerful.

EDIT: The mounted part is optional. I actually prefer fighting on foot in M&B anyway, so I have little to no hesitation to punt on that ability.

EDIT2: The 3.0 version of the hospitaler class might be useful - it grants relevant bonus feats for melee, ranged and mounted and due to a rather stupidly worded clause effectively gives you cleric levels along with some paladin abilities. Flavorwise, it'd be about right, too; I RP Conrad Corley (the character) as the head of a knightly order.

I'm not sure if there's such a feat, but even if there is, and you're not going mounted, you're still going to be pretty feat-starved from trying to switch-hit. Normal Swift Hunter build is just Scout/Ranger, and is fairly capable/skilled/powerful; I threw Barbarian on there to get that really cheap pounce ability, but if you can find a method of gaining pounce that doesn't take away a precious feat, or gives more power than a single level dip into Barbie, I say go for it.

[Bobby Baratheon]

Feral template comes to mind, but that doesn't really fit the character concept (at all), so I'll probably just go with that. The feat is from Shining South and it's called Lion Tribe or somesuch, but feats are pretty precious so it might be more advantageous to go with barbarian. Swift hunter might be the best chassis to work with here.

[Troacctid]

We don't talk about certain sites that shall not be named. Piracy and copyright infringement are uncool. The feat in question is from Shining South.

It may interest you that there is a Barbarian variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#barbarian) that gets favored enemy and the archery combat style. You could go Scout/Barbarian, and ask your DM if Swift Hunter could apply to Barbarian instead of Ranger (which would be pretty reasonable). You wouldn't get rage, but you could still get pounce.

[Bobby Baratheon]

Whoops - my bad. I'll remove that from the post. Also, I was unaware of that barbarian variant; that has some interesting options. Snipe people from afar, bash heads up close. Losing rage would kind of hurt though.

EDIT: a downside to the variant barbarian is that the archery style mastery only applies while the user is in light armor. Still, it's hardly unfair to ask the DM if I can trade rage (and the later class features advancing it) straight up for the three archery feats (staggered appropriately). That, in my opinion, is a pretty fair trade. Or it could just be extended to include medium armor.

[Bobby Baratheon]

Sort of unrelated, but a charisma based build using Charming the Arrow and all the other "charisma to x" feats to make a decent charisma based archer/melee combatant. Does anyone have a handy link to someone who's already done this, or general advice? Gauntlets of heartfelt blows would be a must for the melee part, as would Charming the Arrow for ranged. Unseelie fey would probably be necessary as well.

[MisterKaws]

Mandatory ranged Warblade link. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=10296220&postcount=420)

[Troacctid]

If you're interested in Charming the Arrow, then Paladin is the way to go. It makes better use of Charisma than basically any other martial class.

[Bobby Baratheon]

Fighter/Paladin would make a good combo by alleviating some of the feat strap while making good use of a high charisma. Man, I just love charisma. With the right selections, you can get Charisma to just about anything.

EDIT: I'm seeing real potential here with a paladin/fighter build maximizing strength and dexterity. Standard power attack shenanigans for melee, plus charming the arrow for archery. With a bone bow and some decent weapon enchantments, that's not bad base damage at all. Fighter would be (at most) at four level dip; what would be a solid prestige class to add on the top of that? Knight of the Sacred Seal would seem to be a decent way to top it off.

[AvatarVecna]

Sort of unrelated, but a charisma based build using Charming the Arrow and all the other "charisma to x" feats to make a decent charisma based archer/melee combatant. Does anyone have a handy link to someone who's already done this, or general advice? Gauntlets of heartfelt blows would be a must for the melee part, as would Charming the Arrow for ranged. Unseelie fey would probably be necessary as well.

I recall trying to do something like that awhile back for a contest where we had to try and mimic the Battle Dancer class; it didn't turn out too well, IIRC. Kept running into problems, like how most methods of getting Cha to attack/damage are substitutions rather than straight-up additions:
Avenging Strike doesn't get enough uses per day to be really useful, which goes for all other Smite-based effects
Battle Dance is fantastic (Cha as a bonus to AC, attacks, and Ref saves), but it doesn't come online until 27th lvl, and requires that Dragon Magazine be allowed at least on a case-by-case basis
Bow of Songs gives Cha to attack/damage, but only with that particular bow, only for one particular attack, and it costs a use of Bardic Music to use
Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows gives a nice damage bonus equal to your Cha mod, but it's fire damage (the most commonly resisted element in the game), and is once again Dragon Magazine material, which tends to be heavily scrutinized at best or blanket-banned at worst
Iaijutsu Master requires a 5 level investment and as many skill ranks as you can pour into a skill that has little use out of direct combat...and even then you can only use that 9d6+(9*Cha mod) once per round, unless you bust out some serious shenanigans
Snowflake Wardance adds Cha to attack, but requires Bardic Music, is dependent on having lots of Perform (Dance) ranks, and only works with light/one-handed slashing melee weapons

The rest of the methods for getting Cha to attack/damage just replace your normal attack/damage stat, rather than actually adding directly to the total. Best way I'm finding to stack things is for a Dragonborn Bard X/Iaijutsu Master 5 to possess the Snowflake Wardance and Dragonfire Inspiration feats to be wearing Slippers of Battledancing and Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows (as well as various ways of maxing out Inspire Courage); you should be able to get to at least +3 from level alone. Activate Inspire Courage (turning it into Dragonfire Inspiration); activate Inspire Courage. Start a Snowflake Wardance, then make your Iaijutsu attack: you should be getting Cha mod+Cha mod+3 on top of your normal attack roll (minus the Str/Dex one of the Cha's is replacing) and base weapon damage+15d6+(10*Cha mod).

I'm not entirely sure that all works out; most of it should work, but I'm not sure how much you can stack different bardic musics together (one-man-band style).

[Bobby Baratheon]

Isn't there some sort of special bardic weapon that can perform a bardic music for you, leaving you free to do something else? I believe it's Harmonizing Blade or something like that. I don't know how useful that is for that particular idea, but it's worth looking into. My current part already has a dragonfire bard, so I'm not incredibly worried about damage (if I even end up using this build). I wonder if a dynamic priest cleric archer might be a better chasis than for a charisma archer than a paladin/fighter. Scratch that, it IS much better with all of its buffs and other tricks, but I'm not sure if that's the character I want.

[Cerefel]

The pouncing skirmisher is almost certainly your best option. The nice thing about it is that your charge damage is basically OMGWTFBBQ with the only investments that don't help ranged combat being the pounce and taking power attack, while you can spend all of your other feats on improving archery and skirmish damage to make your ranged attacks hurt.