Warlock/Sorc advice

[Xaktsaroth]

Planning on playing a primary(and possibly only) arcane caster for an upcoming campaign. For story reasons, I will definitely be some mixture of Warlock/Sorc. I quite torn on how many of each. Pact of the Tome, if I take enough warlock levels, but was wondering if anyone had any insight in having played the combo before, and/or what spell selections you went with.

Thanks for the help!

[PeteNutButter]

You'll most certainly want more sorcerer levels, as sorcery points are awesome, and you cannot get more points at any one time than your cap. Such is that a warlock 9/sorc 3 would only get 3 sorcery points out of his 5th level slots.

Probably 3-5 warlock at most, depends on what you want out of it. Just 2 levels is the obvious pick, since you get your EB invocations. Sorcery Point short rest cheese is strong. It's extra cheese if you avoid long rests altogether. (Cite Thomas Edison as an example of an adventurer who never took long rests. :smalltongue:)

As a DM I'd rule that you'd suffer from levels of exhaustion for each day you didn't long rest.

[Xaktsaroth]

You'll most certainly want more sorcerer levels, as sorcery points are awesome, and you cannot get more points at any one time than your cap. Such is that a warlock 9/sorc 3 would only get 3 sorcery points out of his 5th level slots.

Probably 3-5 warlock at most, depends on what you want out of it. Just 2 levels is the obvious pick, since you get your EB invocations. Sorcery Point short rest cheese is strong. It's extra cheese if you avoid long rests altogether. (Cite Thomas Edison as an example of an adventurer who never took long rests. :smalltongue:)

As a DM I'd rule that you'd suffer from levels of exhaustion for each day you didn't long rest.

Indeed. I think the big question is Warlock 2, Warlock 3 or Warlock 4. All have merits, I just don't know if Pact of the Tome is worth giving up multiple Sorc points.

[Corran]

What race and what sorcerer origin is your character going to be?

[AmbientRaven]

2 Warlock (for imprved elderitch blast), 18 Sorc

I would recomend the shadow sorc from the underdark UA or favoured soul if you are allowed it

[PeteNutButter]

Indeed. I think the big question is Warlock 2, Warlock 3 or Warlock 4. All have merits, I just don't know if Pact of the Tome is worth giving up multiple Sorc points.

I'd avoid the tome altogether. I realize the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation is great and all but no one seems to mention that you have to find additional spells (likely in scroll form). If the party has a wizard you can copy from that's great, but then it's not needed. So you can get a couple 1st level rituals that aren't worth being forever behind on your primary spells (sorcerer). Remember every sorcerer level gives you another spell known anyways.

Just as big is what invocation do you give up for that? Agonizing Blast is a must, and then you have Repelling Blast, the most effective way to push that enemy into that kill zone spell you are concentrating on since you have higher level sorcerer spells. Even if you don't concentrate on an area spell, the pure kiting potential is ridiculous.

[Xaktsaroth]

What race and what sorcerer origin is your character going to be?

Race will be custom, but it'll give me +2 Dex and +1 Cha.

Shadow Sorc from the Underdark UA, would be my origin.


I'd avoid the tome altogether. I realize the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation is great and all but no one seems to mention that you have to find additional spells (likely in scroll form). If the party has a wizard you can copy from that's great, but then it's not needed. So you can get a couple 1st level rituals that aren't worth being forever behind on your primary spells (sorcerer). Remember every sorcerer level gives you another spell known anyways.

Just as big is what invocation do you give up for that? Agonizing Blast is a must, and then you have Repelling Blast, the most effective way to push that enemy into that kill zone spell you are concentrating on since you have higher level sorcerer spells. Even if you don't concentrate on an area spell, the pure kiting potential is ridiculous.

Interestingly enough, my DM is cool enough that if he realizes I can copy spells into the tome, he'll litter them around. Now, what invocation I'd give up, THAT'S a question and a half.

[joaber]

Race will be custom, but it'll give me +2 Dex and +1 Cha.

Shadow Sorc from the Underdark UA, would be my origin.



Interestingly enough, my DM is cool enough that if he realizes I can copy spells into the tome, he'll litter them around. Now, what invocation I'd give up, THAT'S a question and a half.

So you already have magic darkvision, don't need devil's sight. Book of ancient secrets will not be that usefull at only lvl 1.

I would say the most obvious choice is agonizing and repealing blast.

As shadow sorcerer, I would go only to warlock 2. You don't really need any pact, will delay all your sorc progress and Shadow form is just amazing. In fact, shadow sorc is really overpowered.

[Ewhit]

I agree with Lvl prog. Don't know about shadow sorc but as wlk goes eblast with agon. And one more invocation After that do u want to waste time for a Lvl 3 pact id say no
Chain if your looking for special familiar for character style. Tome isn't needed and pact blade without higher Lvl sucks

[RickAllison]

The best use for Tomelocks is when a wizard (and, to a lesser extent, druid or cleric) is unavailable. You get plenty of cantrips through both warlock and sorcerer so the first benefit of Tome is moot, and the rituals are less important if someone can cast them already. The exception would be if you want to be a Sorclock gish and so use Shillelagh to use Charisma for to-hit and damage.

[Quintessence]

I would do warlock 3/sorcerer 17

The warlock would be a pact of the chain for the free advantage on damn near everything and a super useful familiar.

[Citan]

I would do warlock 3/sorcerer 17

The warlock would be a pact of the chain for the free advantage on damn near everything and a super useful familiar.
+1.

While I agree that Shadow Form is really great, it requires you to go to lvl 20. And all archetypes don't provide the same kind of greatness.

On the opposite end, a familiar that can provide either magic resistance or useful effect (such as Frighten, full senses and telephathy or "intuition" effect) that could be put to good use, and useful your whole career.

Although I wonder if by RAW you would be allowed to cast EB against a target which you can see within range either because you "share senses" (pseudogragon) or because of Voice of the Chain Master invocation.
(I don't see anything forbidding it, at least for Eldricht Blast which does not require specifically to see the target, and the only general rule is not that you can "see" the target but that you have a clear path to it. Meaning a dedicated Eldricht Blast build could very easily snipe away from 600 feet or even 1200 when required).

The "advantage" however doesn't seem so great, unless I missed something. I suppose it's referring to asking the familiar to Help, but it brings advantage only on the first attack roll so would be more useful for a class such as Rogue.

[joaber]

familiar isn't that usefull to shadow sorcerer. You can cast darkness for just 1 SP, so you can do this all day, and you can see in that. Advantage for you, desadvantage for the target.

At lvl 6 you have a hound that is better than warlock familiar. With EB, you'll only get advantage in one beam with familiar, with hound, the target get desadvantage in your spells.

you don't need extra cantrips from tome, you can stay in darkness and spam EB. BB, GFB, Shillelagh would be usefull if you get sentinel, to don't let enemy get out of darkness. BB is usefull since you can twin it, and in darkness, the enemy will want to trigger it to leave. But you can have this without Shillelagh with a decent dex, you'll attack with advantage, so don't need a 20.

And you definetely don't blade pact.

deeping into lvl 3 of warlock only delay your progression as sorcerer. You want high lvl spells, more SP, the hound, teleport and resistance to all damage ASAP.

[Xaktsaroth]

Popular opinion seems to be Warlock 2/Sorc 18, with Warlock 3/Sorc 17 coming in second.

Nice.

Anyone have have any spells suggestions? With my limited spells known, I need to make the ones I know count.

[MaxWilson]

Popular opinion seems to be Warlock 2/Sorc 18, with Warlock 3/Sorc 17 coming in second.

I'd suggest Fighter 1 (or Life Cleric 1 depending on stats), Warlock 2, Sorc 17. Sorc 18 is nothing to write home about, and the heavy armor + fighting style or extra spells known is better than the 18th level sorc feature.

[Citan]

familiar isn't that usefull to shadow sorcerer. You can cast darkness for just 1 SP, so you can do this all day, and you can see in that. Advantage for you, desadvantage for the target.

At lvl 6 you have a hound that is better than warlock familiar. With EB, you'll only get advantage in one beam with familiar, with hound, the target get desadvantage in your spells.

you don't need extra cantrips from tome, you can stay in darkness and spam EB. BB, GFB, Shillelagh would be usefull if you get sentinel, to don't let enemy get out of darkness. BB is usefull since you can twin it, and in darkness, the enemy will want to trigger it to leave. But you can have this without Shillelagh with a decent dex, you'll attack with advantage, so don't need a 20.

And you definetely don't blade pact.

deeping into lvl 3 of warlock only delay your progression as sorcerer. You want high lvl spells, more SP, the hound, teleport and resistance to all damage ASAP.
You're perfectly right, I didn't see that OP was probably going Shadow Origin. :)

I'd suggest Fighter 1 (or Life Cleric 1 depending on stats), Warlock 2, Sorc 17. Sorc 18 is nothing to write home about, and the heavy armor + fighting style or extra spells known is better than the 18th level sorc feature.
I'm sorry but that's on the wrong side of audacity to daresay such a thing.
Storm's 18 gives you permanent flying 60 feet or 30 flying for one hour on whole group. That's definitely NOT a light benefit.
Shadow Sorcerer is even "worse": one minute "all resistance except force" (like Barbarian) AND can move through enemies or objects.
Draconic Presence and Spell Bombardment depend on your luck but can be gamechangers...

Is it worth sticking with Sorcerer instead of taking a dip that will be useful all your career? Maybe yes, maybe no, depends on many things. I'd tend to second your suggestion if OP has no idea on how high a level he could attain and I tend to prefer immediate benefits when I don't know... ^^

But sweeping aside lvl 18 Sorcerer as "nothing to write home about"... Please, no. :)