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View Full Version : Can a cleric use a wand of magic missile without UMD because of Force domain in CD?



sutasafaia
2016-03-19, 04:36 AM
Is there any ruling on this? There is a cleric in our party that purchased a wand of magic missile and is insisting that it can be used since it is now part of the cleric spell list. I tried to explain that a cleric without the domain does not, in fact, have the spell in their spell list. He countered by saying that a sorcerer who chose not to take fireball doesn't have fireball on their spell list either. Of course, it's still in the sorcerer spell list, the sorcerer chose not to take it. So he said that it's the same for the cleric, it's on the cleric spell list, any cleric can choose the force domain and have it, so it's the same thing, they just chose not to use that domain.

He's not going to give in on this one without a rule one way or the other. Is there one? He will not accept any kind of house rule or gm decision from another group, he wants a rule. The gm in our game has decided he will wait to find out if there is an official rule before he makes any kind of house rule on it, since he's trying to be as fair as possible. Rule of fun says let him have his wand (it's magic missile after all), and since it was purchased a few sessions ago the ruling is that he can use the current wand (even if it turns out he shouldn't be able to), but my gm wants to avoid this coming up again later with higher level spells and would prefer an official rule if one exists.

Our gm will house rule if there is no real rule, but still prefers to have a real rule to keep things as fair for everybody as possible. Just in case it wasn't obvious, the cleric in the party does not have the force domain.

Long story short: Is there any official rule about if a cleric can use a wand for a spell that is only available to a cleric through a domain, if the cleric does not have the domain himself.

Muggins
2016-03-19, 04:46 AM
Choosing a domain adds its spells to your spell list. If you don't have the domain, they aren't added to your spell list. It's rather simple.

His comparison is closer to a sorcerer learning a druid spell just because a high-level sorcerer could, theoretically, learn that spell via a prestige class. Like Sandshaper.

sutasafaia
2016-03-19, 04:53 AM
Which is what common sense says, but he said since a cleric with the force domain is still a cleric, that makes magic missile part of the cleric spell list. Hence why I was really hoping there was an explicit rule for this somewhere. In my opinion he's trying to munchkin this one.

Khedrac
2016-03-19, 05:07 AM
He should look at the descriptors of the spell.

Domains have individual spell lists which are not the same as the cleric spell list, indeed some spells are only on a domain list.
They are listed against the "Level" category.

Grabbing a couple of examples:

MANTLE OF CHAOS
Level: Cleric 3, Limbo 3

MECHANUS MIND
Level: Mechanus 2, sorcerer/wizard 2

PLAGUE OF RATS
Level: Pestilence 5
As can be seen, the Domain entries are separate to the Cleric entries. The spells Mechanus Mind and Plague of Rats are not cleric spells, but they are domain spells (and in the case of Mechanus Mind, a sorcerer/wizard spell.
As such, nothing has added Magic Missile to the Cleric spell list, without the domain he cannot use use the wand without making a "use magic device" check.

There's no explicit rule because your player is wrong, the only need for an explicit rule would be if the player was correct.

EDIT: There's another reason why the player is wrong. The requirement to use a wand is not for the spell to be on the class's spell list, but on the character's spell list.
What's the difference? Well a specialist wizard with banned school evocation also cannot use the and of magic missile, even though it is on the wizard spell list.

Inevitability
2016-03-19, 07:37 AM
Magic Missile isn't on the cleric list, it's on the cleric-with-force-domain list. Those are two distinct lists.

Thurbane
2016-03-19, 07:42 AM
If he wants to use Wizard wands so badly, all he needed to do was choose the Magic Domain...

Malak'ai
2016-03-19, 09:09 AM
There is an offical ruling actually.

Deity, Domains, and Domain Spells

A cleric’s deity influences his alignment, what magic he can perform, his values, and how others see him. A cleric chooses two domains from among those belonging to his deity. A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if his alignment matches that domain.

If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies.

Each domain gives the cleric access to a domain spell at each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up, as well as a granted power. The cleric gets the granted powers of both the domains selected.

With access to two domain spells at a given spell level, a cleric prepares one or the other each day in his domain spell slot. If a domain spell is not on the cleric spell list, a cleric can prepare it only in his domain spell slot.

Bolded part mine.

The spells on the Cleric spell list are clearly marked in each book. Any other spell a Cleric can gain access to are Domain spells. The other player is wrong, and he has no leg to stand on.

Rule found here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm#deityDomainsandDomainSpells)