[PF] Carrion Crown paladin advice

[Frosty]

Hi, I'm about to make a paladin for the Carrion Crown AP, but I'm not sure about the build. Thinking of going mounted lancer, but not sure if the AP is unfriendly to that style of combat. I'm going to be medium sized with a large sized mount if I go this mount. 25 pt buy for this campaign and 2 traits allowed.

The others in the party will likely be a summoner, a spiritualist, a fighter, and a rogue.

[Florian]

Hi, I'm about to make a paladin for the Carrion Crown AP, but I'm not sure about the build. Thinking of going mounted lancer, but not sure if the AP is unfriendly to that style of combat. I'm going to be medium sized with a large sized mount if I go this mount. 25 pt buy for this campaign and 2 traits allowed.

The others in the party will likely be a summoner, a spiritualist, a fighter, and a rogue.

Too many dungeons and in-door encounters in this AP, drop the mounted lancer thought.
This AP uses the rules for Haunts, a good amount of undead and features a couple of scenes that need high Diplomacy rolls to build up points in "mini games".
You should think about going the "Combat Medic"/"Full Caster" mode on this, considering your party setup. That means highest possible CHA, as much Lay on Hands and Channeling as possible, if allowed, VMC Oracle thrown into the mix.

[stack]

I've only played the first book, so you wouldn't have a mount through that stretch anyway, but the first book is very much not mount friendly for a medium character. Smites wreck undead, so oath of vengeance is a good option as usual (doesn't kick in until 4). Not sure what you fight in the later books, I think werewolves are in there somewhere, but I suspect it's mostly evil so more smites can't hurt. Having a good diplomacy score definitely helps in the first book.

[Krazzman]

Played an Inquisitor for the first 2 Books and switched to Paladin at the end of Book 3.

Mounted anything larger than small get's smacked heavily.

Without spoiling anything: Focus on a Devastator Paladin if you are the "dedicated" melee (the case for us).
Everyone should have at least 1 Magic Item Creation feat. (For us, Cleric has Wands, I have Arms and Armor, the wizard has Rings and Scrolls and the Bard has gotten wondrous Items). At least in our case treasure is scarce.

The 3 skills you definitly want: Kn Rel, Diplomacy and Spellcraft(if crafter).

Good luck.

[Florian]

Smites wreck undead

This AP actually is not too heavy on the undead. Books 1, 5 and 6 have a heavy concentration of them, but nearly not as many to justify a heavy anti-undead build (Compare to Mummy´ sMask AP).

[Frosty]

Is devastation the two-hand weapon build? Btw due to backstory my character is 3/4 undead (not her own fault) and hurt by positive energy, so that may affect my build a bit. One of her goals is to find a way to become human again. But in the meantime she has to take her inability to heal herself with LoH into account.

Would it be worth it to have higher AC by going for a shield since healing is much more difficult? OTOH, she is immune to negative levels.

[Florian]

Is devastation the two-hand weapon build? Btw due to backstory my character is 3/4 undead (not her own fault) and hurt by positive energy, so that may affect my build a bit. One of her goals is to find a way to become human again. But in the meantime she has to take her inability to heal herself with LoH into account.

Would it be worth it to have higher AC by going for a shield since healing is much more difficult? OTOH, she is immune to negative levels.

So, basically a pretty regular Dhampir?

Then... just don´t. That´s the type of concept that looks good in theory and premisses a lot of RP, but falls flat hard in actual play because of rules interaction.

As for using a shield: Also... just don´t. Despite the classic knightly image, sword and board and Paladins don´t really mix well and you´ll cripple yourself for nothing. TWF-Fighters and Antipaladins perform good in this mode because they have massive damage potential, a Paladin doesn´t.

[stack]

Shields work when TWF with them. Takes feats and more dex than you may want. Smite also helps with the damage gap, though uses are too limited early on to really make a difference there.

[Florian]

Shields work when TWF with them. Takes feats and more dex than you may want. Smite also helps with the damage gap, though uses are too limited early on to really make a difference there.

Compared to a Fighter or Ranger? Not really. Simply not enough feats to get any mileage out of it.

[Krazzman]

So, basically a pretty regular Dhampir?

Then... just don´t. That´s the type of concept that looks good in theory and premisses a lot of RP, but falls flat hard in actual play because of rules interaction.

As for using a shield: Also... just don´t. Despite the classic knightly image, sword and board and Paladins don´t really mix well and you´ll cripple yourself for nothing. TWF-Fighters and Antipaladins perform good in this mode because they have massive damage potential, a Paladin doesn´t.

This. Not being able to use lay on hands cripples paladins into near uselessness.

My aasimar paladin would've been dead pretty much in the second fight he was in if you could not use lay on hands and mercies.

Many concepts are just not viable for this campaign or in pathfinder in general if you don't use the right chassis for it.

[Frosty]

On the other hand, I get +4 on all saves vs everything that undead are immune to, and I'm also immune to negative levels.

Assume that Im set on this for RP reasons. How would I best compensate?

[Florian]

On the other hand, I get +4 on all saves vs everything that undead are immune to, and I'm also immune to negative levels.

Assume that Im set on this for RP reasons. How would I best compensate?

By not going Paladin. If you can, try to aim at Warpriest VMC Cleric of a Neutral deity, Pharasma is extremely fitting for this campaign. You want the Warpriest to channel negative and deal damage using Fervor (Your self-heal and overall attack option) and the VMC Cleric side to channel positive, so you can disable Haunts, heal your team mates and AE nuke undead. You can go for the Death and Repose domains/blessing that´ll be overall useful in this AP.

[Frosty]

Out of curiosity, is the Oath of Charity archetype ever worth it for a paladin? Even for one who is hurt by positive energy?

Florian, I'll need to take a look at war priest. I've never made one but I've been told they are underpowered

[Florian]

Florian, I'll need to take a look at war priest. I've never made one but I've been told they are underpowered

That´s a good one. The Warpriest class showcases the deficiency of Tier ranking a bit, especially the disparity between versatility and efficiency. If there was a tier ranking based on efficiency, this class would be the default T1 every other class has to be compared with.

Pro:
- Extreme economy of actions: Cast, Fight, Buff, Debuff with the same action, no switching.
- "Overcharging Equipment": You can upgrade your armament to be effective +15.
- Scaling weapon damage: Take any weapon you like, its damage will scale up to 2d8.
- Integrated Lay on Hands/Touch of Corruption: Paladin/Antipaladin goodness included.
- Fast summoning at lvl 10: Alignment Blessings can be quickened to summon monsters.
- Bonus feats: Basically good, but especially so if VMC is in play.

Con:
- Basic Cleric Spells: No domain spells, no spell level discount, no adapted spell list.
- Ressource Hog: You really can go nova, but you burn resources hard if over-eager.
- Slightly delayed access to abilities compared to pure Cleric.

What doesn´t matter:
- 3/4 BAB: You actually won´t notice that at all.
- 6th lvl casting: We´re talking about an AP here, that´ll end around lvl 15 or 16. The difference to a full caster will be two spell levels at most (WP end with 5th or 6th, CL/Wiz 7th or 8th)

Edit: I won´t spoiler you, but there´s a reason I mention Pharasma and Overcharging Weapons for this AP.

[Frosty]

I'm not sure I can be an undead who worships Pharasma...wouldn't whe just command me to destroy myself?

[Florian]

I'm not sure I can be an undead who worships Pharasma...wouldn't whe just command me to destroy myself?

You wrote that you wanted to play a 1/2 or 3/4 undead like a Dhampir and want to revert back to being Human, right? That is very fitting with the theme of Pharasma, especially Fate and the natural order of things. Who else would you worship if your plan was to get things back on track as they ought to be?

Actually, have you thought about using the Dhampir race for this? It´s actually pretty good.

[Frosty]

What's so good a it put the Dhampir?

[Florian]

What's so good a it put the Dhampir?

It´s a very solid race design that has, similar to Tieflings, some sub-race choices, a lot of Alternate Race Traits and some race-specific Traits going. You´ll find a lot of inspiration in both, Blood of the Night and Advanced Race Guide that you can build upon and the associated regions of Golarion (ex: Jalmaray, Tian Xia, Ustalav) give a lot of Lore to work with.