5e Paladin Needs Level 4 Advice

[LF219]

We're a small group playing Horde of the Dragon Queen and lucky me, I've hit level four and have that tough choice we all face.
I'm a Vengeance Paladin with great stats (I got flookin' lucky while our DM was watching me roll.)

Situation is this: I hit hard, but I can't tank too well. Three times now I've made death throws, scarily enough. Against Kobalds! KOBALDS!!
I'm wearing Scale, which grants dis on Stealth (stupid!) but I did save enough to buy Plate now.
Which feats should I take, or just jump for the STR bonus?
The +2 STR bonus will put my accuracy to +7, which is good, but it is +6 currently, which I think is already enough.
I average 9-13 dmg per hit, and I'm pretty happy I do this much damage right now.
I like being the guy that deals a crap-ton of damage to soften things up, or cleans house with my GWF feat.

I was eyeballing Lucky, for the reroll bonus, but the party's Rogue/meatshield/dropout player already has it. But it IS fantastic, long-term.
Heavy Armour Master reduces damage by 3.
Alert has a handy +5 init bonus.
Charger's bonus attack could be useful, as well as Sentinel.
Durable and Tough give extra HP.

Let me know if I missed any YOU think can be useful.

---STATS---

Zanhelm Hyle
Male Human, Variant, Neutral
6'4, 210lbs
Basically imagine Major Armstrong with a side of Cloud Strife, but hold the angst, with some Angeal to go.

Str 18 (+4)
Dex 14 (+2)
Con 15 (+2)
Int 12 (+1)
Wis 15 (+2)
Cha 18 (+4)

AC 16 (scale mail)
Wielding a Greatsword, 2d6+4 dmg per round
30 Speed
2 Initiative
37 Hp [As of this moment, from level-up.]

Bonus Feat: Great Weapon Master [When I crit/kill an enemy, bonus attack on one other enemy. AND can choose -5 accuracy for +10 atk.]
Took the Oath of Vengeance [Didn't want to be a goody-two-shoes.]
Paladin's Fighting Style: Great Weapon Fighting

I have a magic amber that gives me 1d4 to any roll/per long rest.

---END STATS---



tl:dr... I want anyone's suggestion on the best ways make my guy tankier/avoid death better, or which are the most ideal feats to take, either now or in future.
And any advice is great; next session is Saturday.



Bonus info: Other party members are a Tiefling Warlock (who is currently trying to seduce me) and she gets +5 temp HP when she kills an enemy, and the Gnome Ranger who clings to big, strong me for 'protection' and has an eagle companion right now. Human Variant Rogue was a dropout, so she's basically a battle distraction/lockpicker. We're all currently playing her, with the DM's blessing, and have decided she's tri-polar, has sticky fingers, and dice rolls decide yes/no actions. Basically female Deadpool. Knives? Check. Leathers? Check. Hears voices in her head and/or may be slightly psychotic? Check.

Bonus story: One night when we were approaching the horde two cultists walked by our camp. The Warlock woke me, and I jumped out of the bushes and down the cliff, surprise round, nearly-max damage on the first cultist, killing him, and crit-killed the second before returning and going back to sleep... I guess I really don't like my beauty rest disturbed, lol. XD

[I]Sorry if typos, it's midnight here and I have work in the morning.

[Kane0]

Many people advocate that a good defense is a good offense, so great weapon master would be fantastic in that respect.
Otherwise something like lucky or tough/durable would be your best bet. Heavy armor mastery is good at low levels but isnt great past that. With the foes youll be facing in the books it may be worth it though

[Fable Wright]

Right now, your group does not have a healer. This puts a bit of a damper on your situation.

That out of the way... as I see it right now, you have three great options.

The first is Resiliant (Con). This will give you 4 bonus hit points, proficiency in Con saves (which will be excellent in keeping Bless or Hunter's Mark up), and is a choice you will never regret. Take this one if the other choices don't appeal to you.

The second is Inspiring Leader. This, essentially, will allow you to grant every party member a pool of 8 temporary hit points each rest. It's like Toughness, but everyone gets it, and you get bonus 'healing' each rest. Downside is, doesn't scale that well after a while. If retraining it later on is on the table, and survival (especially at low levels) is the most important thing to you? Take this. Straight up. If you're stuck with it? Still might be worthwhile, if you're likely to never see a full caster that knows Cure Wounds.

The third is +2 Strength. From the character optimization perspective, this will let you drop opponents faster, meaning you take less damage. And more importantly, you're getting +1 proficiency next level. When your bonus is at +8, you can -5/+10, with two attacks, at a +3 to hit on each, with Advantage if you burned Vow of Emnity. That's some serious damage, and with a relatively low bonus, the +1 is a huge marginal return. Also of note, boosting your average damage to 24 means getting that bonus attack from GWF far more often. This is a choice that you will not regret later, even if it doesn't add much to your survivability now. If you think you can tough out the role of glass cannon, and/or can get plate mail soon, this is your best bet. The best defense is a good offense, ounce of prevention pound of cure, yada yada. Still, this is theorycraft, and things might be different in your group.

Alternatively, as opposed to investing your own resources in healing, ask the Ranger to swap out a spell for Goodberry. That thing gives you some really amazing out of combat healing and may or may not solve your problem on its own.

[Corran]

You will have to take resilient con before getting access to haste, so that means you will either take it now (4th level) or at 8th level. You odd con score has set you up perfectly for a feat that is more or less mandatory for most paladins, definitely mandatory for vengeance paladins. That is one advice.

Does your DM let you use the great weapon figthing style, to reroll 1s and 2s on the smite dice? If not, change GWF for the defense fighting style.

You are using bless with your concentration, right? It is better than hunter' mark for you, dont be seduced by the extra d6 of hunter's mark, bless is the better choice. As alternative to bless, wrathful smite is also an excellent choice. Read its description carefuly, see if an enemy fails the initial saving throw that he has to roll ability checks with disadvantage (because frightened) thereafter, at the cost of using his action as well (if I remember correctly, away from book atm). Anyway, a good spell, though bless is still your first priority.

Polearm master and sentinel are still solid choices, even if you have GWM, I am not 100% sure if putting all those feats together is the best thing, but given that your ability scores are great, maybe it is worth it. You will be addding a lot to your offense, with polearm master and GWM, and with IDS adding a lot of damage to all of those attacks you make (including your reactions from either polearm master or sentinel). And sentinel will add some serious stickiness. As far as survivability goes, you will not have much more other than the paladin's basic features, which is a very decent (but not too great) AC, and good saves (aura of protection). Dealing a heck lot of damage and killing fast will be your best defense. All that while maxing out your str and cha too (resilient con, pm, sentinel, +2 str, +2 cha).

[LF219]

Right now, your group does not have a healer. This puts a bit of a damper on your situation.

I *am* the healer. 5e Pallys use Cure Wounds and Lay on Hands, and the Ranger has Cure Wounds and Goodberry as well. YES, we could definitely use another healer, but we manage.
I never get the chance to use any spells because healing always takes priority.

[LF219]

Can Lucky be used for Death Saves?

[Kellendros95]

I would think about +1 Con +1 Wis to make your stats really perfect. Just because I like even stats. :smallsmile: Of course, Lucky is better, but it is so OP... that's boring. We usually ban it. Charger never works, really. Heavy Armor Master is good early, but with time it becomes almost useless. Alert is always good. Resilient (Con) is good too.

[Corran]

Yes, I already have/use it. I received a bonus feat being a Lv.1 Variant Human.
I was actually talking about the fighting style ''great weapon figthing'', that you selected when you hit your 2nd paladin level, not the great weapon master feat. The fighting style (aka gwf) allows you to reroll your 1's and 2's of your damage dice. If our DM allows you to reroll smite damage/ hunter's mark damage/ etc, and not only weapon damage dice, then it is a good choice. If your DM allows the rerolls only for the greatsword dice (2d6), then you are probably better off with the defense figthing style, instead with gwf style, especially since you are doing most of the tanking.

[LF219]

I was actually talking about the fighting style ''great weapon figthing'', that you selected when you hit your 2nd paladin level, not the great weapon master feat. The fighting style (aka gwf) allows you to reroll your 1's and 2's of your damage dice. If our DM allows you to reroll smite damage/ hunter's mark damage/ etc, and not only weapon damage dice, then it is a good choice. If your DM allows the rerolls only for the greatsword dice (2d6), then you are probably better off with the defense figthing style, instead with gwf style, especially since you are doing most of the tanking.

Yes, he allows it.

When I can/do tank, I do it well. Basically I just stand between oncoming Evil Horde and the squishy Warlock and Ranger.

[Corran]

Yes, he allows it.

When I can/do tank, I do it well. Basically I just stand between oncoming Evil Horde and the squishy Warlock and Ranger.
Oh, that reminds me. Keep protection from evil prepared, you never know when you are going to need it :smallwink:

[Talamare]

Go Resilient Con
It will make you slightly tankier

Heavy Armor Master is garbage, don't take it
Tough is worse than +2 Con
Charger is basically only good on Rogues

You're supposed to be the Main Tank without using a Shield? or Defense/Protection Fighting Style?
As well as choking on being Main Healer? You will barely be able to tank with just using all your abilities to JUST heal yourself

Inspiring Leader might not be a terrible option, it's not an extremely powerful option, but its useful for a party with no true healer. At this level it will be an 8 HP Buffer for everyone, every short rest.

[VegBru]

To be a good tank as Pally, you should bump your AC. Plate will get you that, and you will notice the difference between AC16 and AC18 right away.

The next thing you need is more hitpoints. The best way for you to get that is Resilient: Con. This has the added, and incredible useful, benefit of giving you proficiency in Con saves. You will feel that a lot as you get access to even better concentration spells (not that Bless is not great).

The third thing you want is to make stuff dead fast. As mentioned, this will trigger your GWM bonus action attack more often. Get strengt to 20 soon.

It is super important to realize that things that buff/debuff is a better use of resources than in-combat healing. Use that Bless all the time!

Take Resilient Con on 4th, and then +2 Str at 8th. Alternatively the other way around.

[Talamare]

I think your core issue is trying to do it all, main tank, main support, main dps

[LF219]

To be a good tank as Pally, you should bump your AC... ...Take Resilient Con on 4th, and then +2 Str at 8th. Alternatively the other way around.

Swap my armour, Resiliant: Con, and the +2 Str sound like the most logical ideas right now. Thank you all so much for your suggestions so far.
If I do the Con now, I get a few bonus health and at lv. 5 the extra attack will increase my DPR. Who knows? I might get some magic item for a Str boost in the meantime.

It seems to me Bane is better than Bless. Am I right, or deceived by the sweet, sweet idea of battlefield control? Also, the Con save should help with spells more, right?

[VegBru]

Bless is the better spell because Bane can fail on a saving throw.

The Con (and proficiency in Con save) helps a lot with keeping your concentration when you take damage.

[LF219]

First off, I'd like to extend my thanks for everyone's help and explanations given back to me.
I decided to go with the Resilient: Con and get a STR boost at lv. 8.
I'll definitely pick up better armour in the main city, seeing as I saved enough to buy it.

Thank you again for your patience and advice. *waves*

Question: Do I close/delete this thread or should I leave it for other readers? Sorry, I'm new...

[Fable Wright]

First off, I'd like to extend my thanks for everyone's help and explanations given back to me.
I decided to go with the Resilient: Con and get a STR boost at lv. 8.
I'll definitely pick up better armour in the main city, seeing as I saved enough to buy it.

Thank you again for your patience and advice. *waves*

Question: Do I close/delete this thread or should I leave it for other readers? Sorry, I'm new...

You cannot close or delete threads; they just get forgotten and left to the archive.

[Lawful Good]

You cannot close or delete threads; they just get forgotten and left to the archive.

*cry* It's like it doesn't even have feelings:smallfrown:

[djreynolds]

GWM for a paladin can allow you to put out good damage, while saving those smites for when trouble happens. You have shield of faith and bless and protection from good and evil, and you have the stats to make this work. GWM will let you save those smites. Your wizard can PFGE on you, and he can hang in the back. And you can cast shield of faith, and the cleric can cast bless. You may never get hit hard enough to lose concentration.

Team Work.

I like resilient con and war caster, but IMO, some hits are going to break your concentration at early level no matter what. Resilient con is nice, but you can wait til you proficiency is worth it to select.

Take GWM now, and maybe polearm master close to 11th level.