Does anyone here have experience with d20 WOW RPG?

[Nnanji]

First, a short intro...

I haven't been able to play any RPGs fpr a year or so because all of my old friends moved away/had kids/got bored, or what have you. Recently though, my girlfriend, who is an avid World of Warcraft fan, has expressed an interest in playing some pen and paper RPGs. Our friends who also play the MMO also seemed interested, so now I have a group again. Yee-haw! I picked up the 3rd edition of the World of Warcraft d20 rules to look over. I thought that this would give her a good understanding of the basic classes and races, while also teaching her the basics of d20. I didn't pick up the monster book though, because I figured it would be easy enough to convert D&D monsters to Warcraft.

SO, after reading through the rules a couple of times I was wondering, is this game balanced? I don't have the monsters to look at for comparison, but it seems like the poor things must die in ridiculous quantities.

The Warriors (fighters) get some interesting new feats, especially Shout feats, which let them inflict a number of mind affecting status effects on the enemies. This does a good job of letting them function like tanks is the MMOs. They can attract the enemie's attention, frighten them, etc.

The paladins get the aura abilities from the game, allowing them to boost the party. I like this, and feel it provides some nice flavor for the class.

But sweet Molly-McGee!!! What did they do to the wizards?!? Did they feel like they weren't broken enough? They increased their hit die to d6s. They give them the bonus abilites, called arcana, which seem very overpowered. Necromancers get at first level a touch ability that kills the target with no save if the necromancer exceeds its hit points with 1d6/level. Mages can call elementals. But worst of all, the spellcraft skill grants spellcasters +1 spell per spell level for every 4 ranks in the skill. Sp a level 17 spellcaster, with 20 ranks in spellcraft, gets 6 9th level spells per day!

What do you all think? There are some very interesting things in this book. Some of it I like very much. But did they buff the monsters to the point where spellcasters need this much power? And if so, what are the other classes supposed to do? Has anyone played the system as written, and if so, how was it? Did the non-spellcasters have fun?

[Kurald Galain]

I've read the book but not actually played it (we were going to do a campaign but decided to go for another setting instead). Overall it would seem that the power level is higher, but the versatility is lower. In particular, spell lists are way shorter than they are in standard D&D, and wizards tend to become focused on blasters, which is generally considered the weakest form of D&D wizard. Overall it weakens casters some, boosts meleers some, and strenghtens low-level characters.

I do believe that monsters dying in ridiculous quantities is pretty much the point :)

[ndragonsbane]

Although I don't have a lot of experience with it, I have run a couple of adventures using that system. First, if you plan a long campaign and one of your players is a mage or warlock you should definitely pick up the monster manual for the setting as it has pretty specific rules on how to deal with elemental and demonic companions for those classes (warlocks in specific get the shaft in pets if you don't have the demons from that book). As for balance...well, the group that I DM'd had 0 spellcasters in it and they had plenty of fun slaughtering Murlocs. The system worked out pretty well as a hack and slash with quests more similar to those you would see in the MMO than those in a normal D&D game. As for the mages...you're right that they are pretty crazy, but the system REQUIRES they pay a pretty hefty sum for every spell that they learn, and they learn NOTHING automatically. They have to pay a trainer who already possesses the spell in order to learn it. Although it is generally said that a gp cost is not a balancing factor, I think the trainer is. From the little experience I've had with the spellcasters (One priest npc and one warlock npc) they are powerful, but the scout with him was just as affective in 90% of the encounters they had. Just remember that you cannot assume all the spells in the book are the same as those in standard D&D and that even if you think a feat or skill works the same you should probably check it first. The only real beef I had with the system as a whole is that it has a 3.0 version with something approaching 6 books already released that no longer mesh well with the new revision, so you have to be careful when looking into supplements.

[Nnanji]

Thanks for the notes. I completely missed the not learning spells automatically part. That should help as a RP balance, I just need to make sure no NPCs know Timestop, the thought of 6 or 7 timestops per day sends cold chills down my spine. I was also worried about the older supplements. I'm actually a little surprised the scout was as effective as you say. Reading the rules made me think they were one of the least effective character classes. I do like their wild healing ability though.

Did you try any of the tinkering classes or rules? I really like them and was wondering what feedback you night have for that system.

[ndragonsbane]

Frankly, I agree that the scout is one of the weaker classes, but he made the character a fireamrs heavy dwarven rifleman with a bayonet...and firearms are pretty awesome when you can use them as an effective melee or ranged weapon (was a TWF with whatever the pistol whip feat was so his gun was a pretty effective double weapon I think). We only played for a few adventures though so the class might become much less effective later on.

I did have a goblin tinkerer that I made as an NPC though he was never played. It's a decent class if you spend a lot of time thinking up nifty tech devices for them, but I never really got past the equipment stage with him so I'm not really sure how effective they can be. I did like the rules for tinkering but I remember next to nothing about them unfortunately.

On the timestop note...I don't think it even exists in WoW. Most of their spells are strait out of WoW or the older warcraft games and although I never went through the high level spells I doubt timestop was included.

[Indon]

What do you all think? There are some very interesting things in this book. Some of it I like very much. But did they buff the monsters to the point where spellcasters need this much power? And if so, what are the other classes supposed to do? Has anyone played the system as written, and if so, how was it? Did the non-spellcasters have fun?

I found that the noncasting classes were generally stronger than their counterparts (Fighters get more and better feats, Rogues get special abilities earlier, Hunter companion absolutely rocks compared to Ranger companion, etc), and casting classes stay about the same. Yes, they're a bit tougher, but they have less spells to select from because of the division of the Arcanist lists. Ditto with healers and their paths.

And if you still feel that arcane magic is too powerful, just implement runemages instead.

As for my play experience, we played an about standard group; Troll Fighter/Barbarian (me), Goblin Tinker, High Elf Arcanist (I think Mage), and a Troll Healer (cleric). We did a kick-in-the-door-and-kill-the-demons type of campaign.

Jungle Trolls are a pretty potent race, especially for a meleer. I never needed healing. Our tinker just did his thing, our mage was mostly blasting (There's much less batman magic in the WoW RPG, at least, the 2'nd ed of it), and our cleric patched wounds and raised hell wit' da voodoo.

My judgement of the system is that it's a solid one. In terms of balance, insofar as it matters, it's probably superior to standard D&D. But, keep in mind that the Warcraft P&P game has strong RTS influences; logistics and resources should be important. There is an entire chapter at the end of the book on city stats, as an example.

Edit: As for the high-power spells, I think Timestop is a Mage spell. Shapechange is a Druid spell, Gate is Warlock (and I'm pretty sure it's weaker), and Foresight is Shaman.

[Exarch]

Hello, I played in a WoW game last year. It was fun, for the most part. Here's a few things I noticed...

1. Tinkerer's can be really broken. The rules set up for them are written VERY poorly in my opinion, and can lead to some very ridiculous stuff. We had a Steam Tank at level...5 or something?

2. Paladins in WoW are actually worth playing, as opposed to their DnD counterparts.

3. Trolls are amazing. They're really the only racial class that are worth it.

4. All the extra feats really help to strength melee-characters. And the equipment is pretty awesome.

5. The casters may be able to know and cast more spells per level, but their lists are pretty restricted, so it should be okay. Also, Clerics aren't going to be walking around in heavy armor, clubbing giants like they're baby seals. Druids are still pretty powerful though.

6. Gladiator PrC is pretty rock if I recall correctly.

[Zephyros]

Azeroth is a really nasty universe to play in and still play a fantasy rpg.. If handled right by the DM (so that the game does not end up being a WoW hack n slash ripoff) it can be gritty, dark, grim - no real good guys exist (especially after the Scourging) it all about power.. It also has some awesome NPCs (who variate in power - no such a think as infinite number of epic archmages - demons tend to devour them anyway...)

As far as the rules of the game they are somewhat ballanced, no power triad exists here... No broken prestige classes( except for the gladiator may be - 3rd ed weapon master ) but still a handfull of really nice ways to make your character "special"..

I really liked the old Magic and Mayhem book... It made even batmen wizards to think before casting in the Warcraft setting. Added some pretty dark aspects to magic -such as nether whispers etc etc.. (when I feel an evil-dm urge in me I use it in other settings :smallbiggrin: )

The "geography" books can also be of good use to the DM.

The only think that makes me a little dizzy about learning it is the Tinker Co... I usually ban them from pcs.

Anyway... At the end its the setting you want it to be. You can either play some psycho-cthulu oriented-zombie hunter- campaign through some part of the Scarlet Crusade... Dark and Grim as it was meant to be.. You can sell protection at the brothels in Ratchet and have a ****load of fun, as a goblin tinker... Run a political campaign that dabbles in the tension developing between Ogrimar and Theramore etc etc etc.. Or you can even play in some older era of the setting.

phew!

[Indon]

Azeroth is a really nasty universe to play in and still play a fantasy rpg.. If handled right by the DM (so that the game does not end up being a WoW hack n slash ripoff) it can be gritty, dark, grim - no real good guys exist (especially after the Scourging) it all about power.. It also has some awesome NPCs (who variate in power - no such a think as infinite number of epic archmages - demons tend to devour them anyway...)


I disagree about the 'no real good guys'. There are a large number of people who are good in their own way or respect. Just as one can have a grey-area Scarlet Crusade campaign, one can turn around and have a heroic Cenarion campaign, with druids fighting against the dire, evil threats to the planets' very life.

Though, I will say that a heroic Warcraft campaign is probably going to be lighter on arcane magic and heavier on divine magic, though. Druids, Shaman and Paladins tend more towards the heroic campaign than arcanists like Warlocks and Necromancers.

[Nnanji]

Well my GF will prolly be a night elf druid, so a heroic game is not out of the question. One of the things I like about the setting is that whether you play Alliance or Horde you can be heroic in your own faction's eyes. I do think that it's harder to play arcane heroes since two of the three arcane classes turn you evil as you level up.

And in response to my own first post, a more thorough reading of the magic section has revealed where I made a mistake. Apparantly casters function as a cross between wizards and sorcerors. They prepare spells from their spell list every day, like a wizard. They then cast any prepared spell with their spellslots like a sorceror. So when spellcraft says they can prepare 1 extra spell/level/4 ranks, they mean they have those extra spells on their list of castable spells, not extra spellslots. I guess I was confused on their arcane terminology.

[SpikeFightwicky]

Well my GF will prolly be a night elf druid, so a heroic game is not out of the question. One of the things I like about the setting is that whether you play Alliance or Horde you can be heroic in your own faction's eyes. I do think that it's harder to play arcane heroes since two of the three arcane classes turn you evil as you level up.

And in response to my own first post, a more thorough reading of the magic section has revealed where I made a mistake. Apparantly casters function as a cross between wizards and sorcerors. They prepare spells from their spell list every day, like a wizard. They then cast any prepared spell with their spellslots like a sorceror. So when spellcraft says they can prepare 1 extra spell/level/4 ranks, they mean they have those extra spells on their list of castable spells, not extra spellslots. I guess I was confused on their arcane terminology.

Are you using the revised (3.5) version? (The book ways 'World of Warcraft RPG' instead of 'Warcraft RPG') The revision cleaned up the system and reworked the classes and clarified invention construction. They have also released a revised 'Manual of Monsters' released a few months ago that is much better balanced and organized that the first one (it also has rules on how Warlocks get demon pets. Overall it's pretty balanced). The new edition has 'paths' for the spellcasters (e.g. a healer chooses the 'druid, priest or shaman' path, the arcanist chooses the 'mage, warlock, necromancer' path), and each path gets a basic spell list, plus some path specific spells.

[Nnanji]

Yeah, it's the 3.5 edition book. Have any other books besides the MOnster book been updated? In the bac of the main rulebook they advertise a lot of their other products, but I'm not sure if they would still be compatable.

[SpikeFightwicky]

Yeah, it's the 3.5 edition book. Have any other books besides the MOnster book been updated? In the bac of the main rulebook they advertise a lot of their other products, but I'm not sure if they would still be compatable.

I believe there's 'More Magic and Mayhem', which is a revision/new content along the lines of the original. They released an Alliance sourcebook and a Horde sourcebook, but I haven't picked those up yet. I have a couple more of the revised books at home, but I can't remember their names.