Artificer Multiclass Optimization: Possible?

[RickAllison]

Alright, I don't know if any threads about this have come out and I just can't find it, but how would you create a single- or multiclass build using the Artificer archetype from UA: Eberron? The one thing I can think of off the top of my head is that the Infuse Potions and Infuse Weapons and Armor features are completely separate from wizard levels. So, for example, an archer Bard could have a supply of +2 arrows that can be replenished by spending the time-frame of a ritual and a 6th-level slot. Other thoughts?

EDIT: For the sake of compiling ideas:
Archers, +2 ammunition - Me
Grapplers with concentration-free Enlarge - joaber

[joaber]

grappler. At lvl 2 you can make 3/day enlarge potion that work for 1d4 hours without concentration.

[RickAllison]

Just looking through the spell-lists, here are some spells that could gain some benefit from the Infuse Scrolls ability by not consuming components:

Arcane Lock (25 gp)
Awaken (1000 gp)
Continual Flame (50 gp)
Divination (25 gp)
Find Familiar (10 gp)
Glyph of Warding (200 gp)
Greater Restoration (100 gp)
Hallow (1000 gp)
Illusory Script (10 gp)
Legend Lore (250 gp)
Magic Circle (100 gp)
Magic Mouth (10 gp)
Nondetection (25 gp)
Planar Binding (1000 gp)
Raise Dead (500 gp)
Reincarnate (1000 gp)
Revivify (300 gp)
Stoneskin (100 gp)
Teleportation Circle (50 gp)



Incidentally, has there been any official words on whether to restriction to regaining spell slots from Arcane Recovery applies to Infuse Scrolls?

If not, these are also options:

Astral Projection (1100 gp)
Clone (3000, only 1000 gp consumed)
Sequester (5000 gp)
Simulacrum (1500 gp)
True Seeing (25 gp)

[SharkForce]

huh. hadn't noticed the free scroll cheese. i was too busy noticing that infuse scroll is in fact not restricted by the level limitation on arcane recovery.

since infuse scroll is not restricted by arcane recovery, it lets you do things that require two high level spell slots that you normally couldn't get. things like true polymorphing a rock into a CR 9 creature and then using a scroll of planar binding in a level 9 slot to get a year of free service.

but the real cheese, as always, comes from simulacrum chains. your simulacrum explicitly cannot recover spell slots, but *can* recover arcane recovery (it just can't use it to recover spell slots).

which means you can have a team of simulacrums (and simulacrums of simulacrums), all using free scrolls to cast more simulacrum spells, and then giving you a giant pile of scrolls of whatever spells you want. alternately, you can potentially even cheese it without chain simulacrum; you create a simulacrum using a scroll (free of charge). have that simulacrum use up all of its arcane recovery making scrolls. those scrolls last indefinitely, so just make a new simulacrum which destroys the old one. the new simulacrum has its own arcane recovery and infuse scrolls ability. also, while you're at it, you can get 3 potions out of each one too, though the potions do have a shelf-life unlike the scrolls. and, while you're at it making yourself a nigh-infinite scroll library, you can slow down and "only" make a new simulacrum once per week, which will allow each one to make you a magic item before you replace it.

of course, this is all completely broken and i would sincerely hope that the artificer wizard doesn't see print in its current form (for balance reasons, and also because it doesn't look much like the artificer that people were hoping for when they asked for an artificer class).

[JackOfAllBuilds]

Does creating a scroll of Glyph of Warding: Explosive Runes do anything to change its lack of portability issues? Can you still set the activation trigger when you're making the scroll, or only when you use your action to "cast it" from scroll??

Getting close to the Varsuvius "I prepared Explosive Runes today" trick of handing something over.

[RickAllison]

Does creating a scroll of Glyph of Warding: Explosive Runes do anything to change its lack of portability issues? Can you still set the activation trigger when you're making the scroll, or only when you use your action to "cast it" from scroll??

Getting close to the Varsuvius "I prepared Explosive Runes today" trick of handing something over.

I feel like it had better! I created this thread because I really want to try an Artificer but they seemed weak. Ideas like these are why I posted it here :smallsmile:

[SharkForce]

Does creating a scroll of Glyph of Warding: Explosive Runes do anything to change its lack of portability issues? Can you still set the activation trigger when you're making the scroll, or only when you use your action to "cast it" from scroll??

Getting close to the Varsuvius "I prepared Explosive Runes today" trick of handing something over.

the scroll is not a scroll that has glyph of warding cast on it. it is a scroll that lets you cast glyph of warding. it is as portable as a scroll of fireball or magic missile.

once you cast the glyph of warding from the scroll, it is no more portable than any other glyph of warding, however.

edit: wait, someone thought artificer was weak?

nobody liked it because it wasn't the eberron artificer they were hoping for. power-wise, it is probably the strongest wizard archetype, i'd say.

[RickAllison]

the scroll is not a scroll that has glyph of warding cast on it. it is a scroll that lets you cast glyph of warding. it is as portable as a scroll of fireball or magic missile.

once you cast the glyph of warding from the scroll, it is no more portable than any other glyph of warding, however.

edit: wait, someone thought artificer was weak?

nobody liked it because it wasn't the eberron artificer they were hoping for. power-wise, it is probably the strongest wizard archetype, i'd say.

From what I had read, they were versatile but lack-luster compared to the other archetypes. I realize it is nothing like the original Artificer, but I was thinking about trying my hand with an Arcane Archer using him.

[SharkForce]

artificer might become a lot more impressive if they release it as an official class, because frankly it's kinda borked as-is. but if you just look at what it does, it's kinda nuts just how many concentration-free buffs you get, not to mention the ability to turn downtime into magic items.

[Sirithhyando]

I may not have that much experience with D&D, i've only started with the 4th edition.
In 4th, the artificier was definitly my favorite.
I loved how he could just empowered bolt to fit his crossbow.

Next time i make an artificier in 5th edition, i'm pretty sure i'll multi-class him with the fighter.
It would just add to his versatility and well the image of a fighter able to magically enhance his weapons, bolts, arrows is very nice.

So yeah, i'd multiclass him with fighter. And as fighter at first level, at least you'd get some more HP.

[Finlam]

Just looking through the spell-lists, here are some spells that could gain some benefit from the Infuse Scrolls ability by not consuming components:


Can someone link me to the artificer description. The PDF that I'm looking at doesn't even mention the cost of material components at all, leading me to conclude that you would still have to pay for costly material components. Perhaps I'm looking at an older version of the class.

RE: Simulacrum chaining: Simulacrum states "If you cast this spell again, any currently active duplicates you created with this spell are instantly destroyed." Note that it doesn't specify duplicates of a single creature, but rather "any currently active duplicates" meaning you can have one and only one simulacrum at any time. Though you could just play an entire party of artificers and everybody could have a simulacrum; for maximized chaos, why not all be Changelings too, nobody will ever know who's who and who's real; heck, you could even be an entire gang of people who all look exactly identical. (a collective?) It sounds fun already =)

[SharkForce]

Can someone link me to the artificer description. The PDF that I'm looking at doesn't even mention the cost of material components at all, leading me to conclude that you would still have to pay for costly material components. Perhaps I'm looking at an older version of the class.

RE: Simulacrum chaining: Simulacrum states "If you cast this spell again, any currently active duplicates you created with this spell are instantly destroyed." Note that it doesn't specify duplicates of a single creature, but rather "any currently active duplicates" meaning you can have one and only one simulacrum at any time. Though you could just play an entire party of artificers and everybody could have a simulacrum; for maximized chaos, why not all be Changelings too, nobody will ever know who's who and who's real; heck, you could even be an entire gang of people who all look exactly identical. (a collective?) It sounds fun already =)

the simulacrum chain is caused by the fact that your simulacrum has all your spell slots, and does not have a simulacrum. you don't get 100 simulacrums; you get a simulacrum that has a simulacrum that has a simulacrum etc ad nausea.

not that i advocate doing this, mind you, but that's how the cheese works.

the PDF you're looking at most likely is the artificer description. the problem is that you don't have to cast the spell. you just sit there for 10 minutes, making a scroll, and at the end you have a scroll of whatever spell you're looking for. since you didn't ever cast the spell, you don't need material components (or any components, for that matter). and when you use a scroll, you don't need material components either.

this sort of thing is why there is a disclaimer at the top of every unearthed arcana article warning you that it is playtest material rather than a finished product. artificer has some rather ridiculous loopholes in it that you would hope wouldn't make it into a finished product. in any event, the preview more or less did its job; WotC found out that this is not the artificer we were looking for, so i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a final version.

[RickAllison]

I'm not savvy with the technique for chaining Simulacrum, nor do I want to be. My main use for the Simulacrum is the fact that I can get him for free rather than paying 1500 gp. This is not due to the text of the Artificer class, but due to the description of spell scrolls in the DMG:


A spell scroll bears the words of a single spell, written -
a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your class's spellli
you can use an action to read the scroll and cast its spe
without having to provide any of the spell's componen "
Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible.

[Sirithhyando]

I'm not savvy with the technique for chaining Simulacrum, nor do I want to be. My main use for the Simulacrum is the fact that I can get him for free rather than paying 1500 gp. This is not due to the text of the Artificer class, but due to the description of spell scrolls in the DMG:

The part where it says

If the spell is on your class's spellli
you can use an action to read the scroll and cast its spe
without having to provide any of the spell's componen "
Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible.

I always thought you didn't provide component because it was already provided when transcribed into a scroll.
I dont have my books with me so i can't search for reference, but i think you would still need to provide the cost at some point.

[RickAllison]

The part where it says


I always thought you didn't provide component because it was already provided when transcribed into a scroll.
I dont have my books with me so i can't search for reference, but i think you would still need to provide the cost at some point.

You would need to with standard item creation rules. However, the UA: Artficer is pretty explicit about not needing it:


You must finish a short rest, then spend 10 minutes with parchment, quill, and ink to create a spell scroll
containing one spell chosen from those you know.

With the level 14 ability to create low-power magic items over a week once per month, they also don't need to pay for any components. Part of the Artificer's flavor this go-around is that they find ways to get around standard item creation limits.

[RickAllison]

Here is another thing I would love some input on: the 14th level ability is niche but it does offer some interesting ideas *coughMitralPlatecough*, but what about a campaign with no down-time? For every other Wizard archetype, L14 gives a very potent ability, so would it break the game any to let them have the ability (probably not the L14, however) of another school at that level, or is there some other solution that doesn't require entirely new material?

EDIT: What about Extra Attack or Battle Magic? Either seems to synergize well with the more traditional image of the Artificer.

[SharkForce]

well, by level 14 you can infuse a scroll of simulacrum for free and have your simulacrum craft things for you, since it has the same ability.

but seriously, you never have a week of downtime?

[RickAllison]

well, by level 14 you can infuse a scroll of simulacrum for free and have your simulacrum craft things for you, since it has the same ability.

but seriously, you never have a week of downtime?

Nope. Since it is a campus group, we are pretty much hitting the ground running every session without a break. The two times we've had something approaching downtime was when we traveled by ship/airship and we were put to work so it still didn't have any crafting time. I'm not sure more than two weeks have passed in-game since I joined two months ago.

[SharkForce]

hmmmm... well, barring planar time trait shenanigans (which generally invokes the wrath of DM and may or may not exist in your DM's game anyways), i think the crafting simulacrum might be the best option. you won't have the simulacrum as a combat minion if you do that unfortunately, but at least it's something.

[RickAllison]

hmmmm... well, barring planar time trait shenanigans (which generally invokes the wrath of DM and may or may not exist in your DM's game anyways), i think the crafting simulacrum might be the best option. you won't have the simulacrum as a combat minion if you do that unfortunately, but at least it's something.

Oh well, even without the exploit I think there is enough cheese I will be using between free Simulacrum and Wish scrolls that having a lower-use L14 ability is fine. I am sad that there just doesn't seem to be enough support to justify making an Arcane Archer out of the Artificer chassis. Even with a level in Fighter and Multiattack through lycanthropy, it just doesn't have enough synergy to be justifiable over a more traditional build.