Monk Opinion

[Nasagi]

I'm about to start playing in a new campaign and I was thinking of playing a monk. I was considering Shadow or Long Death for the archtype, but i was curious on everyone's thoughts as to which race I should pick and if i went variant human which feat.
Also curious if i should consider multiclassing, and if so warlock or rogue. If i went monlock I'd probably do pact of the blade/fiend patron, just for flavor but ANY opinions will be welcome and thanks in advance

[Malifice]

I'm about to start playing in a new campaign and I was thinking of playing a monk. I was considering Shadow or Long Death for the archtype, but i was curious on everyone's thoughts as to which race I should pick and if i went variant human which feat.
Also curious if i should consider multiclassing, and if so warlock or rogue. If i went monlock I'd probably do pact of the blade/fiend patron, just for flavor but ANY opinions will be welcome and thanks in advance

Monk-locks are OK (Hex is a great way to up a Monks DPR, and a great way to screw over a targets Str checks to aid with grapples and the like) if a little MAD (you add Charisma to the list of stats needed and its a traditional dump stat for the Monk).

Shadow Monk + Shadow Sorcerer + Assasin sounds pretty dope too. Black Moon monks (Sharrans) with a ninja vibe.

[RickAllison]

I'm about to start playing in a new campaign and I was thinking of playing a monk. I was considering Shadow or Long Death for the archtype, but i was curious on everyone's thoughts as to which race I should pick and if i went variant human which feat.
Also curious if i should consider multiclassing, and if so warlock or rogue. If i went monlock I'd probably do pact of the blade/fiend patron, just for flavor but ANY opinions will be welcome and thanks in advance

Aarakocra are insane if your DM permits them; bonuses to your primary stats and additional battlefield mobility are exactly what monks love. Ghostwise Halflings could be good as well; bonuses to both primary stats, the wonderful Lucky feature, and telepathy if you wish to be stealthy. Wood Elf gets you great bonuses, and Vhuman gets you a feat (to grab Observant for the only +2 Wisdom of all the races!). Those are four of the best options for monk races.

Rogue isn't MAD and has excellent synergy with Shadow, especially if you avoid doubling up on the Evasion feature; if your DM lets you apply Sneak Attack to unarmed attacks, you are in glorious business. Warlock can work, but makes you more MAD and doesn't contribute that much (unless your DM let you apply Undying Light damage bonus to a Sun Soul Monk's attacks). A level in Cleric (War) gives you Divine Favor, giving you an extra 3 or 4d4 damage per turn as well as lots of other fun bonuses. MCing into Druid can be fantastic if your DM lets you apply Monk bonuses to your Wild Shapes. Who doesn't enjoy a giant constrictor snake dealing out 4 strikes of 3d10+4 each?

EDIT: as Malifice pointed out, Hex is utterly fantastic. Remember that it not only helps you deal more damage, but also can be used to add disadvantage to Perception checks. Hex someone's Perception, attack them up to four times for 1dX+5 each until they go unconscious, then keep it in your back pocket until you need to knock out someone else.

[Malifice]

Aarakocra are insane if your DM permits them; bonuses to your primary stats and additional battlefield mobility are exactly what monks love. Ghostwise Halflings could be good as well; bonuses to both primary stats, the wonderful Lucky feature, and telepathy if you wish to be stealthy. Wood Elf gets you great bonuses, and Vhuman gets you a feat (to grab Observant for the only +2 Wisdom of all the races!). Those are four of the best options for monk races.

I like mobile on a Monk. Really plays to the classes strength (priority target stunning fist delivery system).


Rogue isn't MAD and has excellent synergy with Shadow, especially if you avoid doubling up on the Evasion feature; if your DM lets you apply Sneak Attack to unarmed attacks, you are in glorious business.

Shortswords are finesse weapons and are also monk weapons. Refluff one as a Jian, Sai, Kama or Ninja-to (perfect for shadow monk ninja wanna-be's who MC with assasin) and you're golden.


Warlock can work, but makes you more MAD and doesn't contribute that much (unless your DM let you apply Undying Light damage bonus to a Sun Soul Monk's attacks). A level in Cleric (War) gives you Divine Favor, giving you an extra 3 or 4d4 damage per turn as well as lots of other fun bonuses. MCing into Druid can be fantastic if your DM lets you apply Monk bonuses to your Wild Shapes. Who doesn't enjoy a giant constrictor snake dealing out 4 strikes of 3d10+4 each?

Im a bit sketchy of being able to use martial arts in Wildshape form personally. Im not persuaded that your katas/ arm locks/ strikes really apply to a form without arms and legs (for example).

I always found the classic 3.P druid in velociraptor form, wearing a black belt and a rising sun headband and adopting a martial art stance ridiculous (if hillarious).


EDIT: as Malifice pointed out, Hex is utterly fantastic. Remember that it not only helps you deal more damage, but also can be used to add disadvantage to Perception checks. Hex someone's Perception, attack them up to four times for 1dX+5 each until they go unconscious, then keep it in your back pocket until you need to knock out someone else.

The big problem is the lack of Con saves to keep it up. That said, with 2 levels of 'lock you get 2/short rest so it should be enough most days.

[RickAllison]

Shortswords are finesse weapons and are also monk weapons. Refluff one as a Jian, Sai, Kama or Ninja-to (perfect for shadow monk ninja wanna-be's who MC with assasin) and you're golden.

Shortswords/daggers are great for your Attack action (with one Extra Attack), but that only affects two of your three or four attacks. That was never in question. It is just handy to have three or four chances for success rather than just two, especially when you have an enemy with a high AC.

[Malifice]

Shortswords/daggers are great for your Attack action (with one Extra Attack), but that only affects two of your three or four attacks. That was never in question. It is just handy to have three or four chances for success rather than just two, especially when you have an enemy with a high AC.

Still, two swings are better than one! You can weild two if you want and use the TWF action (for 3 attacks) forgoing the flurry (which costs 1 ki to use anyway). Its not a bad option (and dual Sai/ dragon swords or whatever you want to fluff your shortsword/ dagger as) is pretty thematically cool also.

Again, I like a 3 level BM fighter dip though, and maybe 2 of rogue to go with 15 or 17 of Monk. No MAD, and the abilities really complement each other (expertise in acrobatics and althletics or stealth). You can bonus action dash + monk movement speed + action + action surge + stunning fist + superiority dice yourself into awesomeness.

[Nasagi]

Thanks for all the tips so far guys. Yall rock. Im a little bit of a newbie still so forgive me, but what does MAD mean? I know RAW & RAI but not sure on the other
Edit did more thinking and figured it probably meant multiple ability dependent by the context it's being used it

[RickAllison]

Thanks for all the tips so far guys. Yall rock. Im a little bit of a newbie still so forgive me, but what does MAD mean? I know RAW & RAI but not sure on the other
Edit did more thinking and figured it probably meant multiple ability dependent by the context it's being used it

MAD=Multiple Ability Dependent, SAD=Single Ability Dependent

A Rogue can use Dexterity for his attack, his sneaking, his stealing, his everything. He might want other abilities, but the only thing he truly needs is Dex. In contrast, a Paladin needs both Strength and Charisma 13 (if he wants to MC) because he needs either Str or Dex for combat prowess and then Cha for his spellcasting and other effects. A Monk needs Dex and Wis, though the exact ratio depends on which archetype. Long Deaths can get away with smaller Wisdom if they don't mind a lower AC and DC for Stunning Strike and their fear attack, for example.

[Citan]

Im a bit sketchy of being able to use martial arts in Wildshape form personally. Im not persuaded that your katas/ arm locks/ strikes really apply to a form without arms and legs (for example).

I always found the classic 3.P druid in velociraptor form, wearing a black belt and a rising sun headband and adopting a martial art stance ridiculous (if hillarious).

Agreed. As a DM, I'd tend to allow it only once the character has attained a certain level in both classes and dedicated himself to a particular form both in fight and downtime.
"Learning to move this bear body as if it had always been his own..."

To answer OP post, I second the Mobile suggestion on a Variant Human.
An alternative could be Magic Initiate in either Druid, Cleric or Warlock.
Cleric would allow you to Bless yourself, especially useful to you because of your number of attacks. Also, you get Sacred Flame and Guidance which are always useful.

Druid would be perfect for Shillelagh (better attack early), Produce Flame (ranged attack) or Thorn Whip (when every target is just a bit too far away). You could learn either Faerie Fire (to help hitting), Thunderwave (escape button) or Entangle (more useful once you get Stunning Strike). Even Longstrider could have its uses but since you cannot change the spell later...

Warlock would require a 13 in CHA but net you the great Hex for a consistent upgrade in damage, as well as Booming Blade cantrip and any another.

[Arkhios]

Agreed. As a DM, I'd tend to allow it only once the character has attained a certain level in both classes and dedicated himself to a particular form both in fight and downtime.
"Learning to move this bear body as if it had always been his own..."

To answer OP post, I second the Mobile suggestion on a Variant Human.
An alternative could be Magic Initiate in either Druid, Cleric or Warlock.
Cleric would allow you to Bless yourself, especially useful to you because of your number of attacks. Also, you get Sacred Flame and Guidance which are always useful.

[snip]

Warlock would require a 13 in CHA but net you the great Hex for a consistent upgrade in damage, as well as Booming Blade cantrip and any another.

Seconded: Mobile would indeed be a good option, likewise Magic Initiate as suggested is useful in a variety of ways.

However, I'd like to point out another option regarding the two above (emphasis mine): If your DM allows Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide supplementary book for Forgotten Realms (you didn't mention whether your game was set in Forgotten Realms or not), you could multiclass into Cleric with Arcane domain. That way you wouldn't have to go MAD with DEX, WIS, and CHA, and you could take Booming Blade and perhaps even Green-Flame Blade in addition to getting Bless, Sacred Flame and Guidance. Not to mention you'd also get Magic Missile as a Domain Spell!

[EvilAnagram]

Another MC option is to take two levels of Ranger, which net you Hunter's Mark, the Dueling style, and some utility spells without contributing to MAD at all.

[JumboWheat01]

Warlock/Shadow Monk is a particularly useful and popular combination. Start off as monk, get just enough Warlock levels so you can snag the Invocation that lets you see through magical darkness, and voila, you can now see through your own Darkness spell that you can drop where ever you want, and even teleport to. I do want to suggest not eating up TOO many monk levels though, there is a class feature that gives you proficiency in ALL saving throws, and that's just plain tasty. Pretty much giving the bird to any spell caster you encounter.

[MrStabby]

If you wanted to, you could do both? Get to level 6 monk (for the iconic ability and the extra attack at level 5) then 1 level of rogue for expertise and sneak attack then a couple of levels of warlock for invocations and short-rest spellcasting. You could even go lower wisdom with this path as the Armour of Shadows invocation (as well as being very thematic) could cover your AC.

[Citan]

If you wanted to, you could do both? Get to level 6 monk (for the iconic ability and the extra attack at level 5) then 1 level of rogue for expertise and sneak attack then a couple of levels of warlock for invocations and short-rest spellcasting. You could even go lower wisdom with this path as the Armour of Shadows invocation (as well as being very thematic) could cover your AC.
Except that then you would become less efficient at Monk abilities, notably the Stunning Strike.

For a Shadow, this may be very viable as long as the concept follows, since no archetype ability relies on Wisdom. So you "forego" Stunning Strike except when it's really needed (and you're ready to fail a few times before succeeding) and instead use your Ki essentially on shadow abilities, Flurry of Blows or Dash/Dodge/Disengage.

For a Long Death, this significantly reduce the potency of Hour of Reaping, which is however as useful an ability as Stunning Strike, even more in some situations. Sure, you use basically your whole turn, since you can't even attack this turn (you use your action to frighten, so you can't even use Flurry of Blows, only Dodge/Dash). But frightening a group of enemies, even for one turn, can prove invaluable in a team. :)
It's still viable with a 16 WIS, but a bit of a shame to deter such ability. The 3rd and 11th levels abilities are great though so as with Shadow, you would spend your Ki only on FoB and Dodge/Disengage/Dash.

So I'd say go this way only for a Ninja concept, and not a "traditional" Monk. In which case indeed Warlock 2 / Assassin or Swashbuckler Rogue 1-3 /Monk 15 can be very powerful.
(Note that Shadow Sorcerer could be a nice alternative to the Warlock too if you'd prefer).


You could multiclass into Cleric with Arcane domain. That way you wouldn't have to go MAD with DEX, WIS, and CHA, and you could take Booming Blade and perhaps even Green-Flame Blade in addition to getting Bless, Sacred Flame and Guidance. Not to mention you'd also get Magic Missile as a Domain Spell!
Seconded, this is a very good idea and very solid option.
And I don't say this only because my bad luck with dices makes me love deeply the autohit from Magic Missiles ! :D
(Well, one per day is very limitative, but it can save your hide ^^).

Note though that Booming Blade is not necessarily great, it really depends on what the "major" is in the build. Since it eats your action, and cannot trigger bonus action attack nor FoB from Monk, its use would be only very situational in a Monk main build.
However, it would be great in the two following cases.

1. You take Warcaster feat , so you can apply both SA damage and a rider with your reaction: so you only use it on reactions but it brings a real added value.
Viable option only for Shadow though (since Shadow would have to concentrate on Darkness and such, it can be valuable. For Long Death, you have much better uses for your ASI).

2. You make Rogue main, at least main enough that using your action on cantrip and using your bonus action to Dash/Disengage/Hide/Dodge(1ki) on a regular basis as good as or better than making 3 (Martial Arts) or 4 (Attack+FoB).
(Not the time to do big maths, but I guess you would have to get Monk at least to lvl 6 for archetype feature, and Rogue at least up to 9 to get decent damage).

As a side note, dipping a few levels in Shadow Sorcerer to pursue the idea of Quickening Booming Blade would be a false good idea: Quicken eats 2 MP and you wouldn't have many, you would also need them to cast Darkness (so you can see through it).

[Nasagi]

You guys seem to be knowledgeable about Booming Blade, so i have a quick sub question. When reading it it says the target must take a Voluntary movement. I don't know many DMs who'd have them move after being subjected to the attack, when in a fight the enemies don't tend to dance the congo line in 5e like they did in 3.5 for flanking. Most of the ones I encounter just tend to sit in one spot. Am I reading the spell wrong or is that truly the case?

[Citan]

You guys seem to be knowledgeable about Booming Blade, so i have a quick sub question. When reading it it says the target must take a Voluntary movement. I don't know many DMs who'd have them move after being subjected to the attack, when in a fight the enemies don't tend to dance the congo line in 5e like they did in 3.5 for flanking. Most of the ones I encounter just tend to sit in one spot. Am I reading the spell wrong or is that truly the case?
You read the spell right. It's basically applying the same rule on Booming Blade effect as the rule on Opportunity Attacks.
It avoids easy chesse where any push/pull effect (Open Hand Monk, Thorn Whip, etc...) would be enough to trigger one or more opportunity attacks.

There are some cases though where it's legit (Dissonant Whispers) and other cases where I'm not sure actually (Command spell, some abilities that frighten to the point that affected creature wants to move away).

[Nasagi]

You read the spell right. It's basically applying the same rule on Booming Blade effect as the rule on Opportunity Attacks.
It avoids easy chesse where any push/pull effect (Open Hand Monk, Thorn Whip, etc...) would be enough to trigger one or more opportunity attacks.

There are some cases though where it's legit (Dissonant Whispers) and other cases where I'm not sure actually (Command spell, some abilities that frighten to the point that affected creature wants to move away).
That gives me an addendum question. If a druid using the dire wolf form tripped someone with booming blade, would standing up trigger the effect? I wouldn't think so but it does use their movement, or half of it. So it made me curious (i've got an AL game i'm in where my bladesinger rides on our druid's direwolf form)

[CaptAl]

You guys seem to be knowledgeable about Booming Blade, so i have a quick sub question. When reading it it says the target must take a Voluntary movement. I don't know many DMs who'd have them move after being subjected to the attack, when in a fight the enemies don't tend to dance the congo line in 5e like they did in 3.5 for flanking. Most of the ones I encounter just tend to sit in one spot. Am I reading the spell wrong or is that truly the case?

You're reading it right. That's why the mobile feat is such a great combo with BB. Rogue cunning action, and the monk Ki ability to disengage also are awesome with it. Force the mob to either eat the damage to get to you, or waste his turn avoiding the rider. Alternatively on a ranged attacker, apply Booming Blade and stay in his face. Now he has to attack with his bow at disadvantage, move away (possibly drawing an AoO and eating the rider damage), or draw a melee weapon losing his tactical advantage of a ranged attack.

[Arkhios]

A few things to take into consideration about BB. First of all, as a pre-emptive case, RAW unarmed strike doesn't qualify for BB, so you'd have to attack with maybe shortsword instead.
Secondly, an NPC without any knowledge whatsoever about magic shouldn't be instantly any more aware of the spell's effects than a player in same position shouldn't. A DM is supposed to know what majority of the spells do, but even DM should avoid metagaming this knowledge for the NPC's. If a DM then ceased an NPC's movement due to being hit by BB, and the NPC in question was, let's say, a beast, the DM is metagaming.

Metagaming DM is just as bad as a metagaming player.

[Nasagi]

A few things to take into consideration about BB. First of all, as a pre-emptive case, RAW unarmed strike doesn't qualify for BB, so you'd have to attack with maybe shortsword instead.
Secondly, an NPC without any knowledge whatsoever about magic shouldn't be instantly any more aware of the spell's effects than a player in same position shouldn't. A DM is supposed to know what majority of the spells do, but even DM should avoid metagaming this knowledge for the NPC's. If a DM then ceased an NPC's movement due to being hit by BB, and the NPC in question was, let's say, a beast, the DM is metagaming.

Metagaming DM is just as bad as a metagaming player.

Completely agree, I'd planned on using dual shortswords anyways for thematics. But i was saying in combat in the games I'm running, I just notice that the enemies never really move. They get into a position and usually just sit there and in most of my games so far none of us have ever really ran BB for that reason. I never thought of comboing it with things like Dissonant Whispers, so if i pick up a new cantrip or something I'll have to talk to my bard about combo'ing.

On that note, I appreciate all the monk tips you guys are giving! This is my 2nd 5e game, first was an AL game campaign, so it let me change my character around til i found something I enjoyed, the bladesinger. So i thought I'd try the monk now