Swift Hunter and "Favored Enemy" ACFs

[schreier]

I have a player making a character that is going to be based on Swift Hunter, so obviously starting with Scout and Ranger.

We are going to allow the Sparring Dummy of the Masters to get free 10' moves, which will really help with skirmish damage (avoiding AOO and allowing full attacks with skrimish) ...

To get the dummy to work, the player is thinking of taking a level in monk. There is an ACF in Dragon 310, "Hunter Monk" -- you gain favored enemy (as ranger), swift tracker (as ranger), survival as class skill ... you lose Bonus feat (1st level), slow fall. You can multiclass between monk and ranger freely.

So ... would you allow the monk class with the hunter monk ACF to count towards swift hunter? I'm inclined to allow it. There is a similar ACF for Barbarians - "Crafty Hunter" in UA and SRD ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm ) .... same question ...

With the power of spellcasters, I'm inclined to help melee out whenever possible.

I think a Scout / Ranger / Monk / Barbarian - Swift Hunter build could be really nasty (get pounce in there, improved trip, 10' free move, fast move from Barbarian, Scout and monk, favored enemy, etc ...)

Thoughts?
schreier

[ComaVision]

I wouldn't allow it because that's not what the rules say but it's certainly not going to harm anything if you do.

[schreier]

You're right - it definitely says "Ranger and Scout levels" - I figured, since both ACFs gave Favored Enemy "as Ranger" explicitly, that I thought I might allow it. I know the "as Ranger" is really there for the levels at which it is gained, but it seems close enough.

Considering that it only stacks favored enemy and skirmish, and not other class features - it has some basis in logic. RAW, clearly it is no.

[Troacctid]

Allowing it is fine. I allow it in my games.

[Flickerdart]

RAW, no. I would allow it, but not advise it - the typical Swift Hunter is almost all Ranger levels, after all.

[Darrin]

As has been already pointed out, the monk levels won't count towards skirmish progression. However, there is another part of Swift Hunter: you can deal precision damage to your favored enemies, even if they are immune. And the text there, by RAW, doesn't particularly care where the Favored Enemy came from. So it might be a faster way to load up on FE's than waiting for another 5 levels of ranger.

In addition to Barbarian, a Druid or Paladin dip can pick up Favored Enemy (UA p. 58).

A two-level dip in the Simple Barbarian is actually pretty thick with stuff:

Barb 1. Favored Enemy as Ranger. Swap Fast Movement for either Pounce (Spirit Lion Totem) or Blind-Fight (Dragon Totem).
Barb 2. Bonus Feat: Rapid Shot (Combat Style). Swap Uncanny Dodge for Bonus Feat: Improved Trip (Wolf Totem).

Unfortunately, you lose Whirling Frenzy. If you go Dragonborn later, you can lose one of those feats instead of your human bonus feat, and/or trade one away for Dragon Tail/Dragon Wings.

[AvatarVecna]

By RAW, these are the benefits of Swift Hunter:
Ranger levels count as Scout levels for determining what effect your Skirmish has.
Scout levels count as Ranger levels for determining when favored enemies are gained and what your bonus is against them.
Any favored enemy you possess loses any type-based immunity to precision damage it possesses in regards to your Skirmish damage.

The first two explicitly only work with Ranger and Scout, while the third can work with any source of Favored Enemy. I would be hesitant about allowing any class with a Favored Enemy progression to work: off the top of my head, Druid and Barbarian have ACFs from Unearthed Arcana that grant them the Ranger's Favored Enemy progression (among other things). Full Favored Enemy, Skirmish, and Druid casting is a pretty dangerous combination, while Barbarian goes the more obvious route of granting you pounce through another ACF that can be combined with the aforementioned ACF granting Favored Enemy.

EDIT: Wow, ninja'd by over an hour. That's what I get for not reading the full thread before posting.

[Eloel]

The fact that Scout stacks with Ranger does mean that if you get this as, say, a Favored Enemy Barbarian 1/Scout 5, you will instantly gain a +4 and a +2 favored enemy. Pretty decent deal.

[Troacctid]

Full Favored Enemy, Skirmish, and Druid casting is a pretty dangerous combination

Swift Avenger stacks scout and druid levels for skirmish and wild shape and only requires 1d6 skirmish, so I imagine most druids would want that instead.