OOTS #1029 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[hagnat]

Its nice seeing Roy finally accepting things as they are, instead of what he wishes for them to be.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Hamste]

Yay, new comic. Also like the idea of a mold randomly having a potion of fire resistance.

[Markozeta]

Just a mild rash. :smallbiggrin:

[Lerch]

I think they should consider "hiring" a NPC cleric....

[Porthos]

So nice to see Roy and Haley bonding over the issue of money. :smallamused:

[Keltest]

Its a silly D&D joke! I can appreciate the story for what it is, but its nice to see those crop up now and again.

[Lordchoculla]

New comic is up.

Excellent yet again, thanks! :smallsmile:

[Larrx]

Thanks Giant!

[NotNale]

Common sense from Roy?

I'm afraid this may come back to haunt the Order. I fear that being able to raise Durkon (or not being able to raise Durkon) could be pivotal in the upcoming confrontation.

Edited to add: Beautiful artwork in this one. The scenery is great.

[ChillerInstinct]

I wonder what the odds are of a Dwarf cleric giving them a pro bono Resurrection once the Order, you know, saves them from an eternity with Hel. :P I mean, Resurrection ain't cheap, but under the circumstances...

[Shining Wrath]

"One time I scrubbed the mold out of the Guild showers and it dropped 2d4 copper pieces and a potion of Fire Resistance".

Hilarious.

And Roy now refers to the corpse of his best friend as "The Vampire", who is not Durkon, who he still hopes to resurrect. Now that his common sense is not clouded by a dozen tiny druids casting Obscuring Mist of feels.

[Sniper Jo]

I think the fact that she specifies "2d4 cp" rather than "5 cp" or whatever made this joke exponentially funnier.

[Zenima]

That Haley would suffer a mild rash just from the event occurring makes me wonder what exactly would happen to her if she was forced to watch the money change hands.

Not that I would force her. That seems much too cruel and unusual even for Xykon.

[Auburn Bright]

This is a nice little update. I always liked Roy and Haley's friendship.

[dtilque]

Haley's point about the all-you-can-eat is right! It should have included all-you-can-drink too. That place was run by a real cheapskate, you know, someone like ... er ... Haley...

[busterswd]

Huh, updated literally as I was looking at the site. Nice morning surprise.

[Shining Wrath]

I wonder what the odds are of a Dwarf cleric giving them a pro bono Resurrection once the Order, you know, saves them from an eternity with Hel. :P I mean, Resurrection ain't cheap, but under the circumstances...

On the other hand ... DWARF cleric. The race that stereotypically loves gold just a wee bit less than their mothers.

[Ivrytwr]

Haley gets some of the best lines!
Roy get a little personal growth.
Plus a really pretty page!
Thanks Giant.

[aurilee]

The line about the mould was great. I'm glad there's still the occasional D&D joke thrown in every now and again. :smallsmile:

It's also incredibly practical for mould to have fire resistance. sort of

[zql]

I really liked the panel with Haley and Roy looking at the landscape :smallsmile:

[Shining Wrath]

For some reason, between panel 6 and panel 7 Roy and Haley turn from facing into the ship, to facing off the ship.

[Carl]

Damm so much feels, and so much funny too. Haley don't ever change.

[SquirrelKing]

Nothing like some good ol' fashioned character development! I like the progression of Roy's logic and acceptance. Plus the moment with him and Haley looking out over the railing was a nice touch.

[Arkku]

How appropriate that the shower mold drops potions of fire resistance. =)

[hroþila]

Heh, vintage OotS! It's special and heart-warming, like watching your favourite band play your favourite song off their first album, even though you like their newest stuff better.

[EccentricFellow]

Wahahahahaha! That killed me. I always found it bizarre to be encountering rats and slime and etc that are all hauling around gold pieces and other crap. Haley totally nailed it! Gold pieces and a potion from scrubbing the bathroom - priceless! Heh, thanks for that chuckle.

[Glorfindel]

Budget Flight? They must be flying with Royanair ...

[RedSand]

Well, clearly the shower mold was gearing up for an intense, years long war with the fire mold growing in the swamp out back.

[Shining Wrath]

Wahahahahaha! That killed me. I always found it bizarre to be encountering rats and slime and etc that are all hauling around gold pieces and other crap. Haley totally nailed it! Gold pieces and a potion from scrubbing the bathroom - priceless! Heh, thanks for that chuckle.

Rats ... with pockets? :smallsmile:

[Jay R]

I think they should consider "hiring" a NPC cleric....

The cost of hiring NPCs is exactly the difficulty they are referring to.

[Bedinsis]

Look at Roy being rational here. I wonder if budgetary reasons will be the reason Belkar won't ever be resurrected. That in combination with some other reason, in such a case, because I refuse to believe that Roy would not raise Belkar to save on money.


Budget Flight? They must be flying with Royanair ...

Legit laugh.

[Kantaki]

The Order is short on money right now?
I just hope no one of the crew (Andi) gets the idea to stir up trouble by demanding more.

Roy’s and Haley’s adventurer logic is great.
Why worry about the funds? The things they are going to fight are going to drop enough gold to make up for it.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Yeah, that's why I like to have a bit in the bank even after a spending spree. Also looks like Roy's mind is, well, clear again. Also also, it's good to see some of Haley's humor again.

[IDrankWHAT]

WOO HOO! Birthday OOTS! It's like the Giant did it today ESPECIALLY for me! :smallbiggrin:

LOL I know he didn't, I just thought it would be awesome if he posted a new OOTS on my birfday!

*AHEM* Being a former building and apartment maintenance man (glorified custodian), I've cleared out all sorts of pipes and found many a coin in the p-trap (little bendy thing on the bottom of your sink that goes out to the sewers for those that don't know) and other pipes! Found a ring or two as well! Nothing like a potion of fire resistance. Although I found a wet rag in there....that technically would be fire resistance...for a bit.

[Killer Angel]

adventurers are always on a budget! :smallbiggrin:

[Esprit15]

What Roy forgets is that sometimes that treasure type is None.

[Neoriceisgood]

I wish mold dropped gold, I'd be a wealthy man indeed ...

[ti'esar]

This was both funny and sad.

Though I think it's a pretty safe bet that Durkon will be back somehow, monetary issues or not.

[pendell]

2d4 copper and a potion of fire resistance?

Congrats, Giant. That made me grin when I most needed it. :)

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[LastCenturion]

Very nice comic, Giant. Just dropping in to give my 2d4 copper pieces and potion, but I can especially relate to the "budget crisis" idea of adventuring. A few days ago, my party's leader decided to spend all of our gold on scrolls of raise dead, ending in us not being able to afford an inn for several weeks.

[rman]

"One time I scrubbed the mold out of the Guild showers and it dropped 2d4 copper pieces and a potion of Fire Resistance".

Hilarious.



Not quite depends what type of mold it was.

Brown, yellow, slime, .... there could be more to "scrubbed" than she is saying.

[KorvinStarmast]

For some reason, between panel 6 and panel 7 Roy and Haley turn from facing into the ship, to facing off the ship.If you go from frame first to last, there are a number of changes in camera angle. Giant shot this scene with multiple cameras.

1 is from the front of the ship looking aft, toward the starboard quarter
2-5 from outside the ship looking in. (camera hanging outside the Starboard side, looking in)
6 from the port side looking across the ship to the starboard rail
7-8 from outside starboard side looking in again
9 port to starboard again
10-11 starboard side looking in.

(Presumes the left edge of panel 1 is bow of ship. If not, if left is stern of ship, swap all references above).

Either that, or Roy and Haley did a lot of running back and forth between perspective changes.

[Psyren]

While this was amusing, I find it a little foreboding that we're establishing the Order to be strapped for cash. That foreshadowed mutiny is looking even more likely now...

[Havelocke]

great shout out to level one players everywhere! Clean out those slimes! I still never understood how they haul their treasure around...ew. Thank you for the great scene with Haley and Roy thinking about Durkon.

[SavageWombat]

I'm just going to be lazy and ask someone to remind me why Haley needs to buy a dagger in a hurry?

[Kantaki]

I'm just going to be lazy and ask someone to remind me why Haley needs to buy a dagger in a hurry?

She and Bandana fought the Crystal-Golem in Tinkertown and were a bit under equiped.
Haley might have payed a wee bit to much. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0976.html)

[rman]

I'm just going to be lazy and ask someone to remind me why Haley needs to buy a dagger in a hurry?

Dagger purchased right here -
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0976.html

[acire]

I'm just going to be lazy and ask someone to remind me why Haley needs to buy a dagger in a hurry?
She needed to buy a adamantine dagger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0976.html) in a hurry in Tinkertown to fight Crystal.

EDIT: ninja'd

[AvangionQ]

I wouldn't mind a random encounter right about now ... the team needs a little win before the bigger battles to come ...

[Castamir]

On the other hand ... DWARF cleric. The race that stereotypically loves gold just a wee bit less than their mothers.
That's for good-aligned dwarves. Neutral and evil ones have that order of priorities reversed.

[Anarion]

I guess nobody told Roy about the rule from Final Fantasy that the endgame airship is typically immune from random encounters. :smallamused:

[Shining Wrath]

So I wonder how much walking-around money Thor typically carries if they have another non-random encounter with him? :smalltongue:

[Keltest]

That's for good-aligned dwarves. Neutral and evil ones have that order of priorities reversed.

You think evil dwarves cant love their mothers?

[Kantaki]

I guess nobody told Roy about the rule from Final Fantasy that the endgame airship is typically immune from random encounters. :smallamused:

Good thing they aren't in a Final Fantasy based story.:smallamused:
And even then there would be enough random encounters in the last dungeons to give every party-member- and the crew of the airship- enough looot to buy a kingdom.

[Vikenlugaid]

I just laughed so hard with the first panels :smallbiggrin:

[Jaxzan Proditor]

While I hope lack of funds isn't the reason we don't see Durkon ever again, it could be a reason why Belkar dies and stays dead. Here's hoping, now that we're done with the Godsmoot, to see Team Evil again!

[Kantaki]

You think evil dwarves cant love their mothers?

Not as much as GOLD I would wager.

[Ron Miel]

On the other hand ... DWARF cleric. The race that stereotypically loves gold just a wee bit less than their mothers.

No, they just say that to get it into bed.

[malloyd]

No, they just say that to get it into bed.

My dating memories are getting dim, but I can't imagine "I love you a wee bit less than my mother" seducing me into bed....

[Vio]

Ah, the loot tables...

Remember when locust swarms in Diablo 2 used to drop battle axes and full plate armor? :)

[Kantaki]

My dating memories are getting dim, but I can't imagine "I love you a wee bit less than my mother" seducing me into bed....

Maybe it only works on GOLD(elementals)?:smallamused:

[Ruck]

Ahh, I love that feeling. Checked the index at lunch, no new comic. Bummed. Then 30 minutes later, new comic announced! Hooray!


Common sense from Roy?

I'm afraid this may come back to haunt the Order. I fear that being able to raise Durkon (or not being able to raise Durkon) could be pivotal in the upcoming confrontation.

Edited to add: Beautiful artwork in this one. The scenery is great.

It definitely may, but I think the more important thing is how this represents Roy's development-- a real understanding of what's at stake and a willingness to put his personal relationships and feelings aside to, you know, save the world.


I wonder what the odds are of a Dwarf cleric giving them a pro bono Resurrection once the Order, you know, saves them from an eternity with Hel. :P I mean, Resurrection ain't cheap, but under the circumstances...

Well, they need money for the material component even if the cleric doesn't want money, right? I guess we can assume they still have some diamonds they were planning to use in the first place.


Wahahahahaha! That killed me. I always found it bizarre to be encountering rats and slime and etc that are all hauling around gold pieces and other crap. Haley totally nailed it! Gold pieces and a potion from scrubbing the bathroom - priceless! Heh, thanks for that chuckle.
I get a kick out of Kingdom of Loathing using meat as its currency for exactly this reason.

[ti'esar]

While this was amusing, I find it a little foreboding that we're establishing the Order to be strapped for cash. That foreshadowed mutiny is looking even more likely now...

Andi was the only one who wasn't really happy last comic. I'm inclined to think there will be no mutiny as such.

[gooddragon1]

Haley reminds me of Nami from One Piece with the comments about money.

[Alyse Luciel]

I had a bard who would clasify dragons by average treasure instead of colour.

[ChillerInstinct]

Well, they need money for the material component even if the cleric doesn't want money, right? I guess we can assume they still have some diamonds they were planning to use in the first place.



I would assume that on-duty temple Clerics probably have a couple diamonds lying around in case somebody comes knocking on their door willing to give generously to the temple if they could solve their corpse problem. Diamonds are expensive, but I'd assume they'd still be money ahead.

[Mido]

Ah, Roy learning established, more things remain the same the more they changed established, line about random encounters keeps the dnd rules/mechanics/tropes jokes alive check.

Cannot stop laughing at that last one. :smallbiggrin:

[Enero Irontoad]

I wonder if the vampire still has the one Resurrection's worth of diamond dust (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0845.html). Probably best not to count on looting it from his corpse, but we can hope.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Halley's reaction when Roy mentions the resurrection money.

It made me really sad.

[Fitzclowningham]

Look at Roy being rational here. I wonder if budgetary reasons will be the reason Belkar won't ever be resurrected. That in combination with some other reason, in such a case, because I refuse to believe that Roy would not raise Belkar to save on money.



That is an extremely plausible observation.

[nyjastul69]

Nice comic. Ummm... Roy... 'None' is a listed treasure type. What the hell are you talking about?

[Darth Paul]

... I have to go clean my bathroom now.

[skim172]

Reminds of an old webcomic I read once. The party wins a random encounter and picks up a glowing black magical sword as random loot. The defeated enemy goes, "Wait, I had a sword?! Why was I using this tiny dagger then?"

[Bulldog Psion]

Ah, the loot tables...

Remember when locust swarms in Diablo 2 used to drop battle axes and full plate armor? :)

Yes, now that you mention it! :smallbiggrin: In fact, I remember specifically looking for them so that my character could smite a cloud of bugs and have a suit of armor pop out with a resounding clang. Always hilarious! :smallwink:


... I have to go clean my bathroom now.

Me too. :smallwink: And the "2d4" really makes the joke superb.

I have to wonder, though -- does this mean Durkon will never live again? His "rescue" consists of actually dying and his soul going to Thor's halls, while his body is laid to rest among his ancestors' tombs?

[Reboot]

Vampires don't leave corpses...

...which really makes me wonder about the sheer logistics of resurrecting Durkon. Would they need to quickly shove a jar over the redead'd vampire to catch the smoke?

[Steveio]

Vampires don't leave corpses...

...which really makes me wonder about the sheer logistics of resurrecting Durkon. Would they need to quickly shove a jar over the redead'd vampire to catch the smoke?

With Resurrection, you can revive a dead creature so long as you have a piece of them from when they died, no matter how small. While the vampire wouldn't leave a corpse, it still would leave dust. And even a pinch of that dust could be used.

[Lordchoculla]

WOO HOO! Birthday OOTS! It's like the Giant did it today ESPECIALLY for me! :smallbiggrin:

LOL I know he didn't, I just thought it would be awesome if he posted a new OOTS on my birfday!

*AHEM* Being a former building and apartment maintenance man (glorified custodian), I've cleared out all sorts of pipes and found many a coin in the p-trap (little bendy thing on the bottom of your sink that goes out to the sewers for those that don't know) and other pipes! Found a ring or two as well! Nothing like a potion of fire resistance. Although I found a wet rag in there....that technically would be fire resistance...for a bit.

:smallbiggrin:
I will now never again look at wet rags in the same way.... will it attack me or should I make a search in order to find its treasures?

Anyway, wonderful comment. Thanks! And happy birthday to you from Denmark.
:smallbiggrin:

[Bird]

I like the beat in the bottom left panel, switching to the view of Haley & Roy from behind, followed by a mood shift to Roy & Haley being happy. Nice pacing.

*

Haley's accounting doesn't reference the fact that the Order has gobs of magic items, many of which are worth far more individually than the cost to pay off the whole crew of the Mechane. I can't imagine any member of the Order** prioritizing their loot above resurrecting Durkon. Even Belkar would give up his fancy psionic dagger to get Stubbles von Smackhammer back.

Even if the crew is unhappy with the inconvenience of getting an item instead of gold--just give them quadruple the value you promised. Or multiple items. Whatever. Even in Andi's case--could she really want 200gp more than an item that's worth more than that by orders of magnitude?

I suppose it's possible they'll hand over the resurrection money if they can't rez Durkon anyway right away for other reasons.

**Well, maybe Blackwing. :smallwink:

[Bluepaw]

A vintage D&D joke, aged like a fine wine! Ahhhhhhhh.

[goodpeople25]

I guess nobody told Roy about the rule from Final Fantasy that the endgame airship is typically immune from random encounters. :smallamused:
Which one are you thinking of?:smallconfused:
Cause from the FF games i have played/know of i don't remember endgame airships really being immune to random encounters.
There were airships without random encounters sure, but they either were singular or all the airships had it so not really endgame.
Though the endgame airship in the one i'm playing now does have advantages in free healing and having extra damage per turn from cannons so it is pretty safe but still random encounters happen.

On topic great strip. And i find the mittens the pirate in the background has on oddly adorable.

[Lkctgo]

Hmm... mild rashes when left untreated, usually turn into something worse.

[Messenger]

Just chiming in how I too love the ending joke of this update. It's so silly and light, it's a refreshing break from the heavy stuff (however really good) the comic has been going through.

It also makes you wonder: adventurer at home, sets up an ordinary mousetrap, does the trap actually pay for itself? Do pest exterminators make good money in D&D-based worlds thanks to extra loot?* And the other logical conclusion of the joke: sure, you get loot from killing mundane pests, but don't the pests sometimes turn out to be fantastic as well? (Meaning, for example, a cockroach problem in your kitchen turns out to be giant cockroaches trying to take over your house? But this question has long already been answered: YES. :smallbiggrin:)

* Perhaps an idea for a small, light adventure: PCs could use a side quest/spare cash, hire themselves out as exterminators for the fantasy version of a "bug hunt".

[Lordchoculla]

Just chiming in how I too love the ending joke of this update. It's so silly and light, it's a refreshing break from the heavy stuff (however really good) the comic has been going through.

It also makes you wonder: adventurer at home, sets up an ordinary mousetrap, does the trap actually pay for itself? Do pest exterminators make good money in D&D-based worlds thanks to extra loot?* And the other logical conclusion of the joke: sure, you get loot from killing mundane pests, but don't the pests sometimes turn out to be fantastic as well? (Meaning, for example, a cockroach problem in your kitchen turns out to be giant cockroaches trying to take over your house? But this question has long already been answered: YES. :smallbiggrin:)

* Perhaps an idea for a small, light adventure: PCs could use a side quest/spare cash, hire themselves out as exterminators for the fantasy version of a "bug hunt".


Hmm... "Do pest exterminators make good money in D&D-based worlds "... they will, if they also are adventures, right? If they are not, they will not.... :smallsmile:

[Quebbster]

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z115/Scavenger68/boil%20an%20anthill.jpg

[Garwain]

That Haley would suffer a mild rash just from the event occurring makes me wonder what exactly would happen to her if she was forced to watch the money change hands.
Yes, what would happen if she watched large bags of gold blow up in an explosion? I'm betting on some mental 'snap' rendering her speechless.

[kaoskonfety]

She needed to buy a adamantine dagger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0976.html) in a hurry in Tinkertown to fight Crystal.

EDIT: ninja'd

Actually her need of a melee weapon appears to be more a 980 issue - Crystals dagger is destroyed in the fight with Bozzok. Adamant weapons (which I think she still has?) are good but a bit lacking in actual bonuses.

[Havelocke]

I believe the shorn part of Durkon's beard will be important (if they kept it) to resurrect him. Unfortunately our favorite halfling is bald, so unless someone plucks a hair off of his foot I do not see Belkar coming back after his death.

[Reboot]

Actually her need of a melee weapon appears to be more a 980 issue - Crystals dagger is destroyed in the fight with Bozzok. Adamant weapons (which I think she still has?) are good but a bit lacking in actual bonuses.

At the same time, she's first and foremost a ranged fighter - unless there's conditions like the first Miko fight, or her bow is actively unavailable/destroyed, she's never going to recourse to the dagger unless she can't avoid it. The adamantine dagger should be fine for "rare backup". Especially with the wands she got in Tinkertown also available.

(See Roy for comparison, who absolutely needs a ranged backup weapon to go with his sword...)

[Legoshrimp]

I believe the shorn part of Durkon's beard will be important (if they kept it) to resurrect him. Unfortunately our favorite halfling is bald, so unless someone plucks a hair off of his foot I do not see Belkar coming back after his death.

This is only true if he dies in a way that doesn't leave a corpse. I think we know he is going to either be permadead, or an undead of some sort.

Is there any way he could not die, but stop needing to breathe? Maybe he gets polymorphed into a fern.

[PallentisLunam]

Ahh, more treasure table jokes :smallbiggrin: beautiful

[Havelocke]

I would love to see him be reincarnated into a construct like a warforged....they do not need to breathe and he would a total bad-ass as a construct! Belkar, the sexy shoeless wood and metal god of war!

[rman]

(See Roy for comparison, who absolutely needs a ranged backup weapon to go with his sword...)

But Roys sword is capable of functioning as a ranged weapon -
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1019.html

Hmm. Belt of Giant strength + Backpack full of 2H swords and specialty thrown weapons. Or just giants with lots of 2H swords.

[LordRahl6]

Haley reminds me of Nami from One Piece with the comments about money.

The only difference is that Nami would Literally Pound your skull in if money disappeared without accounting for it ESPECIALLY Her Money. As opposed to Haley who reaction to the lose of money seems milder. But that's probably just the difference in stories and professions.:smallwink:

[PallentisLunam]

But Roys sword is capable of functioning as a ranged weapon -
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1019.html

Hmm. Belt of Giant strength + Backpack full of 2H swords and specialty thrown weapons. Or just giants with lots of 2H swords.

Tangent for a moment. How the hel, did Durkula counterspell Thor's Lightning? He shouldn't be able to cast it and isn't it an area spell anyways?

[Hamste]

Tangent for a moment. How the hel, did Durkula counterspell Thor's Lightning? He shouldn't be able to cast it and isn't it an area spell anyways?

Thor's lightning is probably just a fancy name for lightning which he could still cast. Even if it wasn't he could counter spell with greater dispel magic and what the spell does doesn't really matter for countering.

[Shoelessgdowar]

I believe the shorn part of Durkon's beard will be important (if they kept it) to resurrect him. Unfortunately our favorite halfling is bald, so unless someone plucks a hair off of his foot I do not see Belkar coming back after his death.

Since when? Belkar has a fine layer of red stubble atop his head... always has.

[xroads]

This does bring up a question that I've been wondering. During the negotiation, why didn't Roy :roy: just turn around to Haley :haley: and ask her to step in? Haley has proven to be a shrewd negotiator and probably could of come out with a much better deal.

[PallentisLunam]

This does bring up a question that I've been wondering. During the negotiation, why didn't Roy :roy: just turn around to Haley :haley: and ask her to step in? Haley has proven to be a shrewd negotiator and probably could of come out with a much better deal.

Because Roy is the leader and Haley probably would have bluffed the crew which would have gotten the Order into even more unnecessary shenanigans.

[IDrankWHAT]

I believe the shorn part of Durkon's beard will be important (if they kept it) to resurrect him. Unfortunately our favorite halfling is bald, so unless someone plucks a hair off of his foot I do not see Belkar coming back after his death.

I thought the same exact thing about his Durkon's Beard!

[Manty5]

I thought the same exact thing about his Durkon's Beard!

I think that both that and the Chekhov's gun in this episode (lack of finances) is going to play a role in Durkon's and Belkar's fates. What it may boil down to is a situation where both Durkon and Belkar face permadeath and the party's only going to have the resources to save one.

[Keltest]

Thor's lightning is probably just a fancy name for lightning which he could still cast. Even if it wasn't he could counter spell with greater dispel magic and what the spell does doesn't really matter for countering.

Thor's Lightning may be a renamed version of a Domain spell, but Durkon's domains almost certainly changed with his god.

[rman]

This does bring up a question that I've been wondering. During the negotiation, why didn't Roy :roy: just turn around to Haley :haley: and ask her to step in? Haley has proven to be a shrewd negotiator and probably could of come out with a much better deal.

Bringing Haley to a negotiation like that is like using a cannon in a duel. Haley would have the crew paying for the privileged of ferrying the OOTS. Roy is LG and so does the right thing and makes sure his assistants are paid a reasonable wage.

[Doug Lampert]

I believe the shorn part of Durkon's beard will be important (if they kept it) to resurrect him. Unfortunately our favorite halfling is bald, so unless someone plucks a hair off of his foot I do not see Belkar coming back after his death.


Resurrection
[Stuff]
The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death.

You can't use hair, blood, or anything else removed prior to death to resurrect someone. Hence Belkar's baldness is largely irrelevant to his resurrect-ability, you couldn't use anything removed prior to the time of death anyway. [For Durkon, you could presumably use something removed post-mortem but prior to the destruction of the vampire.]

[Manty5]

Thor's Lightning may be a renamed version of a Domain spell, but Durkon's domains almost certainly changed with his god.

But perhaps not all that much. His other iconic spell, Thor's Might was replaced with a direct analogue, Hel's Might.

His new domain might be a mirror of his old one,,, or at least enough of a mirror to allow direct counterspelling.

[Keltest]

But perhaps not all that much. His other iconic spell, Thor's Might was replaced with a direct analogue, Hel's Might.

His new domain might be a mirror of his old one,,, or at least enough of a mirror to allow direct counterspelling.

Divine Might is on the cleric spell list without any domains necessary, much like Control Weather.

[Mx56]

Divine Might is on the cleric spell list without any domains necessary, much like Control Weather.
Indeed, as is Dispel Magic (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Dispel_Magic), which can be used to counterspell spells that the Cleric cannot personally cast.

[PallentisLunam]

Then wouldn't he say Dispel Magic instead of Counterspell?

Dear god. You'll need to link to the srd not dndwiki if you want anyone to take you seriously

[Laurana]

I liked this one very much, thank you Giant!

It even makes the previous strip a lot more meaninglful.

The dialogue was good and the punchline spectacular.

[Kamunami]

I think the fact that she specifies "2d4 cp" rather than "5 cp" or whatever made this joke exponentially funnier.

Haha, I came here just to say this!

[skim172]

I believe the shorn part of Durkon's beard will be important (if they kept it) to resurrect him. Unfortunately our favorite halfling is bald, so unless someone plucks a hair off of his foot I do not see Belkar coming back after his death.

Hmm... makes me wonder about the ramifications of the Resurrect spell. Could you use the hair or nail clippings or disembodied hand of a living individual to create another clone of that being? Sure, they won't have a soul, but you might still be able to generate a living soulless clone.

[Keltest]

Then wouldn't he say Dispel Magic instead of Counterspell?

Dear god. You'll need to link to the srd not dndwiki if you want anyone to take you seriously

no. Counterspelling has always been done by saying Counterspell.

[PallentisLunam]

no. Counterspelling has always been done by saying Counterspell.

But in the hypothetical he's not Counterspelling. He is casting Dispel Magic and using its counterspell version.

[Keltest]

But in the hypothetical he's not Counterspelling. He is casting Dispel Magic and using its counterspell version.

...

Yes, that's what counterspelling is.

[ellindsey]

Hmm... makes me wonder about the ramifications of the Resurrect spell. Could you use the hair or nail clippings or disembodied hand of a living individual to create another clone of that being? Sure, they won't have a soul, but you might still be able to generate a living soulless clone.

The resurrection spell specifically states that the soul of the person being resurrected has to be free and willing to return to the body. If they're still alive, it won't be. It also states that the body part you use has to have been part of the body at the time of death, so taking hair or other tissue samples from a living person and trying to cast resurrection with them won't do any good even if that person has since died.

[goodpeople25]

Divine Might is on the cleric spell list without any domains necessary, much like Control Weather.
Divine Might? :smalltongue:
I assume that's supposed to be Righteous Might, due to context. But it could just as easily be Divine Power I suppose.

[Keltest]

Divine Might? :smalltongue:
I assume that's supposed to be Righteous Might, due to context. But it could just as easily be Divine Power I suppose.

Yeah, that. I don't play clerics often.

[PallentisLunam]

...

Yes, that's what counterspelling is.

No it's not? :smallconfused:

Dispel Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm), which has a specific use that lets it attempt to counterspell any other spell.

vs.

Normal Counterspelling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#counterspells)

Edit: Unless you're suggesting that every "Counterspell" we've seen in the comics has been the counterspelling use of Dispel Magic

[Jasdoif]

No it's not? :smallconfused:

Dispel Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm), which has a specific use that lets it attempt to counterspell any other spell.

vs.

Normal Counterspelling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#counterspells)

Edit: Unless you're suggesting that every "Counterspell" we've seen in the comics has been the counterspelling use of Dispel MagicThe comic doesn't distinguish between the methods.

[pendell]

Here's a thought for dealing with the budget issues; go see if we can get a map of various black dragon lairs between here and the destination, stop in at each to see if familicide struck there. If it did, free loot!

As a bonus, this also allows Vaarsuvius to go on an even bigger guilt trip, especially if there are family photos or what not as well as conventional treasure, which I consider a bit of a bonus.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[aurilee]

Here's a thought for dealing with the budget issues; go see if we can get a map of various black dragon lairs between here and the destination, stop in at each to see if familicide struck there. If it did, free loot!

As a bonus, this also allows Vaarsuvius to go on an even bigger guilt trip, especially if there are family photos or what not as well as conventional treasure, which I consider a bit of a bonus.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Poor V. :smallfrown: (not that he doesn't deserve to feel guilty, because he totally does, I just think he's tortured himself enough at this point)

On the other hand, it is a pretty good plan for getting loot assuming that most of the dragons don't fall into any of these categories:


They were on another adventuring party's hitlist at the time of the spell (in which case the adventurers probably found the already-dead dragon by now)
They're in close proximity to a village, in which case curious villagers may go check out why there hasn't been any dragon sightings lately (or they might have been in the process of doing the pitchforks thing, which would also lead to them finding treasure)
They're located on the final level of a dungeon, in which case there's pretty much a guarantee that another adventuring party would have already been progressing through the dungeon at the time of the familicide and have probably gotten the loot (or are closer than the Order), whether they know about the dragon or not


Unfortunately, that's probably most black dragons.

The real question is...with all this liberated treasure entering the market at once, will there be inflation on jewels and gold?

[PallentisLunam]

Clearly not otherwise Durkula wouldn't have been able to cast whichever spell it was that required diamond dust because if the dust had been devalued then the spell would have fizzled.

[aurilee]

Clearly not otherwise Durkula wouldn't have been able to cast whichever spell it was that required diamond dust because if the dust had been devalued then the spell would have fizzled.

Is it really the monetary value of the diamond dust that determines the amount needed? I would have thought it was the physical properties that determined the physical components, as well as the amounts (like in non-magical chemistry)...Especially since monetary value (and scarcity) can fluctuate without familicide spells and that would make the required physical components of any spell a shot in the dark.

EDIT: Also, inflation doesn't happen instantaneously. I would think there would be a couple months at least after the treasure enters the markets for there to be a real effect (although I'm no economist).

[kaoskonfety]

Is it really the monetary value of the diamond dust that determines the amount needed? I would have thought it was the physical properties that determined the physical components, as well as the amounts (like in non-magical chemistry)...Especially since monetary value (and scarcity) can fluctuate without familicide spells and that would make the required physical components of any spell a shot in the dark.

As per 'RAW' - for what that's worth? " x GP worth of Y " is fairly standard. No accommodation is given for diamond dust in a setting where diamonds grow on trees and people use the dust on mortar to help it set and resist wear and 1000gp worth could fill a lake, silver prices in a setting where it literally does not exist or similar issues.

[Jasdoif]

Is it really the monetary value of the diamond dust that determines the amount needed?Yes...or rather, the game is already tracking monetary values, and assumes that diamond dust is valuable enough by weight that it isn't worth the trouble of tracking the weight, so the rules skip the middleman and assign requirements by gold piece value. Or, if you prefer, the round numbers of the cost requirements for diamond dust, and the (in-universe) non-arbitrary nature of material spell components, could easily mean that diamond dust is the monetary standard against which gold pieces are valued in the first place.

But in the case of OotS-world, the effect is somewhat more literal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0677.html).

[Kish]

Is it really the monetary value of the diamond dust that determines the amount needed?
In this humorous webcomic, yes.

Obviously in a more serious D&D game, the DM is expected to take into account things like "diamond are far more plentiful here, so the material component of a Resurrection costs less" or "diamonds are nearly impossible to get here, if you want a Resurrection you'll be hunting down a dragon and taking diamonds from their hoard, not just strolling into a shop and buying them"--or rather, the other way around, the most likely reason for an adjustment to diamond prices is the DM wanting to make Resurrection easier or harder.

[aurilee]

See, rules-wise that makes sense (with a stable currency, it's easier to acquire/keep track of "X GP of diamond dust" than "X grams of diamond dust", and requiring the players/DM to make cost calculations on top of that when in shops). But practically, a magic spell needs a physical component because of its physical characteristics. The forces of magic are not tied to arbitrary currencies like GP. A recipe could call for "$5 of eggs", but that doesn't mean that 80 years ago, people were putting whole baskets of eggs into one cake, but these days you only need 10.

THAT BEING SAID Jasdoif is correct in that the OotS universe is clearly strict with the rules and the magical forces do care about the current monetary value of the ingredients.

So my updated headcanon on this is that at the time the diamond dust was used, the ripple effect from the treasure influx hadn't happened yet.

EDIT: @Kish - Yeah, I was more going for an "in an actual campaign" type thing regarding the requirements for physical components. The comic is naturally a different beast, and it's been shown to adhere to the letter of the law with little to no exceptions. I just wasn't sure how strictly that kind of thing was enforced in actual games (I never ran into that situation myself).

[PallentisLunam]

See, rules-wise that makes sense (with a stable currency, it's easier to acquire/keep track of "X GP of diamond dust" than "X grams of diamond dust", and requiring the players/DM to make cost calculations on top of that when in shops). But practically, a magic spell needs a physical component because of its physical characteristics. The forces of magic are not tied to arbitrary currencies like GP. A recipe could call for "$5 of eggs", but that doesn't mean that 80 years ago, people were putting whole baskets of eggs into one cake, but these days you only need 10.

THAT BEING SAID Jasdoif is correct in that the OotS universe is clearly strict with the rules and the magical forces do care about the current monetary value of the ingredients.

So my updated headcanon on this is that at the time the diamond dust was used, the ripple effect from the treasure influx hadn't happened yet.

EDIT: @Kish - Yeah, I was more going for an "in an actual campaign" type thing regarding the requirements for physical components. The comic is naturally a different beast, and it's been shown to adhere to the letter of the law with little to no exceptions. I just wasn't sure how strictly that kind of thing was enforced in actual games (I never ran into that situation myself).

Well, the familicide spell was cast months ago. At least long enough for the Draketooth family to be naturally mummified.

Also I the line "But practically, a magic spell" to be quite humorous :smalltongue: just like assertions about how magic works other than the rules we are explicitly given for it. That may be how it works in your worlds/campaigns but there is no objective measure of how magic works.

[Grey Watcher]

Not as much as GOLD I would wager.

There's a line from Terry Pratchett which I shall butcher paraphrase: Any highwayman demanding a dwarf's money or his life had better be prepared with a chair and a good book for while the dwarf makes up his mind.

[aurilee]

Well, the familicide spell was cast months ago. At least long enough for the Draketooth family to be naturally mummified.

Also I the line "But practically, a magic spell" to be quite humorous :smalltongue: just like assertions about how magic works other than the rules we are explicitly given for it. That may be how it works in your worlds/campaigns but there is no objective measure of how magic works.

Ha, clearly I've been skimping on my daily dose of real life lately. :smallwink:

As I mentioned before, I tend to think of the physical components of magic (in D&D at least) like chemistry, where they have certain properties that interact in a specific way with "magical energy". Of course it's equally correct to state that there's a metaphysical concept of worth/currency and that when you give up a certain amount of gold (or other commodity), it imbues the item you receive with a certain level of energy that if needed for a certain spell.

And I totally don't spend my spare time theorising on various magic systems and comparing/contrasting the systems of different fantasy settings/works.

Regarding the timing...part of the time since the familicide spell also had to be spent getting to the treasures, I allot at least 2 months for a critical mass.

[Kantaki]

There's a line from Terry Pratchett which I shall butcher paraphrase: Any highwayman demanding a dwarf's money or his life had better be prepared with a chair and a good book for while the dwarf makes up his mind.

:smallconfused:Wouldn't running shoes be a better idea in that situation?:smallconfused:

[PallentisLunam]

As I mentioned before, I tend to think of the physical components of magic (in D&D at least) like chemistry, where they have certain properties that interact in a specific way with "magical energy". Of course it's equally correct to state that there's a metaphysical concept of worth/currency and that when you give up a certain amount of gold (or other commodity), it imbues the item you receive with a certain level of energy that if needed for a certain spell.

And I totally don't spend my spare time theorising on various magic systems and comparing/contrasting the systems of different fantasy settings/works.

I agree with you 100% for the purposes of my worlds, and I find such a view more fun to play with casters become easier to explain and you don't have to work as hard at not looking behind the curtain. I also like the idea of the sacrifice of a certain amount of wealth, but I think in OOTSverse the reason is just based on lampooning the rules. :smallbiggrin:

[Grey Watcher]

It's a bit of a side note, but this is my favorite writeup on the subject of "X GP worth of something" as a metric for spell reagents.

http://projectmultiplexer.com/2014/09/27/fiat-magic-reagents-the-god-of-the-market-and-modrons/

[Skull the Troll]

Wahahahahaha! That killed me. I always found it bizarre to be encountering rats and slime and etc that are all hauling around gold pieces and other crap. Haley totally nailed it! Gold pieces and a potion from scrubbing the bathroom - priceless! Heh, thanks for that chuckle.

Whenever I would DM I would total up the non-looty monsters of a given type about and put it in a nest or some such. Usually in some non coin form, like a distinctive skull that if taken sells for the right amount of treasure at any given town.

[aurilee]

I agree with you 100% for the purposes of my worlds, and I find such a view more fun to play with casters become easier to explain and you don't have to work as hard at not looking behind the curtain. I also like the idea of the sacrifice of a certain amount of wealth, but I think in OOTSverse the reason is just based on lampooning the rules. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, well the OotS-verse is a special lawful neutral plane where the rules are enforced and embraced in all their loony glory. :smalltongue:


It's a bit of a side note, but this is my favorite writeup on the subject of "X GP worth of something" as a metric for spell reagents.

http://projectmultiplexer.com/2014/09/27/fiat-magic-reagents-the-god-of-the-market-and-modrons/

That was awesome. Especially the modrons. Gotta love the modrons. If someone ever runs a campaign that takes place during the Great Modron Marketing Survey, I want to be in it.

[8BitNinja]

I'm pretty sure dipping into the resurrection funds is.something Mr. Welch is not allowed to do

Roy is Mr. Welch confirmed

[skim172]

The resurrection spell specifically states that the soul of the person being resurrected has to be free and willing to return to the body. If they're still alive, it won't be. It also states that the body part you use has to have been part of the body at the time of death, so taking hair or other tissue samples from a living person and trying to cast resurrection with them won't do any good even if that person has since died.

Which raises all sorts of metaphysical implications. Because clearly the soul is in charge of the resurrection process, but the body itself is the vital component. This means then that the conscious soul that moves onto the afterlife must be inextricably tied by unknown forces to the physical matter of the flesh. The body is not merely a container, but a vital component of the being - yet, it is one that is completely left behind. Furthermore, the body itself is not merely an assemblage of molecules indistinguishable from other molecules in the environment, but something completely and fundamentally unique. My pinky finger is no mere wad of tissue and blood - it contains something special that is Me - but if it should be sliced off, then it loses that Me-ness.

And the fact that it has to be a part of the body at the time of death leads to additional questions - because it means something about the act of death transforms the very nature of the body. My pinky finger sliced from my living tissue has no essential tie to my soul - but a few minutes later, after the dragon has shredded my body and spat my pinky out, that pinky is now imbued with the power to bring me back from the dead.

And what does it mean for Durkon's walking corpse? The instant Resurrection is cast on his body, the vampiric parasite is banished and Durkon returns. But what if we cut off Durkon's pinky finger and cast Resurrection on it? Clearly, the Resurrection spell is designed not just to resurrect but also regenerate the missing parts and pieces from the tiny scraps. So Durkon's new body will grow out of the pinky - but what happens to the original body - the one inhabited by the vampire?

And finally, how large does this body part have to be? Because if the D&D world is anything like ours, bodies decay. Bodies get turned into soil and dust. The soil you're standing on might very well include a few molecules from a dead T-Rex - will casting Resurrect on it bring back that T-Rex, along with any other once-living things whose ex-molecules happened to inhabit that clump of soil?

And what about that chicken I ate for dinner briefly before the dragon killed me? When my cleric friend revives the remnants of my torso, with the freshly-eaten KFC family meal in my stomach, will I awaken with three chickens buckawing inside my digestive tract?

Gentlemen, these are the questions we MUST ask. For SCIENCE.

[Liquor Box]

In a DnD type society, it seems to me that death would be insurable.

You pay premiums throughout your adventuring career, and the insurer is liable to raise you in the event of your death. Your premiums would be influenced by your level, but also various other factors. You could get a no claims bonus if you don't die for a while.

If you purchase platinum cover the insurer will retreive your body from a dungeon in the event of a total party kill.

[JoeyTheNeko]

rules joke and character development, sweet.

[Pyrous]

Gentlemen, these are the questions we MUST ask. For SCIENCE.

And that MUST NOT be answered. For MAGIC.

[Darth Paul]

And what about that chicken I ate for dinner briefly before the dragon killed me? When my cleric friend revives the remnants of my torso, with the freshly-eaten KFC family meal in my stomach, will I awaken with three chickens buckawing inside my digestive tract?

You're not the first to ask these questions. Roy, from the afterlife, filled the intro to Don't Split The Party with ponderings of this kind, mainly because, as a dead person, he had nothing better to do than think up questions like this. At least, until about 20% into the book.


I'm pretty sure dipping into the resurrection funds is.something Mr. Welch is not allowed to do

Roy is Mr. Welch confirmed

Mr. Welch also must not put the Thunder God on the spot again (http://theglen.livejournal.com/16735.html). (It's #95.) So I guess Roy can't ask Thor any awkward questions, should they ever meet?

[Necris Omega]

Hmmm... I do like this strip's humor, but there's just this obnoxious gnawing at the back of my mind. Do these numbers add up? ...

Assuming our Airship has a Queen Anne's Revenge level staffing, 200g / Air Pirate... That still doesn't seem like all that much for a party of this level. And expenses are to be expected, but this just doesn't work for me.

Maybe I'm just overly sensitive after seeing too many plotlines try to "raise the stakes!" by magically bankrupting the hero in fairly demented ways. Granted "stuff costs money" is infinitely less demented than "and then they... ROBBED... the stockmarket! of all it's STOCKS!!!" but this still is more jarring then beneficial. Even if someone is able to lay out the realities - average party gold at this level adjusted for depictions as shown in the campaign thus far, projected costs of each character's expenditures, and provide a full financial OotS statement of accounting in OCD levels of detail, the fact that this just kind of fell out of the blue and needed justification in that sense is still a weakness.

Look. We've an (technically two completely separate) undead horrors providing unspeakably grave threats to the entire world, the drama of betrayal and a lost cleric to hash through, a prophesied death and major revenge plot sitting in Belkar's lap, a new and exciting sword mechanic for Roy, and a whole lot else. Some internal drama with the stupid greedy air pirates is fine, but this went places I find more distracting than anything. I guess this is to try and inject some grounded reality back into the swing of things, but all this really does is make me ask questions about niggling functional details generally best ignored or glanced over.

[M.A.D]

Is it really the monetary value of the diamond dust that determines the amount needed?

Yes, yes it is. That's how spells work in OOTS. Basically if the spell requires 10'000 gp worth of diamonds, and you bought the same amount for 9000, then you better go back and buy more (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0677.html).

[8BitNinja]

Mr. Welch also must not put the Thunder God on the spot again (http://theglen.livejournal.com/16735.html). (It's #95.) So I guess Roy can't ask Thor any awkward questions, should they ever meet?

And Roy cannot be a burning dwarf berserker that is a light source

[factotum]

Well, the familicide spell was cast months ago. At least long enough for the Draketooth family to be naturally mummified.

In strip #842 Durkon says of the Draketooth family: "They've been dead 'least a fortnight, but there's precious little decay." Later in the same strip Haley points out that the family was killed the same day Roy was resurrected, which Roy says "would fit with Durkon's time frame", thus agreeing it's around 2 weeks since his resurrection at that point. It's less clear how much time has elapsed since that point, though, but we know it must be less than 5 weeks because Belkar's prophecy hasn't come true yet (Roy said it would be 7 weeks for the prophecy when he was talking to Haley immediately after his resurrection).

[Kish]

In a DnD type society, it seems to me that death would be insurable.

You pay premiums throughout your adventuring career, and the insurer is liable to raise you in the event of your death. Your premiums would be influenced by your level, but also various other factors. You could get a no claims bonus if you don't die for a while.

If you purchase platinum cover the insurer will retreive your body from a dungeon in the event of a total party kill.
While I appreciate that real-world players have a tendency to treat clerics as "the class that casts those spells" with no other baggage, as far as actually living and dying in a D&D-based world, it shouldn't be ignored that everyone who can resurrect the dead is a high-ranking member of the clergy, and the gods are likely to have an opinion on a de facto rule becoming "rich people never die of anything but old age."

[KorvinStarmast]

While I appreciate that real-world players have a tendency to treat clerics as "the class that casts those spells" with no other baggage, as far as actually living and dying in a D&D-based world, it shouldn't be ignored that everyone who can resurrect the dead is a high-ranking member of the clergy, and the gods are likely to have an opinion on a de facto rule becoming "rich people never die of anything but old age."
Given that the rich people tend to build temples and shrines, they more or less buy their stairway to heaven.

If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now ... it's just a spring clean for the May Queen ...

... or a druid about to lay the smackdown on some orcs.

[Keltest]

While I appreciate that real-world players have a tendency to treat clerics as "the class that casts those spells" with no other baggage, as far as actually living and dying in a D&D-based world, it shouldn't be ignored that everyone who can resurrect the dead is a high-ranking member of the clergy, and the gods are likely to have an opinion on a de facto rule becoming "rich people never die of anything but old age."

Depends on the god. A god of merchants would probably love this idea.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Yay, new comic. Also like the idea of a mold randomly having a potion of fire resistance.
It makes up for having to deal with the copper pieces.

Although, to be fair, they don't seem to be as useless as modern pennies. Typical peasants get a silver piece per day, if I recall correctly, so...assume wages equivalent to $1 modern dollars per hour and a working-day of ten hours per day, seven days a week, a copper piece is roughly equivalent to $7 by that reckoning. A copper piece can buy a single candle or torch, a mug of ale is four, five of them buy a ladder, and messengers charge two coppers per mile. That actually sounds like a decent approximation.


While this was amusing, I find it a little foreboding that we're establishing the Order to be strapped for cash. That foreshadowed mutiny is looking even more likely now...
However you look at it, adventurer "strapped for cash" is not typical-NPC "strapped for cash". Most NPCs are fine with wages of a few gold pieces per month. A party of adventurers can easily spend a year's worth of NPC pay in a single evening at a tavern, even without needing to bribe any potential plot hooks. Haley has jewelry worth more than the treasury of most nobles. 200 gold per person is enough to forestall the mutiny indefinitely.


Clearly not otherwise Durkula wouldn't have been able to cast whichever spell it was that required diamond dust because if the dust had been devalued then the spell would have fizzled.
If diamond dust was devalued, sure. However, most people looting dragons' hoards can't grind diamonds themselves, and few would have reason to. Diamond prices changing might have some indirect effect, but it would be weakened by reluctance to grind up these newfound diamonds and the fact that relatively few dragons' hoards have any diamonds (as opposed to other gemstones), let alone enough to meaningfully alter the local supply.
On the other hand, if gold suffered dragon-hoard inflation, it would increase the value of the diamond dust. I would expect more gold-inflation than diamond-inflation, let alone diamond-dust-inflation.


Also, inflation doesn't happen instantaneously. I would think there would be a couple months at least after the treasure enters the markets for there to be a real effect (although I'm no economist).
It depends. Locally, the effects could be felt in less than a day, if the dragons' hoard was looted quickly enough. The ripples could easily spread quickly, especially if some nobleman or what-have-you teleported in to buy some cheap jewels.


In a DnD type society, it seems to me that death would be insurable.
I'm trying to figure out what kind of premiums that would be. Keeping a high-level cleric on call would probably cost hundreds if not thousands of gold pieces per month, and hiring them to actually cast the spell would be another several thousand gold. If we assume the firm has a hundred customers and, between a resurrection or two per month, additional expenses of several thousand more gold per month (between the cleric's on-call fees, other employees, transport, repair or replacement of garments...), each customer would probably need to pay a few hundred gold every month. That's...pretty good, actually. And if only a few percent of the customers died per month, economies of scale could reduce that average to less than 200 gold per month!
I'm sure most adventurers would be willing to pay 500 or even 1,000 gold per month for death insurance by the time mooks start wielding magic weapons, especially for that platinum service. So the only reasons I can think of for those services not to exist are a complete lack of powerful religious figures willing to use their powers for profit (HAH!) or a lack of sufficient customers to make the service viable. Probably the latter, actually.



While I appreciate that real-world players have a tendency to treat clerics as "the class that casts those spells" with no other baggage, as far as actually living and dying in a D&D-based world, it shouldn't be ignored that everyone who can resurrect the dead is a high-ranking member of the clergy, and the gods are likely to have an opinion on a de facto rule becoming "rich people never die of anything but old age."
Considering how few rich people die of other things and the fact that there is literally a revolving door in heaven, I don't think the gods would be all that bothered about it.


-snip-

Gentlemen, these are the questions we MUST ask. For SCIENCE.
Science isn't just about asking questions. You need to be able to answer them, too, or at least design experiments to answer them.

Figuring out why body parts can't bring you back if sliced off before death, but they can if sliced off after death, would probably require some sort of expensive divination equipment that only the most prestigious magical academies could afford...except whenever they start investigating it, some fundamentalist clerics complain because they're trying to learn Hel's trade secrets.
Considering how often magic creates stuff out of nothing, I don't see a problem with having two Durkon bodies.
You couldn't resurrect a T. rex from a pinch of soil. First off, there are plenty of dinosaurs running around in a typical campaign world, so one of the basic assumptions implicit in your question is faulty. Second, and more importantly, you need to be able to clearly and unambiguously identify the creature you're trying to resurrect; unless you know a specific creature who died and that some of his remains became the soil you picked up, you're SOL. Third and most problematically, resurrection can only bring people back to life who have been dead for 10 years per caster level or less; I don't think even the gods have several million cleric levels!
Finally, as for the chickens (or the spare dinosaurs), you can't resurrect more than one creature per spell. Nice try.




Look at Roy being rational here. I wonder if budgetary reasons will be the reason Belkar won't ever be resurrected. That in combination with some other reason, in such a case, because I refuse to believe that Roy would not raise Belkar to save on money.
Possibly something to do with the fact that, even if he's now a well-mannered murderous midget, he's still a murderous midget. One or two steps backwards and I can see Roy not caring to bring Belkar back.
Or he could end up in an afterlife he likes.


This does bring up a question that I've been wondering. During the negotiation, why didn't Roy :roy: just turn around to Haley :haley: and ask her to step in? Haley has proven to be a shrewd negotiator and probably could of come out with a much better deal.
Roy realizes the crew has a point. Being a nice guy, he decided to pay them what they deserve.
Also, having a rogue bluff the crew out of compensation would be bad in the long run.


Hmmm... I do like this strip's humor, but there's just this obnoxious gnawing at the back of my mind. Do these numbers add up? ...
When was the last time the Order got any loot? I can see them starting to run dry.



On the other hand ... DWARF cleric. The race that stereotypically loves gold just a wee bit less than their mothers.
And the dwarves we've seen fit that stereotype about as well as a certain real-world group with that stereotype.
...Actually, any real-world group with that stereotype. Except maybe bankers.


WOO HOO! Birthday OOTS! It's like the Giant did it today ESPECIALLY for me! :smallbiggrin:
LOL I know he didn't, I just thought it would be awesome if he posted a new OOTS on my birfday!
All sorts of people do special things on my birthday! One of the perks of being born on a major international holiday.


I had a bard who would clasify dragons by average treasure instead of colour.
Black: Triple Standard
Blue: Triple Standard
Brass: Triple Standard plus lecture from paladin


Hmm... makes me wonder about the ramifications of the Resurrect spell. Could you use the hair or nail clippings or disembodied hand of a living individual to create another clone of that being? Sure, they won't have a soul, but you might still be able to generate a living soulless clone.
Wizards can. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm)


The comic doesn't distinguish between the methods.
And there's one argument ended. Bravo.

[Lord Cuvis]

In a DnD type society, it seems to me that death would be insurable.

You pay premiums throughout your adventuring career, and the insurer is liable to raise you in the event of your death. Your premiums would be influenced by your level, but also various other factors. You could get a no claims bonus if you don't die for a while.

If you purchase platinum cover the insurer will retreive your body from a dungeon in the event of a total party kill.

Now I'm imagining the clergy of some god with an unusual portfolio (healing and greed?) running a fantasy version of DocWagon from Shadowrun. And it's something I need to use somewhere.

[PallentisLunam]

In strip #842 Durkon says of the Draketooth family: "They've been dead 'least a fortnight, but there's precious little decay." Later in the same strip Haley points out that the family was killed the same day Roy was resurrected, which Roy says "would fit with Durkon's time frame", thus agreeing it's around 2 weeks since his resurrection at that point. It's less clear how much time has elapsed since that point, though, but we know it must be less than 5 weeks because Belkar's prophecy hasn't come true yet (Roy said it would be 7 weeks for the prophecy when he was talking to Haley immediately after his resurrection).

Huh, natural mummification in the real world takes longer than that. Ahh well.

[kaoskonfety]

Now I'm imagining the clergy of some god with an unusual portfolio (healing and greed?) running a fantasy version of DocWagon from Shadowrun. And it's something I need to use somewhere.

I've seen a setting where the god of healing was lawful evil - easy access to HP healing was framed as evil cosmicly as it encourages violence by removing it main drawback (healing time/death) and was part of the gods general shtick of "take the easiest way out/screw patience". Most cleric lists had everything above "cure minor wounds" removed and domain access was the only way to get the HP healing spells above cantrips (or be a bard...).

The fact that this meant the clergy could then take coin for sitting on their butts casting the occasional spell was just bonus sauce. The fact that this left the church as a whole richer than stink and quietly controlling much of the settings politics... well, it was a good time.

[F.Harr]

There you go Roy! Get into the spirit of the thing!

[GreatWyrmGold]

I've seen a setting where the god of healing was lawful evil - easy access to HP healing was framed as evil cosmicly as it encourages violence by removing it main drawback (healing time/death) and was part of the gods general shtick of "take the easiest way out/screw patience". Most cleric lists had everything above "cure minor wounds" removed and domain access was the only way to get the HP healing spells above cantrips (or be a bard...).

The fact that this meant the clergy could then take coin for sitting on their butts casting the occasional spell was just bonus sauce. The fact that this left the church as a whole richer than stink and quietly controlling much of the settings politics... well, it was a good time.
Interesting.
Though, typical D&Dconomics mean that either healing costs next to nothing for adventurers, or those healing temples would basically only be able to serve adventurers, nobles, and the richest merchants.

[Seward]

In a DnD type society, it seems to me that death would be insurable.

You pay premiums throughout your adventuring career, and the insurer is liable to raise you in the event of your death. Your premiums would be influenced by your level, but also various other factors. You could get a no claims bonus if you don't die for a while.

If you purchase platinum cover the insurer will retreive your body from a dungeon in the event of a total party kill.

Yes, I've actually seen this kind of thing in-game. A note on a body saying "take me to temple XXX and there is a 1000gp reward". At the temple he's got 10k in diamond dust banked, plus the cost of the spellcasting and the reward.

In Pathfinder Society organized play, corpse retrievals are a perk you can use your Prestige with the society to obtain, should your fellows be so rude as to leave you behind or get TPKd. It's also in-game canon, as PC parties are very often sent out to see what happened to the last pathfinder (or team of pathfinders) that vanished or stopped reporting in. (I have characters that warn NPC's that killing us is pointless, because a stronger team will just get sent to investigate. It's easier just to go along and let us study the ancient site, that'll get us to go away eventually)

[8BitNinja]

In a DnD type society, it seems to me that death would be insurable.

You pay premiums throughout your adventuring career, and the insurer is liable to raise you in the event of your death. Your premiums would be influenced by your level, but also various other factors. You could get a no claims bonus if you don't die for a while.

If you purchase platinum cover the insurer will retreive your body from a dungeon in the event of a total party kill.

A whole new meaning to life insurance

[Berserk Knight]

In a DnD type society, it seems to me that death would be insurable.

You pay premiums throughout your adventuring career, and the insurer is liable to raise you in the event of your death. Your premiums would be influenced by your level, but also various other factors. You could get a no claims bonus if you don't die for a while.

If you purchase platinum cover the insurer will retreive your body from a dungeon in the event of a total party kill.

That reminds me of Drizzt and that pesky little Malchor Harpell from Baldur's Gate 2... :smallfurious:
...Then again, meh. Not really angry at that guy. Not really.
I always carried around a custom item that works in multiple stages so that it first removes ALL methods of invulnerability that NPCs employ (I literally checked every single NPC and script there is), then kill them using every single known method. Then it does the entire process one more time, just in case.
Just for annoying little pricks like those.

...Okay, I lied. I deployed that thing VERY liberally.

[PallentisLunam]

You could actually kill Drizzt in... one of the BG games I think maybe 2, Just by turning down the pathing and putting the party in a specific spot with ranged weapons.

He had some pretty sweet loot.

[Keltest]

You could actually kill Drizzt in... one of the BG games I think maybe 2, Just by turning down the pathing and putting the party in a specific spot with ranged weapons.

He had some pretty sweet loot.

U usually just let the gnolls kill him in 1. It takes a bit to get it, but if you approach it just right, he wont fight them back.

[HandofShadows]

Ah good old D&D jokes with character. :smallbiggrin::smallcool:

[Berserk Knight]

You could actually kill Drizzt in... one of the BG games I think maybe 2, Just by turning down the pathing and putting the party in a specific spot with ranged weapons.

He had some pretty sweet loot.

Yes, you could kill him in both.
It's just that if you kill him in BG1, the Big Bad of BG2 ninjas all your loot when the game begins.
You can also kill him in in BG2 even if you did so back in BG1, but that prick Harpell comes and ninjas all your Drizzt loot AGAIN, and instakills you if you somehow manage to get around him enough times.

[8BitNinja]

You could actually kill Drizzt in... one of the BG games I think maybe 2, Just by turning down the pathing and putting the party in a specific spot with ranged weapons.

He had some pretty sweet loot.

Whenever there is a main character from anything in an RPG, everyone tries to kill him, even if you're Lawful Good

I'm pretty sure they did an episode on that on The Spoony Experiment subseries, Counter Monkey

[PallentisLunam]

Whenever there is a main character from anything in an RPG, everyone tries to kill him, even if you're Lawful Good

I'm pretty sure they did an episode on that on The Spoony Experiment subseries, Counter Monkey

Because they always have epic gear!

And to see if the writers even allow for it.

[8BitNinja]

And to see if the writers even allow for it.

In one of the Ultima games, you could kill Lord British

Take that Richard Garriott!

[Lord Cuvis]

In one of the Ultima games, you could kill Lord British

Take that Richard Garriott!

There's *always* a way to kill Lord British.

[Darth Paul]

In a DnD type society, it seems to me that death would be insurable...
<snip>
If you purchase platinum cover the insurer will retreive your body from a dungeon in the event of a total party kill.

In the "Battlelords of the 23rd Century" RPG, we ran an outfit called 'Klondike Biomed Armored Rescue'- basically a heavily armed group of combat medics who were put on retainer by various mercenary groups to perform hot-zone extractions, healing and resuscitation for the wounded and even the dead. In that setting, the right drugs could bring you back to life if applied soon enough.

Our slogan was "What would you do for a Klondike B.A.R.?"

[PallentisLunam]

In the "Battlelords of the 23rd Century" RPG, we ran an outfit called 'Klondike Biomed Armored Rescue'- basically a heavily armed group of combat medics who were put on retainer by various mercenary groups to perform hot-zone extractions, healing and resuscitation for the wounded and even the dead. In that setting, the right drugs could bring you back to life if applied soon enough.

Our slogan was "What would you do for a Klondike B.A.R.?"

:smallbiggrin: That is so beautiful.

[8BitNinja]

In the "Battlelords of the 23rd Century" RPG, we ran an outfit called 'Klondike Biomed Armored Rescue'- basically a heavily armed group of combat medics who were put on retainer by various mercenary groups to perform hot-zone extractions, healing and resuscitation for the wounded and even the dead. In that setting, the right drugs could bring you back to life if applied soon enough.

Our slogan was "What would you do for a Klondike B.A.R.?"

In my RPG, Futurequest, reviving someone is something that a medic does every Tuesday and Thursday. They just stab the dead guy with a needle filled with a hormone similar to adrenaline, it is even called adrenaline.

Unfortunately, this can only be successful if there are enough brain cells left for the rest of the patient's organs to function.

[kaoskonfety]

Interesting.
Though, typical D&Dconomics mean that either healing costs next to nothing for adventurers, or those healing temples would basically only be able to serve adventurers, nobles, and the richest merchants.

If I recall "cure light" was affordable for craftsmen/middle class, so if you got injured on the job you could get back into it quickly for a couple days pay (moderate silver pieces costs based on their ability to pay). Fluff wise most of their day-to-day income came from this sorta thing. Anything higher scaled fast and was generally only available for kings, generals and adventurers. Of course if your master mason needed his hand regenerated they could certainly make arrangements - but we will need you for this cathedral project for the next 5 years, your prayers to the great god 3 times a day and that you spread the word of the miracle we have wrought for you to all you meet. A pittance really, for you hand and livelihood restored *GEAS*

Lawful evil is the best evil.

[Fii]

The Oracle predicted this!


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html

Durkon would return to his dwarven homeland- posthumously.

[PallentisLunam]

The Oracle predicted this!


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html

Durkon would return to his dwarven homeland- posthumously.

https://akminerva.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/captain-obvious-1024x377.jpeg

[yldenfrei]

And what does it mean for Durkon's walking corpse? The instant Resurrection is cast on his body, the vampiric parasite is banished and Durkon returns. But what if we cut off Durkon's pinky finger and cast Resurrection on it? Clearly, the Resurrection spell is designed not just to resurrect but also regenerate the missing parts and pieces from the tiny scraps. So Durkon's new body will grow out of the pinky - but what happens to the original body - the one inhabited by the vampire?
I think the part about Durkula is that the soul is still locked inside that vampire-controlled body, and therefore not eligible for Resurrection. As with the usual vampire stuff, the body must first be vanquished before the soul is freed, right?

[Legoshrimp]

https://akminerva.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/captain-obvious-1024x377.jpeg


I was expecting.
https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Slowpoke.jpg

[PallentisLunam]

I think the part about Durkula is that the soul is still locked inside that vampire-controlled body, and therefore not eligible for Resurrection. As with the usual vampire stuff, the body must first be vanquished before the soul is freed, right?

Yes, as per the Resurrection spell.



I was expecting.
https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Slowpoke.jpg

Well now that Durkon is dead and going home it is rather obvious that he is fulfilling his prophesy, but both memes fit.

[littlebum2002]

The Oracle predicted this!


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html

Durkon would return to his dwarven homeland- posthumously.


https://akminerva.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/captain-obvious-1024x377.jpeg

Also, Darth Vader is really Luke's father!

[Legoshrimp]

Also, Darth Vader is really Luke's father!

Wow...Spoiler alert.

[PallentisLunam]

Also, Darth Vader is really Luke's father!

Not cool, bro. Not cool.

[Legoshrimp]

Also, Darth Vader is really Luke's father!

What are you going to say next. That Tarquin is Elan's father?





https://akminerva.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/captain-obvious-1024x377.jpeg
I was expecting.
https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Slowpoke.jpg

[8BitNinja]

Also, Darth Vader is really Luke's father!

NOOOOOOOOOO!

That's impossible!

[Kantaki]

NOOOOOOOOOO!

That's impossible!

It's really impossible. After all Vader is his mother.:smallbiggrin:

[PallentisLunam]

Spoilers for the win (http://darthsanddroids.net/episodes/1152.html). No seriously spoilers if you ever want to read Darths and Droids.

[martianmister]

Spoilers for the win (http://darthsanddroids.net/episodes/1152.html). No seriously spoilers if you ever want to read Darths and Droids.

Now that's clever. :smalleek:

[Ron Miel]

Also, Darth Vader is really Luke's father!

Darth Vader can't be Luke Skywalker's father. They don't have the same last name.

It's a quote from Cheers.

[skim172]

Also, Darth Vader is really Luke's father!

Pfft. Next you'll be saying that billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne is really Batman.

[Knaight]

While I appreciate that real-world players have a tendency to treat clerics as "the class that casts those spells" with no other baggage, as far as actually living and dying in a D&D-based world, it shouldn't be ignored that everyone who can resurrect the dead is a high-ranking member of the clergy, and the gods are likely to have an opinion on a de facto rule becoming "rich people never die of anything but old age."
Sure, but if the opinion is anything along the lines of "this helps the church get rich, I'm all for it" or "This helps me gain adherents because of the expanse of church power, I'm all for it" or anything like that , the same conclusions come through. Sadly, all of the fun real world examples of the medieval church are banned here.

[8BitNinja]

It's really impossible. After all Vader is his mother.:smallbiggrin:

And you are the father

[Darth Paul]

What are you going to say next. That Tarquin is Elan's father?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw2sex1mJNI

[goodpeople25]

Pfft. Next you'll be saying that billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne is really Batman.
Well technically he's A Batman. There have been others. So yeah he is totally not Batman.
That's not even going into where you place BruceWayne on the time line and alternate futures/dimensions, ect. :smallbiggrin:

[Ron Miel]

To be precise, he's the Goddam Batman.

http://i.imgur.com/PSlJ82N.png?1

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://i.imgur.com/V91iPc2.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/comments/21vlx1/im_the_goddamn_batman/&h=574&w=556&tbnid=g4ZeWzAsiK1kXM:&docid=a3rkcxWpDTWWlM&ei=4wL1VvXvBsbeU6DziIAI&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwi17beawdvLAhVG7xQKHaA5AoAQMwgeKAEwAQ

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/4852/953364-1239073137827.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.giantbomb.com/batman-arkham-asylum/3030-23245/forums/hes-the-goddamn-batman-and-his-game-was-awesome-265035/&h=900&w=1440&tbnid=ZLnx3tupOvp1NM:&docid=qL_Dyp7GS6e_FM&ei=4wL1VvXvBsbeU6DziIAI&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwi17beawdvLAhVG7xQKHaA5AoAQMwgmKAkwCQ

https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/177751516513565377/

https://7321-presscdn-0-57-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Goddamn-Batman.jpg


http://cdn.meme.am/instances/50333340.jpg

[Knaight]

To be precise, he's the Goddam Batman.

http://i.imgur.com/PSlJ82N.png?1

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://i.imgur.com/V91iPc2.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/comments/21vlx1/im_the_goddamn_batman/&h=574&w=556&tbnid=g4ZeWzAsiK1kXM:&docid=a3rkcxWpDTWWlM&ei=4wL1VvXvBsbeU6DziIAI&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwi17beawdvLAhVG7xQKHaA5AoAQMwgeKAEwAQ

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/4852/953364-1239073137827.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.giantbomb.com/batman-arkham-asylum/3030-23245/forums/hes-the-goddamn-batman-and-his-game-was-awesome-265035/&h=900&w=1440&tbnid=ZLnx3tupOvp1NM:&docid=qL_Dyp7GS6e_FM&ei=4wL1VvXvBsbeU6DziIAI&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwi17beawdvLAhVG7xQKHaA5AoAQMwgmKAkwCQ

https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/177751516513565377/

https://7321-presscdn-0-57-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Goddamn-Batman.jpg


http://cdn.meme.am/instances/50333340.jpg

Aaaand now he comes across like a poorly written shonen character, given the rather extended version of that catchphrase. This has been a productive post. Plus, the term "goddam", whether misspelling or euphamism, conjures up impressive images of massive architecture appropriate to RPG campaigns.

[Kish]

Sure, but if the opinion is anything along the lines of "this helps the church get rich, I'm all for it" or "This helps me gain adherents because of the expanse of church power, I'm all for it" or anything like that , the same conclusions come through. Sadly, all of the fun real world examples of the medieval church are banned here.
Without violating the forum rules, I'll just say that I'm pretty sure anyone, regardless of religious beliefs, should be able to think of reasons why examples of the medieval church aren't terribly relevant to a fantasy polytheist world with gods who have portfolios and grant spells.

[Doug Lampert]

Without violating the forum rules, I'll just say that I'm pretty sure anyone, regardless of religious beliefs, should be able to think of reasons why examples of the medieval church aren't terribly relevant to a fantasy polytheist world with gods who have portfolios and grant spells.

Yep, but in the case of the spells under discussion and discussion D&D land, ALL GODS GRANT THEM! Every one. And if you use the DMG demographics information, high level clerics are quite common, a surprisingly high percentage of all settlements have one or more.

So for the spells to be meaningfully restricted to anything other than "you got the cash, I got the slots" pretty well requires that both Corellon and Gruumsh agree that limiting the spells is smart. It requires that Erythnul and Pelor both think having their churches be poor rather than rich is a good idea. It needs Heironeous and Hextor to cooperate to maintain a monopoly.

Basically, the existence of a pantheon of gods with diverse portfolios and all granting the same spells means there are gods of commerce, who get these spells; and gods of wealth, who get these spells; and gods of greed, who get these spells; and gods of healing, who get these spells.

Someone will be willing to sell freely, and religions that aren't willing to sell freely are largely putting themselves at a competitive disadvantage. Healing and raising your own people FIRST, and maybe even at a discount, that makes sense, but "Nah, I'm not gonna help you, guess you'll just need to walk to another town where my god's hated rival is worshiped and join them" isn't a smart response to rich people or adventurers in D&D land.

[Jasdoif]

Someone will be willing to sell freely, and religions that aren't willing to sell freely are largely putting themselves at a competitive disadvantage. Healing and raising your own people FIRST, and maybe even at a discount, that makes sense, but "Nah, I'm not gonna help you, guess you'll just need to walk to another town where my god's hated rival is worshiped and join them" isn't a smart response to rich people or adventurers in D&D land.Exactly. Without also having the means to starve/crush/intimidate alternatives, relying on exclusivity has severe complications.

[DaggerPen]

Funny thing, a serial web story I read set in a setting that's basically "what would happen if you took the D&D type faux medieval world and progressed it to the 'modern' era" actually does have a form of 'life insurance' for the rich that's exactly this sort of thing. There are a few instances of people from rich families messing around with abandon precisely because they were so confident they would be resurrected (which worked out poorly when one got turned into a mouse and eaten by a cat. There's a certain level of intactness needed, after all...)

[Knaight]

Without violating the forum rules, I'll just say that I'm pretty sure anyone, regardless of religious beliefs, should be able to think of reasons why examples of the medieval church aren't terribly relevant to a fantasy polytheist world with gods who have portfolios and grant spells.

Also without violating rules, I'll just say that even if one looks at the medieval church from a strictly non-religious and historical perspective, it might provide a decent counter example to the idea that church behavior in a fantasy polytheist world wouldn't try for power and profit in various unscrupulous ways, particularly when it's already established that people can pay to have spells cast.

[Black Socks]

Plot advancement is cool, but it's nice to have a good old fashioned D&D joke once in a while.

[keybounce]

Yep, but in the case of the spells under discussion and discussion D&D land, ALL GODS GRANT THEM! Every one. And if you use the DMG demographics information, high level clerics are quite common, a surprisingly high percentage of all settlements have one or more.
I recall one comic where they were asking if there even was someone in this campaign that could cast a sufficiently powerful resurrection spell (sorry, it's been too long since I've played for me to list the different come-back-to-life spells)

[Ruck]

I recall one comic where they were asking if there even was someone in this campaign that could cast a sufficiently powerful resurrection spell (sorry, it's been too long since I've played for me to list the different come-back-to-life spells)
"Oooo! I bet Redcloak is 17th-level!" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0579.html)