March Sage Advice

[Iguanodon]

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-march-2016

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted here yet; it's been out for a few hours and has some interesting stuff about druids and spellcasting in it.


A few of my thoughts:

This was the right call on druids' nonmetal armor, I think, but I can't help but anticipate a flurry of druid PCs who eschew this code in order to seem unique. As far as I'm concerned, they can go sit with the chaotic good drow, beardless dwarves, and elves who sleep even though they don't have to.

Seriously, what is studded leather supposed to be? I was under the impression that it was meant to represent brigandine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigandine). However, brigandine contains metal plates and studded leather is listed as an example armor for druids.

[Safety Sword]

This was the right call on druids' nonmetal armor, I think, but I can't help but anticipate a flurry of druid PCs who eschew this code in order to seem unique.

The Druidic Order takes exception to you being an exception. Who do you think you are to flaunt your non-traditional values and still call yourself a druid?

[JackPhoenix]

Studded leather as presented in D&D historically never existed. It doesn't make any sense: few metal (or wooden, or bone, if you want to have it wearable by druids) studs have no effect for armor's protective value. The way it's described it's something like heavy metal leather jacket (http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=84963995): it looks cool, bit it's no armor. The leather is even mentioned as being soft...it would offer worse protection than boiled leather armor or padded gambeson. The studs driven through the leather would likely actually weaken the material and make it more prone to tearing (the last sentence is a speculation on my part)

The misconception propably started from seeing metal rivets on brigandine, however, the rivets aren't there for protection, they hold the metal plates hidden inside the armor in place, as you've noticed yourself. The closest thing D&D have to proper brigandine is ring mail...itself a weird armor. True brigandine would fit somewhere between mail and plate.


The Druidic Order takes exception to you being an exception. Who do you think you are to flaunt your non-traditional values and still call yourself a druid?

A dwarf. Screw the elves with their trees and flowers and animals and ****. Nature is more than that, here, have some lightning, earthquake and volcanic eruption as a bonus. Oh, and perhaps a tsunami if I have to get near water for some reason. But then, I call myself geomancer, not a druid. I just wish I could turn myself into elementals without having to howl at the moon, or whatever those types do.

[JumboWheat01]

As far as I'm concerned, they can go sit with the chaotic good drow, beardless dwarves, and elves who sleep even though they don't have to.

Hey, not all dwarves need a beard to be badass. It certainly helps, but it isn't a requirement.

Still, maybe it's because of playing the Neverwinter Nights series so much, but I don't really have anything against a druid wearing metal armor. Metal IS part of the natural world after all. Why would you exclude part of the natural world you swear to protect? Sounds a bit hypocritical to me. And druids obviously don't have a hatred for manufactured goods. Those weapons (especially scimitars, which have become one of those weird druidic weapons,) don't just pop out of nowhere, after all.

[Sigreid]

I think this is the first sage advice I've read that didn't have at least one item making me think "What a bunch of idiots". The only surprise was the metal armor thing, and I don't think of that as a big deal.

[TripleD]

Metal IS part of the natural world after all. Why would you exclude part of the natural world you swear to protect? Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

Metals are a part of nature, but they are often bound up in useless (to us at least) compounds which need to be refined before they can be used. Copper is relatively simple to get, but Bronze requires Tin which, with a few outstanding exceptions, never forms anywhere near Copper. Iron is rarer, and if you want to refine it into steel you're going to need charcoal or coal for the carbon and heat.

Mining for these metals is already a destructive process, and refining them can require cutting down trees for fuel. So I think it's less about the metal weapons themselves, and more what was done to obtain them.

It is a bit hypocritical (Druids aren't forbidden to eat foof from habitat destroying crop fields for example) but I can get the logic behind it.

[Naanomi]

My guess (and fluff explanation)
-humanoids have the capability of living in a 'natural' state; by the standards of 'natural' set by the nature spirits (or whatever) that empower Druidic power. Many (most in many settings) do not do so
-while the line between 'natural' and 'civilized' is hard to pin down; processing of metals on a large scale is as good a line to draw as any
--therefore Druids flaunting that perceived 'crossing the line' lose the favor of their spirit (or whatever) patrons
---weapons and some tools get a pass, because picking things up and hitting people with them is as 'natural' a humanoid trait as any

I realize it is homebrew and setting specific in some ways (depending on how Druids actually get their powers), but works for me. I do let dwarf Druids wear stone armor for what it matters

[SharkForce]

sage advice hasn't been particularly noteworthy for months. not surprised it took so long to get mentioned here... i can already read the books, i don't need someone else to read them for me, nor do i need anyone's permission to change things i don't like.

[Regitnui]

"The druid explodes." I am so doing that next session.

[Joe the Rat]

I'm surprised they didn't suggest the obvious "Can't wildshape while in metal armor," though that is a little left field for the 5e armor and magic limitations being reduced to "Proficient [Y/N]?"

[Pex]

Poor Dispel Magic. Nerfed hard from previous editions. Not useless but not as useful.

[bardo]

Metals are a part of nature, but they are often bound up in useless (to us at least) compounds which need to be refined before they can be used. Copper is relatively simple to get, but Bronze requires Tin which, with a few outstanding exceptions, never forms anywhere near Copper. Iron is rarer, and if you want to refine it into steel you're going to need charcoal or coal for the carbon and heat.

Mining for these metals is already a destructive process, and refining them can require cutting down trees for fuel. So I think it's less about the metal weapons themselves, and more what was done to obtain them.

It is a bit hypocritical (Druids aren't forbidden to eat foof from habitat destroying crop fields for example) but I can get the logic behind it.

Druids have nothing against metallurgy. Metallurgy makes the steel scimitars that druids love so much (and sickles, and daggers). There's no logic behind the restriction on metal armour, it's just tradition.

Bardo.

[Auramis]

The misconception propably started from seeing metal rivets on brigandine, however, the rivets aren't there for protection, they hold the metal plates hidden inside the armor in place, as you've noticed yourself. The closest thing D&D have to proper brigandine is ring mail...itself a weird armor. True brigandine would fit somewhere between mail and plate.

You're not wrong in assuming that, but I think it was less a misconception and more of a way for movie makers and costumers to save on budget when making movies at first. Lot easier to have what looked like brigantine armor rather than leather with plates. Harder to move in and far more expensive, so they create the studded leather as a substitute. Then after that, someone probably assumed studded leather was an actual thing.

[Theodoxus]

I'm surprised they didn't suggest the obvious "Can't wildshape while in metal armor," though that is a little left field for the 5e armor and magic limitations being reduced to "Proficient [Y/N]?"

I've never played a druid in D&D, but I had read over the metal restriction, and then looked exhaustively for a mechanical representation for it. Given there is none, and the fluff was absent until this SA, I kinda threw it out. My take isn't 'you can't wildshape' per se, but more 'any metal armor worn doesn't meld into you when you wildshape'.

Makes it more of a burden for the rest of the team. "Great, Gary wildshaped into a bear again, who's gonna carry his chain shirt this time?"

[JumboWheat01]

Makes it more of a burden for the rest of the team. "Great, Gary wildshaped into a bear again, who's gonna carry his chain shirt this time?"

Considering the size of an average humanoid's torso with that of a bear, wouldn't the chain shirt just go poof and fall apart? Or would it hold the shape and strangle the poor bear to the point it loose hit points, reverts back to humanoid form, and wasting the Wild Shape charge for the day.

...Now I have the disturbing mental image of a druid chucking off all its gear, standing (near) stark naked, and then changing.

[Oramac]

"The druid explodes." I am so doing that next session.

I laughed at that as well!

[RickAllison]

Considering the size of an average humanoid's torso with that of a bear, wouldn't the chain shirt just go poof and fall apart? Or would it hold the shape and strangle the poor bear to the point it loose hit points, reverts back to humanoid form, and wasting the Wild Shape charge for the day.

...Now I have the disturbing mental image of a druid chucking off all its gear, standing (near) stark naked, and then changing.

I'd say that's a feature of the ruling :smallwink:

[Theodoxus]

I'd say that's a feature of the ruling :smallwink:

The druid does explode, afterall :smallcool:

[Regitnui]

...Now I have the disturbing mental image of a druid chucking off all its gear, standing (near) stark naked, and then changing.

Disturbing? Don't you know druids are extremely fit for their race? I'd applaud it, actually. Kinda like Hayley and her trapfinding; the rogue says "oops, can't pick this lock, guess you have to wildshape into a bear and knock it down." The cleric says "all out of cure wounds for the day, guess you have to wild shape to regain hit points" then crosses herself.

[Coffee_Dragon]

We need to know how much damage the exploding druid does before we can properly weaponize this.

[JumboWheat01]

Disturbing? Don't you know druids are extremely fit for their race? I'd applaud it, actually. Kinda like Hayley and her trapfinding; the rogue says "oops, can't pick this lock, guess you have to wildshape into a bear and knock it down." The cleric says "all out of cure wounds for the day, guess you have to wild shape to regain hit points" then crosses herself.

But considering how "down to nature" they are, one would assume they lack standard societal hygiene practices. It could be a nightmare!


We need to know how much damage the exploding druid does before we can properly weaponize this.

...Why isn't there a Corpse Explosion spell? Necromancy could totally get down with that.

[Ace Jackson]

Druids have nothing against metallurgy. Metallurgy makes the steel scimitars that druids love so much (and sickles, and daggers). There's no logic behind the restriction on metal armour, it's just tradition.

Bardo.

Incidentally, while I will agree that the restriction on metal armor doesn't make sense,whenever metal weapons may be used at the same time. I will point out that in the old rules cyclopedia, an older source and about as good a place as any to cite traditions IMO, metal weapons were a no-no as well. Not because the shaping of metal made it "unnatural," that would preclude all leather armor and wood staves as well nor was the metal intrinsically "unnatural." It was because metal was never alive, and so was an aberration to the druidic sensibilities revolving around life and death cycles. Still an odd exception to pick, but in my opinion a little more sensible then the mere "natural" argument that's always assumed anymore. Of course the article also cites old sources, tradition can be a fickle thing. Although "The druid explodes." is an independent statement which I may, and will remove from context if it is sufficiently amusing to do so for the entire group.

In regards to how much damage, I'd suggest we start with the druid level hitdice as damage and work it out from there, up or down as appropriate.:smalltongue:

The shield continues to defy simple categorization, oh well, back to engaging in best judgement calls.

*Disclaimer, while the RC does say that '"Dead" things that have never been alive are repulsive to the druid(...)' it never cites exactly why beyond it never having been alive, druid cycle is just conjecture on my part having gone by memory.

[Regitnui]

But considering how "down to nature" they are, one would assume they lack standard societal hygiene practices. It could be a nightmare!


This is the middle ages (in most worlds). The Queen herself only bathed once a year for fear of being too clean. A druid probably enters a body of water more often than most city dwellers in the average D&D setting. Of course, if you're objecting on basis of body hair, firstly, its au naturale, secondly, closer to the standards of the average adventurer than you might think, and thirdly, there are some folk who are into that.

Also prestidigitation and depilate.

[JumboWheat01]

This is the middle ages (in most worlds). The Queen herself only bathed once a year for fear of being too clean. A druid probably enters a body of water more often than most city dwellers in the average D&D setting. Of course, if you're objecting on basis of body hair, firstly, its au naturale, secondly, closer to the standards of the average adventurer than you might think, and thirdly, there are some folk who are into that.

Also prestidigitation and depilate.

I accept most of that, but druids don't get Prestidigitation and its awesome clothes cleaning effect. And leather and hide armors aren't the most breathable, releasing the stink when they get taken off can be dangerous to halfling noses.

[Oramac]

...Why isn't there a Corpse Explosion spell? Necromancy could totally get down with that.


Completely off the top of my head and with no regards to balance:

Corpse Explosion

4th-level Necromancy

Casting Time: 1 action

Range: 60 feet

Components: V, S

Duration: Instant

You cause the corpse of a creature you can see within range to explode. In a cacophony of bones and organic matter, all creatures within 15 feet must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 2d6 piercing and 2d6 bludgeoning damage, or half damage on a successful save.

[bardo]

Incidentally, while I will agree that the restriction on metal armor doesn't make sense,whenever metal weapons may be used at the same time. I will point out that in the old rules cyclopedia, an older source and about as good a place as any to cite traditions IMO, metal weapons were a no-no as well. Not because the shaping of metal made it "unnatural," that would preclude all leather armor and wood staves as well nor was the metal intrinsically "unnatural." It was because metal was never alive, and so was an aberration to the druidic sensibilities revolving around life and death cycles. Still an odd exception to pick, but in my opinion a little more sensible then the mere "natural" argument that's always assumed anymore. Of course the article also cites old sources, tradition can be a fickle thing. Although "The druid explodes." is an independent statement which I may, and will remove from context if it is sufficiently amusing to do so for the entire group.

In regards to how much damage, I'd suggest we start with the druid level hitdice as damage and work it out from there, up or down as appropriate.:smalltongue:

The shield continues to defy simple categorization, oh well, back to engaging in best judgement calls.

*Disclaimer, while the RC does say that '"Dead" things that have never been alive are repulsive to the druid(...)' it never cites exactly why beyond it never having been alive, druid cycle is just conjecture on my part having gone by memory.

Fun and interesting trivia. Of course the druid isn't repulsed by rocks, water, or other minerals that don't participate in the life-death cycle. No prohibition on hurling stones or ice cubes from a sling. It's really hard to make sense of it without making the druid look disingenuous like an anti-capitalism protester with an iphone. Let's go with "the druid explodes" as the official reason. Players who think that's a myth can give metal armour a try and we'll see!

Bardo.

[Safety Sword]

...Now I have the disturbing mental image of a druid chucking off all its gear, standing (near) stark naked, and then changing.

As long as it's not a disturbing metal image. Druids don't know how to deal with that.

[Pex]

Druids are hippies. They aren't into Heavy Metal.

[JumboWheat01]

Druids are hippies. They aren't into Heavy Metal.

...Okay, I think you win that discussion hands-down.

[Regitnui]

I accept most of that, but druids don't get Prestidigitation and its awesome clothes cleaning effect. And leather and hide armors aren't the most breathable, releasing the stink when they get taken off can be dangerous to halfling noses.

That's what the wizard and/or scrolls are for. That white-bearded old man in the robe? Best beautician in the forest!

[JumboWheat01]

That's what the wizard and/or scrolls are for. That white-bearded old man in the robe? Best beautician in the forest!

...I now have the idea to design up a wizard who's ultimate goal is not having all the spells available to him, but making the world as clean and shiny as inhumanly possible. And all the trouble that would get him in with nature types.

"This tree is too dirty! Prestidigitation!"
"You fool! It's a tree, it's supposed to be dirty!"
"Prestidigitation!"
*suddenly hit by a bear*

[FightStyles]

Completely off the top of my head and with no regards to balance:

Corpse Explosion

4th-level Necromancy

Casting Time: 1 action

Range: 60 feet

Components: V, S

Duration: Instant

You cause the corpse of a creature you can see within range to explode. In a cacophony of bones and organic matter, all creatures within 15 feet must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 2d6 piercing and 2d6 bludgeoning damage, or half damage on a successful save.


Here is what I would edit (in bold) to make that more along the lines of a 4th level spell that I would use whenever possible.

You attempt to cause up to three dead corpses of creatures or living corpses or undead you can see within range to explode. The corpse must make a constitution saving throw against your spell DC. The corpse takes 2d6 force damage on a failed save, or half as much on a successful one. A dead corpse automatically fails the saving throw.

If the damage kills the corpse, the corpse explodes from inside. In a cacophony of bones and organic matter, all creatures within 10 feet must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 2d6 piercing and 2d6 bludgeoning damage, or half damage on a successful save.

[JoeJ]

Druids have nothing against metallurgy. Metallurgy makes the steel scimitars that druids love so much (and sickles, and daggers). There's no logic behind the restriction on metal armour, it's just tradition.

Bardo.

Traditions can last a very long time, though, and have a lot of social pressure behind them.

Here's one way it might make sense in world:

When the Tikonan empire conquered Welland, it was in part due to their superior metalworking technology, that allowed every Tikonan soldier to have the kind of armor that only the wealthiest of Wellander chieftains could afford. The conquerors, of course, took control of the mines and smelters, and so were able to maintain their advantage. For those resisting the occupation, their lack of metal armor became a point of pride; instead of being unable to obtain it, they claimed they were so tough they didn't need it. The druids were the main group organizing the resistance, and were brutally oppressed as a result. Some of them survived, however, hiding deep in the wilderness.

It has been centuries since the Tikonan Empire collapsed, but the druids still maintain their tradition of not wearing metal armor as a reminder of those dark days and of their survival.