Need Advice on DMing a Pathfinder Sky Piracy Adventure

[dascarletm]

Hello Everyone,

I'm going to be starting a game next week with my friends, and the theme is skypirates. I was hoping to get some advice or tips from anyone who has done something similar (regular pirate games will also be useful).

I'm going to be homebrewing a lot of new sky vessels/tweaking combat rules, I won't go into the details, but I have a few problems

1. How do you deal with players capturing other ships, selling them (with super high prices) and blowing their WBL out of the water?
2. With the price of ships so high how do you justify so many being available? It seems like any faction with a few ships would need to be extremely rich.
3. Are there any other things I should watch out for that I haven't thought of yet?

Thanks

[Geddy2112]

1. Make ships hard to capture- sure, the party might be able to attack and kill all of the crew of a ship, but then what? How are they going to crew it? What about the damage the ship will take in the process? What about the damage their ship takes?

A warship is 25,000 gp, but it requires a crew of 80 people to row. Unless the party are expert sailors with favorable winds, a small group of adventurers has no way to operate one. At higher levels this an be done but this is out of the reach of the party, for a while.

2. Not all ships are in brand spanking new condition, and the retail value factors in labor, casting, etc. All things considered, a ship makes no more relative profit than a longsword or a barrel or any other item. Unless the PC's are capturing first rate new frigates they will be bringing in aged, used, and probably battle scarred boats. Some might only be worth scrap/salvage, or the cost to repair the damage offsets any major profit a seller would have. Also, not all ships are created equal. Not everyone will have warships, lots of smaller keelboats and similar will be around.

3. Read the skulls and shackles adventure path if you have not already. Also, is there hard land? Is it also in the sky? Does falling mean instant death? Beware the effects of magical flight and similar abilities. Likewise, druids or other casters capable of influencing the weather will matter more in this style of game.

[dascarletm]

Thanks for the advice. I was thinking I could have them sell for less than half, and that's very good justification.

I don't have skulls and shackles, but I might have to pick it up.

There is land, but this world is high magic so items of feather fall should be fairly ubiquitous for skyfaring folk.
I'll have to see how strong weather conditions effect flying vessels.

[Geddy2112]

Thanks for the advice. I was thinking I could have them sell for less than half, and that's very good justification.

Treat ships like cars in our day and age. The minute you drive a new car off the lot it loses value. Depreciation is a harsh mistress, so an old ship is going to be worth less than a new one, even in good condition. Of course, some rare cars and models are worth a fortune, so you should have your rare ferari's and old muscle cars of the sailing world. Those 1 of magical ships of legend kind of thing.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Geddy2112
…sure, the party might be able to attack and kill all of the crew of a ship, but then what? How are they going to crew it? What about the damage the ship will take in the process? What about the damage their ship takes?

This. Taking another ship isn't like a knife fight in an alley. After a fierce ship-to-ship engagement, both vessels will most likely be badly battered and in need of sustained repair.

That means precious time and resources spent by the party to make both ships airworthy again--and not "fully repaired," but "barely capable of steering, much less defending ourselves." It can take days of work to reach even minimal operation again.

Which makes it the perfect opportunity for a third party to appear--a competitor or a predator who's been shadowing the ship the PCs took over, and who now sees an opportunity to claim two prizes at once. The PCs will have suffered losses, the crew of their captured ship will be decimated, and both vessels will be damaged and vulnerable.

Even without a second desperate battle on top of the first, there's no reason for the captured ship to remain the PCs' exclusive property. If there are surviving crew, they will take every opportunity to recapture their ship. Even if the PCs toss them all over the side, they might discover that some of their own "loyal crew" are a good deal less so, and a faction of mutineers might easily make off with the captured ship--or worse, trick the PCs onto the captured ship, set it on fire and abscond with the PCs' original vessel. If these are Sky Pirates, rather than Sky Gentlemen Sailors, then everyone's a conniving would-be murderer with a nefarious plot up their sleeve.

Play that for all it's worth, and don't make it easy on the PCs.

[Caedes]

There is a wealth of information in 2nd, 3.0 and 3.5. Look for stuff around skyships and Spelljammer.

Also the Eberron Campaign/world had flying ships.

As for the Ship value and selling. I am with everyone else in the depreciation is a harsh mistress. Another side of that is it is one thing to sell a sword that you you took off that guy you slaughtered. A totally different thing in selling a ship you took by pillaging. In most campaigns that do have flying ships they come from specific regions and specific companies.

Your motley crew of flying murder Hobos might find it easier to take of value what they can and then scuttle the ship once they have stripped the valuable bits (Like the part that makes it fly).

Then again... They could always in the long run open up a blackmarket for flying ships... All depends on how business savvy/Kingdom Buildy they want to be.

[Elder_Basilisk]

The other thing to consider before assuming that the wealth by level will be blown out the window is the PCs' crew. Presumably if this is anything like sea pirate scenario, they will need a substantial crew in order to sail their ship, attack and overwhelm the opposing ship, and then provide a prize crew to steer the captured ship to wherever they will sell it. (Which is not an open market but is probably some nation opposed to the nation they got the ship from (and probably a nation that the PCs leave alone)). Those crew won't work for free, nor will they be working for a set wage (1 sp per day or something like that). They'll expect a share of the treasure. Now, I'm not sure exactly how the traditional cut went for historical pirates, but I know Cortez was criticized quite heavily in some quarters for taking 1/5 of the wealth that his conquistadores captured. If we assume that the party is equivalent to the captain and officers, maybe they get 40% or 50% of the loot to share between them. So if we start with a 25,000 gp warship that would have a 12,500gp sale price at 50%; the PCs are only retaining maybe 6,250 of that. If we further assume that the fight damaged the ship such that it had to be repaired before sale (at considerable expense) or could only be sold at 25% (vs 50% for an undamaged ship), the PC's share is down to 3,125 gp. That's a lot, but it's not going to blow the PCs' wealth by level out of the water, unless they're capturing ships every encounter. (And not every ship is a warship anyway).

Assume that the PCs spend some of their wealth on upgrading the ship, recruiting new crew (to replace losses), dealing with dishonesty among their crews (dishonest pirates--this is my shocked face), etc and their actual wealth by level that is available for increasing personal combat power shouldn't be too far ahead of what the books expect.

[dascarletm]

That is actually a good point as well. As far as damage to the ship goes, I know one player is going to be a wizard focusing on repairing and bolstering the ship.

I think this can work out, and as far as 2nd edition and 3rd/3.5 (barring eberron and stormwrack) what other sources would be useful for this?

Pathfinder has Ultimate combat, which I don't have I only have access to the SRD. Does anyone know if there is anything in the book not listed on the SRD worth having for a campaign like this?

[Alex12]

Probably one of your best resources, as has been stated, is Skull and Shackles stuff- the relevant Player's Guide (http://paizo.com/products/btpy8rwc?Pathfinder-Adventure-Path-Skull-Shackles-Players-Guide) is free from Paizo. And, to my knowledge, d20pfsrd is pretty darn comprehensive.

You might consider a couple of non-typical races for relatively prominent inclusion, specifically Sylphs (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-sylph), Strixes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-strix), and Wyvarans (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/advanced-races-11-20-rp/wyvaran-17-rp).

A relatively easy source of personal flight, at least for short distances, would be useful, and you might consider allowing PCs to put ranks in the Fly skill starting at level 1 (I could easily imagine gliders and other such devices taking the place of rowboats and dinghies).

If you're using Dreamscarred's psionics rules, the Aegis (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/aegis) would work amazingly in such a world (as appears to be the case in most settings, really) with 5th-level always-on flight capability and cost-free repair ability (for both maintaining and repairing the ship). When dealing with large number of people (say, a ship's crew), the Witch's Healing Hex is surprisingly useful- it only works once per person per day, but for dealing with large numbers of people with minor injuries (such as, say, the sorts of things they might suffer on a daily basis) or who need to be stabilized, it's much more efficient than spending spell slots.

[stack]

Ships of Skybourne, a vehicle building book for an airship heavy campaign setting will be released in the next month or so.

The setting players guide (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/173399/The-Players-Guide-to-Skybourne?src=slider_view) is available presently and has some airship rules in it.

[Kol Korran]

Hi there! I ran a seafaring/ piracy campaign some time ago, and I'd like to include a few other points to consider:
1. Handling "ti,e at sea/ on the boat": Is the ship just means of transport? Will battles take place upon it? Roleplay? It usually becomes the PC's home. You and the players need to think how much you and them are going to invest in playing on the ship, as that affects the amount of details and investment in it.

2. The ship, and getting it: I'd highly advise not starting with a ship, but play out the first 1-3 adventures actually getting one. First of all, the players will also be new to their characters, and they need time to get into them, and to the setting. The ship can become quite personal to the players, and I'd suggest to make "something" about it also personal to the players and characters. My suggestion is to have them acquire it in a fairly bad shape, but with some great potential if they invest in it rightly. The "Upgrading the ship" mini-game can be great fun and a sense of great accomplishment.

3. The issue of a crew: Now, this is a biggy! More crew means more complexity, handling the crew and more. Some teams like it, some don't. You'll need to see. I'd advise taking the Firefly/ Serenity approach, where the ship actually needs very few crew members PC's and maybe a FEW others) to handle well. This could easily be done through Magic devices and so on (Some sort of a controlling device?) You can avoid a lot of the hassle of handling lots of crew members (Not to mention battles! Do you really want to do a battle on 2 tight ships, between 2 crews of 15-30 people each?)

4. The pirate code: Whether you are using crew or not, I'd suggest looking for a 3rd book called "Pirates!" which adds a lot of flavor and info about how piracy usually went, and stuff you can incorporate into the game, like the different roles (Captain, Quarter master, navigator, deck hands and more), contracts and agreements, and more. It's quite a useful book, in terms of flavor.

5. The map: This is also a biggy. With a flying ship, the party will have a LOT of freedom of where they go, and so on. You need a decently detailed setting and map for them. Something important that you need to decide up front: How much do the players like to direct the story, and how much they like to be directed? This is important in such cases.

6. Magic and seafaring/ piracy: Magic changes the "traditional" piracy. Now, the "Storm wreck" tried to detail on that, but I'd REALLY advise to NOT use it, since it complicates stuff up to the wazoo! You need something simpler, and I too have heard that the PF AP Skulls and shackles deals with it quite well. I'd look into it.

7. The role of fire arms: Pistols and cannons are quite a staple of piracy games. Are you including them? If so, to what degree? You'll need to have a system for these. Also, how do magic affect them? (Cannon balls that burst into fire balls after impact?)

8. The LAW: :smallwink: If they are pirates, it means they are outlaws, right? From what authority? Are they pursued? To what extent? Who is "The man"?

9. Moral issues: Also soemthign to decide with the groups- they are outlaws, and some may take it to extremes. What is ok in the game? Torture? Slavery? abuse? Discuss it before the game starts, as you do about all expectations.

Good luck to you!

[dascarletm]

Hi there! I ran a seafaring/ piracy campaign some time ago, and I'd like to include a few other points to consider:
Thanks this really helps get the ball rolling in my head. I'm going to answer all these questions on here, mostly for my benefit.

1. Handling "ti,e at sea/ on the boat": Is the ship just means of transport? Will battles take place upon it? Roleplay? It usually becomes the PC's home. You and the players need to think how much you and them are going to invest in playing on the ship, as that affects the amount of details and investment in it.
I imagine the campaign will mix ship combat with off ship combat. I'll need to see where the player interest lies. I think a good deal of the campaign will take place on the ship

2. The ship, and getting it: I'd highly advise not starting with a ship, but play out the first 1-3 adventures actually getting one. First of all, the players will also be new to their characters, and they need time to get into them, and to the setting. The ship can become quite personal to the players, and I'd suggest to make "something" about it also personal to the players and characters. My suggestion is to have them acquire it in a fairly bad shape, but with some great potential if they invest in it rightly. The "Upgrading the ship" mini-game can be great fun and a sense of great accomplishment.
I actually am allowing them to start with a ship. The initial campaign set-up is that they are testing a prototype ship (which will be rife with bugs they'll need to work out). They have a interest free debt and once they pay the ship off it is theirs. The prototype will be bare-bones in the upgrade department

3. The issue of a crew: Now, this is a biggy! More crew means more complexity, handling the crew and more. Some teams like it, some don't. You'll need to see. I'd advise taking the Firefly/ Serenity approach, where the ship actually needs very few crew members PC's and maybe a FEW others) to handle well. This could easily be done through Magic devices and so on (Some sort of a controlling device?) You can avoid a lot of the hassle of handling lots of crew members (Not to mention battles! Do you really want to do a battle on 2 tight ships, between 2 crews of 15-30 people each?)
The good thing about the prototype ship is that it only really needs 5 or so crew to operate. There is a conscience spirit which keeps the ship working, but will need handling to cooperate. I thought of this mostly because I didn't want the hassle of a large crew.

4. The pirate code: Whether you are using crew or not, I'd suggest looking for a 3rd book called "Pirates!" which adds a lot of flavor and info about how piracy usually went, and stuff you can incorporate into the game, like the different roles (Captain, Quarter master, navigator, deck hands and more), contracts and agreements, and more. It's quite a useful book, in terms of flavor.
That I will need to do. My knowledge on pirate stuff is a little lacking.

5. The map: This is also a biggy. With a flying ship, the party will have a LOT of freedom of where they go, and so on. You need a decently detailed setting and map for them. Something important that you need to decide up front: How much do the players like to direct the story, and how much they like to be directed? This is important in such cases.
I've got a great program to make the map with. It is my biggest project I'll need to do before we start up. Player direction will be interesting. I have two players I have DM'd and played with for many years, and they usually direct the story a lot. I have two others that I'm unsure about. So I'll probably keep the game pretty sandboxy.

6. Magic and seafaring/ piracy: Magic changes the "traditional" piracy. Now, the "Storm wreck" tried to detail on that, but I'd REALLY advise to NOT use it, since it complicates stuff up to the wazoo! You need something simpler, and I too have heard that the PF AP Skulls and shackles deals with it quite well. I'd look into it.
I am probably going to pick it up. Really though I would like a ship combat system that doesn't feel slow. All ship combat systems I have ever used were really tedious.

7. The role of fire arms: Pistols and cannons are quite a staple of piracy games. Are you including them? If so, to what degree? You'll need to have a system for these. Also, how do magic affect them? (Cannon balls that burst into fire balls after impact?)
Full cannons/firearms. I'm using pathfinder so I'll use their rules. I'll have to decrease the price on firearms due to them being more commonplace.

8. The LAW: :smallwink: If they are pirates, it means they are outlaws, right? From what authority? Are they pursued? To what extent? Who is "The man"?
I've got a few contenders in the works, but I'm unsure if I want to force an enemy off the bat, or let the player's piss off their choice of nation(s)

9. Moral issues: Also soemthign to decide with the groups- they are outlaws, and some may take it to extremes. What is ok in the game? Torture? Slavery? abuse? Discuss it before the game starts, as you do about all expectations.
The players and I are all very close friends, and I am thankful that we are all on the same page without discussion needed. I'm lucky in that regard.

Good luck to you!
Thanks again!

[Extra Anchovies]

GDW's Sky Galleons of Mars is an incredible resource for a sky-pirates game; even if you use a homebrewed combat system, SGoM has a lot of very good rules and systems for skyship campaigns. The rulebook is currently available for eight dollars on DriveThruRPG (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/59094/Sky-Galleons-of-Mars-Cloudships-and-Gunboats).