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KnotKnormal
2016-03-22, 11:50 AM
Hey everyone,
I recently started a new campaign with some new players (not to D&D but to my DM style). I am keeping the entire campaign inside a city and I informed them that leaving the city will effectively end the campaign.

And yet!

They consistently want to leave, despite the motivations I've given their characters. so do i let their character leave the city and then punish the players by ending campaign or even having them re-roll characters?

let me know what you guys think.

Answering some questions:

When did I tell them that the campaign only takes place inside the city?

Immediately. Before they even rolled characters I gave them information about the city, there country it's in, as well as informing them the city is the focus.

What motivations are you giving their characters?

The weak before campaign started I told them I wanted a background story for their character so that I could add personal plother hooks. Example. One of the players, plays a "trinket mage" looking for his master for further training. So I gave him evidence that his master was somewhere in the city. I did this with all the characters.

Why do they want to leave OOC?

When I asked on several occasions many of them exclaimed that their charscters didn't have any more reason to stay, including the trinket mage that had not bothered to search for any other clues for his master. Also, one instance where they wanted to skip town was after the captain of the guard executed the guards that had mugged them earlier in the campaign, then informed them that the mayor wanted to see them. They were given 24 hours to respond and they all answered with, "I catch the next boat out of town."

Are they having fun?

Everything I've asked, they said they were.

Geddy2112
2016-03-22, 12:04 PM
You created a "don't touch the red button" situation. By saying "don't touch the red button" you have caused all the players to want to touch the red button. It could be a good end to the campaign to be able to leave, if they are say, trapped, but otherwise it has just become the object of desire.

If you end the campaign after the players leave, but have the roll up new characters in the same setting, I doubt they will be content with staying. Likewise, if you fiat that it is impossible to leave the city, they may resent you and quit. It sounds like they don't want to play the type of game you are DM'ing, so maybe it is best to reboot and talk about what game you want to play as a group. If they want a high fantasy dungeon crawl through forests and mountains, but you are running a steampunk cityscape, nobody is going to have fun(just as an example of DM and group not being on the same page).

Also, to be clear, when you say "motivations I have given their characters" these were plot/story hooks they took voluntarily, correct? Or did you give them characters with pregenerated motivations?

Vinyadan
2016-03-22, 12:15 PM
Just have the city cover the whole planet. But this should be done at the start of the campaign. By telling them not to leave the city, you have created a prison-like situation, and they of course want to leave. The fact is that you probably ended up exalting the difference between the city and whatever's outside. After all, most stories which take place in an enclosed space have their clue in the opposition between inside and outside, and the "truth" AKA interesting stuff/big reveal/ph4t l3wt is out there.

sktarq
2016-03-22, 12:49 PM
Just to be clear-the characters could leave, in theory, but there is just no story out there and that's why the campaign would end.

Did you tell them this before characters were created so the players knew what they were getting into?

If so wrap up the game, they don't actually want to play what you want to. Clash of playstyles that isn't necessarily anyone's fault-but they have every right to play as they want and you have every right to limit what type of game you wish to play and support as well.

And make it bigger and clearer about the limits as you try to assemble another group.

Lord Torath
2016-03-22, 01:29 PM
I'd recommend OOC conversation. Ask them why they want to leave the city. Is it just to prove they can? Do they want a quick jaunt to the woods, and then be back the next day? Do they want something that's not available in the city (but might conceivably be available elsewhere)? Are they tired of the campaign?

If the answer to that last one is not "yes," ask them to please stop trying to leave the city. "I'm tired of coming up with reasons to keep you in. If you're enjoying the campaign, let me know by not trying to leave the city. If you're not enjoying the game, we'll end it here, and try something else."

Let them know that you are not enjoying the fight to keep them inside the walls, so if they're not enjoying staying in the walls, then no one's enjoying the game, and you might as well end it. Let them know you are serious about this, and get an agreement from each player to stay in the walls (tell them they'll need to come up with their own excuses for staying inside from now on) before resuming play.

Keep some blank character sheets on hand to pass around the next time someone tries to leave the city.

goto124
2016-03-23, 12:18 AM
I informed them that leaving the city will effectively end the campaign.

How many times have the players been reminded of this fact?

What were their responses whenever they were reminded?

Knaight
2016-03-23, 12:41 AM
Just have the city cover the whole planet. But this should be done at the start of the campaign. By telling them not to leave the city, you have created a prison-like situation, and they of course want to leave. The fact is that you probably ended up exalting the difference between the city and whatever's outside. After all, most stories which take place in an enclosed space have their clue in the opposition between inside and outside, and the "truth" AKA interesting stuff/big reveal/ph4t l3wt is out there.
There are tons of stories that take place entirely inside a city which have nothing to do with opposition between inside and outside; they just don't emphasize the whole "enclosed space" thing. Consider the number of plays that take place entirely within a few rooms. On top of that, essentially every story takes place within a limited area of some sort, and unless the limit is specifically highlighted it rarely matters. To use a particularly extreme example, most stories don't involve space travel, and that's usually completely irrelevant. The stories which do have the interesting stuff "out there" also tend to be the ones to emphasize the presence and inaccessibility of things beyond the space.

Or, to use a city example, it's the difference between a story which constantly goes on about how "nobody knows what's beyond these walls", versus a story which takes place entirely in a city, but where it's generally understood that there's lots of other things going on in lots of other places and it's just that this particular story happens to be about this particular thing.


Hey everyone,
I recently started a new campaign with some new players (not to D&D but to my DM style). I am keeping the entire campaign inside a city and I informed them that leaving the city will effectively end the campaign.
When did you inform them? If it was before the game started and they were on board with it then, then remind them of that detail. Otherwise, it's something you should have informed them of earlier.


They consistently want to leave, despite the motivations I've given their characters. so do i let their character leave the city and then punish the players by ending campaign or even having them re-roll characters?

let me know what you guys think.
None of this is particularly promising. Giving characters motivations is on shaky ground to begin with unless it's established ahead of time, and punishing players is generally not a useful thing to be doing. If you wanted a campaign in a city, you should have gotten the players motivated for that instead.

RazorChain
2016-03-23, 04:49 AM
Hey everyone,
I recently started a new campaign with some new players (not to D&D but to my DM style). I am keeping the entire campaign inside a city and I informed them that leaving the city will effectively end the campaign.

And yet!

They consistently want to leave, despite the motivations I've given their characters. so do i let their character leave the city and then punish the players by ending campaign or even having them re-roll characters?

let me know what you guys think.

I don't understand the problem? Why does the campaign end if they leave the city? What motivations did you give the characters? How do you keep them in the city? Is the city locked off?
WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU PUNISH PLAYERS?

I'm running a campaign based mostly in a city, I see no need to forbid anyone from leaving the city. And when they leave they always come back because the there are lots of things happening in the city that affects the players.

Telok
2016-03-23, 05:50 AM
The players are violating the social contract. As long as you were explicit about the campaign being in-city and they said yes there's no problem, untill they leave without any reason.

End the camapign or tell them it's time off untill you can make a different campaign outside the city.

Vinyadan
2016-03-23, 05:58 AM
The players are violating the social contract.

Unleash the Leviathan!


There are tons of stories that take place entirely inside a city which have nothing to do with opposition between inside and outside; they just don't emphasize the whole "enclosed space" thing. Consider the number of plays that take place entirely within a few rooms. On top of that, essentially every story takes place within a limited area of some sort, and unless the limit is specifically highlighted it rarely matters. To use a particularly extreme example, most stories don't involve space travel, and that's usually completely irrelevant. The stories which do have the interesting stuff "out there" also tend to be the ones to emphasize the presence and inaccessibility of things beyond the space.

Or, to use a city example, it's the difference between a story which constantly goes on about how "nobody knows what's beyond these walls", versus a story which takes place entirely in a city, but where it's generally understood that there's lots of other things going on in lots of other places and it's just that this particular story happens to be about this particular thing.

I chose the wrong words. I meant "an enclosed space you are not allowed to leave".

SethoMarkus
2016-03-23, 09:15 AM
It's more or less already been sugested, but ask your players why they want to leave the city. You say that you gave them motivations to stay within the city (I assume you have made in character reasons that compels each PC's personality and objectives, not just DM fiat "your mother is sick and dying"), what are their motivations for leaving? Do they want a quick foray? Do they want to visit or try to find another city? Do they want to dungeon delve? Do they want to explore uncharted territory?

Perhaps there is a way to compromise, bringing some of their desires into the city so that they need not leave it. If they want a traditional dungeon, for example, maybe have a forgotten crypt or older city beneath the streets. If they want to explore uncharted territory, a cavern network under the city or an older, abandoned district that is walled off from the rest of the city might work.

Lastly, if they still try to leave the city, I think you have two choices each, depending on whether or not they are enjoying the city campaign.

If they do enjoy it but want a change of scenery, you can continue to remind them of the boundaries and work with them to make the city more compelling. Or, you can create a short, mini adventure outside the city where everything points towards something going on in the city. They delve into an ancient crypt? They find the regalia of a powerful patron from the city. They invade the lair of an evil wizard or lich? Charts, scrying devices, intelligence all focused on the city. Lead them back to the city, make it plain that all the action takes place there.

If the players are not enjoying the campaign in the city, it's much simpler. You end the campaign like promised, and either build a new campaign that fits their interests (as well as your own), or you find another group willing to play by your rules. There's also a third option here, of having one of they other players take over DMing and you jump in as a PC, but that depends on one of the players being willing to take the reigns.

Knaight
2016-03-23, 09:18 AM
I chose the wrong words. I meant "an enclosed space you are not allowed to leave".
Barring the space travel absent in most stories, or for that matter things like transportation costs that would be prohibitive for a story about, say, a poor family that lives in a city, the same sort of thing applies. The issue isn't that the campaign has a given scope, it's that the players were never on board with it and the scope is likely contradicting the assumed travelogue style.

neonchameleon
2016-03-23, 09:57 AM
There is an OOC problem going on here. OOC problems need to be handled OOC - you need to talk to your players and ask why they want their characters to leave.

Douche
2016-03-23, 10:21 AM
Whenever I have problems with people doing what I said not to do, I just remind them that if they don't play along with my power fantasy I will ruin everyones fun, and then kick and scream and cry endlessly until everyone is just so uncomfortable that they just play along, or they leave and never discuss the embarrassment to mankind that they just witnessed ever again.

Lord Torath
2016-03-23, 10:44 AM
Whenever I have problems with people doing what I said not to do, I just remind them that if they don't play along with my power fantasy I will ruin everyones fun, and then kick and scream and cry endlessly until everyone is just so uncomfortable that they just play along, or they leave and never discuss the embarrassment to mankind that they just witnessed ever again.Sounds legit. :smallwink:

Anonymouswizard
2016-03-23, 11:12 AM
Hey everyone,
I recently started a new campaign with some new players (not to D&D but to my DM style). I am keeping the entire campaign inside a city and I informed them that leaving the city will effectively end the campaign.

When? This is important, it's a lot more decent if specified before they create characters instead of after it. Although in the last 3 campaigns I've been in with my current GM we've been almost entirely within a single city (with the exception of plot-mandated forays outwards), and this wasn't actually specified beforehand, but the main reason we've had to stay within are a mixture of being interested in the plot and in-character honour for the current game. The entire game has happened within 3 cities, and almost completely within one. We've never felt boxed in despite barely getting a choice of how to move between cities.


And yet!

They consistently want to leave, despite the motivations I've given their characters. so do i let their character leave the city and then punish the players by ending campaign or even having them re-roll characters?

let me know what you guys think.

Eh, it depends. Ask them where they'd prefer the campaign to be set. I personally enjoy city-based games because they cater towards a fast-paced and character intensive plot style, whereas other people prefer slower games with more exploration suited to a town on the edge of civilisation. Then ask if they want to play a new campaign set in that sort of reason is you're up to it.

If they say 'we don't care' to where they want the campaign set question 2 is 'why do you want to leave the city?' It might just be that they want a change of scenery, or that they feel like they have no agency. I've found it's easier to get PCs to go along with stuff if you ask 'do this' rather than say 'don't do that'.

Also, what do you mean by giving their characters motivations?

Slipperychicken
2016-03-23, 04:58 PM
So, why do they want to leave? Do they just want to do some errand and come back?

Lvl 2 Expert
2016-03-23, 05:16 PM
Is there at this point still a way you can throw them a science fiction style mind**** a la the Matrix, Dark City, the Thirteenth Floor, something that literally (almost) kills them the moment they try to leave?

Sure, it will change everything you wanted to do with the campaign from that point onward, but the metaness of it might be worth it. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: you will have to use reverse psychology in all of your future campaigns though, they'll think all your plothooks are under a sign "do not look here".

KnotKnormal
2016-03-24, 12:16 AM
Answered some questions please see original post.

RazorChain
2016-03-24, 01:03 AM
Well the only thing I can say if you don't want to continue the campaign outside of the city and they don't want to be in the city the only thing to do is

"You take the next boat out of the city and live happily ever after. End of story."

There is no shame in ending an campaign that has run it's course.

EvilestWeevil
2016-03-24, 01:29 AM
You could just wrap the campaign, or hell, just roll with it. Its what we do as DM's we persevere. Let them leave, and give them a reason to come back. Or come up with something new, or relocate the hooks you have to new places. A part of these roleplaying games are exploration. Maybe those are the types of players you have, the type that want to see the world, feel the sun on their skin, and the wind in their hair. Other than that, talk to them, explain your position.

Anonymouswizard
2016-03-24, 05:29 AM
Ah, that type of group. Really annoying to deal with, because they'll say two contradictory things.

Your best bets are either to let them end the campaign or roll with the balls they throw you and move the campaign out of the city.

Telok
2016-03-24, 07:33 PM
Oh! Oh! Put them on the next boat out of town. Attack with sea critters in a storm, sink the boat. Let them live almost gearless on a small island for a few weeks. Fake roll for random encounters every day, all 'rolls' come up with nothing. After ten or fifteen minutes of rolling and asking them what they do each day they see/signal a ship and get rescued.

They get dropped off in a new city. Don't tell them that it's the old city with all the names changed.

KnotKnormal
2016-03-25, 07:33 AM
Oh! Oh! Put them on the next boat out of town. Attack with sea critters in a storm, sink the boat. Let them live almost gearless on a small island for a few weeks. Fake roll for random encounters every day, all 'rolls' come up with nothing. After ten or fifteen minutes of rolling and asking them what they do each day they see/signal a ship and get rescued.

They get dropped off in a new city. Don't tell them that it's the old city with all the names changed.

awww... But the names take me forever. lol

this is actually a hilarious idea. if it doesn't work i will end campaign. and re write a new one.

Anonymouswizard
2016-03-25, 08:08 AM
awww... But the names take me forever. lol

this is actually a hilarious idea. if it doesn't work i will end campaign. and re write a new one.

I recommend ignoring any suggestions that require tricking the players. Not only is it just a horrible thing to do, it will end bably of the players work it out.

DigoDragon
2016-03-25, 08:24 AM
Anyone remember the old movie Dark City? Maybe everyone is trapped here and for whatever reason only the players are figuring out that they are trapped. Leaving would still end the adventure, but now they have to find what is twisting buildings and roads around to prevent anyone from getting out on their own.

Hmmm... I guess this would be hard to run if the players acquire the ability to fly.

Lord Torath
2016-03-25, 08:29 AM
I recommend ignoring any suggestions that require tricking the players. Not only is it just a horrible thing to do, it will end badly if the players work it out.I'm going to agree with the mystery mage here. This is something that needs to be addressed openly and out-of-character. Tell the players that if they are enjoying the campaign, they are responsible for keeping their PCs where the campaign is happening. If they want to leave, you'll take that to mean they don't want to play that character any more, and they'll be provided with a fresh character sheet (for a character that won't be constantly trying to find reasons to leave town). If they're not enjoying the campaign, they can communicate this either by speaking up, or by having all their characters leave the city. But they're sending you mixed signals, and they need to decide which one they really mean.

Dragonfan
2016-04-05, 08:19 AM
You could make a plot hook.
If they leave the city, they end up in the city again. The next port is the one were they sailed away. Roads bring them back to the same or another place in the city.
It could be everyone in the city or only the PC's. Maybe someone wants to keep them in the city for some reason.

MrStabby
2016-04-05, 10:08 AM
Firstly, don't take it personally. And pretty much the first rule of DMing is to never get attached to anything your create - plots, NPCs although cities may be on the upper end of this...

Secondly don't see your players as adversaries (i am not trying to say you are, but check this). "Winning" as a Dm is giving your players an enjoyable experience and getting to express yourself and have fun in the process. You asked them not to do something and they did it/want to do it - don't take offence or worry about your pride. An otherwise good gaming group is worth more than that (and they are good enough to make you want to post here to save their game).

My advice is to let them leave. They want to feel free in the world, able to explore and it is probably a good sign that they feel the world is out there. Don't punish them or try to railroad them into going back but make the outside world interesting. As it is a big city will dominate events in a region so every trader they meet will be going to or from the city, every bureaucrat receives their orders from the city, every mage has a mentor in the academy there, every bard wants a career there and so on. If you give them their freedom to go outside and explore some of these other plots for a bit then in following them, they will get ever more ties to the city anyway.

BayardSPSR
2016-04-06, 08:39 PM
When I asked on several occasions many of them exclaimed that their characters didn't have any more reason to stay, including the trinket mage that had not bothered to search for any other clues for his master.

It sounds like they're looking for clues or hooks, just in the "wrong" place. Fortunately, if they're genuinely motivated by a lack of motivation, you have an easy solution: throw some obvious, in-your-face hooks at them. If they want a reason to stay but aren't inventing or finding one, make the reasons to stay come to them. This doesn't apply if they're actually excited about what's going on outside the city.

This might be an incompatibility in play-style, though, so you may have similar agency-distribution problems down the line.