Shadowcraft mage shadow illusion

[Monk of love]

So I was looking at the shadow illusion ability and it states that the altered spell works like shadow conjuration and shadow conjuration states this "you use material from the Plane of Shadow to shape quasi-real illusions of one or more creatures, objects, or forces"

creatures, object, or forces.

since a shadowcraft mage can mimic spells up to 8th level(without the workarounds) would this mean you couldn't mimic spells like mage's magnificent mansion? it's an interdimensional space so it's not a force, creature or object, same for the spell"instant summons"

[Morcleon]

Anything under Conjuration (creation) or (summoning) you can duplicate. The flavor text is just there to tell you how you are duplicating said spell and has no mechanical implication.

Also, an extradimensional mansion is an object and yanking something through space to your side definitely counts as a force.

[ace rooster]

Anything under Conjuration (creation) or (summoning) you can duplicate. The flavor text is just there to tell you how you are duplicating said spell and has no mechanical implication.

Also, an extradimensional mansion is an object and yanking something through space to your side definitely counts as a force.

The extradimensional mansion certainly works, as you can just choose to believe your own illusions. Duplicating instant summons is more interesting, because shadow conjuration creates a duplicate rather than mimicing how summoning works directly (cannot mimic teleportation spells, so how could it). You would still need an object with an arcane mark on it, and a real sapphire (because mentioned in the text) but the item would not actually be summoned. Shadow conjuration would create a duplicate instead when discharged. Unfortunately, the spell then ends, and what happens to the duplicate is not clear. If the duplicate persists, this application is increadibly broken, becase it would permit partial cloning of magic items. As it is not an instantanious creation spell, I would rule that the duplicate expires when the spell ends, so immediately.

[Monk of love]

I understand I was going to play a shadowcraft mage (as a backup character) as our characters sometimes die and thought shadowcraft mage was a cool thing to play but my DM has said I need to find a rule that says otherwise as he understands it as saying any of those spells with the limitation of creature, object or force.. so I'm trying to find an official rule clarification or example or I'll just need to suck it up

[Morcleon]

The extradimensional mansion certainly works, as you can just choose to believe your own illusions. Duplicating instant summons is more interesting, because shadow conjuration creates a duplicate rather than mimicing how summoning works directly (cannot mimic teleportation spells, so how could it). You would still need an object with an arcane mark on it, and a real sapphire (because mentioned in the text) but the item would not actually be summoned. Shadow conjuration would create a duplicate instead when discharged. Unfortunately, the spell then ends, and what happens to the duplicate is not clear. If the duplicate persists, this application is increadibly broken, becase it would permit partial cloning of magic items. As it is not an instantanious creation spell, I would rule that the duplicate expires when the spell ends, so immediately.

Shadow Conjuration just fakes the magic (the force, in this case) required to do the actual summoning, not the item itself. An easy way to prevent the cloning of magic items is the just have the spell work as it normally would. :smalltongue:

[Necroticplague]

Honestly, other than the name, everything about "instant summons" screams "calling spell", instead of "summoning spell". Summoning spells make copies of something temporarily, while calling spell bring an actual thing.

[Yuki Akuma]

I'd say that the mansion exists within the Plane of Shadow rather than an extradimensional space, but that's mostly just special effects.

Illusion (Shadow) spells can already transport people bodily into the Plane of Shadow so I don't see a problem with this from a flavour standpoint.

[ace rooster]

Shadow Conjuration just fakes the magic (the force, in this case) required to do the actual summoning, not the item itself. An easy way to prevent the cloning of magic items is the just have the spell work as it normally would. :smalltongue:

I don't know why you would think it does that as opposed to what it does for every other summoning spell. You might as well argue that it duplicates the force that brings summoned creatures into the material, so it should create real creatures. Yanking through space is a chunk of conjuration that shadow conjuration cannot do, instead creating fakes. That is kind of the point of the spell.

It probably should be a calling effect. I also tend to run summons as not full outsiders, instead being low powered ones temporarily granted a greater form by the spell. The summoning subschool as written just doesn't make a whole lot of sense anyway.

[Necroticplague]

I don't know why you would think it does that as opposed to what it does for every other summoning spell. You might as well argue that it duplicates the force that brings summoned creatures into the material, so it should create real creatures. Yanking through space is a chunk of conjuration that shadow conjuration cannot do, instead creating fakes. That is kind of the point of the spell.

Um, even normal summoning spell don't summon real creatures. They bring temporary magical creatures held together by the energy of the spell that made them. Thats why they disappear in an AMF, can be dispelled, and re-form a day after death. Contrast to calling spells, which simply drag a real creature to you.

[ace rooster]

Um, even normal summoning spell don't summon real creatures. They bring temporary magical creatures held together by the energy of the spell that made them. Thats why they disappear in an AMF, can be dispelled, and re-form a day after death. Contrast to calling spells, which simply drag a real creature to you.

Thats how I run it too, but the summoning subschool description says otherwise.


A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

It makes no sense, but they do pretty much the same thing as calling spells, only with no guilt. PF may do it better, don't know. Incidently, if the spell made them, it would be a creation spell, so it overlaps with another subschool either way.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Um, even normal summoning spell don't summon real creatures. They bring temporary magical creatures held together by the energy of the spell that made them. Thats why they disappear in an AMF, can be dispelled, and re-form a day after death. Contrast to calling spells, which simply drag a real creature to you.

The highlighted doesn't make any sense if they're just temporary beings that only exist for the duration of the spell.

It seems more likely to me that they're very much real but the magic protects their body and life-force from being harmed in any real and permanent way for the duration they spend on the material. They wink out in an AMF because the magic holding them to the material is suppressed; they're returned to whence they came until and unless the AMF is removed from the area allowing the magic to resume its function. I have to imagine getting yo-yo-ed like that would be really irritating but it makes more sense than the idea the spell spawns a new outsider somewhere in the great wheel a day after it's cast.