How can I make "non standard" labyrinths not suck?

[Krazzman]

I have a problem with dungeon design. But now I messed up and got myself into a corner where I think some advice will be enough to pull me out of....

For the current campaign my players entered "the shadow maze". They have the hint of "Shades of black, Illuminate my path, -------, please bring me home" pieced together from a broken masonry outside of the maze.

The gist of this maze is multiple illusion/twisted room setups and as such they are currently in a fir forest type area. And registered artificial light shines from above but beneath the trees it's quite chilly due to shade.

Now I need a way to lead them through this and some other areas in a way that don't slog the game down and outright suck. (Because this is something I disliked about nearly all labyrinths that were used in games so far... confusing messes that are just boring corridors...)

My thought out solution is that follow the shadows which lead to some key areas as they are currently standing on a clearing with 9 branching "paths". But I don't think my players will get that... so I either need hints or other possible ways to traverse these "rooms".

Currently planned:
Fir Forest, "normal forest", desert, islands in a sea of waist high water.

Please help, I feel like I am stuck.
PS:
Partylevel is 7. (Slayer//Magus, Ranger//Oracle/Paladin, Brawler//Nature Fang Druid [Brawler with Kipower and AC Bonus in light armor])

[Kelb_Panthera]

Call for a wisdom or an intelligence check. At least one of those should have a higher score in that stat than their player. You don't have to give them the solution but you could give them some sort of hint; "The trees all seem to be unusually aligned with each other," or "It's typical for clues of this sort (the text from the masonry) to refer to something that's actually inside the dungeon they mark."

[noob]

There is trees.
The players will probably just try to burn everything and then disintegrate what does not burns.

[Pex]

Play a David Bowie music track while running it?

[BowStreetRunner]

First, you need to acknowledge that "The players are not Sherlock Holmes" (http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1118/roleplaying-games/three-clue-rule). Next, you need to create some more clues that will lead the players to the same conclusion as the first clue. Besides the broken masonry you could have the decayed and partially legible journal of someone else who died in the labyrinth, as well as the cryptic words of some denizen of the labyrinth - an intelligent scavenger who shows up from time to time but stays out of attack range of the party, hoping to pick over their bones when they perish.

[nedz]

I'm going to assume you are talking about mazes, labyrinths are like mazes except that they only have one path through them.

I don't run either very often because, as you said, they are boring. (I last ran a labyrinth about 10 years ago and a maze about 15 years ago.)

I will only run them if I have a very good idea for one.

That said: I think you may have a reasonable idea though what you have described is more of a woodland sandbox. I think you need to go for atmospherics and you probably need some way of simulating reduced visibility, basically you need to split the party and have some sense of urgency as they bumble around in the shadows - this is quite hard to do.

[Krazzman]

Play a David Bowie music track while running it?

Any specific song recommendations except space odditity?


Call for a wisdom or an intelligence check. At least one of those should have a higher score in that stat than their player. You don't have to give them the solution but you could give them some sort of hint; "The trees all seem to be unusually aligned with each other," or "It's typical for clues of this sort (the text from the masonry) to refer to something that's actually inside the dungeon they mark."

The second hint I gave already... sort of. Unusually dense, not economically thought out forest.


First, you need to acknowledge that "The players are not Sherlock Holmes" (http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1118/roleplaying-games/three-clue-rule). Next, you need to create some more clues that will lead the players to the same conclusion as the first clue. Besides the broken masonry you could have the decayed and partially legible journal of someone else who died in the labyrinth, as well as the cryptic words of some denizen of the labyrinth - an intelligent scavenger who shows up from time to time but stays out of attack range of the party, hoping to pick over their bones when they perish.

Jeah, that's why I ask. Because I know my players aren't even close to that level of deduction. A scavenged corpse might be great. Thanks for the idea.


I'm going to assume you are talking about mazes, labyrinths are like mazes except that they only have one path through them.

I don't run either very often because, as you said, they are boring. (I last ran a labyrinth about 10 years ago and a maze about 15 years ago.)

I will only run them if I have a very good idea for one.

That said: I think you may have a reasonable idea though what you have described is more of a woodland sandbox. I think you need to go for atmospherics and you probably need some way of simulating reduced visibility, basically you need to split the party and have some sense of urgency as they bumble around in the shadows - this is quite hard to do.

It is basically a defense mechanism against the oncoming "shadow horde" that attacks the planet right now. I remember having the idea but... I sort of forgot to write it down in full... sadly.

[Gildedragon]

reduce the length of the "hallways" to short alleys between clearings so players can see several rooms down. That allows for battle spaces to be more diverse.

to get players to explore the trees you can try placing less subtle clues like a journal of someone that got lost and died in the maze, talking about how the trees got his friends
or you could make a day swelteringly hot
Or have a monster knock one of them into the trees as a result of fighting it.

[Kol Korran]

i'm not fully sure what you mena by a Labyrinth, but from wht I gather what you describe is basically a puzzle. And puzzles can get pretty tricky for players, if the clues are not sufficient. A few thigns to try and remember:
1- Look for "The 3 clue rule, by The Alexandrian" (I can't link from where i'm at, but just look it up). Basically, for any conclusion you wish your players to make, add 3+ clues inside it. These can be clues the party stumbles upon, clues they work for, and more.
2- Be ready for the group to find their onw solutions. Al ong time ago, I ran a sort of a puzzle, where the party tried to navigate a sort of an undergroudn complex, with long twisting tunneles that changed from time to time, and connected to other places. At various places druids placed some runes that might be abel to direct more stable routes. I thought the party will try to figure out the runes, and thus decipher what paths they should follow. (A long time ago, an unsuccesful attempt at puzzles). The partydidn't figure it out though...:smallfrown: But... they did find a way! How? In one of their encoutners, they captured one of the natives and threatened it to the wazoo, and had it lead their group through the tunnels to their destination. Worked nice!
3- Try and make some things more obvious, if the players seem to miss things that you think their characters won't. In another puzzle (Same game, again, not great), the party tried to navigate through a maze made of scenes of experiences of... well... other people... In each sceen there were certain items that shone and became mroe prominent if the memory was followed through, and each item lead to another memory. Some items sort of formed a loop, while others finally led outwards. The party got so confused by the whole shebang (I would too), that they lost track of the items, and which memories they led to. (They thought the items meant other things then directions, they thought they meant some sort of a moral choice or soemthing). So after a bit of wandering down memory lane, I emphasized they noticed how choosing some items kept leading to the memories of specific persons and such... In your case, you can at a tiem emphasize how some shadows look artifical, or that their placings seem a bit strange, and so on. First mroe subtly, but slowly more prominent perhaps?
4- Try to have alternate ways to solve the puzzle, and if possible, leave it somewhat open ended to enable the party to find a fitting solution.

I gotta run, I may have more later...