How to challenge my party

[Trask]

Hey forum goers, newish DM here. I've been DMing for my group for about 4 months now after our old DM left and I just started a fresh campaign about a month ago with my group doing the Freeport Trilogy. The party consists of a beguiler, druid, barbarian, sorcerer and ranger. They've been doing well so far, and most of their builds are pretty well optimized except for the sorcerers whose just going blaster caster. Problem is, that through a series of tricky, clever and extremely fortunate events, the party was able to take down an NPC and his group that should have been a very difficult, and most likely lethal for at least two of the PCs, encounter literally unscathed. They secured his loot and treasure and now the party is extremely overwealthy for their level and I'm afraid that whatever I throw at them they are going to eat for breakfast. We have a houserule about training feats which worries me a bit, and the beguiler is already buying a cloak of shadows and the ranger is getting mithril chain. How can I keep this adventure fun and challenging without taking away their wealth in a cheap way, like them getting robbed?

Note, a vast amount of their wealth came from a staff in the boat of the NPC they killed that he was delivering to a wizard. If I had this wizard appear do you think it would be appropriate for him to demand compensation for his stolen and sold item?

thanks!

[Bobby Baratheon]

Yeah, it would be fair. And if they don't have the money, have the wizard force them into indentured service to repay the debt. There's a plot hook if there ever was one. If he doesn't, and they keep the loot, just up the encounter difficulty. My current party that I DM for regularly trashes encounters of their level, so I surreptitiously up the level of the encounters by 2 or 3, and they end up being fun and relatively balanced.

[Godskook]

Note, a vast amount of their wealth came from a staff in the boat of the NPC they killed that he was delivering to a wizard. If I had this wizard appear do you think it would be appropriate for him to demand compensation for his stolen and sold item?

If said Wizard already existed in game, you're merely providing logical progression of story to have him show up and try to resolve his issue against the PCs.

[Flickerdart]

You have a few ways of going about it:

Stealing: Half-rust monster kender rogues stole/ate all their gold. Like you have already recognized, this is bad.

Diplomacy: The rightful owner of the items - the wizard - comes and demands the gold be returned to him. Presumably he has some way of identifying he is the rightful owner. If you think the party will want to fight him, have the wizard send a weaker minion instead. This still kind of sucks, since they already have the items and giving them up is less fun than keeping them.

You kill it, you buy it: The wizard demands payment for his lost items, but is happy to let the PCs work it off. All they need to do is give him the next X gold pieces they find. In effect, you will be deducting the excess value of their gear from future encounters.

Paying it forward: The wizard is clever, and figures that having a few powerful PCs in his pocket is more valuable than some magic loot. In exchange for his items, he asks the party to perform some quest for him (which can be as simple as attacking and robbing a rival wizard). The wizard may or may not ask for some or all of the items from the rival wizard's compound. The PCs will be more tempted to agree if the items are useless to them - alchemical laboratories, preserved dragon eggs, and similar set dressing.

A powerful enemy: The wizard is deeply unhappy with the PCs, and does not consider monetary compensation to make up for his grievance. He fights the PCs, putting several powerful curses on them (or possibly killing one of them). The PCs must spend money on hiring NPC spellcasters to cure/raise them. To make this feel less like a cinematic "you must lose" fight have the wizard be fairly vulnerable to taking damage, so that he flees after casting a few spells. RP him as leaving because he is afraid of dying, not because he thinks the PCs have been taught a sufficient lesson.

[Trask]

I should mention that this group is currently level 2 on the cusp of 3, they just finished the first adventure in the campaign and are starting the next one soon. I like the idea of that wizard appearing, but how could he have found the PC's? Could he have possibly scryed the location of the staff and simply traced it back from merchant to merchant to who originally stole it? And what level would you suggest this Wizard be so that the PCs engaging him would only have a tiny chance of success but it would be possible? I don't like to throw unbeatable encounters at players

[Trask]

You have a few ways of going about it:

Stealing: Half-rust monster kender rogues stole/ate all their gold. Like you have already recognized, this is bad.

Diplomacy: The rightful owner of the items - the wizard - comes and demands the gold be returned to him. Presumably he has some way of identifying he is the rightful owner. If you think the party will want to fight him, have the wizard send a weaker minion instead. This still kind of sucks, since they already have the items and giving them up is less fun than keeping them.

You kill it, you buy it: The wizard demands payment for his lost items, but is happy to let the PCs work it off. All they need to do is give him the next X gold pieces they find. In effect, you will be deducting the excess value of their gear from future encounters.

Paying it forward: The wizard is clever, and figures that having a few powerful PCs in his pocket is more valuable than some magic loot. In exchange for his items, he asks the party to perform some quest for him (which can be as simple as attacking and robbing a rival wizard). The wizard may or may not ask for some or all of the items from the rival wizard's compound. The PCs will be more tempted to agree if the items are useless to them - alchemical laboratories, preserved dragon eggs, and similar set dressing.

A powerful enemy: The wizard is deeply unhappy with the PCs, and does not consider monetary compensation to make up for his grievance. He fights the PCs, putting several powerful curses on them (or possibly killing one of them). The PCs must spend money on hiring NPC spellcasters to cure/raise them. To make this feel less like a cinematic "you must lose" fight have the wizard be fairly vulnerable to taking damage, so that he flees after casting a few spells. RP him as leaving because he is afraid of dying, not because he thinks the PCs have been taught a sufficient lesson.

I responded before I saw your post, very helpful. A raise might be what I need to suck some gold out of their pockets and you had some other interesting ideas as well, thanks

[Campbellk8105]

As another option. You could create another way they have to use their gold for something else rather than gear.

Do the characters have relevant backgrounds?

I'm unfamiliar with the campaign setting but, you could incorporate them buying medicine for a sick village or peoples of a relevant city.

Have the wizard invite them for a meal at abandoned location A. Prestidigationed a few times to appear somewhat livable of course.

The invitation reads:
"Greetings adventurers! It is I, the great Malachai! The esteemed wizard from the rolling hills of Tihs Llub!
I would like to congratulate you, personally, for completing the quest I had challenged you with in obtaining the mystic staff from the midst of that thug!

I hereby cordially invite you to partake in a marvelous feast hosted by none other than myself! I cannot wait to meet you all and celebrate this triumphant time!

(Location and time)

Signed, Malachai the Great"

Now, of course, play it out how you want from there. They show up, he drugs the food and steals the stuff. Giving reason for them to hunt him down as a side quest later. He offers them indentured servitude for a time. Or, as soon as they enter its an ambush by some mooks they can kill, albeit one of their party members die in the process needing a raise/heal.

Just an idea 👍🏻

[Godskook]

I should mention that this group is currently level 2 on the cusp of 3, they just finished the first adventure in the campaign and are starting the next one soon. I like the idea of that wizard appearing, but how could he have found the PC's? Could he have possibly scryed the location of the staff and simply traced it back from merchant to merchant to who originally stole it? And what level would you suggest this Wizard be so that the PCs engaging him would only have a tiny chance of success but it would be possible? I don't like to throw unbeatable encounters at players

1."Unbeatable" is a matter of perspective. Sending a Wizard of level 10 after them who intends to kill them is bad form. Sending said Wizard with the intent to bargain or otherwise peacefully regain what's his isn't so bad. If you precede his discussion with the PCs with a blatant show of power, this could actually be a good thing for your players. Don't be so obsessed with "winnable" that you forget to make encounters "loseable", because imho, you can't have one without the other.

2.A Wizard powerful enough to reclaim such a relic himself would also be a wizard powerful enough to hire servants to do it for him. You can send his envoy to reclaim the lose, who would, naturally, not be as powerful as the Wizard himself.

[Trask]

One issue is that im not exactly sure how the party will react in general. The barbarian is a stereotypical loose cannon who loves to fight, and the player himself seems bull headed enough to try such a thing (he actually fiddled enough with some ritual components in an ancient temple to start a ritual despite massive and numerous foreshadowings) but the rest of the players are not so reckless. I think it could possibly go either way in combat or diplomacy with the wizard.

[Jack_Simth]

Another option is to simply throw low-treasure monsters at them for a while. There's plenty of beasties that have Treasure: Half, Treasure: None, or whatever. After a time, their level will catch up with their loot, and you're fine. You can even increase the CR of the critters you're using slightly to account for the greater wealth.

[Gildedragon]

I like the wizard demands payment, but payment comes in way of services rendered. It gives you a way to insert plot hooks with ease. For safety's sake: wizard sends a Sending or similar spell, or a letter with a magic mouth, etc. Consequences of refusing: wizard pulls strings and they find they aren't welcome in most cities in the region, and he let's them know as much. Gives them their first mission right there and then, maybe a clear a mine out of beasties but don't bother the undead workers sort of mission so they get to beat something up right away.

As to what to do mechanically: enemies with evaporating weapons (there are a lot of those), little to no treasure, single use items, etc. They will catch up in a level or two.