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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next [PEACH] 5e Gunslinger Class - Ongoing Project



Wufflykins
2016-03-24, 08:22 PM
MASSIVE OVERHAUL AS OF 17/8/2016

Not satisfied with Matt Mercer's well thought out Gunslinger Archetype I set out looking for a quality homebrew solution for a gunslinger class.

Still a work in progress but I need the unbiased eye of you fine folks to help me fine tune it for wider use. This will be an ongoing project to produce a seamless and quality Gunslinger class that any DM should feel comfortable allowing at the table; I feel that it is close to being balanced but not there yet, but before I focus on fine tuning balance I want to instead ensure the flavour is there and that the mechanics fit in with the principles of 5E (simplicity and flavour first). I need your help with that.

The beginnings of a PDF copy with art and two of the four prospective archetypes:

Be a Better Gunslinger! (http://docdro.id/dZbphVr)

I present to you:

THE GUNSLINGER

GUNSLINGER CLASS FEATURES
As a gunslinger, you gain the following class features.
HIT POINTS
Hit Dice: 1d10 per Gunslinger level.
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 6) + your Constitution modifier per gunslinger level after 1st.
PROFICIENCIES
Armor: Light armor, Medium armor
Weapons: Simple Weapons, Rapiers, Scimitars (and Sabre), Firearms
Tools: Tinker's Tools
Saving Throws: Strength, Dexterity
Skills: Choose two skills from Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Persuasion, Intimidate, Perception, Sleight of Hand, Stealth and Survival.
EQUIPMENT
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
A Pistol, Musket or Rapier
Any Simple Weapon, Pistol or Coat Pistol.
Leather or Scale Armor
An explorer’s pack, an ammo bandolier, a holster, 50 bullets, and Tinker's Tools.

Any firearms you begin play with have the Battered condition.

THE GUNSLINGER
Level Proficiency Features
1 +2 Fighting Style, Utility Shot
2 +2 Grit, Quick Draw
3 +2 Gunslinger Archetype
4 +2 Ability Score Increase
5 +3 Gunplay, Charmed Life
6 +3 Targeting
7 +3 Gunslinger Archetype
8 +3 Ability Score Increase
9 +4 Evasive
10 +4 Gunslinger Archetype
11 +4 Extra Attack
12 +4 Ability Score Increase
13 +5 Thrillin' Heroics
14 +5 Ability Score Increase
15 +5 Gunslinger Archetype
16 +5 Ability Score Increase
17 +6 Cheat Death
18 +6 Gunslinger Archetype
19 +6 Ability Score Increase
20 +6 True Grit

FIGHTING STYLE
You adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty, Choose one of the following options. You can't take a Fighting Style option more than once, even if you later get to choose again. Fighting Styles from other classes that affect ranged weapons do not apply to firearms.


Marksman. You gain a +2 bonus to ranged attack rolls you make with firearms.

Gunfighter. You are trained in making firearm attacks at close quarters. When you are wielding a firearm and make a ranged attack you have the following benefits: While you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature, you do not have disadvantage on the attack roll. Your ranged attacks ignore half cover and three-quarters cover against targets within 30 feet of you. Finally, you have a +1 bonus to attack rolls on all ranged attacks.

Desperado. When you take the attack action and attack with a one handed firearm, you can use a bonus action to attack with a loaded one handed firearm that you're holding. You can add your ability modifier to the damage of the off-hand attack and may draw, stow or reload two one handed firearms when you would normally be able to draw, stow or reload one.

Avante Garde. When you take the attack action and attack at least once with a one handed weapon or bayonet, you can use a bonus action to attack with a firearm that you're holding. You can add your ability modifier to the damage of this attack and may draw or stow two weapons when you would normally be able to draw or stow one. While you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature and holding a melee weapon, you do not have disadvantage on ranged attack rolls.
UTILITY SHOT
Starting at 1st level, you can take a shot with a firearm that creates a dramatic effect, rather than causing damage. This can blast open a lock, scoot an unattended object of 10 pounds or less, sever a rope or chain or any other suitably dramatic effect that the DM approves. If the DM calls for a roll when using the utility shot, you may choose to spend a grit point to roll with advantage once you acquire the Grit feature.

GRIT
A gunslinger makes her mark upon the world with daring deeds. Some gunslingers claim they belong to a mystical way of the gun, but it’s more likely that the volatile nature of firearms simply prunes the unlucky and careless from their ranks. Whatever the reason, all gunslingers have grit.
In game terms, grit is a fluctuating measure of your ability to perform amazing actions in combat. At the start of each day, a you gain a number of grit points equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier. Your grit goes up or down throughout the day, but usually cannot go higher than 1 + your Charisma modifier, though some feats and magic items may affect this maximum. A gunslinger spends grit to accomplish deeds (see below), and regains grit in the following ways.

Critical Hit. Each time you score a critical hit with a firearm or one-handed melee weapon attacks while in the heat of combat, you regain 1 grit point. Critical hits gained outside of die rolls (via enemy conditions) do not generate grit.

Killing Blow. When you reduce a dangerous creature (adjudicated by the DM) to 0 or fewer hit points with a weapon attack while in the heat of combat, you regain 1 grit point.

When you spend a grit point, it is unavailable until you finish a short rest or long rest.

You can spend these points to fuel various grit features. You start knowing three such features: Deadeye, Gunslinger Dodge, and Quick Clear. You learn more grit features as you gain levels in this class.


Deadeye. You can spend 1 grit point to avoid suffering disadvantage on an attack roll when you attack a target beyond normal range with a firearm.

Gunslinger Dodge. When an attacker you can see hits you with a ranged attack or subjects you to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw, as a reaction you may spend 1 grit point to grant yourself half-cover vs. ranged attacks and effects until the start of your next turn. As part of the same reaction you can choose to hit the deck if you are standing, going prone and granting yourself three-quarters cover instead.

Quick Clear. You can spend 1 grit point to use a bonus action to attempt a gunsmithing check to fix a firearm that has misfired.
You can also regain grit by performing daring acts. The Dungeon Master has the ultimate say as to whether an act constitutes a daring act, but as a general guideline, a daring act should be risky and dramatic. It should take a good deal of guts, and its outcome should have a low probability of success. If it is successful, the gunslinger regains 1 grit point. Before undertaking an action, the player can ask the Dungeon Master if it will qualify as a daring act.

Many of your Grit abilities require a saving throw against your Grit save DC. The saving throw DC is equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Dexterity modifier, if the saving throw is provoked on a critical the target makes it's saving throw at disadvantage.

QUICK DRAW
Beginning at 2nd level, if your hands are free and unrestrained, you can draw a single weapon as part of the initiative check.

GUNSLINGER ARCHETYPE
At 3rd level, you choose an archetype that specializes and focuses your skill with guns. Choose Mysterious Stranger, Stalker, Holy Gun, or Hexgun, all detailed at the end of the class description. The archetype you choose grants you features at 3rd level and again at 7th, 10th, 15th and 18th level.

GUNPLAY
Beginning at 5th level, when you take the attack action you can choose from one of the following attack options:

Extra Attack. You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the attack action on your turn. When you take the extra attack action, you may spend 1 grit and make an additional ranged firearm attack. At 11th level you may spend 1 grit to make two firearm attacks instead.

Deadshot. You make a single ranged firearm attack as your attack action; for this attack your weapon dice double and your critical range becomes 19-20 (four weapon dice on critical). At 11th level, for this attack your weapon dice triple and your critical range becomes 18-20 (six weapon dice on a critical). You only add your other dice and modifiers once to the overall damage. When you take the deadshot action, before rolling you may spend 1 grit to grant yourself advantage on the next deadshot you make.

CHARMED LIFE
At 5th level, when you make a Acrobatics, Athletics, Initiative or Vehicle check you may roll a d6 and add the result to the check. If the result of the d6 roll is a natural 6, it explodes and you may roll another 1d6 and add it to the check. You can continue to do this as long as you rolls natural 6s. You can use this ability a number of times equal to your Charisma modifer, regaining all uses when you complete a short or long rest.

TARGETING
Beginning at 6th level, before you make a ranged firearm attack roll against a creature, you can target a specific part of a target’s body by spending 1 grit point. The effect on the target on a failed saving throw depends on the part of the body targeted, as set out below.

Body Part Effect on a Hit:
Arms. The target takes normal or no damage (your choice), but drops an item carried in its hands if it fails a Strength saving throw.
Head. The target has disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks until the start of your next turn if it fails a Constitution saving throw.
Legs or Wings. The target is knocked prone if it fails a Dexterity saving throw.
Torso. If you miss on your attack roll the target makes a Dexterity saving throw, taking the attacks full damage on a failure or half damage on a success. If you hit and the target is Huge or smaller it is pushed back 10ft.

EVASIVE
Starting at 9th level, you can nimbly dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as a red dragon’s fiery breath or an ice storm spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.

THRILLIN' HEROICS
At 13th level, you've learned to push your luck to the limit. After you roll a charmed life die that is less than a 6, you may roll a heroics die. If the first heroics die is lower than the last Charmed Life die you rolled you lose your entire charmed life bonus for the check. If the heroics die is equal to or higher than the last charmed life die rolled, add all of dice together and apply it to the check. This can only be done once per check.

CHEAT DEATH
Starting at 17th level you gain the ability to evade certain death through sheer force of will. When you are reduced to 0 hit points, you can spend all of your remaining grit points (minimum of 1) to drop to 1 hit point instead. The cost of this feature cannot be reduced by true grit.

TRUE GRIT
At 20th level, you select two of your other abilities that require you to spend grit points. The cost of both of those abilities is reduced by 1 grit point, to a minimum of 0 grit points (in which case it makes those abilities free). In addition, when you perform a daring act, you now regain 2 grit points.

GUNSLINGER ARCHETYPES

MYSTERIOUS STRANGER

SNAPSHOT
At 3rd level, when you use the Gunslinger Dodge class feature and successfully save or avoid the attack you may as a reaction take a ranged firearm attack against the attacker.

BLACKPOWDER BRAVADO
At 3rd level you define the way you fight in earnest; choosing one of the three following options:

Gun Tank. While wearing medium or heavy armour you may use your Gunslinger Dodge feature against melee attacks and traps. Additionally when you dodge you may reduce the damage you take by 1d12 + your Gunslinger level + your Constitution modifier. Additionally being within 5ft of an opponent does not impose disadvantage on your ranged firearm attacks.

Wild-card. Your talent for not getting shot is as absurd as it is near miraculous. While you are not wearing armour or wielding a shield your AC becomes 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Charisma modifier and you gain proficiency in three gaming sets and two of the following proficiencies: Deception, Insight, Persuasion or Sleight of Hand. Any checks made with these proficiencies, or to do with gambling may benefit from the Charmed Life and Thrillin' Heroics class features when you gain access to them.

FAST AS LIGHTNING
At 7th level, you add your proficiency bonus to your initiative. Additionally when you draw a firearm as part of quick draw, you may make a single attack against a creature you can see, or spend 1 grit to take an attack action targeting creatures you can see; if the creature you target is surprised you have advantage on the first attack roll you make. If more than one creature in an encounter has this or a similar feature, they all act first in order of initiative, then the regular initiative order begins.

BLACKPOWDER SAVANT
At 10th level, choose a second option from the Fighting Style class feature.

UNBREAKABLE
At 15th level, you can shrug off the worst the world has to offer, such as a green dragon’s poison breath or a thunderwave spell. You gain proficiency in Constitution saving throws and when you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Constitution saving throw to take only half damage, you may spend a grit point instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail (though you are still subject to any other effects the ability or spell might impose).

DIEHARD
At 18th level, you've lived longer than most gunslingers, and it's never quite your time. When your hit point total is at 0, and you are not dead, at the start of your turn you can choose to regain consciousness but are still dying. Until you die or stabilize you continue to make death saving throws at the end of your turns but you may choose to act taking an action and bonus action on each of your turns, while in this state you are prone and your movement speeds are 0. After you use this ability, you can’t use it again until you finish a short or long rest.

STALKER
BONUS PROFICIENCIES
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in two of the following skills of your choice: Acrobatics, Athletics, Investigation, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Stealth, or Survival.

NATURAL EXPLORER
At 3rd level, you are a master of navigating the natural world, and you react with swift and decisive action when attacked. This grants you the following benefits:
You ignore difficult terrain.
You have advantage on initiative rolls.
On your first turn during combat, you have advantage on attack rolls against creatures that have not yet acted.
In addition, you are skilled at navigating the wilderness. You gain the following benefits when traveling for an hour or more:
Difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s travel.
Your group can’t become lost except by magical means.
Even when you are engaged in another activity while traveling (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would.
While tracking other creatures, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area.

SKIRMISHER
Starting at 7th level, you can use the Dash actions as a bonus action on your turn. You may as an action spend a grit point to imbue your firearm with some minor natural magic, the next shot this firearm makes makes no flash, noise or smoke. This magic lasts for up to one hour. You may only imbue one firearm in this way, if you attempt to imbue a second firearm the magic in the first firearm fades.

HIDE IN PLAIN SIGHT
Starting at 10th level, you can remain perfectly still for long periods of time to set up ambushes. When you attempt to hide on your turn, you can opt to not move on that turn. If you avoid moving, creatures that attempt to detect you take a −10 penalty to their Wisdom (Perception) checks until the start of your next turn. You lose this benefit if you move or fall prone, either voluntarily or because of some external effect. You are still automatically detected if any effect or action causes you to no longer be hidden. If you are still hidden on your next turn, you can continue to remain motionless and gain this benefit until you are detected.

VANISH
Starting at 15th level, you can use the Hide action as a bonus action on your turn. Also, you can’t be tracked by nonmagical means, unless you choose to leave a trail.

STAGGER
At 18th Level when you score a critical hit, the target must make a Wisdom saving throw or be slowed as per the spell until the end of your next turn. This is not a magical effect.

MULTICLASSING AND GEAR

MULTICLASS GUNSLINGER
For characters who wish to multiclass as a gunslinger, the minimum ability score to do so is Dexterity 13 and Charisma 13.
Further, when you multiclass into the gunslinger class you gain proficiency in firearms and gunsmith’s kits.
Multiclass gunslingers with the Holy Gun feature add one third of their levels (rounded down) when calculating their available spell slots.
Hexgun Magic. If you have both the Hexgun Magic class feature and the Pact Magic class feature from the warlock class, you can use the spell slots you gain from the Pact Magic feature to cast spells you know, and you can use the spell slots you gain from the Spellcasting class feature to cast warlock spells you know.
You determine your available spell slots by adding together all your levels in the Warlock Class and a third of your Gunslinger levels (rounded down) if you have the Hexgun magic feature. Use this total to determine your spell slots by consulting the Warlock table.
If you have both the Spellcasting class feature and the Hexgun Magic class feature from the warlock class, you can use the spell slots you gain from the Hexgun Magic feature to cast spells you know or have prepared from classes with the Spellcasting class feature, and you can use the spell slots you gain from the Spellcasting class feature to cast hexgun spells you know.
Holy Gun Sacred Oath. If you already have the Channel Divinity feature and gain a level in a class that also grants the feature, you gain the Channel Divinity effects granted by that class, but getting the feature again doesn't give you an additional use of it. You gain additional uses only when you reach a class level that explicitly grants them to you.
If you gain levels in a class that grants a Paladin Sacred Oath you must choose the same oath you chose for the initial class.

FIREARMS WEAPONS AND GEAR PROPERTIES
Most firearms are durable and can be used as a club for anyone with proficiency with the weapon. Firearms use special ammunition, and some of them have the cannon, misfire, capacity, or scatter properties.

Ammunition. The ammunition of a firearm is destroyed upon use. Most firearms use bullets.

Misfire. A weapon that has the misfire property becomes jammed when make an attack roll with a firearm, and the dice roll is equal to or lower than the weapon's misfire score. Until the jam is cleared by spending an action to use a Gunsmithing Kit to make a DC 10 Intelligence ability check, the weapon can not be fired.
If your check fails, the weapon is broken and must be repaired out of combat at half the cost of the firearm.

Capacity. This weapon can be fired a number of times equal to it's capacity score. A character must then spend an attack or a bonus action to reload.

Scatter. A weapon with the scatter property potentially deals damage to all creatures within a line equal to the indicated length. All creatures within the line must succeed on a dexterity saving throw (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus if proficienct + your Dexterity) or take the weapon’s normal damage. Weapons with the scatter property can use normal ammunition, as opposed to scatter ammunition, in which case they are treated as a normal weapon attack against a single target. Roll a d20 each time the weapon is fired, if the number is equal to or lower than the weapon's misfire score the weapon misfires.

FIREARMS
Weapon Cost Damage Weight Properties
Firearms Ranged Weapons
Simple Firearms
Blunderbuss 400 gp 1d10 piercing 8 lb. Ammunition (range 100/300), heavy, loading, misfire 1, scatter 60 ft., two-handed
Pistol 250 gp 1d10 piercing 3 lb. Ammunition (range 60/180), capacity (1 shot), misfire 1
Coat Pistol 250 gp 1d8 piercing 2 lb. Ammunition (range 40/120), capacity (1 shot), misfire 1, special
Musket 400gp 1d12 piercing 8 lb. Ammunition (range 150/450), heavy, misfire 2, capacity (1 shot), two-handed
Carbine 300 gp 1d10 piercing 6 lb. Ammunition (range 120/360), capacity (1 shot), misfire 2, two-handed


Advanced Firearms
Revolver 1250 gp 1d10 piercing 3 lb. Ammunition (range 50/150), misfire 1, capacity (6 shots)
Lever-Action or Revolving Carbine 2000 gp 1d10 piercing 6 lb. Ammunition (range 200/600), misfire 2, capacity (5 shots), two-handed
Lever-Action or Revolving Rifle 2500 gp 1d12 piercing 10 lb. Ammunition (range 250/750), heavy, misfire 2, capacity (5 shots), two-handed
Breach Loading Rifle 4000 gp 2d12 piercing 12 lb. Ammunition (range 300/1200), heavy, capacity (1 shot), misfire 3, two-handed.

Upgrades.
Rifling. Barrel grooves that serve to increase distance.
Triple cost and range increased by a half rounded up to the nearest 10.
Double-Barreled Weapons. A second barrel.
Base weight and cost increased by a half and capacity +1.
Pepperbox Firearms. Large capacity, but complex and hard to maintain.
Double base weight, triple cost, capacity +4, misfire +1; incompatible with double-barrel.
Takedown. Permits easy disassembly of firearm into three compact pieces.
Allows a long firearm to be stored/concealed in a backpack or under a coat; assembles and disassembles as an action.
Double base cost, misfire +1, incompatible with pepperbox.

Advanced Firearms already come with Rifling and due to their complex nature cannot be upgraded with Pepperbox or Double Barrel.

Ammunition
Bullets or Scattershot (10) 3 gp – 2 lb. –
Gunpowder, keg 250 gp – 20 lb. –
Powder Horn, Empty 10 gp – – –

SPECIAL FIREARMS
Battered. A gunslinger's starting weapon is battered, and only they know how to use it properly. It takes a miracle of love and labour to keep it running at all. For the gunslinger it functions like a normal weapon; all other creatures treat the gun as if it had the misfired condition. This starting weapon can only be sold for scrap (it’s worth 4d10 gp when sold).

Coat Pistol. The coat pistol grants advantage on any Sleight of Hand or Stealth rolls made to conceal the weapon.

AMMUNITION
Gunpowder, keg. A 20 lb keg of gunpowder, fills 10 powder horns and holds 2000 shots worth of powder. Keep away from fire.

Gunpowder, horn (empty). Hollow horn used for the storage and measurement of powder prior to firing, holds approximately 25gp worth of powder (2 lbs or two-hundred shots).

Scattershot. These rounds are used in weapons with the scatter property.

FIREARMS GEAR
Ammo Bandolier. This simple leather cross-belt features twelve leather loops suitable for holding bullets, enabling easy access to them. A character can wear up to two bandoliers or braces. Cost: 5 gp, Weight 1 lb.

Bipod and Ladder Sight. A bipod can be attached to any firearm with the two-handed property by using a Gunsmith’s Kit and making a DC 10 Intelligence ability check. A ladder sight is a mechanical sight fully adjustable for windage and elevation. As an action or a bonus action (the character’s choice), a character can set up the bipod and adjust the sight so that the attached weapon counts as being braced and sighted until the weapon is moved. In addition, once a weapon is braced and sighted, a character can use a bonus action to gain advantage on their next attack with the weapon made against a target outside it's base normal range. If a character moves or is moved the bipod and sight need to be set up again; when not in use the sight and bipod fold away allowing use of the normal sights.
Cost: 150 gp, Weight 5 lb.

Gun Brace. This is effectively a heavy leather bandolier for pistols. A gun brace has enough sleeves to hold up to four pistols (including repeating pistols) and a character can wear up to two bandoliers or braces. Cost: 5 gp, Weight: 1 lb.

Gunsmith’s Kit. A gunsmith’s kit contains all the tools needed to construct bullets, cannon shots, and firearms. Proficiency with this kit lets you add your proficiency bonus to any ability check you make to create or repair and such items (including clearing jams on firearms that have misfired). Cost: 50 gp, Weight: 6 lb.

Holster. This leather container is used to protect a firearm from the elements. It can be worn on the belt or across the back. Cost: 5 gp, Weight: 1 lb.

Wrist-Spring Holster. These holsters are leather bracers fitted with a spring-arm mechanism that holds a dagger or coat pistol in place and can project it immediately into the wearer’s hand when triggered. This allows the wearer to draw the weapon without spending any actions on their turn. The nature of this device enables it to be easily concealed beneath a loose, billowy sleeve, and grants advantage on Sleight of Hand and Stealth checks related to concealing the holstered weapons. Cost: 50 gp, Weight: 1 lb

Oramac
2016-03-25, 09:47 AM
I like the idea. It feels very Han Solo-ish. That said, even with the changes it still feels EXTREMELY powerful.

For example:


QUICK DRAW
Beginning at 2nd level, you can always ready a single firearm on your turn without spending an action (even if you have already interacted with another object that round). Further, as long as you have 1 grit point remaining you gain advantage when rolling Initiative.

The Barbarian, which is the only PHB class to get advantage on initiative, doesn't get it until 7th level. This helps prevent multiclassing issues, especially with Assassins.

Having it at 2nd level make an Assassin dip (or conversely, a Gunslinger dip) potentially OP.

Wufflykins
2016-03-26, 02:30 AM
I like the idea. It feels very Han Solo-ish. That said, even with the changes it still feels EXTREMELY powerful.

For example:



The Barbarian, which is the only PHB class to get advantage on initiative, doesn't get it until 7th level. This helps prevent multiclassing issues, especially with Assassins.

Having it at 2nd level make an Assassin dip (or conversely, a Gunslinger dip) potentially OP.

I see your point - though a two level dip in gunslinger would only net two grit. Two grit would be hard to hold onto between misfires and gunslinger dodge. There's plenty of abusable dips in 5e Core anyway; it feels a bit silly to balance a class based on what a munchkin might do with it.

That being said. 2nd level might be a bit early for it. I'll have a look and see where I can fit it in later in the progression.

Wufflykins
2016-03-28, 12:13 AM
Changelog v1.1

- Increased the cost of Deadshot to 2 grit points, and Targeting to 3 points.
- Further the gunslinger doesn't get advantage on initiative 'till level 15 (this feels high though, may lower it later).
- Gunslinger dodge can't be made free by true grit.
- Reduced Cheat Death from 6 grit point cost to 5.
- Changed Reactive Translocation to be half damage taken rather than no damage.

Changelog v1.2

- Moved Gunslinger Initiative (advantage on initiative rolls) to level 7 down from 15.

Oramac
2016-03-28, 08:49 AM
Changelog v1.1

- Increased the cost of Deadshot to 2 grit points, and Targeting to 3 points.
- Further the gunslinger doesn't get advantage on initiative 'till level 15 (this feels high though, may lower it later).
- Gunslinger dodge can't be made free by true grit.
- Reduced Cheat Death from 6 grit point cost to 5.
- Changed Reactive Translocation to be half damage taken rather than no damage.

This feels better. Level 15 might indeed be a bit high for the Initiative feature.

Wufflykins
2016-07-09, 01:02 PM
Changelog v1.3

- Removed Gunslinger Initiative (advantage on initiative rolls) and worked initiative into Charmed Life (+1d6 to initiative rolls); feels more flavourful and a bit less powerful overall and less of a shameless pilfer from the barbarian's abilities.
- Name Changed: Gunslinger's Edge to 'Thrillin' Heroics'.
- Name Changed: Spellslinger to Hexgun.
- Added Initiative to the list of things affected by 'Thrillin' Heroics', reflecting the gunslinger's niche of being 'the fastest gun in the west'.
- Reworked Hexgun's 'Arcane Shot' ability to be a bit less restrictive and more clear in mechanics.
- Trick Shot's Torso shot no longer affects critical range, instead pushes back 10ft (no save).
- Blackpowder Menace and Charmed Life run off of the Gunslinger's Charisma modifier now.

At this point I'm pretty happy with it, it doesn't outshine the other classes for damage in play.

Misfires tend to reign in the absurd number of attacks the Desperado gets.

Mysterious stranger has the right feel but is a bit bland.

I wouldn't mind some suggestions as to how to work Charisma into the mechanics a bit more - most of my players tend to dump it still so I'm looking for ways to make it more attractive.

Final Hyena
2016-07-09, 01:21 PM
What is the purpose of the Duelist fighting style?
+2 damage is roughly on par with +2 attack, but it is limited to one handed weapons which reduces it's value compared to marksman.
Also the class gets no shield to even use the other hand for anything.

I'm assuming you're using the DMG pistol which deals d10 damage? In that case I would change it to this;
DUELIST
When you are wielding a single firearm weapon in one hand and no other weapons or shields, you gain a d6 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.

Now +2 damage is normally enough for a fighting style, but you get an extra +1 damage to make it competitive against two handed weapons and the extra +0.5 is for the range decrease.

From further reading your deadshot example states that pistols do 1d10, but below you have them doing 1d6 which puzzles me your new pistol is just a worse (missifre & range) and more expensive hand crossbow.

Wufflykins
2016-07-09, 02:02 PM
Changelog v1.4

-Reworked firearm damage and range values to be more consistent and coherent, bumped pistol damage to a 1d8 and added a concealable 'Coat Pistol' à la Derringer which deals a 1d6.
-Removed the Duelist fighting style and replaced it with Gunfighter.
-Fixed the wording on Deadshot to reflect the correct pistol damage.

Final Hyena
2016-07-09, 02:39 PM
I balanced it thus so
Crossbow d10
Rifle d12

A simple +1

Which is why I made
hand crossbow d6
handgun d8


You are trained in making firearm attacks at close quarters. When you are wielding a single firearm (one or two-handed) and no other weapons or shields, your ranged attacks have the following benefits: While you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature, you do not have disadvantage on attack rolls. Your ranged attacks ignore half cover and three-quarters cover against targets within 30 feet of you. Finally, you have a +1 bonus to attack rolls on ranged attacks.Also i'm not sure about the name. What about commando? Cowboy? Close quarters?

Wufflykins
2016-07-09, 02:50 PM
I balanced it thus so
Crossbow d10
Rifle d12

A simple +1

Which is why I made
hand crossbow d6
handgun d8


You are trained in making firearm attacks at close quarters. When you are wielding a single firearm (one or two-handed) and no other weapons or shields, your ranged attacks have the following benefits: While you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature, you do not have disadvantage on attack rolls. Your ranged attacks ignore half cover and three-quarters cover against targets within 30 feet of you. Finally, you have a +1 bonus to attack rolls on ranged attacks.Also i'm not sure about the name. What about commando? Cowboy? Close quarters?

Gunfighter is the old name for gunslingers, I feel like it evokes the kind of old west imagery pretty well; in the vein of the famous close range shoot-outs of the 19th century.

I want to steer away from anything modern like Commando, and Close Quarters Shooter is already a fighting style; so I'd like to keep the names distinct to avoid confusion at the table.

Rerem115
2016-07-09, 06:58 PM
Overall, the class feels pretty balanced. However, there are a few points that I think are perhaps a bit on the strong side.

1. Stagger. Slow is an extremely powerful spell, even if it doesn't do damage. Being able to cast it 10 to 20 times a day is strong enough to trivialize encounters, especially bosses, even if the spell only lasts a round. Considering that this effect is a rider on the archetype's primary damaging ability, I'd consider nerfing this quite heavily. Maybe reduce the target's movement speed, or make it so they can't use reactions?

2. Arcane Shot. While the intent was to do what the Eldritch Knight does, (Cast a cantrip and attack in the same turn) the end result is significantly more powerful. With the Eldritch Knight, you get the cantrip and one attack as a bonus action. Also, Eldritch Knight doesn't impose disadvantage on saves until level 10. Hexgun gets all their attacks and a cantrip as a bonus action, which scales up to all their attacks and a spell, and disadvantage on saves. This means you essentially get two turns, and sets your DPR through the roof. In addition, you also removed any element of risk; you decide if your attack gets a spell or a cantrip buff after the attack connects, which guarantees that the target gets hit with the spell or cantrip (or at least rolls with disadvantage on AoE's).

Between what is essentially an extra turn combined with guaranteed cantrips, this feature is just too strong. While this feature is cool and thematically appropriate, for balance reasons I would suggest you simply use the Eldritch Knight's War Magic feature.

TLDR, cantrip+1 attack is fair, guaranteed spell+3 attacks is broken.

3. Thrillin' Heroics. Not really a balance issue, but more of a clarification issue. You say that you can use this feature in conjunction with the Thrillin' Heroics deed. What's that? "Thrillin' Heroics deed" is never specified in the OP.

Steampunkette
2016-07-11, 12:27 PM
Yeah... 3 attacks, the third of which is a Fireball spell which imposes disadvantage on the guy you shot might be a BIT much...

Wufflykins
2016-08-16, 02:57 PM
17/8/2016 Changelog.

All the things. No seriously.

ARCHETYPES
Revamped Mysterious Stranger and Spellslinger and scrapped Desperado.
Added Stalker and Holy Gun Archetypes.
Removed Deadshot from Mysterious Stranger and Made part of 'Extra Attack. Cleaned it up, is no longer massively technical. Streamlined and mostly balanced.
Renamed Spellslinger as Hexgun; now uses pact slots instead of regular spellcasting.
Renamed Arcane Shot as Eldritch Gunfire, rebalanced in line with Rerem115 and Steampunkette's suggestions.

CHASSIS
Tweaked fighting styles and added Avante Garde for all you Errol Flynn types.
Reduced Overall Grit to a more fluid system based on charisma, will fluctuate through combat.
Rolled Deadshot, Extra Attack and Guns Blazing into Blackpowder Bravado. This is now the meat of the Gunslinger's Damage; more attacks vs. a single aimed blow, Guns Blazing does more damage overall but have more chances to misfire, eating into the gunslinger's action economy.
Misfires are more punishing, taking an action or a grit (which are worth more now) and a bonus action to fix with a chance to fail and render the firearm useless 'till it can be fixed out of combat.
Targeting lowered to level 6 from 13 to compensate. This came online way to late to begin with and I'm much happier with it here.
Thrillin' Heroics lowered to 13 from 14.
ASI at level 14 now (6 ASI's overall up from 5). Want to look into a replacement ability that's less powerful than an ASI for this level though.
Gunslinger Dodge reworked, more balanced and flavourful. Can't be used to negate all crits now.
Streamlined available firearms.


Thoughts and Feelings:
I had a more clear direction this time with each of the archetypes; the gunslinger is a diverse class and there are many archetypes and tropes in literature. I wanted the archetypes to fill those tropes and not lock a player in to specific weapon types and fighting styles.

It's for this reason Deadshot was scaled down, streamlined and made a class feature.

Mysterious Stranger has become the 'in your face' action hero sort. He's fast. Really fast.
Stalker fills the roll of the 'Ranger/Rogue' with a gun, hopefully without stepping on either's toes.
Hexgun is the Witch with a gun.
Holy Gun is a gunslinging paladin, of whom I wanted to leave flavour open and allow them to choose their own tenets. Lawmen and Knight-Errant or edgy deliverer of dark vengeance.

With any major overhaul there's going to be balance issues, don't shoot me! Even with that in mind though I think this is closer to being ready for production than ever before.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Rerem115
2016-08-16, 04:26 PM
Eldritch Infusion is still too strong; you spend your bonus action to add the effects of the cantrip to your next attack, but you still get you full attack action. If it was written, "You spend your action infusing a bullet. If you do so, you can use your bonus action to make one attack. If the attack lands X happens", that would keep the intended effect without giving two rounds worth of damage. Also, maybe consider moving this to 7th level and the 7th level to 3rd? Eldritch Knights don't get to cast a cantrip and attack until 7th level.

Deadshot is more streamlined now, but now that every subclass has access to it, it's possible to do a lot of game breaking things. When used in conjunction with the aforementioned Eldritch Infusion or with Hexgun, you can get in very nearly an entire attack action's worth of damage, a spell or cantrip, and have a high likelihood of critically striking, which also imposes disadvantage on saves. The Holy Gun likes this too, because now they can roll with advantage and a critical range of 18-20 for all their smites. Finally, for just sheer damage, the Stalker takes the cake when it comes down to abusing Deadshot. Here's some math, assuming 18th level and a breech loading rifle (presumed weapon of choice for a high level character of this class):

6d12 (weapon and Deadshot) + 5d12 (Steady Aim + Sniper's Eye) x .8 (Hit chance with advantage) + (11d12 x .3) [Chance to crit with advantage] + 5 (Ability modifier) ~ 84 damage per round. You have a 30% chance of doing 22d12 damage in one round. To top it all off, you can do this at minimum three times per short rest (assuming 20 Cha), so assuming 2 short rests a day, 15 times a day.

If you really want to keep Deadshot as a feature, I'd recommend removing the part that grants advantage and making it so you can't use it in conjunction with Eldritch Infusion or Hexgun. At will advantage is just too strong when one of the classes has one half sneak attack, which turns into full sneak attack at 18th level. Thinking about that, Steady Aim and Sniper's Eye are also a bit on the strong side. Sneak attack is balanced by the fact that Rogues only get one attack per turn, but Gunslingers get 3-5, depending on their weaponry and fighting style. Also, Rogues don't get access to an expanded critical range without multiclassing (Yes, the assassin exists, but that's a very specific scenario). I'd recommend exchanging Sniper's Eye for something else entirely, and giving Steady Aim "one-third" sneak attack; 1d6 at 3rd, 2d6 at 7th, 3d6 at 13th, and 4d6 at 19th.

Wufflykins
2016-08-16, 06:29 PM
Eldritch Infusion is still too strong; you spend your bonus action to add the effects of the cantrip to your next attack, but you still get you full attack action. If it was written, "You spend your action infusing a bullet. If you do so, you can use your bonus action to make one attack. If the attack lands X happens", that would keep the intended effect without giving two rounds worth of damage. Also, maybe consider moving this to 7th level and the 7th level to 3rd? Eldritch Knights don't get to cast a cantrip and attack until 7th level.

I considered this, however; given that you have to decide before you roll and there is a save involved if you miss the next shot or they pass the save there's no bonus damage; thus wasting the bonus action hitting the 'Slinger in his most precious commodity which is action economy (without his bonus action he's basically a fighter with a slightly more powerful bow that has a 10-15% chance to explode every time he fires it). As for moving it, that's fair the hexgun as a class doesn't get cantrips, losing a measure of utility but if I swap it with Recall it should math out.

Deadshot is more streamlined now, but now that every subclass has access to it, it's possible to do a lot of game breaking things. When used in conjunction with the aforementioned Eldritch Infusion or with Hexgun, you can get in very nearly an entire attack action's worth of damage, a spell or cantrip, and have a high likelihood of critically striking, which also imposes disadvantage on saves. The Holy Gun likes this too, because now they can roll with advantage and a critical range of 18-20 for all their smites. Finally, for just sheer damage, the Stalker takes the cake when it comes down to abusing Deadshot. Here's some math, assuming 18th level and a breech loading rifle (presumed weapon of choice for a high level character of this class):

Hexgun (the 18th level class feature) is a single attack with a spell as a bonus action if you hit; simply put you can't cast a level 1+ spell and deadshot in the same round without multiclassing. At best you might layer a cantrip level effect on it.

Bearing in mind that Patience costs your bonus action and a grit point, Eldritch Infusion requires a bonus action; the two are entirely incompatible. You'd need another source of advantage for the ideal circumstance.

I'll wait 'till more people weigh in on this before I jump to change Eldritch Infusion, with two possible gateways to fail you're gambling your bonus action (giving up advantage or extra attacks from guns blazing), and an inability to force advantage on the attack makes me feel like this working well (and without the advantage you're still sitting on a 10% chance to misfire). That's the gunslinger way however, more risk than a bow or sword but big money payoff when it works. The trick is I need to calibrate the risk vs the payout.

Hexgun the feature is working on par with the Eldritch Knight's Improved War Magic (A single regular attack and a spell in the same round, with disadvantage if he's been hit in the last round).

6d12 (weapon and Deadshot) + 5d12 (Steady Aim + Sniper's Eye) x .8 (Hit chance with advantage) + (11d12 x .3) [Chance to crit with advantage] + 5 (Ability modifier) ~ 84 damage per round. You have a 30% chance of doing 22d12 damage in one round. To top it all off, you can do this at minimum three times per short rest (assuming 20 Cha), so assuming 2 short rests a day, 15 times a day.

I haven't had a chance to put the 'fluff' for the weapons in, but the advanced firearms are intended for a realm where firearms have become the dominant form of arms circa 1820's and later. It's up to a DM whether or not such a weapon is available. But yes it is powerful, mitigated (perhaps not enough I'll conceed) by it's high misfire (due to being a complex and delicate weapon) and the fact it needs to be reloaded after every shot (bearing in mind this costs an attack or an entire bonus action) which means you can't force advantage every round as you'll be spending your bonus action on reloads (and if you reload and fire every round, you can't do advantage in the next round either unless you set up something clever with your team, without the advantage it's 15% chance to misfire every shot).

See how that works out, even with abundant grit you can still only hit that hard every second round (and only with the breachloader which again is very campaign specific, I'll be sure to add those details in the notes though for clarity).

That being said, I've removed one Steady Aim die from the Stalker giving it 1/3rd sneak attack progression as suggested as that seemed very reasonable.

If you really want to keep Deadshot as a feature, I'd recommend removing the part that grants advantage and making it so you can't use it in conjunction with Eldritch Infusion or Hexgun. At will advantage is just too strong when one of the classes has one half sneak attack, which turns into full sneak attack at 18th level.

My biggest concern is that I want all the archetypes to benefit relatively equally from either Extra Attacks or Deadshot. I don't want the Hexgun or Holy Gun to be confined to extra attacks any more than I want the stalker to be confined to deadshot.

Basically the end goal is a Stalker doesn't feel punished for picking up a couple of pistols, and a Hex Gun that doesn't feel punished for raining elemental hell from the grassy knoll.

Everything goes to plan on paper, and when every little thing goes the gunslingers way he'll do more damage than other classes. For sure. But it's the risks it takes in the process. Each misfire costs it either an action, or a grit and a bonus action. This is what reigns him back in (theoretically); and god help him if he fails his tinker check, because then his gun is out of commission until the next short rest.

Rerem115
2016-08-16, 07:33 PM
I'll admit, I missed the part where it said you had to use your whole action to use Deadshot, so it should be safe to use with the Hexgun subclass. That said...



...mitigated (perhaps not enough I'll conceed) by it's high misfire (due to being a complex and delicate weapon) and the fact it needs to be reloaded after every shot (bearing in mind this costs an attack or an entire bonus action) which means you can't force advantage every round as you'll be spending your bonus action on reloads (and if you reload and fire every round, you can't do advantage in the next round either unless you set up something clever with your team, without the advantage it's 15% chance to misfire every shot).

See how that works out, even with abundant grit you can still only hit that hard every second round (and only with the breachloader which again is very campaign specific, I'll be sure to add those details in the notes though for clarity)


There are a few things this doesn't take into account: you only have a 2.25% chance of misfiring with the breech loader (less with any other weapon) with advantage, you can hand someone an object as part of an action, and the double barreled and pepperbox enhancements exist. Because you have such a low chance of misfiring, there's very low risk to using such a powerful weapon. You can also guarantee that you have advantage by either upgrading the weapon with double barrels or pepperbox (advantage every other turn/ 5 out of 6 turns) or by handing off your weapon at the end of your turn to an ally, who uses their bonus action to reload it before they hand it back to you.

I'll admit, I'd probably be fine with this, as the weapon upgrades are expensive and your allies like their bonus actions (unless they're some Dex Fighter :smalltongue:), except that Sniper's Eye is a thing. That ability gives so much damage to a class that already does a lot of damage, and gets so much out of an expanded critical range+advantage.

Wufflykins
2016-08-17, 08:45 AM
I should've made it clear that those enhancements can only be applied to simple/early firearms; you can't make a Pepperbox or Double Barrel Breachloader.

So that's my bad, but I'll fix it shortly.

Sniper's eye needs a tweak or a redesign, with the nerf to Steady Aim it's less ridiculous but still needs a change.

That's the salient point at the moment but other than that I feel like I'm close to a final product.

Changelog:

- Nerfed Smite for the Holy Gun, one less die per smite at all levels.
- Moved Divine Bond to 3rd level to compensate (in line with EK and Hexgun).
- Moved Divine Luck to 7th level (this feels like a more appropriate level to come online).
- Added Cleansing Touch to 15th; wanted to give the Holy Gun at least one thing outside of spellcasting that lets it play the 'Angel of Mercy' role. Lay on Hands and Aura of Courage felt like too much; I didn't want to steal any more from the Sacred Oaths either.

So a slight overall buff, more utility but less damage.

Still stuck on what to do with the stalker.

Made a small tweak to give more variety to the Mysterious Stranger's Third Level ability.

Still not sure this archetype competes with the others, but it's closer now; almost ready to publish though.

Improved the range of all firearms, to be more in line with 'reality' and balance.

Wufflykins
2016-08-21, 06:21 PM
Made a small tweak to give more variety to the Mysterious Stranger's Third Level ability.

Still not sure this archetype competes with the others, but it's closer now; almost ready to publish though.

illequidam
2016-12-16, 02:16 PM
This seems really cool! The dropbox link is dead. Do you have an updated final edition pdf? I'm thinking of offering this as a multiclass option partway through my next campaign.

Edit: Looks like you edited the original post as you went along. Thank you! Still got a pdf?

Wufflykins
2016-12-16, 07:59 PM
This seems really cool! The dropbox link is dead. Do you have an updated final edition pdf? I'm thinking of offering this as a multiclass option partway through my next campaign.

Edit: Looks like you edited the original post as you went along. Thank you! Still got a pdf?

I've been trying to keep the two synchronous as best I can (there's probably a few discrepancies). PDF link should be live (I put in the wrong one last time I updated. :\ )

Should be all good now!

Wufflykins
2016-12-16, 08:11 PM
On an unrelated note: I'd love to hear thoughts on revamping the hexgun more in the style of the new arcane archer?

Llama513
2016-12-17, 03:37 PM
While I like the Idea of the new fighting styles, getting a better free feat, which is what all but ranged does, seems too powerful for level 1, I would save the other options for later, and just give them the ranged style, possibly even tying the other options to the archetype options or something like that, I am just starting to look through the class but it looks intriguing.

Quick Draw is redundant, you can already draw a weapon as part of initiative, its your free item interaction, that and making it a feature, implies that other classes can't do that, I would recommend moving it to later and having it give advantage on initiative, or leave it where it is, and give them advantage on initiative but have it cost them a grit point or something like that.

Charmed Life is way to powerful, I would give them a number of uses a short rest, equal to their Charisma modifier, so that it works more like a self focused bardic inspiration, and I'd say only one dice added. For Thrillin' Heroics, allow them to add another D6 to the check A number of times equal to your Charisma Mod times a Long Rest

I like the ideas you have for the archetypes, however, they need reworking, some more than others,

For Mysterious Stranger, you gave them more better free feats, which I have already addressed, I would suggest just giving them the unarmored defense at 3rd level, snap shot is fine, I like fast as lightning, but as mentioned above drawing a weapon when initiative is rolled is just a thing you can do, what I would do for them at 10th level is to remove the loading property of their firearms as they have gotten so good at reloading their weapons, and/or give them a lowered misfire chance, because they are so good at loading the firearm properly, unbreakable and diehard I think are fine.

I like a lot of stalker, its just some little tweaks, I would either give them a choice of just two skills, I wouldn't bother with thieves tools, as it feels out of place with the rest of the class, Skirmisher I like with a bit of tweaking, keep the bonus action dash, I wouldn't mess with the range on the firearms, what I would instead do is give them a option that allows them to make a silent shot by spending a grit point, or give them the ability to fire in melee range here in addition to the dash. The other two abilities are fine.

I also really like hex gun, with a little bit of tweaking, the spells, and 3rd level abilities are fine, I really like the eldritch invocations, the only suggestion that I have is to make rime fang just give disadvantage on the next attack roll, beyond that the archetype is fine. Just be cautious of the range at which you allow them to fire spells, as I designed a spellslinger wizard archetype, and found that being able to shoot a fireball from just 1500 feet was stupid powerful, and with how you have it, you can fire at 1800 feet, which is a little ridiculous, the other thing that I incorporated was a slight risk for firing a arcane spell through the weapon, if you misfire while shooting a spell I added rolling on the wild magic table as the arcane energy was release suddenly

Holy gun is fine, just give them Heavy armor as they are supposed to be paladins

I like the upgrades and other equipment you came up with, but I would personally not mess with the guns, as I think that Matthew Mercer did a really good job designing and balancing them. As such I would recommend just working with his guns, and adding your equipment and upgrades, as those work quite nicely, I would give rifling a +1 to hit, as it does make the weapon more accurate, and helps to off balance the cost increase in addition to the range

Llama513
2016-12-17, 04:40 PM
On an unrelated note: I'd love to hear thoughts on revamping the hexgun more in the style of the new arcane archer?

That would be cool, but at the same time, I really like the Hexgun, if you made a separate archetype I think that would work better

Wufflykins
2016-12-17, 07:52 PM
While I like the Idea of the new fighting styles, getting a better free feat, which is what all but ranged does, seems too powerful for level 1, I would save the other options for later, and just give them the ranged style, possibly even tying the other options to the archetype options or something like that, I am just starting to look through the class but it looks intriguing.

These are powerful, definitely, but I've found they are necessary for the gunslinger to function within the confines of the 5e ruleset; mostly they're about giving them permission to work as normal. The reason they're here and not in the archetypes (as they previously were) is that I didn't want to lock each archetype into a specific style of fighting, 5e generally grants you freedom to build characters your own way and I want to mirror that here.

Quick Draw is redundant, you can already draw a weapon as part of initiative, its your free item interaction, that and making it a feature, implies that other classes can't do that, I would recommend moving it to later and having it give advantage on initiative, or leave it where it is, and give them advantage on initiative but have it cost them a grit point or something like that.

I was of the understanding that you would draw your weapon on your first turn in combat (as a free action as part of a move action). Page 190 of the PHB clarifies that drawing or sheathing a weapon is one of the things you can in tandem with your movement or action, which you can only do on your turn. The two martial archetypes already have a bonus to initiative - I definitely want to leave them being the 'faster' of the four archetypes.

Charmed Life is way to powerful, I would give them a number of uses a short rest, equal to their Charisma modifier, so that it works more like a self focused bardic inspiration, and I'd say only one dice added. For Thrillin' Heroics, allow them to add another D6 to the check A number of times equal to your Charisma Mod times a Long Rest

I like the idea of reigning in the frequency with which you can use it without relying on expending grit; but I'm a fan of the exploding dice side of things as well. What would you say about limiting it to Charisma per short rest but maintaining how it functions otherwise?

I like the ideas you have for the archetypes, however, they need reworking, some more than others.

Yeah, this is definitely where I need the most work done I'll conceed.

For Mysterious Stranger, you gave them more better free feats, which I have already addressed, I would suggest just giving them the unarmored defense at 3rd level, snap shot is fine, I like fast as lightning, but as mentioned above drawing a weapon when initiative is rolled is just a thing you can do, what I would do for them at 10th level is to remove the loading property of their firearms as they have gotten so good at reloading their weapons, and/or give them a lowered misfire chance, because they are so good at loading the firearm properly, unbreakable and diehard I think are fine.

Yeah if I was going to change one thing about the Mysterious Stranger it would be Blackpowder Bravado, I like what it is overall but the sub-abilities need to be rebalanced. I like gun-tank but it needs a rework, gambler is fun and thematic but I think needs to be reworked to be more mechanically interesting.
Wild-Card I think is good as-is. But I definitely want to keep the options as when I think of characters in westerns all of these things are archetypal.

I like a lot of stalker, its just some little tweaks, I would either give them a choice of just two skills, I wouldn't bother with thieves tools, as it feels out of place with the rest of the class, Skirmisher I like with a bit of tweaking, keep the bonus action dash, I wouldn't mess with the range on the firearms, what I would instead do is give them a option that allows them to make a silent shot by spending a grit point, or give them the ability to fire in melee range here in addition to the dash. The other two abilities are fine.

The stalker is representative of the 'Rogue/Ranger with a gun' - can be anything from the frontiersman to the urban bounty hunter. I'll take out the thieves tools, if a player really wants them there are plenty of backgrounds that let them build that character. The Silent Shot idea is pretty cool.

I also really like hex gun, with a little bit of tweaking, the spells, and 3rd level abilities are fine, I really like the eldritch invocations, the only suggestion that I have is to make rime fang just give disadvantage on the next attack roll, beyond that the archetype is fine. Just be cautious of the range at which you allow them to fire spells, as I designed a spellslinger wizard archetype, and found that being able to shoot a fireball from just 1500 feet was stupid powerful, and with how you have it, you can fire at 1800 feet, which is a little ridiculous, the other thing that I incorporated was a slight risk for firing a arcane spell through the weapon, if you misfire while shooting a spell I added rolling on the wild magic table as the arcane energy was release suddenly.

Yeah, the more I think about it I think Hexgun has the least work needed to be complete - it was revamped the most more recently than the others. Was that a port from the Pathfinder Spellslinger? I l oved that class (never got to play it though). Was much of the inspiration for this archetype. I like the change to Rimefang, giving it a little bit extra wouldn't hurt.

Holy gun is fine, just give them Heavy armor as they are supposed to be paladins

I actually feel the Holy Gun is the most awkward and mechanically wield and was likely first on the table for a complete rework. I was toying with the idea of removing spells from them entirely and making them like the 'Arcane Archer' except instead of Arcane Arrows you could bless your shots with Paladin-y effects (not unlike the smite spells). It fits better with my idea of a gunslinging paladin.

I like the upgrades and other equipment you came up with, but I would personally not mess with the guns, as I think that Matthew Mercer did a really good job designing and balancing them. As such I would recommend just working with his guns, and adding your equipment and upgrades, as those work quite nicely, I would give rifling a +1 to hit, as it does make the weapon more accurate, and helps to off balance the cost increase in addition to the range

Mercer's guns are actually pretty imbalanced (and incorrect) as far as range for blackpowder firearms goes - I used his misfire scores though as they were appropriate. The ranges I chose were modeled on my own experience with Smooth-bore muskets (which is not inconsiderable if I say so myself) and blackpowder rifles (I own a couple of Pedersoli Reproductions if that means anything to you). As far as Rifling goes I didn't want to hand out +ToHit bonus based on advancing technology - some games wont give you access to 'later period' firearms (that said Rifling was first developed around 1480). And more than accuracy specifically rifling gives you accuracy over range, a range increase makes the most in the context of a tabletop game.

All that said, you've given some great feedback and given me a lot to think about - I'll probably be implementing some of the changes over the next week. I appreciate you taking the time to write so much!

Wufflykins
2016-12-17, 10:21 PM
CHANGELOG:

Gun-Tank: Reworked to be more flavourful and less like the Medium Armour Master feat. It's probably a bit powerful at the moment but it's definitely more fun.
Charmed Life: Limited to Charisma uses per/short. Should be more balanced now - has the added effect of balancing Thrillin' Heroics as well.
Stalker Bonus Proficiencies: Removed Thieves' Tools as an option and reduced to 2 proficiencies gained.
Removed Range Bonuses from skirmisher. Added a 'silent shot' in it's place.

Llama513
2016-12-18, 06:23 PM
These are powerful, definitely, but I've found they are necessary for the gunslinger to function within the confines of the 5e ruleset; mostly they're about giving them permission to work as normal. The reason they're here and not in the archetypes (as they previously were) is that I didn't want to lock each archetype into a specific style of fighting, 5e generally grants you freedom to build characters your own way and I want to mirror that here.

That is fair, I would just be careful about them, but if you have play tested them and feel that they are necessary then I guess I just need to try them out.



I was of the understanding that you would draw your weapon on your first turn in combat (as a free action as part of a move action). Page 190 of the PHB clarifies that drawing or sheathing a weapon is one of the things you can in tandem with your movement or action, which you can only do on your turn. The two martial archetypes already have a bonus to initiative - I definitely want to leave them being the 'faster' of the four archetypes.

I was unaware of how exactly that worked thank you for clarifying.



I like the idea of reigning in the frequency with which you can use it without relying on expending grit; but I'm a fan of the exploding dice side of things as well. What would you say about limiting it to Charisma per short rest but maintaining how it functions otherwise?

I like that much better



Yeah if I was going to change one thing about the Mysterious Stranger it would be Blackpowder Bravado, I like what it is overall but the sub-abilities need to be rebalanced. I like gun-tank but it needs a rework, gambler is fun and thematic but I think needs to be reworked to be more mechanically interesting.
Wild-Card I think is good as-is. But I definitely want to keep the options as when I think of characters in westerns all of these things are archetypal.

That is a fair point about having the options, coming up with a really good option for Blackpowder Bravado is going to be tough.



The stalker is representative of the 'Rogue/Ranger with a gun' - can be anything from the frontiersman to the urban bounty hunter. I'll take out the thieves tools, if a player really wants them there are plenty of backgrounds that let them build that character. The Silent Shot idea is pretty cool.

Thanks I think it will work quite nicely.



Yeah, the more I think about it I think Hexgun has the least work needed to be complete - it was revamped the most more recently than the others. Was that a port from the Pathfinder Spellslinger? I l oved that class (never got to play it though). Was much of the inspiration for this archetype. I like the change to Rimefang, giving it a little bit extra wouldn't hurt.

I really do love this archetype, and yes that is a port of the Pathfinder Spellslinger, that I have play tested, the link is here http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?505580-Spellslinger-Arcane-Tradition-and-Two-Feats



I actually feel the Holy Gun is the most awkward and mechanically wield and was likely first on the table for a complete rework. I was toying with the idea of removing spells from them entirely and making them like the 'Arcane Archer' except instead of Arcane Arrows you could bless your shots with Paladin-y effects (not unlike the smite spells). It fits better with my idea of a gunslinging paladin.

I like that idea, I think it will work better, I would give them heavy armor proficiency as Paladins are known for heavy armor.



Mercer's guns are actually pretty imbalanced (and incorrect) as far as range for blackpowder firearms goes - I used his misfire scores though as they were appropriate. The ranges I chose were modeled on my own experience with Smooth-bore muskets (which is not inconsiderable if I say so myself) and blackpowder rifles (I own a couple of Pedersoli Reproductions if that means anything to you). As far as Rifling goes I didn't want to hand out +ToHit bonus based on advancing technology - some games wont give you access to 'later period' firearms (that said Rifling was first developed around 1480). And more than accuracy specifically rifling gives you accuracy over range, a range increase makes the most in the context of a tabletop game.

Fair enough



All that said, you've given some great feedback and given me a lot to think about - I'll probably be implementing some of the changes over the next week. I appreciate you taking the time to write so much!
Your very welcome I look forward to seeing where this class is going.