I Want a Challenge

[XBobbis]

Hi. As you can probably tell from the title, we (me and my friend) are looking for a challenge in a Video Game RPG.

But a fun challenge; we don't want to play Final Fantasy 7 over again with five or six stupid requirements (Initial Equipment, Command Materia Only, No Accessories, No Escape, No Physical Attacks, No Limit Breaks). Alternatively, we want a game that we can put enough time into to 'break' with a little bit of effort; the following is not really a spoiler, but otherwise this post would look huge.

Examples of what we've done in the past, some of these have details about the game, so don't worry if you don't know what I'm talking about (also this will probably sound a lot like bragging, but it's to get you an idea of what we're going for)

Disgaea (2): Get a character strong enough to one shot Prinny Baal. (Among my friends this sprouted the legend of Savarin; the Axe wielding warrior who could destroy anything with a Calamity Drive. Found this was easier in 2)

Final Fantasy 8: Beat Omega Weapon without leveling up. Entertaining note; Omega Weapon does not scale, he's always level 100.

Front Mission 4: Not hard in the main game, but completeing all the simulators could be difficult.

Kingdom Hearts (2): Kill Sephiroth...meh.

Halo (2): On Legendary Difficulty Co-Op.

Final Fantasy 2: We found that dual wielding shields would up your evasion really quick; fast enough that it got to 8-99 with a shield in one hand. This means the final boss of the game will never hit you...we accidentally found this out and did this before the second town.

Front Mission 3: Get entirely and only Platinum Medals in both storylines.

Final Fantasy Tactics: We manipulated various stats such as brave and speed to make our mage go first (gauranteed, pretty much) and then she hit the entire map with either flare or holy. Would deal almost max damage to every enemy and around 15 to our own characters; one shotted every map except bosses. Then Savarin came in dual wielding Nagarock and Excalibur; most combat was over in a turn...honestly it got kinda boring.

Currently we're working on Star Ocean: The Second Story with the goal of beating Indalecio with his limiter off on Universe difficulty. This speaks for itself if you've heard about it; we just got the game.

So, if anyone has any good suggestions for a challenging game, we perfer RPGs and SRPGs, but aren't big fans (aka don't like) competely twitch based games like Ninja Gaiden (which I understand is incredibly difficult). There's another in the list but I can't remember what it was...that's going to bug me until I can edit it back in.

Remember though, we'd like it to be fun. Oh, right; XBox, XBox2, PS2, Wii, and almost all previous systems are legit. If you've got a good SNES game, suggest it.

[Setra]

If you want a challenge.. you shouldn't be playing RPGs.

Offhand, I'd say Shadow Hearts can be challenging depending on how good you are with the battle system.

[XBobbis]

I dunno about that, Omega Weapon was still fairly difficult without leveling up. (No Holy Wars either.)

Front Mission 3 getting all Platinums was fairly difficult at times.

I understand that Indalecio is widely considered one of the most difficult bosses of all time.

[Setra]

I dunno about that, Omega Weapon was still fairly difficult without leveling up. (No Holy Wars either.)
Zell, Rinoa, Squall.

Easy win.

Zell can One Hit KO Omega if you're good.

The thing is though, is that difficulty in RPGs can easily be erased by leveling. Even the might Zeromus can fall if you're level 75 or so.

In many of them you have to make an actual effort 'not' to level up, in order for it to be 'hard'.

Indacelio is hard though, if his limiter is removed anyways.

However no boss I have ever fought has ever been as much of a challenge as, say, a gosu in SC (How do they DO that?), or say, trying to change the tide of battle in a Battlefield game, or many other games that require you to fight against other humans.

An RPG can always be beaten with time, but there are some humans you have no hope of beating, and that's part of the fun, I think.

[Jack_Banzai]

Finish Revelations: Persona for the PSOne having gotten every persona in the game, unlock the true ending, and 100% all of the dungeons. Hope you have a few hundred hours to kill.

[Elliot Kane]

I don't play many PS2 games, but recently I've been playing FF12, and it has the best system I've ever seen in a CRPG. So I'd definitely recommend that :)

Story is a bit wobbly, if you're a story person, but in terms of the system itself it's a great game :)

[Leper_Kahn]

I'd have you do Zelda: The Ocarina of Time without a guide... At all. Best of luck to you!

[JabberwockySupafly]

If you're looking for a challenge, do not play FFXII. I love the game, it's extremely enjoyable, but as for challenging, not even close. All you need is one item and one relic and you've just won almost every boss fight (spoiler contains what I am talking about, so if you haven't played, or don't wanna know, then don't look!)

i'm talking about the nihopalaoa & remedy combo. you equip nihopalaoa and use a remedy on the boss. nihopalaoa reverses the effect of an item, so potions deal damage and antidotes cause poison, imagine what remedy, which cures virtually all status effects, does...


For a challenge, I'd suggest Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King. Talk about an unforgiving game sometimes. A bit of grind involved, but a seriously great, and refreshingly challenging, console RPG.Plus, the bonus dungeons and whatnot can be seriously tricky.

Since someone mentioned Persona, which is based in the game world of one my favourite lesser-known franchises, I will submit a challenge from it as well. Here's a monstrous (or should I say, demonic?) challenge: Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne (called Lucifer's Call in Europe & Australia i believe). Beat the game, but also complete the demon list, and the optional boss fights and dungeons, and RECRUIT the optional and mainstream bosses (can be done later in the game). Oh yeah, and recruit Dante as well.(yes THE Dante from Devil May Cry).

Cheers
JS

[Krade]

The bonus dungeon in FFVI: Advance is scary. I went in there right after I beat the game and got my ass handed to me by a RANDOM ENCOUNTER! I've been too scared to try to go back in again.

All this is made especially difficult since the GBA version of the game got rid of the ol' Vanish-Doom trick.

[Krytha]

Finish the Ur-Quan Masters with no help. I would be amazed if you can do this on your first, second, or third try.

[Setra]

The bonus dungeon in FFIV: Advance is scary. I went in there right after I beat the game and got my ass handed to me by a RANDOM ENCOUNTER! I've been too scared to try to go back in again.

All this is made especially difficult since the GBA version of the game got rid of the ol' Vanish-Doom trick.
I think you mean FFVI.

The bonus dungeon in FFIV is a cakewalk, and Vanish Doom is only in FFVI =p. Actually I need to FIND the dungeon, I've already beat the one in FFIV, and don't want to bother with the one in FFV... actually.. Where IS my copy of FFVI.

Ps. You can make Celes and Terra nigh invincible with the right item set up. Multiple Illumina help.

[Maldraugedhen]

Gothic I and II, unless you play a mage in either. Have yet to really try III past the demo.

[Cpt. Sqweky]

Finish the Ur-Quan Masters with no help. I would be amazed if you can do this on your first, second, or third try.


Seconded. UQMs is a great game, but without help, you are s****ed.

[Krade]

I think you mean FFVI.

The bonus dungeon in FFIV is a cakewalk, and Vanish Doom is only in FFVI =p. Actually I need to FIND the dungeon, I've already beat the one in FFIV, and don't want to bother with the one in FFV... actually.. Where IS my copy of FFVI.

Ps. You can make Celes and Terra nigh invincible with the right item set up. Multiple Illumina help.

You are right. My bad. I did mean FFVI.
Heh. I only recently found out exactly how to get the Paladin Shield AND that it teaches Ultima. Before, I always got Ragnarok as the esper because I thought it was the only way to get Ultima.

But how do you get multiple Illuminas?

[Douglas]

Seconded. UQMs is a great game, but without help, you are s****ed.
The Ur-Quan Masters is an excellent free (legally so) (http://sc2.sourceforge.net/downloads.php) remake of a true masterpiece, but unfortunately for replay value, the challenge is almost entirely one of discovery. Once you figure out how to beat the game once it's not much of a challenge to beat it again in something like 5% of the time available. Until then, though, it is a good challenge. I'd suggest modifying the "no help" restriction to allow looking up certain critical conversation pieces from the original PC version of Star Control 2 that were omitted for no good reason from the 3DO version the UQM remake is based on.

[Zangor]

I'd have you do Zelda: The Ocarina of Time without a guide... At all. Best of luck to you!

Surely you mean 100% it without a guide? Just getting through and beating it is fairly easy.

[Setra]

You are right. My bad. I did mean FFVI.
Heh. I only recently found out exactly how to get the Paladin Shield AND that it teaches Ultima. Before, I always got Ragnarok as the esper because I thought it was the only way to get Ultima.

But how do you get multiple Illuminas?
Well normally you can't.. but in the new version, it is easily possible.

You can steal Ragnaroks from one of the forms of Kefka, simply put. Normally, this is just a Ragnarok, usable only in that exact battle. However FFVI Advance has Save Data after the ending.

This means unlimited Illumina, which, with Genji Gloves, mean that Celes and Terra (This also works for Locke and Edgar, but Celes and Terra are better), now have 100% Physical and Magical Evade, 14 to all stats, and have an attack power of 512 (highest possible), not to mention can randomly cast Holy twice per hit.

Give them Force Armor for 130% Magic Evade, and I believe there are items that give extra physical evade as well (Can Terra and Celes use Green Beret's? I think it's 10% Physical Evade, and 10% Bonus to health).

Edit: Er, more on topic. If you want a REAL challenge, try Ultima. The original one. Without reading any manuals or guides. Good luck finding out what the hell you're doing.

[Krade]

I see... I forgot about the stealing from the boss thing and that you can do it multiple time in the GBA Version. I think I'll try that then.

And yes. Do try the original Ultima. I remember playing that on our old computer when I was 8 or so. I'd never get very far but it was something to do. My brother always played Ultima VI and my dad and his friend MADE THEIR OWN STRATEGY GUIDE COMPLETE WITH MAP PRINTOUTS OF EVERY DUNGEON for Ultima V. Very, VERY little of it still exists, but they did it.

[Leper_Kahn]

Surely you mean 100% it without a guide? Just getting through and beating it is fairly easy.

Yeah of course. The main part really only takes perseverance.

[Alex Kidd]

Since someone mentioned Persona, which is based in the game world of one my favourite lesser-known franchises, I will submit a challenge from it as well. Here's a monstrous (or should I say, demonic?) challenge: Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne (called Lucifer's Call in Europe & Australia i believe). Beat the game, but also complete the demon list, and the optional boss fights and dungeons, and RECRUIT the optional and mainstream bosses (can be done later in the game). Oh yeah, and recruit Dante as well.(yes THE Dante from Devil May Cry).

Cheers
JS

I second this. Lucifer's Call as they call it down here, is an extremely fun and almost obscenely difficult game. Though dont play if you're sensitive about religion.