E6 Classes - what do YOU want to see?

[Gnorman]

Hey Playgrounders,

As you may or may not have noticed, I've been posting a lot of new base classes for the third iteration of my E6 Project (see the second here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?250820-Gnorman-s-Complete-E6-Compendium)). While I have about twenty base classes planned, I thought I'd turn the question over to you, and see what kind of classes (both base and prestige) you'd like to have available to you in the E6 environment.

To that end, here are a few of my design goals for the project:
- Fill dead levels with meaningful, game-changing options and abilities. Boosting numbers will, in most cases, not suffice.
- Eliminate caster dominance, primarily by replacing all prepared casters with fixed-list spontaneous casters.
- Give martial classes shiny things, or at least options in combat beyond "I hit it with my axe."
- Somehow do the above without making every class a spellcaster, although generally most non-spellcasting classes will have one (or more) spellcasting archetypes.
- Greater versatility: Floating bonus feats. Changeable weapon enhancements. Luck pools. Aggro-drawing.
- Find ways for all classes to interact fully with the action economy. Leave no swift action behind.
- Greater focus on per-encounter and at-will abilities, without making it seem too much like 4th Edition.
- Achieve a rough balance point of Tier 3 - Tier 4.
- Mimic some of the more popular

I've pretty much covered all of the class concepts included in the SRD (core 11 + psionics), plus a few concepts outside of that I felt deserved some love (primarily gishes and knowledge-based skillmonkeys, plus the much-anticipated Engineer). But beyond that, I'd love to hear from you. What concepts would you like to play in E6? What needs more love?

[AmberVael]

The invoker classes can always use more attention if you ask me. How about an E6 warlock?

[Eloel]

A representative for MoI and ToB subsystems would be nice to have. I find especially the incarnum mechanism to be a very fun one, but the incarnate, for instance, falls behind due to having nothing to use the superior numbers with.

[Ralcos]

I KNOW I'll be a black sheep here, but could you add in the Truenamer and Shadowcaster to this list of E6 classes?
I have a feeling that if you do this (with possibly needed modifications), they'll be better classes.

[ngilop]

I would love to see a rogue/cleric hybrid class

something along the lines of like bless once per encounter at 1st level, that at like 4th level he bonuses increase to +2 and maybe a capstone of like... a holy rage like ability or something

At 2nd level allowing sneak attacks on undead



I think an alchemist would be awesome too, make it a non spell casting sort of combination between the PF alchemist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist) and the 3rd party Scholar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/tripod-machine/scholar), that way you have a Int-based mundane character

[Ralcos]

I would love to see a rogue/cleric hybrid class

something along the lines of like bless once per encounter at 1st level, that at like 4th level he bonuses increase to +2 and maybe a capstone of like... a holy rage like ability or something

At 2nd level allowing sneak attacks on undead


Sounds a lot like the 4e Avenger. They're actually pretty awesome.

[Gnorman]

The invoker classes can always use more attention if you ask me. How about an E6 warlock?

Some kind of invoking class (perhaps named, rather obviously, the Invoker, as I've stolen the term "Warlock" for another class) is definitely on the table. DMofDarkness was kind enough to write one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13624564&postcount=11) as a contribution to the second version of my E6 project, but I've always wanted to perfect one of my own.


A representative for MoI and ToB subsystems would be nice to have. I find especially the incarnum mechanism to be a very fun one, but the incarnate, for instance, falls behind due to having nothing to use the superior numbers with.

Agreed here as well. MoI and ToB are the two subsystems that I'd probably have to expand out into multiple base classes each, to encompass the various options. I don't think something like Warblade or Totemist would be best expressed as an archetype. I'm not super well-versed on incarnum, though I do have the book and find it an interesting and fun mechanic. But I do agree that in the E6 world, they have very disappointing capstone abilities.

Rizban wrote a Shaper class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13624562&postcount=10) you might find interesting.


I KNOW I'll be a black sheep here, but could you add in the Truenamer and Shadowcaster to this list of E6 classes?
I have a feeling that if you do this (with possibly needed modifications), they'll be better classes.

Hey now, no need to be ashamed of yourself there. All of the ToM classes need some work in the E6 environment (Binder perhaps least of all, but still). I'd love to see the Shadowsmith class represented in E6, as that's a really fun and useful ability there.


I would love to see a rogue/cleric hybrid class

something along the lines of like bless once per encounter at 1st level, that at like 4th level he bonuses increase to +2 and maybe a capstone of like... a holy rage like ability or something

At 2nd level allowing sneak attacks on undead

I think an alchemist would be awesome too, make it a non spell casting sort of combination between the PF alchemist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist) and the 3rd party Scholar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/tripod-machine/scholar), that way you have a Int-based mundane character

I've always had trouble coming up with a good concept for a rogue/cleric hybrid (at least, besides the Monk, which doesn't quite accomplish what you're driving at here). Maybe some kind of "divine focus" ability akin to rage, or a feature that lets her strikes be guided by her deity into the place they do the most damage (crit-based abilities).

As far as the Int-based mundane character, I've got my own version (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?482278-The-Scholar-(E6-Project-v3-PEACH)) of a Scholar class, and the as-of-yet-not-updated-for-version-3 Engineer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13624538&postcount=4), which is basically a non-spellcasting Alchemist in a lot of ways (bombs, serums, weird gadgets, etc.). Do those line up with what you're looking for, or is there a slightly different concept you're going for with that? That Pathfinder Scholar looks very much like a generic build-your-own-class concept, which, while fine for some, is not my preferred method of class design. Mine's a bit more focused on combat (inspired by the Factotum) and less on general knowledge.


Sounds a lot like the 4e Avenger. They're actually pretty awesome.

I'll have to check out the Avenger for ideas. I imagine a rogue/cleric hybrid would excel at single target damage, plus some sort of smite feature? Mobility, isolation, lockdown?

[pieman2945]

I'll have to check out the Avenger for ideas. I imagine a rogue/cleric hybrid would excel at single target damage, plus some sort of smite feature? Mobility, isolation, lockdown?

You're imagining pretty much perfectly. They're 'strikers,' (I don't know how familiar you are with 4e) which make them a single target damage dealer. They have an Oath, where they mark someone and roll twice to hit them along with an extra bonus centered around locking them down or forcing them to attack you.

[Gnorman]

You're imagining pretty much perfectly. They're 'strikers,' (I don't know how familiar you are with 4e) which make them a single target damage dealer. They have an Oath, where they mark someone and roll twice to hit them along with an extra bonus centered around locking them down or forcing them to attack you.

That's all well and good, but I'm a little confused as to how this meshes with the "cleric" portion of the hybrid. Do they get a lot of buff spells?

I'm vaguely conversant in 4e, so I'm familiar with the class role terminology. But I haven't really checked out the later books.

[Ralcos]

That's all well and good, but I'm a little confused as to how this meshes with the "cleric" portion of the hybrid. Do they get a lot of buff spells?

I'm vaguely conversant in 4e, so I'm familiar with the class role terminology. But I haven't really checked out the later books.

They use the power of their god to hunt down their enemies, whether enemies of their god or of the adventure at hand.

Here's a link to a 4e wiki (which somehow exists) that explains some of the basic mechanics of the class.
http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Avenger

And, without going into THAT much detail, they do actually have a lot of self-buffing abilities in 4e. Mostly against their Oath of Enmity target, but still.

[Gnorman]

They use the power of their god to hunt down their enemies, whether enemies of their god or of the adventure at hand.

Here's a link to a 4e wiki (which somehow exists) that explains some of the basic mechanics of the class.
http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Avenger

And, without going into THAT much detail, they do actually have a lot of self-buffing abilities in 4e. Mostly against their Oath of Enmity target, but still.

The isolation part of the class certainly seems to be the most unique part - the 3.5 rogue/cleric hybrid that I'm cooking up in my head right now would gain bonus damage against foes that none of their allies threaten, I suppose? And perhaps get some sort of ability to move with their quarry if it tries to run away. Perhaps some inspiration from the Favored Soul, or a blessing mechanic that gives them mobility and attack bonuses, but may be consumed to gain a smite effect. Maybe a sort of divine warlock?

Just spitballing. Love to hear your thoughts on the ideas.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Some sort of Summoner might be interesting. Perhaps it could get some sort of companion critter, so that it can do its whole summoning thing as often as it likes without needing to waste spell slots. Perhaps as this Summoner gains levels, it can lower the casting cost of Summon X spells, with a high level (For e6) Summoner getting to cast his spells for like, Swift or Move actions. :smallwink:

(As a side note, Gnorman, the Summoner class you have on the first page of the 2nd iteration, in the "alternate classes" segment isn't actually the up-to-date one. There's an extra paragraph in the Companion segment. Mainly just about Hit Dice, alignment and how it's willing to follow dangerous orders.)

[Gnorman]

Some sort of Summoner might be interesting. Perhaps it could get some sort of companion critter, so that it can do its whole summoning thing as often as it likes without needing to waste spell slots. Perhaps as this Summoner gains levels, it can lower the casting cost of Summon X spells, with a high level (For e6) Summoner getting to cast his spells for like, Swift or Move actions. :smallwink:

(As a side note, Gnorman, the Summoner class you have on the first page of the 2nd iteration, in the "alternate classes" segment isn't actually the up-to-date one. There's an extra paragraph in the Companion segment. Mainly just about Hit Dice, alignment and how it's willing to follow dangerous orders.)

GEE I WONDER WHO WROTE THAT CLASS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13624562&postcount=10)

(will fix the oversight error)

But on a serious note, yeah, I think a class whose entire schtick is the companion critter, like the PF summoner, would be a good fit for the E6 environment, and something I haven't explored myself.