Planning on a 1-20 level campaign.

[Alfredo094]

So, some backstory. Some friends and I are playing the Tyranny of Dragons campaign (currently level 3), and I'm currently a PC in that one. Problem is, I really like this game, and seeing the DM has gotten me interested in DM'ing my own game (even if I'm a total beginner at this, but all my friends are and we're making it work).

Well, since we get together each 15 days (he gets tired of being the DM so he prefers for it to be unfrequent), I talked to the DM and said that after this campaign was finished and people still wanted to play, I could DM next. Later he said we could run it parallel and play with the people that are available (maybe 3-4 people instead of the 6 we usually play with).

I've read a bit about D&D trying to optimise my character, and I've seen some really interesting house rules on Roll20 on some games, and high-level play seems to be really cool. I was thinking of making some homebrew rules and let them use homebrew classes and stuff and run a whole level 1-20 campaign.

However, as I looked into the official campaign, they never went above level 15, so I thought about strapping a level 15-20 campaign to it (I'm picking Out of the Abyss for 1-15). I couldn't find any campaign on that level, though.

So, the bottom line is, should I adjust the campaign? Maybe look more? Anything I should be considering? Any cool homebrew rules I may be unaware of? Stuff like that.

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: Also I'd like an alternative way of getting stats (not 27-point buy nor rolling 4d6).

[Ninja_Prawn]

Perhaps it might be a good idea to wait until you get into the campaign before you start planning for levels 16 to 20? The characters should have well-established personalities by that point, and they will probably want to pursue some personal goals. Perhaps they decide to build a castle at some point... then their level 16 quest could be defending that castle against some minor villain from the previous chapter of campaign... who has made a pact with Asmodeus and brought the legions of the Hells to your doorstep in an epic quest for revenge!

My vote is for 3d6-in-order. It's hilarious, though it definitely needs some kind of safety net if you aren't happy to generate new characters twice a session. :smallamused:

[Alfredo094]

That actually seems like a good idea! Our current campaign has almost been completely combat oriented, so I was thinking that, if they agreed to, make it more balanced in roleplay, even talking individually to them for their characters, with incentives to play the character and stuff like that.

As for stats, 3d6 (in order to boot, lol) seems awfully bad. I'd like it to not be chance, but let them have a high stat or something, so they can have clear strengths and weaknesses that I can exploit (i.e. if a Fighter has 18 STR but 5 INT I can exploit both). This is something that 27-point buy won't let me do. I was thinking of spreading 70 something points across their six stats or something like that.

[Ninja_Prawn]

That actually seems like a good idea! Our current campaign has almost been completely combat oriented, so I was thinking that, if they agreed to, make it more balanced in roleplay, even talking individually to them for their characters, with incentives to play the character and stuff like that.

Yeah. Given that your starting premise is that you want a long-running campaign that will presumably involve great deeds and epic plots, I would definitely advise you to work in some character development. The characters should have their own motivations and goals, and in a campaign of that length, they should be able to fulfill some of them.


I was thinking of spreading 70 something points across their six stats or something like that.

That could work, as long as people don't start asking to use a 20/20/20/4/3/3 spread with a 3 or 4 in INT... :smallannoyed:

[pwykersotz]

I agree with the stealthy shell-fish, wait until you start approaching the end of the module before you design the endgame. You'll have a much stronger idea of everything at that time. But good luck! 1-20 campaigns are a lot of work and time, and also a lot of awesomeness. :smallsmile:

[Reaper34]

not to discourage you from running your own campaign. it's just a suggestion but maybe do a bit of work on some encounters, not even short campaigns just encounters, and run a DM arena or 2 after your regular sessions. it lets you get the feel of DMing and helps you work out the kinks in your style. a good way to identify where you need work and where you don't without getting into the middle of THE GAME and going oh crap i really need to work on that. doesn't just have to be combat encounters either. most players will help you if they know it will help you help them by DMing a good game.

just a thought.

[Alfredo094]

Yeah. Given that your starting premise is that you want a long-running campaign that will presumably involve great deeds and epic plots, I would definitely advise you to work in some character development. The characters should have their own motivations and goals, and in a campaign of that length, they should be able to fulfill some of them.



That could work, as long as people don't start asking to use a 20/20/20/4/3/3 spread with a 3 or 4 in INT... :smallannoyed:


Oh, if they wanted to min-max, I'll make sure to punish them for that. I know INT is usually a dump stat, but I'd make frequent checks and whatnot in order to lose them or something. I'll talk character creation with them anyway.

Just gonna find a way to use maps and stuff and I'll start getting ready for it!

[Reaper34]

Oh, if they wanted to min-max, I'll make sure to punish them for that. I know INT is usually a dump stat, but I'd make frequent checks and whatnot in order to lose them or something. I'll talk character creation with them anyway.

Just gonna find a way to use maps and stuff and I'll start getting ready for it!

my opinion but "i'll make sure to punish them for that" is usually something a dm shouldn't do. some characters are built where it makes sense to min max them. better solution would be to limit the players to one 3 and one 20 stat the rest have to fall inbetween. or require a min 6 in all but one stat or something. punishing players for playing their character the way they want to isn't a very good answer IMO.

[Alfredo094]

my opinion but "i'll make sure to punish them for that" is usually something a dm shouldn't do. some characters are built where it makes sense to min max them. better solution would be to limit the players to one 3 and one 20 stat the rest have to fall inbetween. or require a min 6 in all but one stat or something. punishing players for playing their character the way they want to isn't a very good answer IMO.

I don't think it would be a good idea if I was actually just punishing them, but I'd plan to reward their strengths as well, and I wouldn't be sadistic either way. And anyway my friends like failing too, because they have fun on exaggerations and stuff.

Anyway I'll keep this suggestion in mind, though.

[MBControl]

I'm in a small group that has the same issue. So my friend and I take turns DMing. We've made one world map, that both of us base our campaigns on. It's pretty fun actually, our characters get to play for both DM's, and events of the world carry over to both campaigns. We have VERY little pre-planned events. A few to get things started, and the rest evolves from there. You have 15 levels of stuff going down. You are going to create side story lines whether you want to or not. When level 15 is wrapped up, use that opportunity to open up the world, and start exploring it using the events of the previous 15 levels as a guide.

Believe me, you won't run out of stuff to do. Plus you should have more XP as a group, and time played as a player/DM that yours decisions will come more naturally.

Have fun!

[MrStabby]

So a few things that I like to do; I am not saying these are right for your group but they work for me.

1) Pick a starting level. It doesn't have to be 1. I like to start at level 4 as it gives a character a bit of a chance to have the kind of background that wouldn't be developed in the story and the chance to have some experiences/secrets that set them apart form the rest of the party. Levels 1-4 go past in a flash anyway so dn't worry about shortening your campaign. These are the training wheels levels and your players have played before...

2) Pick an aim and a style and be clear on it in advance. I decided my aim as DM was to make all skills and stats equally useful and to ban certain skills. Things like persuasion I removed (it is very difficult to be consistent and fair with this whilst also not allowing social interactions to dominate the narrative). This has meant knowledge checks in combat to identify weaknesses (most monsters were tweaked or homebrewed to avoid meta-knowledge having an influence) and plenty of spaces where athletics or acrobatics could be used to gain a small advantage.

3) Set up a world and forces that act in that world that interest you. Play an RPG yourself but instead of fleshing out and developing individual characters do it with factions and nations. The more engaged you are the more details you will add and develop and the richer your world will be to explore.

4) Make the world consistent but scalable in challenge. You will need a world where there is a reason why dragons won't crush empires and empires will not crush dragons. You need a world where there exist low level and high level encounters. Thankfully in 5th bounded accuracy makes this more reasonable.

5) One thing I am thinking of doing, is suggesting that each player creates a description of their character and how they want it to develop and the other players develop a 3 level prestige class that could be taken to help fulfil that character and make it distinctive from other otherwise similar characters. This might require a little more experience to get right from me, and might be brave for you as well.

6) Consider a break point for rebuilds, allow this for yourself as well. If you need to nerf some enemies or if you need to boost some magic items you gave out than have an agreed point where you will have a review. Use this point to discuss the style of the campaign and get some feedback. Find 5 points you have screwed up. They will be there and keeping an open mind will help everyone have fun.

7) Consider how you will manage rests. This profoundly determines the difficulty of the game and the balance between classes. You don't have to be rigid about encounters per day etc. but I recommend your campaign world has an inbuilt rhythm and clock to it such that taking a day off after every encounter is a really bad thing to do.

8) Be really cautious with magic items, also make them fun. A +1 sword seems modest but can actually turn a very hard encounter into just a pretty difficult one. If the players are hitting on a 16+ and your turn it into a 15+ then it is a 20% increase in damage. Even worse it adds little to the players in terms of choice of action or tactical depth. I would recommend giving nothing out that is magical till about level 8 or 9 - and it lets them feel special and I would try and ensure that they open up some new options rather than just being a flat boring upgrade. On the other hand, be careful that giving options doesn't step on others toes. If you have a wizard/sorcerer then don't give a wand of fireballs to the party as it means the caster loses their special thing.

9) Consider offering small upgrades that are meaningful to the character. They will probably be better remembered than a mere magic item. One thing I sometimes do is to allow researching spells and the reward can be that they are at the "wrong" level. A level 7 character that can have researched a spell equivalent to a level 2 spell that they can cast out of level 1 slot is not really overpowered but it adds a little extra power especially at the end of a long adventuring day or when it is a bit of a niche spell.

10) I have tried a couple of ways of managing stats and I think that point by is the best. I know you don't like it but I suggest you start off by considering what the attributes of a good set of character stats are (good in sense of a fun game for everyone) and then think of what process will be most likely to deliver that array.