What can an Eldritch Knight (or any fighter) do out of Combat?

[Teapot Salty]

Hey guys. So I'm thinking about playing a fighter for a campaign I'm going to play in, and I'd like to know how I can contribute to the party out of combat. The game isn't really going to be "kick in the door" style, and I'd like to avoid being the guy who just kind of reads a book in the corner while out of combat. Thanks, and as always, go nuts.

[mgshamster]

You can use your skills or your background feature. If you have feats, you could pick up ritual caster and cast ritual spells that are not on your spell list.

But most importantly, you can interact with the world through roleplaying.

[CantigThimble]

Hey guys. So I'm thinking about playing a fighter for a campaign I'm going to play in, and I'd like to know how I can contribute to the party out of combat. The game isn't really going to be "kick in the door" style, and I'd like to avoid being the guy who just kind of reads a book in the corner while out of combat. Thanks, and as always, go nuts.

Other classes are going to have opportunities to contribute out of combat handed to them on a silver platter, you're going to need to work harder. Think about your background feature and skills and how they could help in any situation you find yourselves in. The main thing is just to stay active in interacting with the environment. If you sit back and wait for another party member to ask for your help then you will be the guy who sits in the corner with a book.

The only thing a fighter will be in a vaccum is strong and tough, which is pretty useful in a decent number of situations outside combat but not a lot, so focus on improvisation. You might also want to look over the equipment list extra carefully. By staying observant you can save resources, like spells, the party might otherwise spend carelessly to solve their problems.

I'm actually considering making my next character a Champion Fighter just to practice this kind of thinking without relying so much on spells or other class abilities.

[wunderkid]

Basically what everyone else has said, focus on the character and how he would react. Bounded accuracy means most people won't be vastly better than you at out of combat skills. But if you really want a bump look at dipping a couple of levels into bard, or one into rogue. Both will give you a free skill and doubling your proficiency in a pair of skills.

[Sigreid]

Consider making Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma your second highest stat and taking a few skills out of that attribute's tree. Charisma is particularly good as the bard may be Mr. Personality but it's a good bet that guards and warriors will have a respect for you as a brother in arms making it easier for you to ingratiate yourself into their confidence.

[Cybren]

EKs in particular also get a handfull of spells (in addition to their one spell of any school) that have crossover potential out of combat, like darkness, or gust of wind, to say nothing of their cantrips, which could be any wizard cantrip (so fan-favorite ultra-versatile prestidigitation might be up your alley). You can increase this utility with feats like magic initiate or ritual caster, and you can lean on your physical ability scores, skill proficiencies (especially athletics, odds are you have a good strength mod), and creative use of class features ("I have a d10 hit die and second wind we don't need a soft landing I'll just jump from the tower window, and then open the locked door from the outside!")

[Vogonjeltz]

Hey guys. So I'm thinking about playing a fighter for a campaign I'm going to play in, and I'd like to know how I can contribute to the party out of combat. The game isn't really going to be "kick in the door" style, and I'd like to avoid being the guy who just kind of reads a book in the corner while out of combat. Thanks, and as always, go nuts.

Depends on if you go champion, battle master or ek

[dragsvart]

Just a few ways:

EK: get find familiar and use it to scout/help with everything
Outlander + Decent WIS: act as off ranger
DEX based fighter and Criminal background: act as off rogue
Decent INT + INT based background: INT based skills
Decent CHA: act as Face

all of these can help fill a void in the party if needed.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

EKs specifically, if in a party with no wizard, might have the highest INT, so you could leverage those skills.

[Temperjoke]

Your character is not just your class. Your background can provide opportunities for non-combat, for example. Is your character a peasant who's embraced a larger destiny, or a bored noble who's a little in over his head? Maybe your character knows things that the others don't, such as who the best person to talk to might be in a town? A soldier is going to be able to tell things about larger city's guard that wouldn't be noticed by an untrained eye. Your race can open doors that might not be available to the other members, such as dwarves being more willing to talk to other dwarves. Who is your character?

You mentioned an Eldritch Knight. Available spells aside, there is the implication of a certain amount of magical knowledge and training. It won't be as extensive as a full wizard of course, but logically you'd know some things that ordinary people wouldn't. It's already been mentioned that there are feats that can expand your magical utility if you feel that is an area you can help out in.

Proficiency in various tools and kits can also do wonders for out of combat interactions. Maybe you can accompany the bard on a drum, or help the cleric with your medical kit knowledge? The local blacksmith might cut you a deal if your hands haven't forgotten how to hold a hammer and tongs? That farmer might let you stay the night and give you a good meal, if you know how to properly fix his wagon.

[Tanarii]

Str/Int EK builds lend themselves well to the Sage background. You'll be good at all Int checks, but really good at Arcana and History. And the Research background feature is amazing in the right Campaign. Plus you'll be a polyglot.

Dex Fighter Builds work great with Charlatan (needs a bit of Cha too), Criminal or Urchin backgrounds. Those all give useful skills and tools. And the False Identiy feature is fantastic.

Either way, you get extra feats you can use to expand your repertoire. Keen Intellect, Observant & maybe Linguist for Int. Dungeon Delver if you're a trapmeister. Actor for a charlatan. And Skilled to add more proficiencies.

Other fun backgrounds are Sailor for navigation, Outlander to be a guide, Guild Artisan or Folk Hero with Cartographer's Tools.

[djreynolds]

A fighter has 7 feats, can easily afford the skilled feat.

The scout archetype rocks.

At early levels, your proficiency is only +2 to +3, no one is an expert.

Socially, fighters should select intimidation or history and both are good skills

[Troacctid]

You can also use the rest of your party.

"I think we should scout out the area. Mialee, could you send your familiar ahead to take a look?"

"I don't trust this guy. Gimble, you have good social skills, can you get him to reveal his true motives?"

"Wait! Don't open the chest yet! Lidda, can you check it for traps first?"

"Hmm, I've got a weird feeling about this room. Morthos, are you pinging anything on your Detect Magic ability?"

You shouldn't be tuning out when your character isn't in the spotlight. It's a team game, and you have the whole team at your disposal. Pay attention, be creative, and use all your resources—not just the ones on your own character sheet.

Think about the environment, too. There are resources all around you. What sort of NPCs are in this town who might be able to help us? What kind of items could help with our current problems, and can we buy them at the general store? Do we have any contacts in the area who could give us extra information? Your background (or the background of a teammate!) may help here, as many backgrounds provide you with valuable connections or resources, e.g. the Sage, Criminal, Noble, and Sailor background features.

[Slipperychicken]

I played an EK who was very useful outside combat, despite dumping intelligence and charisma. I'll tell you some things I did:

-Squeezed the most out of cantrips, in particular mending and mage hand.
-Took the identify spell. Nobody else in my gaming group plays arcane casters, so it was a godsend.
-Thieves' tools proficiency. He only had 14 dex, but he was the only one in the party who could open chests and doors quietly without breaking them. He also used it to quietly defeat traps, windows, and other obstacles.
-Kept a crowbar on him to open doors more quickly when needed. His massive strength helped with this.
-Packed rope, grappling hooks, and other useful things. His strength score also meant he was good at throwing a grappling hook accurately.
-Was utterly relentless in seeking out and securing valuables. His party frowned on it, but those practices earned them a considerable amount of gold.

The bonded weapon feature also has some non-combat uses if you're creative. For an easy one, you can turn in your weapons before walking into the king's court, and feel safer because you can always poof it back into your hand if desired. You can even bond an ally's weapon for your second bond, just so you can quickly re-arm him too. You can also use it to secure a rope or something, then teleport it away to undo it. If you find some way to store stuff inside the weapon (a smuggling compartment in the handle? One of those smuggling canes?), you could use that for some shenanigans, perhaps stowing a spare holy symbol and/or arcane focus in case your party winds up stripped of their inventory.


But I think the most important thing you can do is to keep all your tools and skills in mind at all times, and constantly look for ways you can use them to interact with the environment. All the utility spells in the world aren't worth 2 copper if you never remember to use them. Even if you don't have much to work with, getting proactive about this stuff can magnify your usefulness both in combat and out.

[greenstone]

> What can an Eldritch Knight (or any fighter) do out of Combat?

The same thing every other class can do out of combat.

Leverage your skills, background and personality.

Is your fighter a take-charge character, who controls the battle and tells everyone what to do in combat? Then they should do the same out of combat. For example, when you arrive in a new town, tell the characters what to do. "Charlie, you take care of the horses, Baker, check out the rooms, Able, go see the town guard, find out what the local laws are about carrying weapons in town."

Is your fighter a merchant? If so, you'll be the one negotiating for rooms and passage and selling loot. An entertainer? You'll be the one arranging an invite to the Duke's feast. A soldier? You'll be the one talking to the local guard to reassure them that a heavily armed group of mercenaries poses no threat to their town. A sage? You'll be the one taking notes on the strange writings carved into the wall. What, the wizard has more INT than you? So what? You've had 15 years of lectures and assignments at the hardest library on the Sword Coast.

If nothing else, your fighter has a voice, right? Just butt in to conversations.

[Sigreid]

> What can an Eldritch Knight (or any fighter) do out of Combat?

The same thing every other class can do out of combat.

Leverage your skills, background and personality.

Is your fighter a take-charge character, who controls the battle and tells everyone what to do in combat? Then they should do the same out of combat. For example, when you arrive in a new town, tell the characters what to do. "Charlie, you take care of the horses, Baker, check out the rooms, Able, go see the town guard, find out what the local laws are about carrying weapons in town."

Is your fighter a merchant? If so, you'll be the one negotiating for rooms and passage and selling loot. An entertainer? You'll be the one arranging an invite to the Duke's feast. A soldier? You'll be the one talking to the local guard to reassure them that a heavily armed group of mercenaries poses no threat to their town. A sage? You'll be the one taking notes on the strange writings carved into the wall. What, the wizard has more INT than you? So what? You've had 15 years of lectures and assignments at the hardest library on the Sword Coast.

If nothing else, your fighter has a voice, right? Just butt in to conversations.

This is halarious to me as while we work together well no one in my group follows orders.

[Tanarii]

This is halarious to me as while we work together well no one in my group follows orders.That can make giving them particularly funny.

[Grod_The_Giant]

You have pretty much the same access to skills as anyone who's not a Rogue or Bard, so you're not that far behind. EK can potentially take a utility spell or two; Champion basically has Jack-of-all-Trades for physical skills. Battlemaster is really the only loser there. Plus, as mentioned, you can afford to take a feat like Magic Initiate or Ritual Caster more than most. (Magic Initiate would be a great choice as a Variant Human, easing you into the mage thing with one of the melee cantrips, Find Familiar and Prestidigitation or something)

[djreynolds]

When there is masscal in the service, sometimes even the SF guys are just sitting around, its not their realm. But they can help, if shown how and directed.

A paladin just happens to have a high charisma, but a fighter should select resilient wisdom and so should have a respectable wisdom, say a 14. You can grab insight, custom background. You can grab medicine.

You can grab one level of rogue also. That is why the fighter and rogue exist, easily multiclassed into.

[JakOfAllTirades]

If you play an Eldritch Knight, you have excellent melee/ranged weapons, so you don't have to rely on attack cantrips; choose utility cantrips instead. The more versatile, the better. Prestidigitation has been mentioned, but my personal favorites are Message and Minor Illusion. Message basically lets you quietly pass a note to any other character, PC or NPC, which is quite useful for RP purposes. And there is simply no way to list all the uses for Minor Illusion, as long as you keep it simple.

[JumboWheat01]

A Fighter, outside of skills and what-not, is really good at one thing, fighting. It's a reason they're called Fighters, not Warriors. How can you use that to your advantage? Let's say you find yourself in a small town, beset by nasty, nasty goblins. Your Paladin and Rangers would simply hunt them down, one out of desire to serve their code, the other out of unnatural hatred of the little things. Your Barbarian would simply kill them in a rage because he can.

You? Sure, you can fight them, or you can train others to fight them. Who knows basic martial combat better than you? No one. Train up some town members into a small militia. Those goblins will think twice about attacking the town if they realized the town could easily fight back. You can teach them how best to wear that armor, how to swing that weapon more effectively. You don't rely on fancy super-natural abilities to get the job done (Eldritch Knight aside, but that's still attached to the base Fighter,) so anyone can follow your footsteps and learn how to go to battle.

[mgshamster]

Here's the thing - when you think of your character as only their class (and not as a whole person), you'll feel limited by what they can do.

But when you think of them as a whole person, where their class is just one aspect of that person, it opens up the possibilities.

Think of yourself. What do you specialize in? What would be your modern day class? Are you a student? A scientist? A programmer? A cop? A service-member? A clerk? An athlete?

Is your job (aka your class for this example) the only thing you can do in life? If you're a student and you're in a situation that doesn't involve sitting in a class room or doing homework, are you useless? Are you unable to involve yourself with anything besides learning? Can you not assist in a fight? Are you unable to talk to anyone outside of school events?

When you ask "What can a fighter do besides fight?" you're basically asking, "What can an athlete do besides sports," or "what can a student do besides learn" or "what can a chemist do besides chemistry" or "what can a soldier do besides make war," etc. The answer to all of these are the same: quite a bit more.

Think of your character as a whole person and your options open up tremendously.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Think of your character as a whole person and your options open up tremendously.
To be fair, "what noncombat abilities can I get" is a very valid question. Roleplaying is all well and good, but it's even better when you have tools to use with roleplaying.

[mgshamster]

To be fair, "what noncombat abilities can I get" is a very valid question. Roleplaying is all well and good, but it's even better when you have tools to use with roleplaying.

Not as fair, but i do agree to a point.

Here, we're still thinking of the character as a collection of abilities that may or may not apply to a specific situation - whereas thinking of the character as a whole person opens up possibilities even more than just a collection of abilities.

To answer the question directly, however, for the eldritch knight we have skills, the background feature, potential spells, and some more spells if you pick up magic initiate or ritual caster, any tools you may acquire and/or know how to use, plus your imagination for coming up with creative ideas, your hands for working with tools, and your ability to communicate with others to cause/resolve issues.

[Tanarii]

Is your job (aka your class for this example) the only thing you can do in life?

For most people who have full time jobs, the answer to this is yes, that's the only thing they can do. Besides socialize or entertainment. The latter of which includes reading (on or offline), watching TV/videos, playing games (including video or RPGs), and arguing in online forums, almost none of which typically requires creative skill or real-world applicability.

[mgshamster]

For most people who have full time jobs, the answer to this is yes, that's the only thing they can do. Besides socialize or entertainment. The latter of which includes reading (on or offline), watching TV/videos, playing games (including video or RPGs), and arguing in online forums, almost none of which typically requires creative skill or real-world applicability.

About a century ago, as a nation we agreed to split up the average person's week into three segments - 40 hours of work, 40 hours of rest, 40 hours of free time, plus two days off.

If someone is spending their 40 hours of work to do something and then believes that they have no time to do anything else, then they just don't have their priorities set up to do something in their 40 hours of free time.

I work 40-50 hours a week, and subtracting commute time, I still have some time off to do things I enjoy - discussing game theory and debating online is just one of those things (and you might be surprised what kind of real world skills can be gleaned from here, such as critical reading, understanding an opponent's view points and position, recognizing argumentative fallacies, and more). Beyond that, ive spent my free time improving my ability to cook, I raise kids and have good interactions with children, I'm very capable of teaching both in and out of the classroom, I can set up a campsite, do carpentry, paint on miniature scale and large scale, fix vehicles, do plumbing, separate good information from bad and determine truth from fiction in my areas outside of expertise, determine when someone is lying to me, communicate with others effectively, give public speeches and orate in front of a crowd, set up conferences and presenters for an organized event, and more. My job - however - is as a chemist, and none of the above is something I do with my job.

Most people who think that all they can do is their job in life have simply never tried to apply themselves outside of their job. I bet that if they did try to apply themselves, they might be pleasantly surprised.

[Tanarii]

Most people who think that all they can do is their job in life have simply never tried to apply themselves outside of their job. I bet that if they did try to apply themselves, they might be pleasantly surprised.
We just said the exact same thing. :p

Edit: the work 40 hour work week is an illusion among most people with careers I know. when someone doing 55 hrs + commute + family tells me they don't have time for stuff, I don't shake my head at them. I don't have a family, that's how I can afford to do things like rock climbing and Kung fu and Drawing on top of 70 hr/week of work/commute. And still find time to blow off steam playing D&D. They probably could find the time to 'apply' themselves. But I certainly don't look down on how they choose to use their free time.

[mgshamster]

We just said the exactly same thing. :p

Fair. :)


Edit: also, the work 40 hour work week is an illusion among most people with careers I know. when someone doing 55 hrs + commute + family tells me they don't have time for stuff, I don't shake my head at them. I don't have a family, that's how I can afford to do things like rock climbing and Kung fu and Drawing on top of 70 hr/week of work/commute. And still find time to blow off steam playing D&D.

Also fair. It's sad that we expect people to work 50+ hours per week now, without enhanced accommodation. It's just expected.

Even with all that, I do encounter people who do not have kids, do not have a significant other, and only work around 30-35 hours per week complain that they don't have enough time to do anything. I just shake my head.

[Tanarii]

Even with all that, I do encounter people who do not have kids, do not have a significant other, and only work around 30-35 hours per week complain that they don't have enough time to do anything. I just shake my head.
For sure. My original post was a back-handed slam at many 'students'. They have time, and still often don't find time to do much with it. I know I didn't as a student, so it's not like I don't understand, but still ...

Are we old yet? *shakes fist* get off my lawn damn kids!

[Darth Ultron]

Hey guys. So I'm thinking about playing a fighter for a campaign I'm going to play in, and I'd like to know how I can contribute to the party out of combat. The game isn't really going to be "kick in the door" style, and I'd like to avoid being the guy who just kind of reads a book in the corner while out of combat. Thanks, and as always, go nuts.

Well, D&D is a combat adventure game. Technically everyone's abilities are made for that. So unless your in combat a lot of character abilities will be useless.

So first off, if you really are set on playing some ''type'' of game....you might not want to play D&D. Find a game of the right type and play that.

Second, it's not a bad even if you use D&D, to use another game for non-combat stuff. So just have everyone make two character sheets.

But all that being said, you don't need character abilities to do things in the game. Just because your character sheet does not have the abilities of ''can speak to npcs'' or ''can make decisions'' you can still do them.

[NewDM]

Basically what everyone else has said, focus on the character and how he would react. Bounded accuracy means most people won't be vastly better than you at out of combat skills. But if you really want a bump look at dipping a couple of levels into bard, or one into rogue. Both will give you a free skill and doubling your proficiency in a pair of skills.

Its sad when the only good advice for a class is "be another class".

As others have said, as an EK you can grab utility cantrips and spells, pick a background that has social and exploration skills. You will be about 1/2 to 2/3 of what other characters have, simply because you don't have access to the resources they have.

If you aren't an EK, well you can uh... stand watch... bench press things to look impressive, intimidate people into doing what you want... and that's about it.

Other classes will have spells like friends, charm person, dominate person, enhance ability, spider climb, etc...etc...
They'll have things like Expertise, etc...

Luckily with bounded accuracy even someone with a 10 in an ability score can roll pretty high on occasion and outdo the professionals.

[Jakinbandw]

Never underestimate the help action. Someone else the Face? Chime in and enter the discussion, then tell the GM you are using the help action to give the Face advantage. In fact, it can get pretty fun trying to come up with ways of giving someone advantage. For example, how do you Help someone with lock picking, or stealth or anything?

You'll be helping the party out, roleplaying, and interacting, all without having to worry about lacking skills.

In fact, the charmed condition only gives advantage on charisma checks. By using the help action, you can do better than that all day long, without any spell slots!

Start Helping the party today!

[Spacehamster]

The scout fighter sub-class that were on unearthed arcana would help you to contribute more aswell as it gets 3 extra ranger style skills as one of its perks,
so with that you get 2 skills background, potential skills from race, 2 fighter skills + 3 bonus skills so at maximum 9 skills if you start as a half elf. :)

[Slipperychicken]

Its sad when the only good advice for a class is "be another class".

As others have said, as an EK you can grab utility cantrips and spells, pick a background that has social and exploration skills. You will be about 1/2 to 2/3 of what other characters have, simply because you don't have access to the resources they have.


I can tell you from experience that the right skills and equipment alone are more than enough to let you pull your weight outside combat. You don't need magic to be useful.

Just having thieves' tools proficiency, stealth, and a non-garbage dex means you can do most of what you'd expect a rogue to do. If you want to pickpocket, you don't need an 18 in dex to do that either. Those capabilities can be amazing if you don't have a rogue in your party. And even if you do, you can then help him out and open up some more options.

And there are the not-so-obvious benefits of a high strength score, if you have one. Being able to effortlessly leap a 15-20ft chasm can be helpful in the right environments. There is also the ability to move obstacles, quickly pry doors and chests open, hold doors shut, and accurately throw grappling hooks (throwing uses strength now). If you have good athletics, that can let you scale walls, cross dangerous bodies of water, and even pull people out of danger.

Additionally, when your paycheck consists of whatever you can carry out of a dungeon, it helps to have a high carry capacity. My group doesn't even use encumbrance, but our DM had to concede that my PC could hold much more than a normal person. It's not a direct benefit, but it quickly adds up when you're coming to town with more mid to high-value treasures.

[NewDM]

I can tell you from experience that the right skills and equipment alone are more than enough to let you pull your weight outside combat. You don't need magic to be useful.

Just having thieves' tools proficiency, stealth, and a non-garbage dex means you can do most of what you'd expect a rogue to do. If you want to pickpocket, you don't need an 18 in dex to do that either. Those capabilities can be amazing if you don't have a rogue in your party. And even if you do, you can then help him out and open up some more options.

And there are the not-so-obvious benefits of a high strength score, if you have one. Being able to effortlessly leap a 15-20ft chasm can be helpful in the right environments. There is also the ability to move obstacles, quickly pry doors and chests open, hold doors shut, and accurately throw grappling hooks (throwing uses strength now). If you have good athletics, that can let you scale walls, cross dangerous bodies of water, and even pull people out of danger.

Additionally, when your paycheck consists of whatever you can carry out of a dungeon, it helps to have a high carry capacity. My group doesn't even use encumbrance, but our DM had to concede that my PC could hold much more than a normal person. It's not a direct benefit, but it quickly adds up when you're coming to town with more mid to high-value treasures.

Sure, but that's what any class can do, and isn't tied to being a fighter. Its great advice for playing a character, but any strength based thing a barbarian can do, and everything else can be done by any character.

What specifically can fighters bring to the table?

[mgshamster]

Sure, but that's what any class can do, and isn't tied to being a fighter. Its great advice for playing a character, but any strength based thing a barbarian can do, and everything else can be done by any character.

What specifically can fighters bring to the table?

That's irrelevant. We're not discussing class design, we're discussing playing an actual character that has chosen to be a fighter for their class.

Hence, we are discussing what the character can bring to the table, not what the class can do.

[NewDM]

That's irrelevant. We're not discussing class design, we're discussing playing an actual character that has chosen to be a fighter for their class.

Hence, we are discussing what the character can bring to the table, not what the class can do.

Actually, the question was clearly:


Hey guys. So I'm thinking about playing a fighter for a campaign I'm going to play in, and I'd like to know how I can contribute to the party out of combat. The game isn't really going to be "kick in the door" style, and I'd like to avoid being the guy who just kind of reads a book in the corner while out of combat. Thanks, and as always, go nuts.

They specifically want to know what a fighter can do out of combat. Now we can go over all the things that every character in the game can do, or we can focus on the actual question of what a fighter can do out of combat.

[CantigThimble]

Actually, the question was clearly:



They specifically want to know what a fighter can do out of combat. Now we can go over all the things that every character in the game can do, or we can focus on the actual question of what a fighter can do out of combat.

He's asking how he can avoid being the guy who 'just kind of reads a book in the corner while out of combat'. If he assumes that he should look at his character sheet to find all of his options then that's problem number 1 that needs to be addressed.

[mgshamster]

Actually, the question was clearly:



They specifically want to know what a fighter can do out of combat. Now we can go over all the things that every character in the game can do, or we can focus on the actual question of what a fighter can do out of combat.

Yeah. He's playing a fighter. When you play a fighter, you're not just playing the class, you're playing an entire character. We're discussing someone about to bring a character to an actual game; we're not discussing theorycraft.

[georgie_leech]

Actually, the question was clearly:



They specifically want to know what a fighter can do out of combat. Now we can go over all the things that every character in the game can do, or we can focus on the actual question of what a fighter can do out of combat.

See, I read the OP and notice he's asking what he can do, not what the Fighter class specifically can do. In other words, pointing him in the direction of character resources outside of his class is very much an answer to the question.

[JellyPooga]

I've got to agree that, in 5ed, a character is no longer only a function of his Class. Yes, a Fighter might be limited to certain archetypes, but the options inherent in your choice of Background open up so many doors.

An Outlander Fighter is very different to a Sage Fighter and not only because of the difference in Skill/Tool/Language Proficiencies. There's a whole gamut of personality and character differences that are backed up by rules mechanics.

The OP asks what a Fighter can do out of combat. I say, it depends on who he is. If he's an Outlander, he's the guy that can track and hunt effectively, knows the right berries to eat and those that might have more recreational effects. If he's a Sage, then he can contribute to intellectual discussions and speak in foreign tongues.

If the question is "what can a Fighter do, regardless of his Background, then the implication that we're talking about an Eldritch Knight says it all, really. Magic is all but infinitely flexible, even with a limited number of Spells Known. There's too many out of combat uses for magic, even as limited as an EK has, to list usefully or easily.

[Slipperychicken]

Sure, but that's what any class can do, and isn't tied to being a fighter. Its great advice for playing a character, but any strength based thing a barbarian can do, and everything else can be done by any character.

What specifically can fighters bring to the table?

That is mostly right. The fighter class itself only gives a handful of utility options through its archetypes (In an earlier post I mentioned some things that an EK can do with his spells and the bonded weapon feature). But a fighter can still be useful outside of combat by the options enabled by his ability scores, proficiencies, and skilled play.

While most of those ideas are replicable with other classes, I do not see them done very often. I don't think I've ever seen someone take the urchin background specifically to get thieves' tools and then use them as proactively as a rogue would. Most of the time I see caster-players stock up on knowledge and social skills out of a sense that otherwise they'd be wasting their primary attribute, while people in other classes try to pick up skills or backgrounds they think appropriate to members of that class, and of course everyone tries to get insight and/or perception in addition to that. In the end it looks like people picked their backgrounds to fit their class, instead of using them to diversify or gain useful options.


Additionally, I think that while engaged with a game, players can only keep a handful of abilities and skills in mind at a time; I can't tell you how many times that players in my groups have forgotten abilities that would have saved them a lot of trouble. That can make utility-heavy caster classes deceiving in a sense; someone with a sharp mind and a clear grasp of his character's capabilities could solve a lot of problems even without resorting to the use of long rest powers, but in practice this does not happen as often because of limits on the cognitive resources that players dedicate to the task. That magnifies the effect of a player's skill relative to his character's abilities, meaning a player who is bright and keen on using his character effectively can achieve better results than a less-motivated player with a utility-oriented class.

[mgshamster]

I don't think I've ever seen someone take the urchin background specifically to get thieves' tools and then use them as proactively as a rogue would.

Funnily enough, I've actually done that.

I was joining mid-game, and they specifically requested a rogue. But I didn't want to play a rogue, so I asked them what parts of a rogue they wanted. They needed someone to open locks and be sneaky. So I made up a sorcerer (I wanted to experience the sorc mechanics) with the urchin background to pick up proficiency in lock picks. :)

[Addaran]

I don't think I've ever seen someone take the urchin background specifically to get thieves' tools and then use them as proactively as a rogue would.

Funnily enough, I've actually done that.

I was joining mid-game, and they specifically requested a rogue. But I didn't want to play a rogue, so I asked them what parts of a rogue they wanted. They needed someone to open locks and be sneaky. So I made up a sorcerer (I wanted to experience the sorc mechanics) with the urchin background to pick up proficiency in lock picks. :)

Same here. Though the team already had two rogues. My character died and we were all character part of a thieve's guild (so everyone had stealth and similar motivations) So i choosed the criminal (smuggler) background for my fighter gnome BM. Due to my very high dex (20) i was better at lock-picking then the AT (expertise in arcana and stealth i think). I was always fighting to lock-pick stuff before him. :smallbiggrin:

Back to the OP, Minor Illusion is awesome as well. You can make cover to hide, with anyone else in the party that also have Minor Illusion, you can do sound and image! Use Minor Illusion to make a whisper in someone's ear works like a pseudo-message (though someone close could ear it too.

Just with backgrounds and/or one feat, you can easily cover lots of roles, that aren't necessarily combat ones:
Face, Knowledge, wilderness guide/food, scout, lockpick/traps, healing, utility spells (rituals)

[JakOfAllTirades]

For most people who have full time jobs, the answer to this is yes, that's the only thing they can do. Besides socialize or entertainment. The latter of which includes reading (on or offline), watching TV/videos, playing games (including video or RPGs), and arguing in online forums, almost none of which typically requires creative skill or real-world applicability.

This assumes "most people" spend their entire adult life doing exactly one job. How many people do that these days? I can do (and have done) more than a few different jobs. (I'm not even a legal 5E character build because I've got too many background skills!)

[NewDM]

This assumes "most people" spend their entire adult life doing exactly one job. How many people do that these days? I can do (and have done) more than a few different jobs. (I'm not even a legal 5E character build because I've got too many background skills!)

I bounce from job to job also. Many people nowadays also have 2-3 part time jobs which take up to 60 hours a week not including transportation and preparation time. In fact I think I read somewhere that there are more part time people in the US than full time now.

[mgshamster]

I bounce from job to job also. Many people nowadays also have 2-3 part time jobs which take up to 60 hours a week not including transportation and preparation time. In fact I think I read somewhere that there are more part time people in the US than full time now.

It's higher than its been in some time, but it definitely doesn't surpass the number of full time workers. 2015 statistics show part time workers at around 27 million, whereas full time workers are around 120 million. Stats (http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat08.htm)

[georgie_leech]

It's higher than its been in some time, but it definitely doesn't surpass the number of full time workers. 2015 statistics show part time workers at around 27 million, whereas full time workers are around 120 million. Stats (http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat08.htm)

Do you know what the survey considers contract work? 150 million people with neither part- nor full-time work seems... off

[NewDM]

Do you know what the survey considers contract work? 150 million people with neither part- nor full-time work seems... off

Nope, those are the real unemployment numbers. Though it does include people in retirement age and those under working age (16).

The unemployment numbers you hear in the news only include those people that file for unemployment to collect a check.

Edit: If you do some cross checking with the census you can get a more accurate number by subtracting how many people are over 65 and under 16.

[georgie_leech]

Nope, those are the real unemployment numbers. Though it does include people in retirement age and those under working age (16).

The unemployment numbers you hear in the news only include those people that file for unemployment to collect a check.

Edit: If you do some cross checking with the census you can get a more accurate number by subtracting how many people are over 65 and under 16.

:smallsigh: The over 65 category. I knew I was forgetting something.

[Slipperychicken]

Do you know what the survey considers contract work? 150 million people with neither part- nor full-time work seems... off

More than 60.5 million (19% the of US) are less than 15 years old and would not be considered by that survey, I don't know how many are exactly 15.

9 million are 16-17 (probably still in high school)

31 million people are in two and four year colleges (googled it)

44.7 million were over age 65 (http://www.aoa.acl.gov/aging_statistics/index.aspx) (retirement age) in 2013, though that number has been growing, and some of them are still working


You add those figures together and it's 144.2 million, which is an underestimation, but those groups should account for almost all of it. I think contract work is sorted into full-time and part-time like other arrangements, so it should be counted.

[NewDM]

More than 60.5 million (19% the of US) are less than 15 years old and would not be considered by that survey, I don't know how many are exactly 15.

9 million are 16-17 (probably still in high school)

31 million people are in college (googled it)

44.7 million were over age 65 (http://www.aoa.acl.gov/aging_statistics/index.aspx) (retirement age) in 2013, though that number has been growing, and some of them are still working


You add those figures together and it's 144.2 million, which is an underestimation, but those groups should account for almost all of it. I think contract work is sorted into full-time and part-time like other arrangements, so it should be counted.

Many people aged 16+ work at least part time while in school, as well as college people working. So those numbers would have to be refined.

[Slipperychicken]

Many people aged 16+ work at least part time while in school, as well as college people working. So those numbers would have to be refined.

Fair enough. For the sake of not driving this thread even further off the rails, I think we can safely conclude that the gap isn't as big as georgie_leech feared.

[georgie_leech]

Fair enough. For the sake of not driving this thread even further off the rails, I think we can safely conclude that the gap isn't as big as georgie_leech feared.

Indeed. Like I said in an earlier post, I was forgetting the over 65 category. Or rather, it wasn't quite registering that the largely retired portion of the populace would naturally not be working, and that 50 million ish not working people was getting mentally spread over the whole populace.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I should have known that "most people have more than one job" comment would lead to a major de-rail!

My bad.

In the context of normal society, most of the classes probably wouldn't be considered "real jobs" at all. Adventurers don't do honest work -- they go out looking for monsters to kill, and take their stuff! This is why I like the way 5E handles character Backgrounds; it grounds characters - including Eldritch Knights - in the "quiet normal life" they had before becoming adventurers, back when they were doing "real work" like everyone else.

Unless they were Charlatans, Criminals, or Urchins, I guess! Not everyone gets a quiet normal life.

[Tanarii]

I should have known that "most people have more than one job" comment would lead to a major de-rail!Ditto on my comment lol. But I didn't assume people spent time doing one job. I DO assume most people spent time doing one generally related career. Which provides them with a vast set of career-related skills. Something like having a class & a background all rolled into one. ;)

Or possibly class, with background being what you focused on as a child. For example I'm a systems engineer. That gives me a huge number of computer related skills, some strong (powershell & AD in my case) and some weaker (network configuration). Maybe my background could be considered 'rock climber' since I started doing that when I was 10. It gives me skills in climbing and knots. Or possibly TRPG-specialist, since I also started that when I was 10. It gives me Lore: D&D games & Lore: Palladium games skills.

The more I think about it, the more I think mgshamster had a damn good point.

[Vogonjeltz]

To be fair, "what noncombat abilities can I get" is a very valid question. Roleplaying is all well and good, but it's even better when you have tools to use with roleplaying.

Except that wasn't the question, the OP phrased it as if they didn't understand that a character can attempt to do anything.

Focusing purely on the written abilities is extremely self-limiting.

If we're just reviewing skill proficiency access, however, the Fighter has access to different skill sets than other characters by virtue of class; Just looking at the 4 classic classes: Clerics don't get Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidation, Perception, or Survival. Rogues don't get Animal Handling, History, or Survival; Wizards don't get Animal Handling, Acrobatics, Athletics, Intimidation, Perception, or Survival.

From the classes at large:

Barbarians lack Acrobatics, History, Insight
Bards can do any skill set as their schtick
Druids lack Acrobatics, Athletics, History, or Intimidation
Monks lack Animal Handling, Intimidation, Perception, or Survival
Paladins lack Acrobatics, Animal Handling, History, Perception, or Survival
Rangers lack Acrobatics, History, or Intimidation
Sorcerers lack Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Perception, or Survival
Warlocks lack Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, Insight, Perception, or Survival

So, depending on group makeup, you might find that the Fighter is the only one who can pick up History or Insight by virtue of class.


For most people who have full time jobs, the answer to this is yes, that's the only thing they can do. Besides socialize or entertainment. The latter of which includes reading (on or offline), watching TV/videos, playing games (including video or RPGs), and arguing in online forums, almost none of which typically requires creative skill or real-world applicability

Uhm, that's not the same question. What am I capable of? is distinct from What do I have the time or inclination to do?.


As others have said, as an EK you can grab utility cantrips and spells, pick a background that has social and exploration skills. You will be about 1/2 to 2/3 of what other characters have, simply because you don't have access to the resources they have.

Every class gets ~2 skill proficiencies, not that those are required to attempt any given task, and Fighters as demonstrated have access to several proficiencies that aren't native to a large number of other classes.

Spells in general are just an alternative means to the same ends.

[djreynolds]

Background should really help out.

Fighters are trained in all armor and weapons? Well what kind of society can afford to train someone in that?

Where is your fighter from? What is his race? Can trace his lineage back? Was he a farmer? Part of the city guard? Muscle for a thieves guild? Guard of the church or wizard academy? Some fighters live with rangers or barbarians and select the outlander background.

Perception and insight, are two tools every guard "should" have. But if they did our rogues would never get into commit crimes.

Vogonjeltz list shows how well versed a fighter can be. A good background can help. If you select sailor, hey great, got two big skills covered for the party.

Is a fighter going to be the best at history, probably not, but a good score can "help" others.

Is he the best at athletics, maybe, at shoving but climbing in plate sucks.

A fighter should at some point select resilient wisdom, and so have a decent wisdom score. Insight, survival, animal handling, perception and medicine are all good skills that can be obtained through class or background. He may not be the best but can aid other classes.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Except that wasn't the question, the OP phrased it as if they didn't understand that a character can attempt to do anything.
Sorry that my assumption was that a question about a specific class wanted class-specific suggestions instead of general advice on how to roleplay.

[KorvinStarmast]

What can an Eldritch Knight (or any fighter) do out of Combat?. Eat oysters to make sure he's able to take care of all of the ladies who swoon over his manliness.

Fighters: chicks dig 'em, because downtime activity is all about gettin' down.

[JumboWheat01]

Eat oysters to make sure he's able to take care of all of the ladies who swoon over his manliness.

Fighters: chicks dig 'em, because downtime activity is all about gettin' down.

I dunno, would ladies prefer the fighter, covered in heavy steal with his practiced movements, or the barbarian, deflecting thing with his pecs and having a bit of a wild side?

[KorvinStarmast]

I dunno, would ladies prefer the fighter, covered in heavy steal with his practiced movements, or the barbarian, deflecting thing with his pecs and having a bit of a wild side? During down time, the Fighter gets that armor repaired. But you do raise a valid point about some ladies preferring that primordial alpha male.

[Temperjoke]

During down time, the Fighter gets that armor repaired. But you do raise a valid point about some ladies preferring that primordial alpha male.

If nothing else, the lack of armor shortens the time between arriving in town to bedding everything in town.

[JumboWheat01]

If nothing else, the lack of armor shortens the time between arriving in town to bedding everything in town.

And doesn't take forever to put on when the significant other storms in and catches you in the act. Just grab your trusty greataxe next to the bed and you're good to go.

[Vogonjeltz]

I dunno, would ladies prefer the fighter, covered in heavy steal with his practiced movements, or the barbarian, deflecting thing with his pecs and having a bit of a wild side?

Most people tend to glamorize that which they do not have.

So, if we're talking the local Barbarian princess, obviously she'd prefer Sir Gawain to Grug.

[Logosloki]

It depends on what sort of worldbuilding the DM has done and the scope that the DM allows. A few ideas.

Weapon Bonding

Bond yourself to one weapon for you and another weapon that is either favoured by a party member or is their weapon so that you can bring in weapons if things go south in disarmed situations.

Bond yourself to an improvised weapon as well as your main weapon. This improvised weapon though isn't so much for braining enemies but some sort of entertainment, such as summoning a Rod (A rod by DMG definition is a quarterstaff that can't be used for hitting so you may be safe anyway) at the start of a magic show (remember, you are an EK, you get some cantrips and depending on access to feats you could grab more spells via magic initiate or pick up ritual caster).

Bond yourself to a thrown weapon, you can now throw this, bonus action to return it, action surge to throw it again. Can make for some entertaining ideas.

Unlike the Pact of the Blade you can bond to ranged weapons, this allows you in an ranged weapons contest to start out with a flourish. Good for catching some young noble's attention by showing you aren't like the rest of the brutes in the contest.

Spells

You have spells, you can burn these for situations where they may be needed. You don't have the scope of a wizard but you do have some leeway for a situational spell. 8th, 14th and 20th allow you to pick anywhere. You also have cantrips. If you aren't using any of the supplements that have been released you may want to pick up one damaging cantrip for when metal wont cut it and a utility cantrip for out of combat fun.


Action Surge

I would mention action surge in general but action surge can really only be used once per short rest until you hit 17th level. If you are sure there will be no combat where you might need it you could expend action surge for a variety of reasons.

Other Fighters

Battlemaster has their manoeuvres, some of which could be used in either an underhanded or encouraging way. Using Rally to revitalise your pick in a prize fight and disguising it as general cheering on your choice is an interesting option. Battlemaster also gets one artisan proficiency of their choice so you have some downtime interactions depending on your tool of choice. Know your enemy is a fantastic tool to take advantage of when sizing something up. Size up the heavies to find your odds, check that odd travelling merchant to find out if this is an ambush that is waiting to happen, find out how powerful someone is in adventuring power (total level), or just how much of a fighter the noble's sons coach really is (fighter level). A permissive DM may allow you to expand on the theme of this by maybe allowing you more granularity such as being able to look at a persons style of fighting and then see ways you could improve upon it, or help an aspiring fighter with flaws in their practice.

Champion has Remarkable athlete. Which can be good for making some coin, or to support your party rogue in their midnight capers. An interesting interaction with remarkable athlete is that the champion applies their proficiency to initiative. This is a roleplay tidbit you can expand on as you can roleplay this bonus as a danger sense, or as something that the champion naturally has, that she views the world as if everyone moves more methodical, their motions more careful.

General Roleplay

You aren't a meatsack with a license to blend (unless this is what you are playing, in which case more power to you). You are a fighter. You might have a particular style of fighting which you can teach to the willing, or use as an ice breaker or boasting contest material. As an artist of the battlefield you might be able to find employ teaching small classes or nobles the art of war. Leverage your background for downtime funtime.