Does a Druid Qualify for the Snatch Feat if they can turn into a Huge Animal?

[Zephonim]

ssssssssssssssssssssssssss

[Necroticplague]

Yes. As long as you qualify when you get the feat, you can take it, regardless of how you qualify.

For a source on it, look at the SRD for feats.

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.

A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.
Doesn't say you have to have it unbuffed, in your natural form, or anything else. just says you have to have it. When you don't qualify (like when you're no longer wild shaped into a big enough form), you can't use the feat (as per that last line), but you still have it (since you selected it when it was a valid choice).

[Zephonim]

Yes. As long as you qualify when you get the feat, you can take it, regardless of how you qualify.

For a source on it, look at the SRD for feats.

Doesn't say you have to have it unbuffed, in your natural form, or anything else. just says you have to have it. When you don't qualify (like when you're no longer wild shaped into a big enough form), you can't use the feat (as per that last line), but you still have it (since you selected it when it was a valid choice).

I think my GM houseruled it because he said You can't have a feat since I meet the prerequisite from magic...

[Deophaun]

This is "ask your DM" territory, because the "when" part of Necroticplague's answer is an issue. My groups generally operate under the principle that you can take it, no questions asked, if you can keep the ability for an entire adventuring day (8-hours).

[ace rooster]

Being able to delay leveling is really helpful for this, but the rules are somewhat fluffy on how long leveling takes. If you play that leveling happens as a ping, then you can pick up any feats you qualify for in the instant that you ping. If you play that leveling requires a few days training, then the DM would be well within RAW to say that you need to qualify for the entirety of the time to take it.

Incidental, what bird did you have in mind? I don't know of any that qualify but sometimes play druid, and that would be a good one to know.

[Zephonim]

Being able to delay leveling is really helpful for this, but the rules are somewhat fluffy on how long leveling takes. If you play that leveling happens as a ping, then you can pick up any feats you qualify for in the instant that you ping. If you play that leveling requires a few days training, then the DM would be well within RAW to say that you need to qualify for the entirety of the time to take it.

Incidental, what bird did you have in mind? I don't know of any that qualify but sometimes play druid, and that would be a good one to know.

A Roc. All i need is Level 15(Master of Many Forms) and a Skin of Kaletor or Wildshape Amulet and I turn into a Roc Johnson.

It's in fact just an Animal.



But it looks like I won't be able to grab the Snatch Feat at all since my GM says wild shape counts as magic and I can't use it to meet prerequisites

OH WAIT ROC HAS SNATCH AS A FEAT **** YES! Feats count as ex abilities for Master of Many forms meaning I can Snatch mother****ers(Level 7 get all ex abilities) YEEEEEEES


Me am failed reading comprehension school

[ace rooster]

A Roc. All i need is Level 15(Master of Many Forms) and a Skin of Kaletor or Wildshape Amulet and I turn into a Roc Johnson.

It's in fact just an Animal.



But it looks like I won't be able to grab the Snatch Feat at all since my GM says wild shape counts as magic and I can't use it to meet prerequisites

OH WAIT ROC HAS SNATCH AS A FEAT **** YES! Feats count as ex abilities for Master of Many forms meaning I can Snatch mother****ers(Level 7 get all ex abilities) YEEEEEEES

Ah, there was me hoping you had found a huge one rather than gargantuan. :smallfrown:

[Zephonim]

Ah, there was me hoping you had found a huge one rather than gargantuan. :smallfrown:

Well the idea was using a huge sized flyer form like Dragonhawk.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?page=5&x=dnd/ex/20050706a

[ShaneMRoth]

If I'm running the campaign, the Druid wouldn't qualify for the Feat.

My reasoning would be that if your PC isn't inherently Huge (that is, Huge when no magic is in effect) then that PC doesn't qualify for that Feat.

i would, however, allow a magic item that applied the Feat to the PC, so long as the PC is Huge at the time.

[Deophaun]

My reasoning would be that if your PC isn't inherently Huge (that is, Huge when no magic is in effect) then that PC doesn't qualify for that Feat.
Nit-pick: That's not your reasoning. That's your rule. Your reasoning may be that you find magic-based access unbalanced, or such abilities take away from the fun, or something along those lines, but to be a reason they need to explain the existence of the rule, not simply state it.

[Necroticplague]

OH WAIT ROC HAS SNATCH AS A FEAT **** YES! Feats count as ex abilities for Master of Many forms meaning I can Snatch mother****ers(Level 7 get all ex abilities) YEEEEEEES


Me am failed reading comprehension school

Ummmm.....sorry to burst your bubble, but, Extraordinary Wild Shape doesn't give you feats. Extraordinary Wild Shape gives you EX Special Qualities (in addition to the EX Special Attacks you were already getting). Feats are not Special Qualities.

[Zephonim]

Ummmm.....sorry to burst your bubble, but, Extraordinary Wild Shape doesn't give you feats. Extraordinary Wild Shape gives you EX Special Qualities (in addition to the EX Special Attacks you were already getting). Feats are not Special Qualities.



https://imgur.com/C6agyrO

Actually....

From the 3.5 FAQ


When my human uses polymorph* to take the form of
another creature, he loses any extraordinary special attacks
and qualities. Does this include his bonus feat and bonus
skill points? If so, how do I figure out which feat and skill
points are derived from his racial traits?

A human’s bonus feat and bonus skill points—like most
other racial traits—are considered extraordinary qualities, and
thus are lost when the character would lose such abilities

[Deophaun]

https://imgur.com/C6agyrO

Actually....

From the 3.5 FAQ


When my human uses polymorph* to take the form of
another creature, he loses any extraordinary special attacks
and qualities. Does this include his bonus feat and bonus
skill points? If so, how do I figure out which feat and skill
points are derived from his racial traits?

A human’s bonus feat and bonus skill points—like most
other racial traits—are considered extraordinary qualities, and
thus are lost when the character would lose such abilities
Highlighted the part you skipped over. Snatch is not a bonus feat for a roc.

[erok0809]

https://imgur.com/C6agyrO

Actually....

From the 3.5 FAQ


When my human uses polymorph* to take the form of
another creature, he loses any extraordinary special attacks
and qualities. Does this include his bonus feat and bonus
skill points? If so, how do I figure out which feat and skill
points are derived from his racial traits?

A human’s bonus feat and bonus skill points—like most
other racial traits—are considered extraordinary qualities, and
thus are lost when the character would lose such abilities

First off, the FAQ isn't Rules text, and should not be treated as such, as a general rule. That isn't the relevant issue here, but I figured I should mention it.

The actual issue with this argument though is the presence of the word "bonus." None of the Roc's feats are bonus feats; they're all feats acquired at normal amounts of HD when things pick up feats. Those don't qualify as racial traits or special qualities.

[Zephonim]

First off, the FAQ isn't Rules text, and should not be treated as such, as a general rule. That isn't the relevant issue here, but I figured I should mention it.

The actual issue with this argument though is the presence of the word "bonus." None of the Roc's feats are bonus feats; they're all feats acquired at normal amounts of HD when things pick up feats. Those don't qualify as racial traits or special qualities.

Well **** everywhere I've looked everyone said that enhanced wild shape and master of many forms level 7 gets you the feats even the master of many forms bible says it.


Might as well just play a normal ****ing druid then.

[Zephonim]

https://imgur.com/pXrjoLE

These feats are thus supernatural in nature (rather than being
extraordinary abilities, as most feats are).


Also:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471903-Updated-Master-of-Many-Forms-Bible-Official-Wild-Shape-Rules-May-2006-%28HarzerKatze%29

Link to master of many forms bible

[LTwerewolf]

I'd allow it for a master of many forms. It's what they do, and while they themselves aren't huge size, the way they fight can be (and I would only let it work while huge size). How you qualify isn't particularly important so long as you qualify when you intend to use it imo. It's no stronger than some of the forms that get improved grab.

[Deophaun]

https://imgur.com/pXrjoLE

These feats are thus supernatural in nature (rather than being
extraordinary abilities, as most feats are).
...and?


Starting at 7th level, a master of many forms gains the extraordinary special qualities of any form she assumes with wild shape.
"Extraordinary special qualities." Not "extraordinary abilities." See in the "Special Qualities" section in the Roc entry? Where do you see Snatch listed?


http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471903-Updated-Master-of-Many-Forms-Bible-Official-Wild-Shape-Rules-May-2006-%28HarzerKatze%29

Link to master of many forms bible

Let's read your link:

natural armor bonus, movement modes, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on) including the form’s attack routines like 2xclaw or 8xtentacle, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). You do not get racial bonus feats or racial skill boni. until you reach MMF level 7. The Official Game Rules FAQ notes that racial feats and skills are extraordinary qualities, so you get them when you each MMF level 7.
Snatch is not a racial bonus feat. It is therefore not an extraordinary special quality.

[Hiro Quester]

Have a conversation with your DM. Find out his reasons.

If he is restricting the feat for RAWreasons, then you might show him the text quoted earlier. If you are in that wildshape form all day while training to develop the feat, you could have it, but wouldn't be able to use it when you no longer meet the prerequisites.

However, it might well be for balance/power reasons. Druids can easily be game-breakingly powerful. Sometimes a DM needs to say 'no' to a request like that, because you will already be owning many encounters, and adding roc with snatch would snap encounters in half real quick.

For instance, even though the Druid I play is in wildshape most of the time, for balance reasons my DM ruled against taking having the prerequisites for multi-attack feat at 9th level, because the buffed Druid in wildshape was already doing more damage per round than the party fighter.

[Zephonim]

Have a conversation with your DM. Find out his reasons.

If he is restricting the feat for RAWreasons, then you might show him the text quoted earlier. If you are in that wildshape form all day while training to develop the feat, you could have it, but wouldn't be able to use it when you no longer meet the prerequisites.

However, it might well be for balance/power reasons. Druids can easily be game-breakingly powerful. Sometimes a DM needs to say 'no' to a request like that, because you will already be owning many encounters, and adding roc with snatch would snap encounters in half real quick.

For instance, even though the Druid I play is in wildshape most of the time, for balance reasons my DM ruled against taking having the prerequisites for multi-attack feat at 9th level, because the buffed Druid in wildshape was already doing more damage per round than the party fighter.

It's a ranger and Master of Many forms gives jack **** to spellcasting.

[Hiro Quester]

It's a ranger and Master of Many forms gives jack **** to spellcasting.

so then ask him. He either is mistaken, or has good reasons. find out which. If it's neither of those, then maybe he is just unreasonable and you need to find a different game.