Fluff reasons for making a Gish

[Jimp]

So I have a Gish all planned out for an upcoming game but I've hit one problem. The DM is VERY strict about class roles and despises multiclassing. If you're a rogue, you have "obviously" spent all your life stealing and sweet talking and hiding in shadows and you always will. If you're a fighter you have spent all your life hitting things with sticks and you'll never know any different. If you're an arcanist you have spent all your life flicking your fingers around and making things die (he's not big on control or utility casting) and will continue to do so until you go mad in your tower. So when I proposed a Gish character he found an instant problem with it. How could my character POSSIBLY understand spellcasting after hitting things with sticks for so long? Nevermind doing BOTH during combat!
However, he has let me think about it before the game and I can play the character if I can give him good enough reasons. It's an FR game. The DM hasn't decided whether it's 2nd edition or 3.5. If it's 2nd I'll be playing a Elven multiclassed Fighter/Mage. If it's 3rd I'll be playing an OA Samurai/Wizard.
Can anyone help me come up with good reasons? My Gish's background is otherwise a regular 'warrior using his arcane powers to aid him in combat' kind of thing where he combined the traditions of his father, an honourable warrier, and the traditions of his mother, an army spellcaster. I just need some damn good reasons why someone could be both a fighter and a caster.
I know it sounds a bit ridiculous but bear with me :smallconfused:

[Gavin Sage]

You are getting very contrived if you are a visting Samurai/Wizard from Kara-Tur. If your DM is strict on that stuff then every oddity raises the standards. Please don't take offense, but it smells to me you want that katana for cool factor. Drop it back to Fighter and go local then pick up something like Eldritch Knight.

And now ways to be both a fighting and casting sort:
--Sorceror, your fluff is built right in. You simply just manifested your abilties. Its all natural and individual so theres no objection to be raised.
--Be an elf starting with class and coming from a family of swordmages, you already have your weapon proficiency so your fighter levels are simply you honing the skills elven culture teaches its youth.
--If you have PHB II, be a Duskblade. Fluff built right in.
--If you aren't at level one, come from some unmagical background and then get taken in by a Wizard under some circumstances where he noticed your intelligence and took you on as an aprentice. Or otherwise have grown up studying both

[Jimp]

You are getting very contrived if you are a visting Samurai/Wizard from Kara-Tur.
Clarification: He's not restricting classes to regions. You could be a Samurai from Cromyr if you felt like it.

Your suggestions are good, but the idea with the wizard is what I've already proposed. He still doesn't see how someone who hits things could have the capacity to cast spells.

[DSCrankshaw]

I've been considering building a Dwarven Runesmith (armored wizard with at least some fighter) for a while, so here are my thoughts on his origins, and it's basically a matter of society: dwarves have a very martial society. Every young dwarf is trained as a member of the militia, whether he's planning to be a miner, a smith, or a wizard. Thus, dwarven wizards are expected to be able to serve on the front line, hence the reason for the runesmith prestige class: it allows dwarven wizards to cast in full armor.

This exact fluff probably won't work for your character, but it gives a reason why someone would know how to swing an axe and to cast spells.

[NullAshton]

He was the bodyguard for a very important lord. However, the lord only went out of his magically protected manor for only a couple hours of a day, so he had a lot of free time. In his off time, he took classes at the local wizard's college, as he was interested in magic, and magic helped him in his job to detect any sort of threats to his lord.

[Douglas]

How could my character POSSIBLY understand spellcasting after hitting things with sticks for so long? Nevermind doing BOTH during combat!
He learned both at the same time? Mom was a wizardess, dad was a fighter, and he learned the basics of both while growing up.

[jamroar]

So I have a Gish all planned out for an upcoming game but I've hit one problem. The DM is VERY strict about class roles and despises multiclassing. If you're a rogue, you have "obviously" spent all your life stealing and sweet talking and hiding in shadows and you always will. If you're a fighter you have spent all your life hitting things with sticks and you'll never know any different. If you're an arcanist you have spent all your life flicking your fingers around and making things die (he's not big on control or utility casting) and will continue to do so until you go mad in your tower. So when I proposed a Gish character he found an instant problem with it. How could my character POSSIBLY understand spellcasting after hitting things with sticks for so long? Nevermind doing BOTH during combat!
However, he has let me think about it before the game and I can play the character if I can give him good enough reasons. It's an FR game. The DM hasn't decided whether it's 2nd edition or 3.5. If it's 2nd I'll be playing a Elven multiclassed Fighter/Mage. If it's 3rd I'll be playing an OA Samurai/Wizard.
Can anyone help me come up with good reasons? My Gish's background is otherwise a regular 'warrior using his arcane powers to aid him in combat' kind of thing where he combined the traditions of his father, an honourable warrier, and the traditions of his mother, an army spellcaster. I just need some damn good reasons why someone could be both a fighter and a caster.
I know it sounds a bit ridiculous but bear with me :smallconfused:

1. Student of a fighting style that incorporates magic into its advanced teachings, so Wizardry 101 is taught to all novices. (particularly if aiming for a PrC like Bladesinger or Hexblade)

2. Wizard with military background. All recruits start off with basic fighter training, then those who demonstrate magical potential are sent off for magical instruction.

3. Reluctant Wizard (or vice versa). Pressured into pursuing family tradition of wizardry, but true interest is really swordsmanship, which you dedicate all your spare time to. Sort of like Roy Greenhilt.

4. Culture of magic. The use of magic is ubiquitous in your culture, just like basic knowledge of literacy, mathematics, and science is in many modern RL societies, unlike, say, in the Dark Ages. Growing up, your character has been exposed to magic learning since childhood.Suitable for races with favored class: Wizard (i.e. elves).

On the other hand, if you play a sorceror, you don't even need an excuse, since magic is in your blood heritage waiting to be discovered.

[Gavin Sage]

Your suggestions are good, but the idea with the wizard is what I've already proposed. He still doesn't see how someone who hits things could have the capacity to cast spells.

Structure your character so they aren't a terribly good fighter (IE: Nerf Strength) and say that the Wizard helped you discover your true calling. Right up a fairly lengthy background. It would help if you came from a region/society that was low on wizards and so would never have had the option of taking up wizardry. For example a Bedine come out of Anauroch and met the Wizard working as a caravan guard. Or born poor in a city slum, sold into slavery and raised to fight, until bought by a Cali****e wizard that took a fancy to your intelligence and made you a wizard

And if he still doesn't go, bite the bullet and play a Sorceror as the fluff is built right in. Or again, elf wizard with longsword then just picking up fighting levels after. Since he can't object to simply getting better at a weapon you already know how to use, thus trained with. Yes its that's not samurai, but a people on this board will tell you how useless this class is anyways. And the even without being region specific the odder your build the harder it is to justify it, hence sticking to the core classes is a good idea.

And because it Forgotten Realms, open up the campaign setting and point out Elminster's levels. He has Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, and Wizard. Of which if you break out Making of a Mage were all before his Wizard levels. Or other NPCs listed as multiclasses. And maybe get out the Spellsinger prestige class. If your DM doesn't like multis then he's fighting a lot of the Realms.

[ZeroNumerous]

Yes its that's not samurai, but a people on this board will tell you how useless this class is anyways.

Uh, he's talking about OA Samurai. That one is actually good, unlike CW Samurai.

Further, he could just write up a short rewrite of the OA Samurai's fluff. Remove the references to OA and it's regions and instead transfer everything to be based in the little town the character grew up in. As part of the tradition, the character is taught how to use a sword but finds whacking things with a sword isn't that fun. Instead, he tells the local soothsayer(a wizard) about his problem. He/she/it suggests becoming his/her/it's apprentice.

[Steelwraith]

Samurai first, then wizard:

You worked as a bodyguard (or was assigned to protect, being a samurai and all) a wizard. Having spent many days/weeks/months with him, you started picking up bits and pieces of magical lore. The wizard, recognizing your potential, offers to train you during your stay. You spend mornings out in the garden performing your martial exercises, your days guarding the wizard, and the evenings learning from his old casting manuals. Eventually you are able to cast your own spells, to the delight of the wizard.

Wizard first, then samurai:

This one is much harder, as it makes less sense for a bookworm to suddenly decide he wants to wade into battle with his katana. I would go with something like you were training in both at the same time. After all, the bushido code dictates learning other skills as well, so maybe you thought ahead and decided to learn how to cast as you trained to become a samurai... once your spellcasting training was complete, you were free to concentrate on your martial abilities.

[Aquillion]

Say that you grew up as a nobleman, being adopted into a noble family. Therefore, you received a "well-rounded" education, focused on developing both your body and your mind; maybe you learned some rough-and-ready fighting abilities on the streets before you were adopted, and the family tried to encourage you to study the arcane as well in order to "civilize" you. You'd probably want to cut the noble connection in your backstory somewhere... say, you turned your back on your family, disillusioned, when you realized you would never truly be accepted as having noble blood; or you got disowned for some reason and, in any case, never expect or want to see your family again.

[Ramza00]

change some of the flurr. Instead of preparing spells from a spell book you prepare memories from a spell "crystal" (same item stats just you say its a crystal instead of a spellbook. There is an eberron item in the ecs that is identical to the blessed book but half the pages and thus half the cost, that is like this a magical memory crystal.). Ancient swordmasters learn how to mix sword fighting and magic and make them one seemly entity. Creating new techniques would last a lifetime, luckily they discovered ways to transpose memories of how to access the magical energy of the world, and use these techinques and place such memories in these cyrstals (aka spellbooks.) As you grow in power you can access higher level techniques, additionally these ancient memories aren't permanent, you lose your rememberance of the technique after using it, only with spell crystals can these memories last eternal.

These people focus on melee and mixing magic with fighting, they weren't magicans or spellcasters, instead they were fighters who dabbled with melee and magic. Focus on transmutaion, divination, and abjuration spells with some limited evocation (things such as contigency), and necromancy (things that make your enemy weaker since you strike weak zones, thus reducing strength, or you attack their psyche and thus take mental damage).

--------------------------------

Switching from spellbooks which seem very intellectal/nerdy to crystals and memories makes the leap of faith from a spellcaster fighter hybrid seem less pronounce. Effectively you create something that is simialr to a jedi or mystical samurai society.

[Isomenes]

Maybe throw a canned gish at him, to show him that a base class already exists for the idea?

"Try new Duskblade canned gish! Packed with buffs and boom, sure to kick the snot out of BBEGs everywhere! Act now, they won't be around forever!"

[TheOOB]

Yup, if you want to play a gish, and you don't want rakeing up your class count, the duskblade (PHB II) is the way to go. They gain good fighting ability, a ton of combat spells, and the ability to channel touch spells through their weapon, overall a pretty darn good class.

Plus the class is good without needed to multi/PrC

[Solo]

You want a character that can fight and cast spells while in armor?

I think its called a cleric :p


As far as gishes go, if you want to have one without multiclassing, you should probably go either hexblade or duskblade.

Hexblade is a bit weaker than duskblade, although an intelligently played hexblade will do well.

[The_Werebear]

Spellcaster to Melee: You were doing your spell slinging, happy as can be, when you run out of magic in a critical situation. Being useless, your Family/Dog/Friend got killed. You vowed never to let this happen again, and learned how to wield a sword as a contingency, so you will never be unprepared.

Melee to Spellcaster: You were doing your sword slinging, happy as can be, when you come across a mage who traps you in a magic bubble while he kills your Family/Dog/Friend. You vowed never to let this happen again, and took up study of magic, so you would be able to counter such effects and turn them on foes who didn't expect a fighter to be able to.

[TheOOB]

Spellcaster to Melee: You were doing your spell slinging, happy as can be, when you run out of magic in a critical situation. Being useless, your Family/Dog/Friend got killed. You vowed never to let this happen again, and learned how to wield a sword as a contingency, so you will never be unprepared.

Melee to Spellcaster: You were doing your sword slinging, happy as can be, when you come across a mage who traps you in a magic bubble while he kills your Family/Dog/Friend. You vowed never to let this happen again, and took up study of magic, so you would be able to counter such effects and turn them on foes who didn't expect a fighter to be able to.

Or you know, at the wizard school you ended up spending just as much time with a sword as you did with a spellbook. Your piers thought you where weird, until you boped them in the head while they tried to cast.

[thehothead]

Or you know, at the wizard school you ended up spending just as much time with a sword as you did with a spellbook. Your piers thought you where weird, until you boped them in the head while they tried to cast.

AT DUELING CLUB:

Peer: ha! You're going to lose, you don't study as much as you should, cause you spend all that time practicing with that stupid sword. *starts casting spell*
wizard/fighter: ATTACK OF OPPROTUNITY!
Peer: ... I take that back.

[Rad]

Since your DM seems open-minded about classes he'll probably not object to a duskblade, and beleive me, thay are FUN to play, especially at low levels!

If a fancy BG is what he wants instead, try this: your mother is dead after a long illness, even if that was not your thing you chose to learn magic from her while she was sick so that she would know that she had passed something to you. In turn she thought you some spells that you would have found interesting given your martial leaning, such as True Strike that you appreciated SO MUCH as a fighter that you couldn't help to keep exploring the possibilities of magic applied to combat.
To back the simultaneous learning thing (your DM seems the kind that could be touched by the existance of rules for that), there are rules in the 3.0 DMG to make a biclassed 1st level character. They basically give you just some of the abilities of both and when you gain 2nd level you are equivalent to a standard multiclass character.

I'd do the duskblade though. Straighth until at least level 13.

[Seffbasilisk]

You could have started wizard, been in a large fight, exhausted all your spells for the day, picked up a dying fighter's sword, and battled until rescue came. Decided to hire a mercinary to teach you to be effective in combat so that never happened again. When you were sword-swinging, you found that you actually enjoyed it more then just spellslinging, ESPECIALLY when you used your spells in combat....

Tah dah! Gish.

[weenie]

The sorcerer is quiet easy to pull of. He could be born in a family with strong military tradition, and had a good bond with his father(a bit unusual for a sorcerer i guess, but anyway) and therefore he had lots of martial training when he was young, and he kept on practicing even after he learnt of his powers.

The wizard could be a bit harder to do, but i think people already threw in a few good suggestions.

[Pestlepup]

Another option:

You are a samurai, which by itself means you belong in a more respected if not higher social class. The samurai and their western counterparts, the knights, were never simple you-point-I-punch -types. Coming mostly from aristocratic or royal bloodlines, they were expected to train their minds as well as their bodies. Now, anyone who has ever trained and fought with a real sword (myself included), can tell you that stupid people make abysmal fighters. It's a far more cerebral than simply "hitting stuff with sticks". Good reflexes, strength and stamina may help out of a pickle, but you'll only end up getting into trouble again and again until your naturally buff performance just won't cut it. And then you're dead. A smart fighter will outlast every simpleton brute, as a good grasp of tactics and strategy keeps you out of the situations that will eventually get you killed.

Therefore, it is by no means inconceivable, that even among [insert weapon moniker]men you were an exceptionally bright student, and study martial arts as a way to train your mind and body to work as a whole. Swordsmanship can be very meditative, especially if you're highly analytical of your own performance. Magic, in this case, is simply you honing the sword of your mind into an edge to match your blade's. To you, they complement each other in a most natural way, and you probably couldn't after a time even tell them apart as separate or opposing skills. This would probably mean that your character would by default be highly philosophical and curious, and see worth in pursuing a higher state of mental and physical being. After all, magic and martial arts are just ways to challenge yourself as a complete mental and physical whole. You would likely consider both pure wizards and combat brutes to be imbalanced in spirit, as they seek to disassociate half of their being in favor of the other. A person, after all, is a creature of spirit and flesh. The link of those halves is tenous for some, and only by vigorous training is it possible to learn meld them into each other, and thus become complete.

Just an idea, though. Tell me what you think. :smallsmile:

[KIDS]

Your DM is just being an elitist about multiclassing. If he honestly thinks like that, I really think that's restricted in terms of imagination.

Now, on the topic:

a) there is no sensible reason why a person couldn't dabble in both combat and arcane
b) elves' fighting style is based on being a gish; they meld two from the very beginnings
c) you are a wizard who was badly beaten up in a brawl during his training and studied ways to protect himself in melee
d) anything. One doesn't have to think up an epic story to be a gish.
e) if the problem is that one moment you can't cast spells and next you can, or same with weapons, don't look at it's so restricted; the character has trained and his skill reflects that months of training. There is no "blink" moment in roleplaying a gish.

[LeeMon]

This is a character introduction from the Neverwinter Nights Character Builds (http://nwn.bioware.com/underdark/character_eldritcharcher.html) written by Lockindal Linantal. I'm merely changing references from bows and arrows to katanas.


The old man shook his head. "Why do you waste your time with that bit of steel? You exert control over the natural world. There is little that can harm you when you use your magics."

The student sighed. He knew this was coming. He had spent several years in the company of this wizard who had proven to be an excellent tutor. "I do not doubt the power of magic; in fact, I agree that there is little that can stand against a well trained magician."

"Then what drives you to practice daily with your sword? Your aim is far more accurate with your spells. The effects are varied and flexible instead of the tiny slashing of an opponent's armor. An altogether better use of your time is studying how you can further master the forces of magic rather than hefting your katana to and fro."

"You are untrained in the katana, or indeed any weapon, master, are you not? A weapon is not a separate thing; it is an extension of one's body. Is this not the definition of how you view magic?"

"Of course, but it is not the same. You assume too much." In an instant, the student unsheathed his sword and swung at the old mage. Instinctively, the mage deflected the blade. An explosion of color followed, encasing the mage within a sphere of purple light. Unharmed but shaken, the mage tested his cage. "What is this, child?"

"Master, the katana only delivered the spell. You deftly deflected the bit of steel, but not the varied and flexible effect. I think this is only the beginning." The old mage pursed his lips and slowly nodded to himself.

The fledgling Eldritch Samurai smiled shyly.

There's your character intro. :)

[Dark Knight Renee]

So I have a Gish all planned out for an upcoming game but I've hit one problem. The DM is VERY strict about class roles and despises multiclassing. If you're a rogue, you have "obviously" spent all your life stealing and sweet talking and hiding in shadows and you always will. If you're a fighter you have spent all your life hitting things with sticks and you'll never know any different. If you're an arcanist you have spent all your life flicking your fingers around and making things die (he's not big on control or utility casting) and will continue to do so until you go mad in your tower. So when I proposed a Gish character he found an instant problem with it. How could my character POSSIBLY understand spellcasting after hitting things with sticks for so long? Nevermind doing BOTH during combat!

That's an idiotic assumption, especially considering he's playing in FR.


*snip* My Gish's background is otherwise a regular 'warrior using his arcane powers to aid him in combat' kind of thing where he combined the traditions of his father, an honourable warrier, and the traditions of his mother, an army spellcaster. I just need some damn good reasons why someone could be both a fighter and a caster.

It sounds to me as though you have your Good Reason right there. Seriously, that there says that your character was raised from childhood doing both. He did not start out casting spells or hitting things with sticks. There is no excuse for throwing this explaination out. If your DM doesn't like it, he's unlike to like any of the other options more.

[Jorkens]

You're from a poor background and had to spend a few years soldiering while you saved up to put yourself through wizard school? Or you were studying to be a wizard when you got conscripted into the army?

[Fax Celestis]

That's an idiotic assumption, especially considering he's playing in FR.

I know! Has he looked at any of the Godlike NPCs in existence? Elminster's got Fighter levels, for god's sake.

[Brother_Franklin]

You were locked in a tower with a bunch of books and a golem by your evil father who wanted you to be the most powerfull warlord ever. The golem would not let you out until you bested him with the Katana and read perfectly from the [instert name of majik text here]. You swore revenge on your abusive father but someone offed him before you could get out of the tower. So now your dedicated to [insert your philosophy here].

Therefore, it's your evil father's fault that you're a gish. You hate being a gish. Also, it's obvious how you masterd both, you studied 24hrs a day. (He had his mage cast persistent keep son alive on the tower.)

How's that?

[Matthew]

I dunno, I get where this DM is coming from. Even in The Forgotten Realms, it's not like folk just suddenly become Wizards after twenty five years training as a Fighter. If he's using some variant on the Training Rules in the DMG, it's gonna take a long time to move from Fighter to Wizard, if you are starting at Level 1, that is. If you want to play a Gish at Level 1, the Dusk Blade is the most appropriate Base Class.

...and Elf Multi Class Fighter/Mages in (A)D&D 2.x were potentially very overpowered; I wouldn't be surprised if your DM were to frown upon it.

[Qooroo]

Very simple reason that seems to have been somewhat overlooked: You were schooled in a style of fighting that taught you to harness arcane energies to augment your martial talent. You didn't get trained in one and then the other. You were trained in both as a single art.

The multiclassing is just a mechanical representation thereof.

[Dan_Hemmens]

Rent the Lord of the Rings movies.

Point him at all of the scenes of Gandalf stabbing people with a sword.