Let's write Sword and Sorcery

[Eldan]

Okay, so. This came up in another thread, the one about collaboratively writing a teenage romance novel with supernatural elements.

We write a sword and sorcery-ish novel together. IN the end, the idea would be that every person writes a chapter, with only some general guidelines established, like rough character traits and a plot arc.

Now, I think, the key here is to be cliché, but not too cliché. We don't want to literally write Conan again. I especially don't quite want a lone hero, I'd rather have a small ensemble cast of 3-4 people.

So. Things we should agree on:
Do we go full Sword and Sorcery? For those who don't know it, that would mean, for a slightly longer work, we're probably going episodic. In Sword and Sorcery, we have recurring heroes going on short, action-filled adventures for mostly selfish reasons. Or do we want an overarcing plot, going a bit more towards epic fantasy? It doesn't have to be a world-ending plot, but it could be something like "Hero chases villain across the world, has a weird encounter on the way every chapter".

Second, we should write down some characters. If we go for the ensemble cast, we could go for a sort of generic RPG-class trinity, as outline. For Sword and Sorcery, maybe Fighter/Ranger/Rogue, or Paladin/Barbarian/Rogue.

Third, we need a few gimmicks. First, for the characters, who need to be unusual. Second, for the world.


A few things I would like, personally, to avoid, even if they fit the parody:
I'd rather not have generic real-world culture equivalents, along the lines of "this week, not-Conan is in Fantasy Arabia!" Elements of cultures, sure, but not pure rip-offs of cultures we don't even know well.
Second, can we just stay away from at least the worst racism and sexism that occasionally creeps into these works?


Okay, then. Let's start with ideas.

[gooddragon1]

To avoid ripping off real world destinations, you could just go with the cliches regarding races.

Elves that actually live in forests, dwarves that live underground, merfolk in the waters, etc. Makes it really straightforward in terms of storytelling and you get to play off the typical stuff like vast stone fortresses.

Also, are you planning on basing magic off something existing (like D&D), making up something new, or a blend of stuff? Will magic be costly and/or restrictive? Will it be open and easy to take up by anyone like learning to juggle and/or speak a language? Where does it come from (within, the environment, etc)?

Will there be a single party of characters sticking together or will the story bring in different characters depending on location?

Other direct ideas:

Personally, I'd like magic to be available to anyone and emanating from within. However, it takes practice to use and as a side effect of emanating from within you can spend your time exercising or practicing your magic, but only one at a time. Also, anyone can use magic to resist magic and weaken it's effects (how much depends on practice spent in the way of magic training). Co-operative magic works too. No need for words or complex gestures either.

Not sure how to make sure that the sword part doesn't get left out though. Maybe while two mages counter each other the guys with more in the way of sword training can rush while assisting?

EDIT: Also, anything, and I mean anything, with any degree of sentience can use magic. Even the trees. They may not be very good at it or creative, but they can. Even your cat can use magic. Plants can probably just use it to create light that helps them grow a little.

EDIT: And magic is not physically taxing. You just run out of energy and it comes back over time.

[Officer Joy]

I'm not much of a writer, but I love to spew random ideas.

How about the a lady sorceress that is very skilled in aplying one of the most basic spells availible and as such to "help" defeat mages that have more powerfull magic availible.

[Durkoala]

How about a protagonist (or possibly deutagonist) who is a sentient magic sword? This justifies why they're in violent situations (if somebody picks up a sword, they've probably got a reason to use it), and we could rotate wielders as supporting characters for different types of stories.

[Hopeless]

Post apocalyptic earth so you can throw in evidence of the golden age which is completely at odds with the current sword & sorcery era.
Elves, dwarves, goblins are all evolved from humanity but refuse to admit this truth since whatever surviving actual humans are descended from those that survived the cataclysm in various underground shelters who chose to return to the surface after a few centuries whilst those who remained eventually became dwarves, etc.

Sorcerors, wizards and druids exist, whatever clerics and divine cults are all formerly belong to a knowledge cult dedicated to the memory of the heroine who insured the survival of the lost arts meaning toilets, cold & hot running water, working sewer systems even a working steam powered train system limited to the more civilised cities imagine a degenerated city with a mono rail system?!

The idea is that greed and power hungry clerics, magi and rulers deliberately wiped out the knowledge cult and usurped their position creating the current pantheon and elitist system to insure their position and power.

Unfortunately in doing so they caused a second cataclysm in their efforts to insure they alone wielded the power in so doing forgot that by not learning about the past they're doomed to repeat it!

[Gastronomie]

Not sure how to make sure that the sword part doesn't get left out though. Maybe while two mages counter each other the guys with more in the way of sword training can rush while assisting?

Or you could make it like one of the following:
-Swordsmen channel their innate magical power into the swords, instead of activating "spells" (basically, everyone is an Eldritch Knight to some extent)
-There's a lot of monsters who have magical resistance
-The swords themselves are all magical (EVERYONE GETS A MAGICAL ITEM)

[Hopeless]

Wasn't the Familiar of Zero had an artefact that was a rocket launcher but noone knew how it worked?

Imagine a sword designed to store an electrical charge via a battery set within the hilt with a wire to direct the charge when released and insulation so the wielder isn't shocked unless dumped into a lake...

The Last Witchhunter had a sword on fire...

I wondered how stealth helicopters would come across in such a setting?

Fly at night, sounded like thunder with flashes of light skin to lightning to explain how they'd be viewed...

Anyway I was wondering about blood magic being a major bad influence, now that would be readily available, regular magic wouldn't be providing an excuse for why it's this way?

[Yora]

Does it have to be a novel? Something really episodic with no particular order would be much easier. You can't really write chapters without having seen what others have finished before you.

[Hopeless]

Does it have to be a novel? Something really episodic with no particular order would be much easier. You can't really write chapters without having seen what others have finished before you.

Then we need to make sure certain we know what boundaries need to be observed.

For example say you introduce what seems like a mastermind villain in the first act but he's seemingly killed say by being hit by a lucky strike that sends him into a sewer canal.

Three chapters later we learn he survived but was left disease ridden and seemingly disfigured in truth he uses an ally of the cast to get himself healed and learning of his enemies presence attempts to take advantage but ends up revealing something of their true foe BUT he gets away.

This becomes a habit but because he's becoming nothing more than a minor irritation until you're ready to use him to emphasise just how far the main characters have outgrown him.

It helps if each writer is aware what the next one needs kept intact even if it means creating a new character or asking a previous writer to mention that character even if only a side note at that time so they can shift to their perspective?

Another example, London was sunk during the cataclysm and has become the Atlantis of this era occasionally flashes of light indicate some of the city still survives beneath the ocean now called the Tames.

What examples would you suggest for such an endeavour?

[Yora]

Well, various oldschool Sword & Sorcery series. Conan, Fafrd and Gray Mouser, Kane, Jirel of Joiry, Hyperborea. Some Elric. Single stories without real continuity are pretty standard for the genre.

[TheThan]

Love this idea. so here goes

I think we should make this episodic nature; it makes it easier for others to pop in and start writing besides Conan is basically an anthology anyway.

As for magic; I sort of default to costly and restrictive magic but I love the idea of technology=magic.

Lastly I think we should rock with a three person group such as:
A: the warrior, he’s big, he’s tough and very good at killing people in rather violent ways. Probably doesn’t talk much and is a lot smarter than he lets on.
B: the thief, he’s small, he’s smart, and he’s very good at getting into and out of situations that usually require violence. He probably has a tendency to throw caution to the wind; since he’s backed up by the warrior.
C: the spell caster. A magic user; but one that only resorts to magic when necessary. Sort of the nuclear option for the group. This character is more an ally than part of the team and rarely shows up unless there are supernatural elements at play.

I'll work up some characters and eventually post them up.

[warty goblin]

I think this is a great idea, but it may work better if we take it in a slightly different direction.

Rather than people coming up with a single (group of) characters, it might work better to collaborate on the world, tone and setting, and anybody who wants can write their own characters that fit within said framework. That way nobody ends up writing about characters they don't find interesting, the protagonists don't feel designed by committee, but the world they operate in can be large, varied and profit from having multiple contributors. As a group we've got a much broader knowledge of genre and historical texts to pull from than anybody individually, but we don't necessary all want to write about the same sorts of people.

Setting-wise, I'd propose something tuned roughly around the Mediterranean late bronze age, say 1400 - 1200 BC or thereabouts. This has, I think, some substantial advantages;

International trade is important, but travel is still dangerous. So people can believably move around, and still have plenty of adventures doing it.
There's already a really staggering amount of history, so you can have plenty of dark secrets, buried tombs and so forth. At the same time it's not the same-old same-old medieval Europe we're used to, but can call directly on Greek, Egyptian and ancient near Eastern mythology, which when done relatively straight-up is full of somewhat familiar things, but soaked in stuff that to the modern eye can be exceedingly strange.
There's very substantial differences in the level of 'civilization' over distance. Some places have walled cities, administrators and writing. Others will be occupied by small illiterate bands. The balance of population and technology is still flat enough between these that each group can represent a very substantial threat to the other. So you can get your marauding barbarian hordes, and great clashes beneath walled citadels, and totally kickass protagonists who fit in either (or both) milieus.
Body armor exists, but is rare. So there's plenty of excuse for fighting as close to nude as one feels is heroically appropriate. But if you want, you can wear a breastplage, greaves, helm, the works.

The only real downside is that, apart from extra-large spears, there aren't any two handed weapons around. But whatever, if you can't crush your enemies without a two-handed axe, you're just a poser, and not really fit to sack any enemy citadels in the first place.

Now to go real S&S, I'd propose limiting non-human sapient races pretty sharply. Certainly nothing as medieval and - to modern audiences - prosaic as elves and dwarves. The occasional unspeakably ancient city of blasphemous snake-people or other antediluvian horrors is a natural fit. Magic should similarly be more or less out of protagonists' hands, since those are old and scary powers, little bits of the chaos of creation seeping into the world and generally making life unpleasant for humans. A foul spirit that demands human sacrifice, and has enslaved the forest tribes to its twisted will is good, the protagonist killing it with a fireball is not. This isn't to say that heroes have to be dumb sacks of muscle, but magic should be generally inhuman, usually used for evil purposes, and the hero should usually overcome those who use it through cunning, strength and courage, and (depending on the sort of tone you want) occasional divine aid.

[gooddragon1]

Love this idea. so here goes

I think we should make this episodic nature; it makes it easier for others to pop in and start writing besides Conan is basically an anthology anyway.

As for magic; I sort of default to costly and restrictive magic but I love the idea of technology=magic.

Lastly I think we should rock with a three person group such as:
A: the warrior, he’s big, he’s tough and very good at killing people in rather violent ways. Probably doesn’t talk much and is a lot smarter than he lets on.
B: the thief, he’s small, he’s smart, and he’s very good at getting into and out of situations that usually require violence. He probably has a tendency to throw caution to the wind; since he’s backed up by the warrior.
C: the spell caster. A magic user; but one that only resorts to magic when necessary. Sort of the nuclear option for the group. This character is more an ally than part of the team and rarely shows up unless there are supernatural elements at play.

I'll work up some characters and eventually post them up.

On second thought, making it more traditional in many of the respects (including restrictive magic) could make it easier to write. Which raises another question: Easier to write or quirky and different? Easier to write makes it more likely to happen. Quirky makes it stand out. I don't know which would be better.

[Fri]

Here's my one and only request.

I'd like to see interesting magic, but not something that's obviously "gamey."

If there are magic users, I'd like them to see magic, but in a way that people would find a hard way trying to put it in a tabletop or video game system but still consistent. I'm not sure myself what I mean honestly, but what I think is something that's obviously hard to use in casual dungeon crawling games, have no clear "spell point" system, etc.

But the magic user doesn't have to be the "nuclear" option of the story. Honestly, a more limited harry potter style magic might be close, but if only we could make it much more consistent.

Slightly unrelated, on "nuclear option" I remember a funny character in a fantasy manga. The party has the classic swordman-thief-cleric-mage composition, but with twists. The mage's twist is, she can only use one and one spell only. The highest class destruction spell that create an area wide powerful explosion, once per day (not by choice, it's because that spell is really powerful and drain all of her stamina). She can't, and won't cast any other spell. It's a rare spell, and very powerful, and just by that we know the mage is someone magically gifted or smart, but her use is very limited.

[NovenFromTheSun]

This sounds fun. I'll contribute were I can.

Regarding magic: I personally would prefer many seemingly separate phenomena that can't easily be fit into one big theory of magic.

[Yora]

I think the first thing to decide would be the general format. We could have a novel with each chapter written by someone else, but I don't think that would be really satisfying and would take a very long time. Or we do a collection of stories that are either about the same characters, or about different characters in the same place. I think both of these would be interesting. In once case we would create characters and see how each of us interpretes them, and in the other we would create a small setting and see different takes on it.

Either way, we need a setting. And I think it should be approached practical, with the specific needs of this undertaking in mind. Which means it should be small in scope and easy to grasp, using a lot of well known archetypes so we can get to work quickly and don't get bogged down in detailed worldbuilding by commitee.

I would say we should not bother with anything like a map of detailed politics at all. There's none for Lankhmar or the stories of Kane, and very little in most stories of Conan. If several people want to set their tale in a city, it might be interesting to make a rough outline for one shared between the stories. But otherwise I think we can just make up castles, villages, forests, and mountains as we feel like.

For the sake of simplicity, I would go with only humans and no other intelligent peoples. Though if there's demand for them, I think it would be best to keep it simple with elves, dwarves, and orcs. Anything more unique would first have to be developed to considerable degree before multiple people can write about them simultaneously.

If we're writing in the Sword & Sorcery tradition, I think magic should really be a mysterious force with unclear boundaries and results that are hard to predict. Occult science like alchemy or Kabala, were everything is done by strict rules and formulas is not very magical. At least if the heroes and the readers get knowledge of these rules. If it's all esoteric magi-babble that is completely incomprehensible to the heroes that would also work.
I think it would also be best if sorcerers don't throw around fire balls and laser beams at will and command armies of golems and teleport around with the snap of a finger. I very much like the idea of sorcerers being primarily sages who know ancient rituals to communicate with weird and alien spirits from other worlds, who in turn do the heavy lifting of performing magic. The sorcerers' own power would primarily be hypnosis, amulets, potions, and the like.

As society and technolgy goes, I would love to go with something simple. Warlords, robber barons, petty kings, and so on. Say something like 6th to 9th century Europe or the Japanese civil war period in the 14th and 15th century. Maybe some kind of Mongol horde swept through the area a generation ago and the land is now in a pretty post-apocalyptic state with no government and mostly lawless wilderness. And of course lots of abandoned villages and destroyed castles haunted by undead. Should provide a good stage for a wide range of stories.

Actually, I like the idea, so here's my pitch for a setting: A fictional version of the valley of the Danube river in central and southeast Europe, where a horde of invaders from the east swept through and destroyed the stand-in for the Roman Empire 30 years ago. The region was a remote province and with the collapse of central government and large scale trade nobody really knows what's going on in the old capital and the heartlands. So the people formed their own new social order based around warlords who were either military commanders cut of from their superiors without orders or supplies, or wealthy local landowners or merchanrs who hired mercenaries to protect their homes and had others come to them seeking protection. And there's also still bands of the eastern invaders who have settled down in villages in the forests. Some having made themselves independent barons, others living as bandits.
With the empire gone, all kinds of witches and shamans crawled out of the woodwork as people hope their magic might help them survive in these hard times. And times are so hard that people pay them very high prices in hope for protection from monsters attracted by the bloodshed and the restless spirits of the dead. And of course there's numerous strange cults worshiping ancient spirits that had been almost forgotten.

[Zmeoaice]

International trade is important, but travel is still dangerous. So people can believably move around, and still have plenty of adventures doing it.
There's already a really staggering amount of history, so you can have plenty of dark secrets, buried tombs and so forth. At the same time it's not the same-old same-old medieval Europe we're used to, but can call directly on Greek, Egyptian and ancient near Eastern mythology, which when done relatively straight-up is full of somewhat familiar things, but soaked in stuff that to the modern eye can be exceedingly strange.
There's very substantial differences in the level of 'civilization' over distance. Some places have walled cities, administrators and writing. Others will be occupied by small illiterate bands. The balance of population and technology is still flat enough between these that each group can represent a very substantial threat to the other. So you can get your marauding barbarian hordes, and great clashes beneath walled citadels, and totally kickass protagonists who fit in either (or both) milieus.
Body armor exists, but is rare. So there's plenty of excuse for fighting as close to nude as one feels is heroically appropriate. But if you want, you can wear a breastplage, greaves, helm, the works.
[/LIST]

I think it should take place in the Ancient Near East since that has a lot of potential and hasn't really been used in Fantasy works which usually do Medieval Europe or a mish mosh of time periods.

Most of the countries could be small city-states with a few superpowers here and there. I think we also should use fantasy races that were believed by the Ancient Greeks, Persians, and Palestinians, including

Satyr- Horny goat people who like beer
Dryad- Tree people
Centaur- Human with horse torso wast thingy
Cyclopes- One Eyed ugly people
Harpy- Bird people
Peri- Winged people
Nephilim- Big people that are the offspring of humans and angels

Probably some others.

[Yora]

But what does the average fantasy fan with a passing interest in history know about the ancient near east? I am an ancient history buff and know pretty much nothing. With such a setting we probably would have to start from scratch and each story would have to familiarize the readers with the culture and society.
Certainly a very interesting source of inspiration, but I think not well suited for a casual collaboration.

[NovenFromTheSun]

What about climate? Should it have two or three major biomes or more of a mix? That will effect how the civilizations act.

My own preference would be a region on the border of different wind currents.

[warty goblin]

So it seems to me there's a good bit of enthusiasm for people writing sword and sorcery here. There's just a lot less enthusiasm for any sort of common set of characters or world. I think this suggests that everybody who wants to writes whatever S&S'esque short story they want, using whatever character in whatever time and place they so desire. Then, since this is the S&S thread, they post it here for mutual enjoyment. Since S&S is mostly about weird things happening to unusual people, I think this actually works quite well; everybody gets to do what interests them, and hopefully we all get some fun new stories about weird crap.

Thoughts?

[Fri]

I actually agree with that. We could compile the unrelated short stories we write, and try to join them together and turn them into one weird setting, ala "Thieves World".

[TheThan]

Yeah, I’m totally for the shared universe.
I’m going to start writing something. I’m going the short story approach.

I think we can start filling in a world map or something when we get things actually written.

[Fri]

I'll open with a very short and somewhat open-setting story.

As I walked down the marketplace to buy some groceries, I saw a man accosting people on the cobbled street.

He's long-haired and unkempt, with dirty white beard running up to his knees. He then looked at my face for a while.

"Miss." He said. "It seems that you are the chosen one. Do you care to follow me to my kiosk for a second?"

I politely held my hands up and quickly walk past the weirdo. As I glanced back from afar, he looks a bit sad, before accosting my neighbor with the exact same line.

That was six month ago.

As I walked through the market today I saw my neighbor. I haven't seen him for a while. He said he's just back from Holy Mount Ouranos. It turned out he's the one chosen to find the Holy Pear. On his way he achieved enlightement, defeated the force of darkness, and restored the balance of the world.

Looking at his shining halo and his rune-encrusted sword, I don't think he's lying.

[Dienekes]

While I like both the original idea and Warty's but it is Eldan's book/idea/thing.


So, if we do want to do a single setting or story just to see if we can, we might want to vote on things like the setting, magic, monstrous races, and so on in a reasonably organized manner so we don't have so much spitballing that gets lost in the wave of ideas.

With Eldan's go ahead. Maybe we can start by simply saying our ideas of setting, then voting when we've got all of them. So far we have:

-Bronze Age Mediterranean inspired
-Post Apocalypse
-Post fall of "Rome"


Are there any other specific setting ideas?

[Thrudd]

I don't think there's a need to all agree on all the details of the setting in the beginning. Conan stories, for example, take place in a variety of settings and pseudo-cultures with all sorts of different sorts of magic and magic users. Sometimes he's in pseudo-Egypt, other times he's in pseudo Rome or Scandinavia or Darkest Africa. Each story and location had its own mythology, people and weird magic and creatures, with only a few of them linking together in any way (other than the fact that Conan was in them).

Every chapter could take the hero or heroes to a different place. Once a person, place, creature, or type of magic is established by someone, it shouldn't be contradicted by someone else. The main thing to do, pre-draft, will be to decide on a common protagonist or a few potential protagonists, establishing maybe some key personality descriptors and how they are connected to the world (briefly).

It makes most sense for such a collaboration to be a collection of short stories, rather than a novel or novella. Once the first draft short stories or chapters are written, the collaborators review them all. Vote on anything that feels out of place for the collection and agree on which conflicting bits should stay and go (there will be conflicting elements in the first drafts). The second drafts will rectify conflicting lore and characterization and use elements of other people's stories to help make the collection feel more cohesive. Maybe some people will decide to scrap their original draft and take off on something new inspired by someone else's story. The key will be, leave ego at the door and just have fun engaging in the process of writing and collaboration, try not to take personally if something you write gets voted out. The more people can do that, with the goal of contributing to a group effort and embracing a common vision, the better the end product will be.

Remember, even if you write something that ends up not fitting in with the collection, it doesn't mean it was a waste or that it isn't good. It just might belong somewhere else, in a different story or world.

Here's an example: Fulder - A man of greater than average size, hair the color of wet sand which grows thick on his chest, arms and legs as well as his face and head. He is a veteran of many combats and skilled with all common types of weapons, especially spear, axe and knife as well as his bare hands. He is jovial by nature, preferring laughter to scowling and often has a joke or quip on his tongue. While not unintelligent, he is uneducated and must make a living using the skills at his disposal: strength and skill at arms, hiring out as a mercenary, body guard, and not above resorting to some light banditry. In the face of danger his humor takes on a darker tone, as he mocks mortality or gleefully embraces battle-lust. His enemies are often unnerved by his ability to grin or laugh at them as he seemingly ignores peril and his own wounds.

[rooster707]

I'd love to contribute to this, but I have yet to ever finish anything I've written that wasn't for school, so...

[NovenFromTheSun]

i think "stories now continuity later" may actually be the best idea, if people are still interested. I could get started on something tomorrow actually, but I'm going to need more than one draft to make anything decent.

[Yora]

Alright, since Eldan doesn't appear to be coming back to his original idea but plenty of people seem to be interested in doing something similar, let's establish some common ground.

"Many stories in one setting" seems to have a lot of support and will be the easiest to do. So we will have to establish some basic facts about the setting:

What kind of cultural inspiration? Since we want to write stories and not get into a big worldbuilding project, taking some shortcuts seems the best thing to do. What kind of relatively well known culture should be our main inspiration?
What kind of technology level? This could be almost everything from stone age to magitech.
What kind of landscape? Here we might not need to be too specific. If we don't have a setting map we can make up places as we like. Even on such a small continent as Europe we have a wide range of environments or we could just take a region similar to the USA where you can find close to almost everything.
What is magic? This is a pretty important one, and perhaps the most important in creating a world that feels like it's a single thing and not completely unrelated stories.
What are monsters? Similar to the previous one. Are monsters big animals or demons? Do both kinds exist? Are undead a big thing?
What is the general atmosphere? Last humans at the end of time would be a very different thing than Two Drunks Wrecking A Crazy City or a tale of airship pirates exploring a jungle world.

I quite like the idea of having an Empire of Pseudo-Romans being invaded by Pseudo-Mongols. This creates three zones of locations. Inside the Empire, inside the Horde Lands, and the border region dominated by destroyed villages and battlefields covered by rottong corpses. Something for everyone but easy to grasp and not difficult to keep somewhat consistent. This also takes care of the technology question.
For the barbarians I'd like to have magic be the work of witches who sacrifice humans to evil predatory nature spirits. Not sure about the Imperials. Giving them priests who channel the power of the gods would be a bit too pedestrian high-fantasy to me. If they have magic at all, it should be something equally weird and quirky.
If the world is gripped in a massive war, I would love to have plenty of undead. Ghouls and wraiths haunting battlefields are great.
For a general style, I think it would be nice to make stories related to the hellish horrors unleashed by sorcerers on both sides and the evil cults that spread among the starving population who is selling their souls in desperation.

[Eldan]

I'm still here, occasionally, looking in.

That said, I don't think we need to limit ourselves to one culture or one type of story. Especially if we all write different characters. If I can make a suggestion, I'd say the most important thing is getting a more or less consistent tone to the world. I'd say questions like "How obvious is magic" "What are the gods" "Are there intelligent races other than humans that are visibily active in the world" and other such things are more important, if one person can just write a story set a few thousand miles away.

I like an antique time frame. The medieval is overdone. Sure, antiquity is almost as overdone, but at least it's not the 19th century.

For the Romans, look at what magic romans actually believed in? Majorly, Augury. Augry is always good. And very versatile, with hundreds of methods. Animal entrails? Fire? Birds? Water? Sand? All possible. It can also be as vagues as the author wants it to be.

As for the gods, how about we go with a different approach to the one common in RPGs where service to god -> magic? Gods are not generally bene.volent. They are forces of nature. Sacrifce and correct worship does not bring down the god's favour, as such. It removes their wrath. It's a thematic difference. Offering a sheep before a sea voyage does not send you magic winds. It just makes it less likely for sea serpents or storm spirits to eat your ship.

[Yora]

Indifferent gods that need to be bribed to leave you alone, and spirits who can be hired with sacrifices to destroy your enemies sounds like a good approach to me.

What about fire, lightning, telekinesis, and force walls? My preference is to avoid simple fire and forget spells where you just wave your hand and something simple and obious happens immediately. Those aren't really interesting and there's nothing mysterious about them. If it can be replicated with a gun or grenade, I would leave it out. Also everything that basically makes magic into an everyday convenience for lazy sorcerers, like brooms that sweep the floor by themselves or a magic box that cools your drinks. I would rather treat magic as always being very serious business, not a convenience.
Instead the more interesting magic is mind-control, illusions, necromancy, and summoning. That makes for much more fascinating story. I also think lots of potions or powders are always cool.

[Eldan]

Summoning is always fun. It's the best magic to go wrong, along with Necromancy.

[Dienekes]

Personally, I've always preferred the less more mysterious magic the better when it comes to fantasy settings.

Sure there might be some crazy guy who can create fire from rubbing various powders and minerals and calls it some impressive title, but it really isn't much more effective than the written sources on Greek Fire, or something similar. The wizards that can just wiggle their fingers and cast a spell, from illusions to fireballs never particularly interested me as anything but villains for other characters that actually have to work for their influence into the world to overcome. Keeping the magic contained to mind-control, illusions, necromancy, and summoning works for me. But I would like there to be much more to it than the guy studied how to make illusions and now can make illusions with a word. Each spell requiring some sort of actual sacrifice would be cool (not a vague "Oh, I'm winded because I cast a spell give me a second to rest and I'll be good again).

As for the gods, I've always been a fan of having multiple competing religions. Sure the main one in the setting could have the angry gods that need to be soothed (I like that concept), but I'd like there to be a few more religions as well.

But more important, I think would be deciding how present the gods/religions should be? Will prayers be answered? Should the gods be actual characters that can be interacted with?

[Yora]

So you're thinking sorcerers more like mad scientists who spend most of their time researching and preparing for a big experiment or machine where the true magic happens? Would certainly work for me.
Howard and Wagner almost always did that, and Moorcock somewhat similar. Magic isn't something you shot at enemies but more arcane and esoteric.

I think (true) gods would have to be pretty distance and rather undefined. Gods who have their fingers in everything don't really mesh together with the scope of individual heroes defying the rules. How much impact a god has on society should depend primarily on how much power his priests have.

Another thing I've been thinking about is monsters. In my experience it's usually quite important to have a clear distinction between what is normal and natural, and what is abnormal and unnatural. When magical creatures are part of nature, the appearance of demons and aliens isn't such a big thing. They are just sitting higher up on the food chain, which leaves you losing out on a lot of interesting things you can do with Sword & Sorcery.
A big tiger or shark can be totally deadly and horrific, but they are just part of nature. The appearance of magical creatures should mean that something has gone very wrong. This would be especially important if we go with magic that is very exclusive to a small group of sorcerers and absent in the everyday life of people.
But going with only normal animals is somewhat boring. Something I found to work really well for my own worldbuilding work is to use a lot of extinct prehistoric animals. These can be very big and scary, but they still feel rather natural because they are actual animals that really did exist in nature. For us this would also have the added benefit that we would have an easily defined common pool of fantastic beasts. Mammoths, sabertooth cats, dire boars, giant lizards, huge snakes, giant wombats, whatever you want. No need to come up with a list of creatures and what would be appropriate or inappropriate for the setting. The other group of creatures would be alien demons and there everyone can really let loose completely with their creativity.

[Dienekes]

So you're thinking sorcerers more like mad scientists who spend most of their time researching and preparing for a big experiment or machine where the true magic happens? Would certainly work for me.
Howard and Wagner almost always did that, and Moorcock somewhat similar. Magic isn't something you shot at enemies but more arcane and esoteric.

Yeah, kinda, in my mind a wizard/sorcerer/mage/whatever would be like Archimedes more than Harry Potter. They create wonders the likes of which a normal person couldn't even conceive of, but it takes work, time, and genius to even understand what's going on. A normal person walking in on a wizards spell would be like the soldiers that killed Archimedes, they see him alone in a room full of incomprehensible designs, writings, and what for them don't have any meaning or sense. And when they killed him all he says was "Don't disturb my circles," except where Archimedes' circles were some mathematic proof or something, for one of our settings wizards they could have been one of the steps required in working out how to raise a dead nephew, or place some enchantment on the door, or whatever.


I think (true) gods would have to be pretty distance and rather undefined. Gods who have their fingers in everything don't really mesh together with the scope of individual heroes defying the rules. How much impact a god has on society should depend primarily on how much power his priests have.

I agree, but I've read a few stories I'd consider sword and sorcery where the gods did seem to have a hand in some key point or another. A few even talked to the protagonists. I prefer gods be distant though. Did the weather turn, saving the ship the protagonist was on, because the gods took pity, or did the weather turn because that's what weather does, kind of thing.


Another thing I've been thinking about is monsters. In my experience it's usually quite important to have a clear distinction between what is normal and natural, and what is abnormal and unnatural. When magical creatures are part of nature, the appearance of demons and aliens isn't such a big thing. They are just sitting higher up on the food chain, which leaves you losing out on a lot of interesting things you can do with Sword & Sorcery.
A big tiger or shark can be totally deadly and horrific, but they are just part of nature. The appearance of magical creatures should mean that something has gone very wrong. This would be especially important if we go with magic that is very exclusive to a small group of sorcerers and absent in the everyday life of people.
But going with only normal animals is somewhat boring. Something I found to work really well for my own worldbuilding work is to use a lot of extinct prehistoric animals. These can be very big and scary, but they still feel rather natural because they are actual animals that really did exist in nature. For us this would also have the added benefit that we would have an easily defined common pool of fantastic beasts. Mammoths, sabertooth cats, dire boars, giant lizards, huge snakes, giant wombats, whatever you want. No need to come up with a list of creatures and what would be appropriate or inappropriate for the setting. The other group of creatures would be alien demons and there everyone can really let loose completely with their creativity.

For my own writing (half formed scribbling would be more apt description) I've gotten a lot of weight out of creatures that may very well be just normal everyday creatures with maybe a different name just described instead of saying "that's a panther."

Personally, I would view a distinction between imagined animals and true monsters. Imagined animals could be inspired by anything or just made up wholesale so long as they could theoretically fit in an actual ecosystem and don't seem to be too magical.

If we're going with lower subtle magic imagined animals would probably fit the setting's tone better. With maybe true magical monsters only coming from a summoning spell.

That's a long way of saying I agree with you on what you say about monsters.

[Yora]

I agree, but I've read a few stories I'd consider sword and sorcery where the gods did seem to have a hand in some key point or another. A few even talked to the protagonists. I prefer gods be distant though. Did the weather turn, saving the ship the protagonist was on, because the gods took pity, or did the weather turn because that's what weather does, kind of thing.
As I mentioned earlier (broken record, I know) for a collaborative effort with little pre-established facts, I think it's smartest to start relatively generic and traditional instead of breaking into new ground. Simple so we have some common frame of reference.

I really like the thought of us starting independently with only a very rough outline for a setting and just writing what we think would be near within that frame. And then when we got some early drafts ready we can start picking setting elements from each other and using them to expand our own stories. And then building on those results if we get around to a second round of stories.
Similar to how the first season of most Star Trek shows go: Basically throwing a lot of things at the wall and seeing what sticks. But not simply by sharing ideas and debating their pros and cons as concepts, but by waiting and seeing which elements get picked up by others.


A normal person walking in on a wizards spell would be like the soldiers that killed Archimedes, they see him alone in a room full of incomprehensible designs, writings, and what for them don't have any meaning or sense. And when they killed him all he says was "Don't disturb my circles," except where Archimedes' circles were some mathematic proof or something, for one of our settings wizards they could have been one of the steps required in working out how to raise a dead nephew, or place some enchantment on the door, or whatever.
Dibs! :smallbiggrin:

[Eldan]

You can't just call Dibs on Archimedes! He's too cool!

Regarding different religions: I would prefer if they weren't just "I worship god X, you worship god Y, hence we are enemies". I prefer, let's say, the Elder Scrolls approach. Mystery cults and heresies within existing religions are much more interesting than a group worshipping the fire god at war with a group worshipping the water god. Or even worse, a group worshipping the senslessly evil god.

The first idea for a character we had, based on the setting now outlined, is actually not the typical warlike outsider, but an official of the state. Something like a Roman Censor or Quaestor or a church inquisitor, who gets sent to the provinces to clean up unpopular things.

[Thrudd]

Just start writing, if we're serious about the project. Compare drafts and vote on what elements should stay and go for the revisions. Don't worry about matching the nature of magic or cosmology or gods, we'll figure that stuff out after we have actually seen what people come up with. There are always revisions, sometimes that will look nothing like the original. Don't expect to get everything or anything "right" on the first draft. Throw stuff out there and see what meshes with the committee's agreed vision.

[Dienekes]

Dibs! :smallbiggrin:

Dibs? Dude come on, I wrote it!

Actually, truth be told I'm just glad you like the idea. I always preferred writing the normal folk in a fantasy setting, the ones who look at Archimedes with wonder, or those who see the amazing things he accomplishes and still tries to find a way to beat him.

[Yora]

I think there should be some minimum of common ground. Would hate to write a low magi story and see that several other people have magic airships and teleportation stations everywhere.
But I think those common ground rules don't need to go any deeper than the degree we're currently discussion. What countries, beasts, and gods there are specifically is something we can make up as we go.

Which is why I think Eldan's suggestion to treat religion in an Elder Scroll-ish way is a good idea. A lot of people know roughly how that looks and it's easy to grasp, and it allows us to make up gods, temples, and rites as we go. It also has the nice side effect that it will be very easy to splice things together later. We can just say that the god we wrote about is really the same one that appeared in someone elses stories, just worshiped by a different cult. Even if they have different names. :smallbiggrin:

I think I could easily get working with just this bit of consensus among the three of us. But if anyone thinks there's a better way to do some of these things, they really should be mentioned now. Might be they are actually a lot better. :smallcool:

Actually, I already know what my story will be, regardless of setting frame:

Djingis Khan vs. Predator

[Ranxerox]

Just to throw a preference out there, where gods in fiction are concerned I have always been partial to using existing mythological deities and opting for one of there really old versions. So instead of Thor, you might go with Taranis, or instead of Zeus, Dyaus.

[Yora]

That being said, is everyone on boat with not using any people and places from history for this world? At least by name, something directly based on real world things wouldn't be an issue, I believe.

[BRC]

On the subject of Religions, I'm fond of the idea of mystery cults, especially if Religion is largely about bribing/appeasing Gods to avoid their wrath, rather than to gain favor.

Religious Rites become a state secret.

Consider, the city of Arg sits on an island that is sacred to Argelivus, God of Storms. The priesthood of Argelivus rules the Island, performing sacrifices and secret rites to keep Argelivus appeased. If the Priests did not perform their duties, Argelivus would, in his wrath destroy the Island with a mighty storm.
More importantly, nobody dares conquer the Island, for the Priests would die before giving up their secrets, and without those secrets, the storm god's wrath would destroy the invaders along with the faithful.

So, it is common sense that the Priests keep their rites secretive. This also leaves plenty of room for Corruption, since the people of the Island don't know the Rites, they have no way of knowing what requests the Priests make are legitimate.

The Priests say "Argelivus commands that you build us a new Temple", and they do so. They say "We require funds to appease Argelivus, pay us a tithe!" and the people do so. They stand in their observatories, reading the future in the formation of storms. "This man has angered Argelivus, Banish him from the Island".

Our Protagonist may be brought to the island by a local official, who is suspicious that the new High Priest has been exploiting the mysteries for his own gain. The high priest has demanded massive tithes, a private army, and numerous concubines for the temple. It is not enough that our protagonist slay the corrupt Priest, he must also find an honest member of the Priesthood to take his place and make sure the Rites are observed.

Now, this can tie into the idea of Monsters as well. The Gods are whimsical and proud beings, far more prone to punish than to Reward. Monsters are almost always the result of Divine Retribution. A Thief steals from a temple, and is transformed into a hideous creature of pain, rage, and greed. A sacred spring is defiled, and the locals who failed to protect it are turned into serpent-men. A temple is abandoned, it's cults vanish and the rites go unperformed, so the God vents it's rage by twisting the surrounding people and wildlife into monsters, to punish the world for not worshiping it. The appearance of Monsters in an area could be a sign that the local mystery cults have become lax in their worship. A band of warrior-priests, dedicated to a War god, may be so overwhelmed with the glory they have won that they fail to give thanks to their patron for their victories. As a result, their once-defeated foes rise again as undead, the vengeful war god refusing to let them rest until he is properly acknowledged (no proof that the war god was actually responsible for the victories, but he wants to be thanked anyway).

Spirits are basically Lesser Gods. They don't have the luxury of sending monsters to do their bidding, they must manifest physically, which makes them vulnerable to being killed (It's not easy, but it can happen). A Spirit may inhabit a sacred grove, or a spring, or guard a tomb. If it has any "Worshippers", they're often more like locals it has befriended. Spirits can be bribed or bound into assisting you, if you know how.

As for magic, I could see magic coming in three forms.


1) High Magic, controlled by the priests of the mystery cults, mostly takes the form of Auguries and Divinations.
2) Scholar's Magic, the magic of wizards and sorcerers, Complicated rituals. Enchantments, Summoning, and Alchemy for the most part. Crafting magic blades, enchanted fortresses, greek fire. Binding Spirits, maybe even raising the dead.
3) Hedge Magic, the magic of Witches and Hermits. Unofficial, unorganized, hard to classify. Usually a mix of common sense and mystic power. A Sea Witch may know how to save a drowning man, but is she infusing her breath with magic, or is she just doing CPR? The hermit who lives in the grove is said to be a powerful healer, using a combination of Magic, knowledge of local medicinal herbs, and keeping a wound clean so it won't get infected. Tradition, Superstition, Theater, and Common Sense combine to form Hedge Magic. Most Hedge Mages are benevolent, but they have a fearful reputation for cursing those who wrong them. Many Hedge Mages are friends with local Spirits.
Our Protagonist may be sent on a quest by a Priest, whose High Magic lets them see a great danger rising in the east.
They may receive an enchanted blade from a Sorceror.
Once they close in on the threat, they may seek the counsel of a local Witch, whose knowledge of the local area may be the key to stopping the crisis.

[Eldan]

Religious Rites become a state secret.


Rome went farther than that, historically: they had secret gods. They had an official trinity of City Gods (Iupiter, Minerva and Iuno). But since they believed that an enemy could ritually steal the favour of a god from a city or nation (and did so to their enemies numerous times), they gave the city of Rome a secret name, which wasn't allowed to be spoken out loud and apparently worshipped another trio of gods in secret, though not even most citizens knew who they were. That's in addition to the mystery cults, where it was commonly known who was worshipped, but not how.

[BRC]

Rome went farther than that, historically: they had secret gods. They had an official trinity of City Gods (Iupiter, Minerva and Iuno). But since they believed that an enemy could ritually steal the favour of a god from a city or nation (and did so to their enemies numerous times), they gave the city of Rome a secret name, which wasn't allowed to be spoken out loud and apparently worshipped another trio of gods in secret, though not even most citizens knew who they were. That's in addition to the mystery cults, where it was commonly known who was worshipped, but not how.

Hrmm, that's a good idea for a story.

Our Hero arrives in a town that has been plagued by monsters or disease. As far as they can tell, this area is sacred to no particular god, or if it is, the local mystery cult seems to be in order. The troubles started with a series of mysterious, apparently unconnected murders.

It turns out, these Murders are the result of somebody targeting the members of a secret cult. With the Cult afraid to meet, for fear of being killed, and with their leaders dead, the rites are going unobserved, and the local God, normally a benevolent deity of healing, is venting his rage on the city.

[Eldan]

That would play into the character of the Imperial Censor out in the provinces.

Though I would perhaps turn it around. A city state has always been unusually prosperous. One day, a group of old men, on their way home from a feast, is killed in a robbery that turned bloody. Days later, a terrible disease begins to wrack the city and no one knows why. The old men are priests of the mystery cult, of course, but not even most city official's even know the cult existed. Re-instating the cult would be part of it. Perhaps, to bring in a bit more Sword and Sorcery Action, by delving into a long-abandoned Sanctum Sanctorum and retrieving the cult's oldest writings.

(This reminds me of an entirely different thing, the Spiral Hecatomb from China Miéville's Iron Council. A city state is at war with another and apparently winning, though losses on both sides is atrocious. But in one of the very final chapters, it turns out that the random, apparently mad homeless man who has stumbled in and out of other chapters is actually a high priest of an enemy religion, and the spiralling grafiti he has been painting all over town is a magical ritual that will awaken the city's genius loci and make it kill all its inhabitants.)

[Yora]

If nobody adds any new suggestions about what kind of setting the world should be, I'll start writing tomorrow. :smalltongue:

Though one thing I am still having difficulties with is deciding on a mood and atmosphere. When I am able to pick everything, nothing stands out as calling for being explored.

[BRC]

If nobody adds any new suggestions about what kind of setting the world should be, I'll start writing tomorrow. :smalltongue:

Though one thing I am still having difficulties with is deciding on a mood and atmosphere. When I am able to pick everything, nothing stands out as calling for being explored.

So far the big theme I'm seeing is Mystery and Truth.

Religion is handled by Mystery Cults who keep their rites secret.

Sorcerors work using forces too esoteric to understand without a lifetime of study.

Gods demand their whims be followed, but only communicate with vague augeries and harsh punishments.

And into all this, we have our Hero, our Censor, set out into the place where civilization meets the wilderness with a sword, a bow, and a badge. He's here to discover the truth, to see through the mists, the lies, and the secrets.

And with secrets, comes Corruption.

Some things to be explored.

1) The Mystery Cults, how they appease the gods, and what role they play in society.

2) The Empire. As we have it now, our Hero is an authority figure. But, it's no fun if he can call upon an army, or the good will of the people anytime he desires. I would say that our stories take place at the edge of the empire, recently conquered territories. Our Hero could be a local, or an Imperial himself. Right now he's a Censor, but that dosn't mean his true loyalties lie with the Empire. Plus, locals suddenly finding themselves under Imperial rule.

3) Monsters. Right now, Monsters and Curses all stem from a wronged god (or, I guess, a malicious wizard). This means that no Monster exists in a vacuum. There is never "Just" a Hydra. Defeating a monster means both slaying the beast, and figuring out what caused it to be created in the first place.


on the subject of the Empire, if our Hero is an Imperial Censor, we need to establish some vague politics.

I'm seeing a series of semi-independent towns/cities in the Wilderness. The Imperial Legions regularly come through here. If the locals willingly submit, and don't occupy a particularly important place, the Imperials plant a flag, install a representative at the local court, give him a handful of guards/tax collectors, and move on. This means that most of the locals are self-governing, with various degrees of loyalty to the Empire. Still, they have their own local cultures and traditions.

Other places, either because they resisted, or because they are strategically important, are put under the control of an Imperial Governor, with a garrison of troops. These Governors are a proud and ambitious lot who have absolute authority within their holdings, and do not necessarily have to answer to the Censor.

And between, there are the places that never submitted. The warriors that hid in the hills and woods as the Armies planted their flags and moved on. The Emperor's Generals don't care about securing territory, they care about taking it. They care about sending home carts full of spoils and maps showing territory conquered. Once territory is captured, it's not their problem. It's the problem of whichever governor or local leaders they left in charge, and if THEY can't handle it, it's a problem for a Censor.

[Yora]

One primary empire plus border regions (and possible other empires) sounds great.

Now for establishing a mood: Is the empire rising or declining?

In eithe case, I think it should be generally seen as a bad thing. If the empire is expanding, there's a lot anxiety in those places soon to be conquered and harsh subjugation of the newly conquered citizens. Barbarians are fighting an unstoppable behemoth while Imperial soldiers are hacking paths into the untamed wilderness.
If the empire is shrinking then the people in the lost territories are abandoned without imperial protection while those inside the border are dreading the approaching end of their way of life. Imperial soldiers are constantly in a futile struggle to keep back the approaching tide of savagery while the barbarians are eager to get back at their struggling oppressors.

Both have their merits, but we can only have one of them.

Oh, and are we going with a Roman empire or perhaps something more Egyptian or Babylonian? I think Roman has been done a lot of times and is a rather safe environment with its familiar institution and efficient order.

[BRC]

I say Expanding. New people and new traditions, people who have had no time to assimilate to Imperial rule.

That also gives us a nice title. The Age of Conquest.

As for the Imperial Aesthetic, I'm fond of Roman, but we could do whatever, or even mash up various things. Maybe this particular empire is more of an Ascendant version of Carthage?

[Yora]

Oh yeah, Carthage would be cool. In many ways similar to Romans, but in Africa.

[BRC]

Oh yeah, Carthage would be cool. In many ways similar to Romans, but in Africa.

Also, that adds a more nautical theme to the Empire, which can help with the "Border Regions" Idea. The heart of the Empire is overseas. Old trading colonies are becoming beachheads for invading armies, local mercenaries fight alongside solders from home. Our Hero may have authority, but those he answers to are months of travel and an ocean away.

[Yora]

I am always supporting more ships and islands in fantasy.

[BRC]

I am always supporting more ships and islands in fantasy.

maybe the Imperial homeland is a large island in the middle of our Mediterranean analogue, like some sort of supercharged version of Sicily that ate the bottom half of Italy before meeting up with Sardinia and dragging both of them d down towards Africa.

So, that gives us a few clear Cultural Zones.
I see our Empire being a trade Empire, that has recently (Perhaps after seeing powerful augeries, like a comet in the sky) that has recently become a Conquering Empire.

1) The Imperial Homeland
Proud cities, fat with the wealth of trade and conquest.

2) The Islands/Coasts. Familiar with the Empire's ships and people, perhaps home to long-standing colonies, they were surprised when the Empire's Armies arrived on their shores.

3) Inland, people unfamiliar with, and to, the Empire. The unstoppable war machine has marched through here like a stampede, planting flags and deposing kings in it's wake, with little care for the woes it leaves behind.


Edit: This also gives an interesting political vs Millitary dynamic.


Perhaps it's not an Empire, with an Emperor leading the troops, but instead we have a Hannibal/Caesar mashup figure, with a Senate at home. The Provinces, and the armies, swear loyalty to the Senate, but locally the power is in the hands of the Generals. Our Hero is an agent of the Senate, but his authority only exists so far as the locals respect the commands of a distant Senate. The armies of conquest will not always ride to his (or her) aid, the governors owe loyalty to the Generals who put them in power, not the Senate the Generals theoretically answer to. Were our hero to die, it would be months before anybody back home heard about it, and the death could be easily covered up.

This paints a picture of our Hero. They wander the provinces with a badge and a vague mission to secure the newly conquered Territories, to protect the Citizens and Subjects of the Empire, to ensure the Empire's interests are met, and to strike down corruption. Perhaps they have some unique badges of office. I like the idea of a blue cloak (Blue, specifically a deep rich blue, being the symbol of the Senate) indicating that they are an agent of the Senate, rather than of any general.

[Eldan]

I must admit that I know very little about Carthage outside of the context of them fighting the Romans. Their religion, their culture, their hierarchies, etc.

Are we all writing the same character? I sort of assumed different writers would have their own characters.

[Zigwat]

Alright, so I'm down with this all the way. I've been meaning to start some stories up myself, and this may be the inspiration I need. So, without the trouble of reading through the entire thread, what's the common consensus for writing this, and when were you planning to get started... and has it already started in another thread?

I just need to get the gist of what the story is going to be like so I know I'm not ruining something by writing all wrong.

[TheThan]

So I’ve started writing a bit of a story, I don’t have much more than a page written.
It’s about two rogues who get caught up in a run-away princess scenario; complete with haughty holier than thou (and mostly clueless) princess, her uptight but badass knightly bodyguard and our two scoundrel heroes, one of which is the big strong silent type, and the other more of a classic rogue. The rogue is the brains and mouth of the duo while the big man is the muscle. I might include a sorceress that helps them out; i haven't decided on that yet.


Right now I’m painting things in very broad strokes so it should be OK to plop into whatever sort of environment we settle on. I’m probably going to stay fairly far away from any politics because I feel that the heart of sword and sorcery is that it focuses on the individuals and not on the big picture. It’s not that it hurts having the big picture figured out; I just simply don’t feel it’s incredibly necessary when writing sword and sorcery. So I don’t have much to add to the conversation. If something comes up I’m very much against; I’ll put my two cents in.

[Yora]

Alright, so I'm down with this all the way. I've been meaning to start some stories up myself, and this may be the inspiration I need. So, without the trouble of reading through the entire thread, what's the common consensus for writing this, and when were you planning to get started... and has it already started in another thread?

I just need to get the gist of what the story is going to be like so I know I'm not ruining something by writing all wrong.

Nothing "officially" started or decided yet.

But it seems that there is some general consensus that the world will be roughly inspired by mediterranean Antiquity; that sorcerers are occult scholars who focus on mind-control, necromancy, and summoning over throwing fire and lightning; and that monsters are generally either very much like big animals or really strange beings from other dimensions.

And now we're starting to come up with stories set in such a world, making up cities, lands, and religions as we go. And if it goes well we can then pick up cool looking ideas from other people's stories and use them in our own.

[Dienekes]

I must admit that I know very little about Carthage outside of the context of them fighting the Romans. Their religion, their culture, their hierarchies, etc.

Are we all writing the same character? I sort of assumed different writers would have their own characters.

Honestly, Carthage was very similar to Rome in a lot of ways. They were both republics they both had two leaders that were elected once per year from the oligarchic older richer men in the city. They both had a senate and they both had a popular governing body to act as a check to the senate. However, the Carthaginian popular assembly was considered much more powerful than the Roman tribunes (and many saw this as a bad thing at the time).

Also in terms of ruling structure the Romans required military service to hold office during the time period that the Romans and Carthaginians fought while the Carthaginians did not. In fact their entire governing body was focused far more on gaining wealth and influence while the Romans were much more about military prowess and conquest. This is best shown by the two elected executive officials. The Judges, as they were in Carthage really directed trade policy and, well, judged people. While the Consuls did that as well, sometimes, but their real important job was to run the armies.

In terms of military structure Carthage looked a lot closer to Rome some 300 years later. They did have natural born Carthaginians who decided to join the military, but the huge majority of their armies were mercenaries, and that got them into trouble a few times when they couldn't pay them after a lost war. I could be wrong on this one, but Marius-like reforms where the soldiers became essentially retainers of specific aristocrats didn't really happen, except for the Barca family. Hannibal and a little with his dad took a group of mercenaries and soldiers and essentially made them their personal army. They were also way more focused on ships and their navy, and their armies focused a bit more on cavalry, since they had a contract with the Numidians that basically made them employed solely with Carthage, until the contract was completely ignored anyway.

In terms of religion, pantheistic, numerous gods, potential household dieties. A vague acceptance of the gods of other places like Egypt and Greece, fairly Roman-esque. The one thing that keeps on popping up when talking about Carthages religion is the sacrifice of babies and infants to their gods. Now, there are some historians who say that this was just propaganda by the Romans, but, in my opinion you find references to it in other non-Roman sources, and you find them fairly frequently. So there probably was something there, but it likely wasn't an everyday "let's kill some babies" ceremony as the Romans described it as.

[Eldan]

I'll have to start writing as soon as possible. I was siting in the train for an hour today, reading a scifi novel and at some point, the topic of religion came up. Specifically, a new and secretive religion. (Red Mars and Areophany, if anyone wants to know.)

I paused, looked outside the window, and when I arrived, I suddenly had five pages of notes, starting with a new mystery religion, then a few notes on The Imperial Cult, a few sketches of religious symbols, half an essay on the role of Atheism in this world, a few quotes from a priest during a ceremony, bits and pieces of what more established priests think about that religion and then a very vague outline of a probably pretty overcomplicated short story involving the threat of slave revolt, a new cult, religious politics, false coinage, an Imperial official investigating and possibly a monster and/or murder plot for a finale.

[Fri]

I don't really have much investment in this thread beyond the random short story I posted earlier, but I'm interested in seeing this take off, so please listen to my two cents. And I'm mentioning this exactly because the thread haven't gone too far.

This isn't the first joint writing attempt in this forum. And a previous joint writing attempt failed hard.

Because the thread was more interested in discussing about the nitty gritty of the setting (like, the tonnage of the capital ship, or how much energy would the giant robot need and what kind of reactor would power it, or how much food corruscant would need to feed its citizen in a day, or whether the setting would be faux japanese or faux korean etc), rather than actually writing any story. I'm pretty sure everyone thought it's important, and it will only need a little more time until we got the whole setting completely set up until the finest detail and knowing the finest detail would be really helpful in writing the story.

But honestly, it's really tempting to do and much "simpler" (I don't say easier) than actually writing story, so people trying to agree on more and more details, and no story actually was made. It's like when you try to write a paper and trying to get the "perfect" writing environment by adjusting the thermostat, putting perfect amount of chair pillow, and getting the perfect amount of reference book, rather than actually starting to write the paper.

So I'm hoping you guys who are interested are already writing a story. I see some people said that they have already start writing, and that's great! We can talk about the exact setting detail as we go, but we really should write some story already at that point. Edit the story when we agree or disagree at some specific point, but at least some people have to have stories posted already.

Just posting this in interest so that this idea won't die :).

[Dienekes]

I'll have to start writing as soon as possible. I was siting in the train for an hour today, reading a scifi novel and at some point, the topic of religion came up. Specifically, a new and secretive religion. (Red Mars and Areophany, if anyone wants to know.)

I paused, looked outside the window, and when I arrived, I suddenly had five pages of notes, starting with a new mystery religion, then a few notes on The Imperial Cult, a few sketches of religious symbols, half an essay on the role of Atheism in this world, a few quotes from a priest during a ceremony, bits and pieces of what more established priests think about that religion and then a very vague outline of a probably pretty overcomplicated short story involving the threat of slave revolt, a new cult, religious politics, false coinage, an Imperial official investigating and possibly a monster and/or murder plot for a finale.

That's a hell of a short story. I'd maybe try splitting it into 3ish short stories of the various major pieces.

Anyway, I'm currently thinking of a soldier piece that plays with the concept of what is thought of as honorable and acceptable behavior in the classic world. That should be fun.

[TheThan]

I don't really have much investment in this thread beyond the random short story I posted earlier, but I'm interested in seeing this take off, so please listen to my two cents. And I'm mentioning this exactly because the thread haven't gone too far.

This isn't the first joint writing attempt in this forum. And a previous joint writing attempt failed hard.

Because the thread was more interested in discussing about the nitty gritty of the setting (like, the tonnage of the capital ship, or how much energy would the giant robot need and what kind of reactor would power it, or how much food corruscant would need to feed its citizen in a day, or whether the setting would be faux japanese or faux korean etc), rather than actually writing any story. I'm pretty sure everyone thought it's important, and it will only need a little more time until we got the whole setting completely set up until the finest detail and knowing the finest detail would be really helpful in writing the story.

But honestly, it's really tempting to do and much "simpler" (I don't say easier) than actually writing story, so people trying to agree on more and more details, and no story actually was made. It's like when you try to write a paper and trying to get the "perfect" writing environment by adjusting the thermostat, putting perfect amount of chair pillow, and getting the perfect amount of reference book, rather than actually starting to write the paper.

So I'm hoping you guys who are interested are already writing a story. I see some people said that they have already start writing, and that's great! We can talk about the exact setting detail as we go, but we really should write some story already at that point. Edit the story when we agree or disagree at some specific point, but at least some people have to have stories posted already.

Just posting this in interest so that this idea won't die :).

I totally agree. It's very easy to spend so much time developing that nobody ever gets around to actually writing. that's why I personally have already started. I think it's better to put ink to paper first and work the details out later.