Making a giant

[mAc Chaos]

One of my friends wants to make a Giant race/class to play as in my D&D game. We're kicking around ideas and I wondered what everyone else thinks. And I'm not talking about a "giant" like in D&D where they're just big Ogres, but a REAL giant, like 100 feet tall or more. Obviously we could just handwave things or kick balance out the window, but we want to take a stab at actually making something balanced against the rest of the game but still capture the spirit of the concept.

For instance let's take HP for starters. You could give them a d20 for their hit die because they're Gargantuan size, but even 20 HP at level 1 is going to be quick work when a few Goblins are hitting you. And that obviously makes no sense since Goblins wouldn't even be up to the Giant's ankles.

[Moreplovac]

Foolish mongrel, how dare you ask questions! You should DEMAND answers!

Jokes aside. Why not make him a "shapeshifter" of sorts, that is actually a Giant, but due to curse or whatever, he can only be a Giant for a short time. Think of it like the Barbarian's rage. When he wants, 2 times per day let's say, he can be a Giant for about half an hour? The time limit should be imposed, and then he reverts back to his little form.

So he has his little form + class and when he goes Giant mode, use the MM's statistics.

[mAc Chaos]

Well, at this point, purely for the fun of the exercise, I want to make a true giant.

I was thinking something like having resistance to damage from creatures below a certain size would be a good start. And the d20 hit die. And having AOE melee attacks. But you're automatically way stronger than a normal level 1 guy.

[Moreplovac]

I am 100% it will snowball and that the other players won't feel as significat as the Giant. Making him quite powerful, while the others are "meh" won't be so much fun for the others. And you can count out dungeon crawling for the Giant, if the rest of the party goes, he will have to stay and watch the whole dungeon crawl. Hence the suggestion before.

[Iguanodon]

Isn't the Goliath race in EE a giant of sorts? Why not just use that and refluff if necessary?

As an aside: Player races should be Medium or smaller, as a rule.

[Slipperychicken]

5th edition D&D does not properly handle letting players play as monsters, and the game breaks down even more when players are size categories other than medium and small. And don't even get me started on the idea of balancing it properly. I'd recommend asking in the roleplaying subforum for game systems which are better at supporting this idea.

[Inevitability]

You tell us 1d20 HD will be 'to weak'. That alone signifies that this class won't be balanced in a normal game.

Instead, how about creating a set of classes based on being an enormous monster? You could have a giant one, a dragon one, perhaps some kind of fiend/celestial... Give everyone huge HP boosts and add some rules on how to calculate appropriate encounters and you're good to go.

[manny2510]

Size: huge
+10 STR
-3 WIS
-3 CHA

You have the benefit of the tavern brawler feat.

FEE FIE FO FUM: Advantage when using survival to track humanoids.

Hill: -3 INT, +4 CON
Fire: Immune to fire damage
Ice: Immune to cold damage
Storm: Immune to thunder and lightning damage
Stone: +2 STR

[Waffle_Iron]

Size: huge
+10 STR
-3 WIS
-3 CHA

You have the benefit of the tavern brawler feat.

FEE FIE FO FUM: Advantage when using survival to track humanoids.

Hill: -3 INT, +4 CON
Fire: Immune to fire damage
Ice: Immune to cold damage
Storm: Immune to thunder and lightning damage
Stone: +2 STR

Also, we need to come up with a list of acceptable names.

I propose "Kanye" be first on the list.

[mAc Chaos]

5th edition D&D does not properly handle letting players play as monsters, and the game breaks down even more when players are size categories other than medium and small. And don't even get me started on the idea of balancing it properly. I'd recommend asking in the roleplaying subforum for game systems which are better at supporting this idea.

What do you mean it breaks down?

One fun thing I noticed is there's lots of RP challenges: just getting food is going to be a huge thing.

[GlenSmash!]

Also, we need to come up with a list of acceptable names.

I propose "Kanye" be first on the list.

Haha! I second this.

[pwykersotz]

What do you mean it breaks down?

One fun thing I noticed is there's lots of RP challenges: just getting food is going to be a huge thing.

It breaks down because it almost necessarily separates the party. How is a player like that going to have meaningful interactions with NPC's, especially ones who are indoors? How are they going to fight along-side their fellows when their fists are practically AoE? Dungeon delving is nixed too. Any discoveries they make will either be human sized and thus inaccessible to the giant, or giant sized and thus inaccessible to the humans.

These things can all be designed around, but it puts a heck of a straitjacket on the game. Now if you wanted to have a Giant, a Dragon, and the Tarrasque go on adventures as a party, that might be easier to work with. Also, now I want to do this.

[mAc Chaos]

It breaks down because it almost necessarily separates the party. How is a player like that going to have meaningful interactions with NPC's, especially ones who are indoors? How are they going to fight along-side their fellows when their fists are practically AoE? Dungeon delving is nixed too. Any discoveries they make will either be human sized and thus inaccessible to the giant, or giant sized and thus inaccessible to the humans.

These things can all be designed around, but it puts a heck of a straitjacket on the game. Now if you wanted to have a Giant, a Dragon, and the Tarrasque go on adventures as a party, that might be easier to work with. Also, now I want to do this.

lool

Yeah in practice it would mean doing a special kind of game where the world is oriented such that Giants aren't as big a deal, or maybe there's even bigger creatures out there like Hawks the size of a mountain. Then you could have stuff like a "dungeon" that's really riding on a giant endless wurm or something.

Or maybe the small party members could ride around on the giant like their own personal mecha.

[RickAllison]

lool

Yeah in practice it would mean doing a special kind of game where the world is oriented such that Giants aren't as big a deal, or maybe there's even bigger creatures out there like Hawks the size of a mountain. Then you could have stuff like a "dungeon" that's really riding on a giant endless wurm or something.

Or maybe the small party members could ride around on the giant like their own personal mecha.

Basically, the issue isn't the player being a giant, the issue is the division between the giant and the rest of the party destroying gameplay interactions. Now, this could easily fly in a game with monster chassis with class levels added on. An example might be letting that player be a Storm Giant, but other players could be a Rakshasa, an Ultroloth, a Beholder, a Nalfeshnee, a Young Red Shadow Dragon or Adult Brass Dragon. Basically, if you want to have a giant character be balanced in any way, the other players are going to also need to be monsters.

[Inevitability]

What do you mean it breaks down?

One fun thing I noticed is there's lots of RP challenges: just getting food is going to be a huge thing.

Pun intended? :smallwink:

[Slipperychicken]

What do you mean it breaks down?

The game system itself assumes player characters are small and medium sized humanoids, and it doesn't make many provisions outside of that. There aren't rules for weapons made for a 100 foot tall person, for example. The rules for running, jumping, and moving are all oriented toward human-sized people. Even for small races, the game assumes they're about as strong as medium, as it doesn't even penalize their encumbrance. Game maps and character abilities almost universally assume that PCs will fit neatly within a 5ft square and have 5 feet of reach, and it's not always clear what happens when that isn't the case. As you mentioned, given the power and resilience expected of a 100 foot tall person, that is quite out of line with how strong PCs are supposed to be in the game, and I don't think there's a good way to reconcile the two.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't want to play as a giant. That's a perfectly fine request for a high fantasy adventure game. What I'm saying is that hacking 5th edition dnd into doing it will be messy and unbalanced, and there are game systems which were actually built with giants in mind (or at least have rules for it). If you want to let your friend play as a giant, you may have a better experience using one of those systems instead.

[mAc Chaos]

That reminds me, do magic items still resize in 5e?

I heard this recently about other editions and it's the first time I've heard of such a concept, as someone new to D&D.

[MadBear]

Seems there are a few ways to go about it, but doing so will still leave the game a bit unbalanced. Some of these abilities would start off immediately and others could be added as he levels.

For starters:

- Being a giant will be both your class and your race.
- +5 strength/Con
- 50 ft movement speed
- The ork ability where if he ever is dropped to 0 he instead drops to 1 hp and can continue
- To represent his strength maybe he permanently suffers from a -5 attack/+5 damage on all attack rolls. (not quite as good as the GWM feat, but still adds significant damage over time)
- He gets 1 attack a round that does 1d12 damage (so with 20 strength at level 1 he'll still hit for 16.5 damage on average), but he'll miss far more often. Add in extra attack at level 5.
- d20 hit dice (maybe lower level represents a junvinille giant and more levels= older/bigger/more experienced)
- No natural armor proficiency so if he wants armor he'll have to take feats to get it.
- No multi-classing (you can't stop being a giant)

This is a start at least at some ideas. RP wise he'll have a hard time interacting with other PC's unless the stories built around him, in which case make sure your other players are ok being the supporting cast of the special snowflake.

[Grod_The_Giant]

- Being a giant will be both your class and your race.
I think something like this is the only way to do it with any semblance of balance. Start with something like Goliath, and then with each "level" of Giant, the character grows bigger and bigger.

[rlc]

Well, at this point, purely for the fun of the exercise, I want to make a true giant.

I was thinking something like having resistance to damage from creatures below a certain size would be a good start. And the d20 hit die. And having AOE melee attacks. But you're automatically way stronger than a normal level 1 guy.
Eh, I'd say go with massive amounts of hp and not the resistance. I mean, papercuts hurt a lot, and you could probably compare a people sized sword to that, especially on your toe.

[Joe the Rat]

- To represent his strength maybe he permanently suffers from a -5 attack/+5 damage on all attack rolls. (not quite as good as the GWM feat, but still adds significant damage over time)
Scaling up adds additional weapon die to your attacks. Regular greatclub: 1d8, Ogre-sized greatclub: 2d8, Hill Giant Greatclub 3d8... presumably Gargantuan would go to 4d8. Get thee a Huge Greataxe.
Seems like Brutal Critical would be another good strengthy thing (and you can't take barbarian...)
Carrying capacity doubles with each up-sizing as well.


- No multi-classing (you can't stop being a giant)"Have you tried not being a giant?"

[Aldarin]

Well, I agree that having a giant--like, an actual giant--is kinda ridiculous.
Let me show you what I mean.
-d20 hit die
-damage reduction equal to level
-starting strength 5 higher than normal
-maximum for strength 30
-higher damage die for weapons

See, this is getting crazy. A giant just does not work as a player character.

[RickAllison]

Well, I agree that having a giant--like, an actual giant--is kinda ridiculous.
Let me show you what I mean.
-d20 hit die
-damage reduction equal to level
-starting strength 5 higher than normal
-maximum for strength 30
-higher damage die for weapons

See, this is getting crazy. A giant just does not work as a player character.

For comparison against regular classes:

1) d20 absolutely trashes the best PC class for health. However, note that giants in the MM are actually only Huge, so he would actually be a d12 which is equal to barbarians.

2) Remember Heavy Armor Master? The feat that seemed kind of pointless long-term because it didn't apply to relevant damage later on and didn't scale? Congratulations, you have already nullified the supposed main disadvantage (being attacked by more people) while giving him even more. Why is this a good idea again?

3) Greater Strength is powerful, but not grotesque on its own.

4) See 3.

5) Triple the damage dice. Rocking the 6d6 for a greatsword already leaves an average damage per attack of 21. Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter, the feats that are being debated as to whether they are overpowered? With max ability and those, GWM gives a regular PC 22 and a little less for sharpshooter. Let's just reiterate this fact: your DPR with 10 in your attack ability is at the level of your DPR-focused martial allies who have maxed their abilities and also spent a feat. Added onto this is the fact that unlike them, your damage would all double on a critical and you should realize how ridiculous this is. Combined with 3 and 4, your DPR becomes 31, but your to-hit has a +10 over the martials doing comparable damage.

To give an underestimated concept of how much of a boost you are giving, you are effectively giving them a free racial feat, which we will call Uber-Weapon Master; instead of giving -5/+10, the giant instead gets +5/+10!

[tieren]

What might be cool is if the whole party wanted to be giants and lived in a giant country.

then you don't have to upscale the characters you downscale the monsters. Maybe they have brown bears running through hamster trails. And groups of 1/10 sized people keeping trying to break in and steal your music box.

Your warlock's familiar could be a gold dragon instead of a pseudodragon etc...

[Alejandro]

What might be cool is if the whole party wanted to be giants and lived in a giant country.

then you don't have to upscale the characters you downscale the monsters. Maybe they have brown bears running through hamster trails. And groups of 1/10 sized people keeping trying to break in and steal your music box.

Your warlock's familiar could be a gold dragon instead of a pseudodragon etc...

Not to go too far down the rabbit hole, but if the party plays all giants, and most of the world exists for their size, then you may as well save yourself a lot of work and play a party of normal races :)

[Steampunkette]

Making a Giant?

...

Well first a Daddy Giant and a Mommy Giant who love each other -very- much...

[tieren]

Not to go too far down the rabbit hole, but if the party plays all giants, and most of the world exists for their size, then you may as well save yourself a lot of work and play a party of normal races :)

That was my point, make your characters the same way you ever would, but maybe there are a lot of tiny things you need to combat against.

Kind of like a campaign against an evil pixie empire or something.

[FightStyles]

I'll actually attempt a true giant race that is far more balanced than anyone has yet given. However, it's still probably crazy unbalanced. But you're the one who wants to make a giant.
1st, he will NOT be able to be 100 ft tall. That doesn't even make sense. However, you'll see he'll still be larger than the average.

Race: Giant

Ability Score Increase. Your Strength score increases by 2.
Age. Giants mature at the same rate as humans. They are considered young until about age of 35. On average, they tend to live to about 600 years.
Alignment. Giants are found to be of any alignment. However, each subrace leans towards a different alignment.
Size. Giants range from about 16 to 26 feet tall and weigh anywhere from 300 up to 900 lbs. Your size is Huge, although you still only take up 5 feet of space.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 40 ft.
Giant Strength. You are proficient in rock throwing. You throw a rock adding your proficiency to the attack. Strength is the ability modifier to the attack and damage. The rock deals 1d8 bludgeoning damage with a range of 60/240 ft.
Giant Combat Training. Although huge, it takes time to correctly use a larger weapon. Therefore, at level 1, your weapon has normal damage die as if a medium creature. At level 10, it increases to that of a large creature. And at 20, it increases to that of a huge creature.
Dragon Grudge. Giants are as old as Dragons, and they have fought each other year after year. Because of this, a Giant will not leave a Dragons sight without a fight. If a Giant sees a Dragon, it must succeed a DC 15 WIS Saving throw or go into a rage and immediately start attacking the Dragon.
Languages. Giants speak, read, and write in both common and Giant.

Subraces:

Cloud:
Ability Score Increase: Your Charisma increases by 1.
Innate Spellcasting: You gain the cantrip Gust and are able to use it at-will. At level 1, you are able to cast Fog Cloud 1/day. At level 5 you are able to cast Gaseous Form with the target being yourself 1/day.
Keen Smell: You gain advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on smell.

Fire:
Ability Score Increase: Your Dexterity Score increases by 1.
Fire Resistance: You gain resistance to Fire damage.
Martial Master: You gain proficiency with simple and martial weapons.

Frost:
Ability Score Increase: Your Strength Score increases by 1.
Cold Resistance: You gain resistance to cold damage
Patchwork Armor: You gain proficiency with Medium and Heavy Armor. You also gain proficiency with Shields.

Hill:
Ability Score Increase: Your Constitution Score increases by 2.
Brute mind: Your Strength Score increases by 1. However, your Intelligence and Wisdom both decrease by 1.
Endless Hunger: You are able to eat rotten meat, decaying plants and even mud. This gives you advantage on saving throws against disease.

Stone:
Ability Score Increase: Your Dexterity Score increases by 1.
Stone Camouflage. The giant has advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks made to hide in rocky terrain.
Rock Catching. If a ranged object is targeting you, you can, with a successful DC 10 Dexterity saving throw, catch the missile and take no damage from it.

Storm:
Ability Score Increase: Your Charisma Score increases by 1.
Lightning Strike: You can hurl a magical lightning bolt at a point it can see within 500 feet of it. Each
creature within 10 feet of that point must make a DC 8+prof.+ Cha mod. Dexterity saving throw, taking 1d6 lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. This damage increases by 1d6 at level 5, 10, 15, and 20.
Amphibious: You can breathe in air or water.

[GlenSmash!]

... If a Giant sees a Dragon, it must succeed a DC 15 Int Saving throw or go into a rage and immediately start attacking the Dragon...

This kind of save is typically a wisdom save. See the Berserker Axe in the DMG.

[FightStyles]

This kind of save is typically a wisdom save. See the Berserker Axe in the DMG.

Yeah, I did that mostly afb. I did have the giant stat blocks though. I was leaning towards wis and will edit.