Another "WHat if D&D Character would appear thread ... or not?

[GrayDeath]

Inspired by the obvious sources, I am going to post a slightly different situation (whom am I kidding, massively different^^).


What if, by a strange happenstance (namely some Epic Level Wizards form of entertainment) a small amount of people were transformed into D&D Characters, you among them?

Setting:

You are, probably with others, in a dangerous situation that might as well kill you, and probably loved ones.
Suddenly time stops and you are offered your choice of D&D Class and, if desired, up to LA+3 Race.
Assuming whoever is with you might or might not be similarly ... blessed, what would be your choice, and why?


Basics:
You use your "Real World" stats+any applicable bonuses (see below), but may reroll up to 3 (using r5k3), with rolling for the stat directly, and no way "back".
Your Level becomes 4. You gain all the normal Feats/Spells/etc of your Class, WBL only applies for magical Gear (including Potions and Scrolls, but no more than 1 per Level of Wizard, and no High Level Spells^^) you are given, and cannot be increased.
You may combine no more than 2 Classes at the Start (no Gestalting!!)
Classes come from PF (3.5 Prestige Classes are still fine, but Fluff requirements apply and cannot be negated), all Sources that are not Homebrew are allowed.
You may combine no more than 3 classes in total.
Aquiring of Templates is fine, but only 2 at most.
You are told that hesheit did it for entertainment, that others are "playing" too, and that you can expect to be ... challenged; enough to in all likeliness level quickly, but that also means you are unlikely to be able to choose/plan/craft/research carefully for a while at least.
If you do not choose one of the Template/supernatural Races you are assumed "Pathfinder Human" and gain all bonuses.

Important:
For this we assume that Magic works normally and Access to all the relevant Gods is suddenly possible (said Wizards have some cool Planechannelling thingamagiggy^^).
However there are no other "original" D&D Beings with Access aside from you (and others) eventually summoning them.



Limits/NoGo`s:
1.: There are no LowLevelWorldbreakers, either because the "Playing wizard" removes the thought for it from your mind, or because they do not work in our World. To truly break anything you have to wait AT LEAST until Planar Binding becomes naturally avaliable.
So no, no CoI Shennanigans. Includes Lucid Dreaming and any and all other Exploits that either build on stupid RAWing or are avaliable before Planar Binding (without shennanigans, see above).


2.: Research for Spells later on is possible, but if you choose Wizard or similar you are limited to the "autospells" and any that feats grant you for the imminent future.

3.: You know that others have been "chosen" as well, but have no Idea of who they are, and any and all Divinations you use to find out autofail (meaning you have to find them in mundane ways).

4.: Retraining is out.


So, what would you choose, and why?
And, even if only vaguely, what are your Levelup-Plans?

[Ruethgar]

Would Lucid Dreaming be removed under the first limitation?

[GrayDeath]

Good catch, yes.

I`ll edit it in (although you cans till use "our mundane Version" of Lucid Dreaming, I often do too, it just doesn`t break anything^^).

[GrayDeath]

A bit too simple.

Race? Rolling or no?
Plans?

I appreciate Detail in both Build and Fluff. :)

Edit: OK. Gonna be in bed soonish anyway so ... go nuts (within limits or the Epic Players will remove you!^^).

[Doctor Despair]

Possibly the most useful template in this situation is the +1 LA Godblooded of Vecna since it erases all knowledge of you from the world. You inherently have an advantage in that sense on the rest of the competition, whether you are trying to kill them or hide from them. On the other hand, I don't know that I could voluntarily submit myself to torture in that fashion and give up all of my facial features, so for me, personally, that is out. I think I'd go for a bardic build, pumping charisma as much as possible as well as spot, and use diplomacy on anyone I see. After all, if divinations fail, then there shouldn't be much opportunity for someone to kill me before I see them -- and with a good charisma and bluff, no one should ever be aware I am one such "blessed" person so long as I don't use magic in public. Let someone else save the world from would-be casters.

[Zephonim]

Good catch, yes.

I`ll edit it in (although you cans till use "our mundane Version" of Lucid Dreaming, I often do too, it just doesn`t break anything^^).

How does lucid dreaming break the game?

[Ruethgar]

How does lucid dreaming break the game?

Well, it is a DC 20 and a grapple check to kill any dreaming creature pretty quickly while they sleep. This means all BBEGs who sleep can be killed with little more effort than a level 1 Expert can muster. Furthermore, you can create infinitely. The ability to alter your dream's flora and architecture means you could for example make a treant with nigh infinite divine rank who is completely devoted to you. Or if you wanted to stay more in control, create transdimensional spell traps in the architecture giving you every spell in the game and a x10 time multiplier to trigger them with. Or lower op, make a perfect library and Autohypnosis it all for a constant +8 to all Knowledge checks.

[Prime32]

Aw... PF classes, but 3.5 Level Adjustments? And lv4 rather than 5? Because Unbodied (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-bestiary/unbodied) would be pretty useful here (presuming you do in fact become corporeal while using Assume Likeness, because the alternative sucks). Incorporeality, disguise, divination shielding, and psionics (harder to detect than spells, at least if you suppress the displays) which you can advance through class levels.

Clerics and druids (and mystic rangers?) are at an advantage here, since they have access to their entire spell list. However, they also come with a lot of baggage.

If you're expecting combat, then monk and unarmed swordsage are useful so that you don't have to worry about drawing attention to yourself by walking around armed to the teeth. Speaking of combat, can you spend your WBL on enchanting a gun? Because DR/magic is the only real reason to use D&D weapons over the modern kind.

Sanctified Creature (LA +2) could be useful - continuous Magic Circle Against Evil (for countering summoners and anyone who uses mind control) and the ability to speak any language, plus eyebeams that hurt evil creatures. Though there's a risk of slipping into "radar paladin" and losing the template.

[Bobby Baratheon]

If 3.5 templates are on the table (and 3.5 warlocks . . . I don't really like PF warlocks), I'd go with lesser cansin for my race, and unseelie fey/magic blooded. For class, I'd go warlock 1/sorcerer 3, and I'd pick up some binding through feats (you can by RAW enter Anima Mage without any actual levels in binder, and by a poorly worded phrase Anima Mage advances you binding despite not having any binder levels to advance). IIRC, that ability score test gave me something like Str 13, Dex 9, Con 13, Wis 10, Int 15, Cha 14, so that combination of templates/race would mostly play to my strengths and help balance my weaknesses.

That should give me a solid mix of spells, invocations and vestiges, and hope that Practiced Spellcaster works with warlocks. If not, I'll try to get into Eldritch Theurge ASAP, and if so I'd prioritize Anima Mage.

None of this is Pathfinder (which I don't know all that well), so if it's not kosher I'll just play a baseline PF sorcerer.

[Amphetryon]

Pathfinder? Sounds like it's time to break out the Dreamscarred Press.

At 4th level:

Maenad Dread 3/Warlord 1, with Warlord being used for the Sweeping and Dastardly Gambits. Maenad gets +2 CHA in this scenario, powering both Classes' main shticks. Ultimately the aim would be Dread 15/Warlord 5.

At 4th level, Dread Power list would be Demoralize, Mindlink, and Untouchable Aura, plus the innate Energy Ray from Race.

Warlord Maneuvers/Stances would be Encouraging Roar, Pride Movement, Tactical Strike, Blade of Breaking, Prince's Attitude, and Red Zephyr's Strike (Golden Lion/Scarlet Throne focus). The Stance would be Scarlet Einhander.

I'd continue to focus all but exclusively on those two martial schools, as they improve my allies and defenses simultaneously, while the Dread levels are making it harder and harder for foes to voluntarily attack me or my friends.

Stat priority CHA>DEX>STR>INT=CON>WIS, if possible. The entire strategy is predicated on having a good CHA to gain allies against those who would do me harm.

My answer may be entirely different tomorrow.

[Ruethgar]

@Prime32 The OP said level 4, but level adjustment alters ECL, not level. So you can have a max ECL of 7 out of the gate by the parameters listed above.

I am not very familiar with PF, but I will give it a go below. Without game-shattering powers, I would honestly probably just go for living quietly in the country, terraforming and gardening. I would hurry to level 6 ASAP and then just stay in human form. I would eventually go and replant the Amazon once I had Rapid Growth.

In combat I would try and get away first and foremost then set up difficult terrain. I would Swift Concentration Enhanced Create Element for Lava and Easy Focus the Weather while Geomancing with Entangle, Fog, and Forge Earth before bombarding them with breath weapons, a few Scorching Rays, Thundering Blasts, and Thunderheads while the lightning strikes from the weather.

At a mere level 4 to get out of whatever predicament I and my loved ones might be in without knowing what it is would be a difficult thing to do, but a judicious application of the Enhanced Create Element would stop some things like a car accident, gunfire, or assailants not yet upon us. It would take a few rounds to pull off, but transforming into a dragon would end a lot of IRL combats pretty quick weather or not I was that powerful. If I were against another enhanced right out of the gate, Scorching Ray to the face and surround them with lava.

White Dragonspawn Abomination Kobold: Day Raider, Dragon Affinity, Gliding Wings
Verdant Sphere Sorcerer: 4

Tradition: Double Somatic, Verbal, Skilled Casting(Perform), Focus Casting, Magical Signs, Easy Focus, Lycanthropic, Beast Soul, Personal Magics, Bodily Enhancement, Energy Focus
Spells:
0:Create Element, Thunderhead, Nurturing Seeds, Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, Mending
1: Wood Wose, Thunderhead, Entangle, Animal Friendship
2: Scorching Ray, Rope Trick
Talents: 15 SP

Weather: Severe Weather, Storm Lord
Nautre(Plant): Grow Plants
Enhancment: Physical Enhancement, Deep Enhancement
Alteration: Avian Transformation, Dragon Transformation
Destruction: Thundering Blast

Abilities:

Str: 4
Dex: 14
Con: 11
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 16

Feats:

Trait: Lair Snake
Flaw: Murky Eyed: Spellcrafting
Flaw: Non-Combatant: Craft Spellbook
First: Extra Talent
Third: Draconic Reservoir

Other: Endless, Dragonscale Husk, Loredrake, Draconic Rite(Enhanced Create Element:CL?*constant depending on element Water:5x5x2ft, Stone:2cu ft, Earth: 2ft cu, Air:10ft cu, Grass:5ft sq)Side Effects(Nurturing Seeds: Grass Growth, Thunderhead: Rain, Mending: Healing, Create Element: Gems, Detect Magic: Detect Thoughts)

Leveling
Class: Sorcerer 20
Spells: Arcane Mark, Plant Growth
Talents:In Order
Storm Lord, Rebuff, Earth, Forge Earth, Water, Create Water, Wave, Wind Lord, Rain Lord, Greater Size, Climate, Lengthened Weather, Rapid Growth, Towering Growth, Earthquake, Greater Weather
Feats: 6:Alternate Form, 7: Nimble Moves, 9:Landlord, 12:Non-Epic Demigod Destiny, 13: Acrobatic Steps, 19: Craft Staff
Reroll Cha, Wis and Con(pictured bellow). Roll for Abomination pictured bellow.
https://photos-5.dropbox.com/t/2/AAB_Ik1WKHz9mBi4ZblRaLvAF4CP9mQykKQh1jw8HKTR-Q/12/18404993/png/32x32/3/1459238400/0/2/Untitled.png/ENO62w0Y1rECIAcoBw/p60xdavvKtC_UdpsdSkXmn2xuut_o3SD0Ic8Xf13eXw?size_m ode=3&size=1600x1200

https://photos-5.dropbox.com/t/2/AABYTVRDmhokuczOWatTJzkNkAwMOcObHcOq7maekmwCmQ/12/18404993/png/32x32/3/1459238400/0/2/Stats.png/ENO62w0Y1rECIAcoBw/zCp6F7heaQVKPgPD0qSy8B_VOCZAGjtoXH78oWJxjRE?size_m ode=3&size=1600x1200

[PraxisVetli]

This is literally the setting of my campaign.

[Bohandas]

Wizard. Would use the spells just to increase my own comfort at home and to make some quick cash

[Manyasone]

Right. With a bit more info this time. Deleted my previous post by accident.
I'd stay human, would be strange what with the wife and kids. +2 to CHA. Steelfist commando archetype for Warlord. cha>dex>con>int >wis>str. Probably would go full unarmed considering free improved and greater unarmed strike. Featwise weapon finesse, deadly agility and broken blade style. Skillwise stealth, acrobatics, autohypnosis maxed. Stances would be Sands of time and iron hand. Maneuvers flurry strike/shards of iron strike, sting of the rattler/dizzying venom prana, offensive roll, minute hand, stopwatch and leg sweeping hilt. I used to be military IRL, with power like a commando I'd try special agent for the government. As I become stronger I'd focus solely on broken blade and riven hourglass. And I would opt with the Uber entity that made this happen for unchained automatic bonus progression. Probably would use my skill to save people from terror what with the madness this day and age...

[Prime32]

Wizards and sorcerers should probably consider Eschew Materials, since there are a lot of spells with weird components that are a lot harder to find (if not impossible to find) on modern-day Earth. Even if you can purchase them, other "players" might be able to use that to track you down.

What happens if I take the Apprentice feat from DMG2, which grants benefits centred around your relationship with an lv6+ mentor? Does a mentor spring into being? Does one of my existing "mentors" get empowered to a lv6 D&D character? Or does the feat just fail to work?
If it works then you have immediate access to a loyal and powerful ally, long before the other players start to find each other. It's especially useful if you're both wizards with different spells in your spellbooks.

[Tiri]

up to LA+3 Race.

Does that mean we get the LA for free, or is it included in our levels?

[Ruethgar]

Does that mean we get the LA for free, or is it included in our levels?

LA don't count as levels, only ECL, so by the RAW of the OP it wouldn't count against your initial level meaning you can start ECL 7, however it would still function as LA for leveling purposes.

[GrayDeath]

This is literally the setting of my campaign.

Well its not that farfetched that 2 people should think of the same thing. I am thinking about doing that campaign later in the year and fishing for Ideas here ^^




LA don't count as levels, only ECL, so by the RAW of the OP it wouldn't count against your initial level meaning you can start ECL 7, however it would still function as LA for leveling purposes.

That.


Also: had a horrible week of work and then simply forgot about the thread. No longer!
Make more posts! :xykon:

[ExLibrisMortis]

Well, with three rerolls, I'm fairly sure that ability scores won't be a problem. Int/con/dex will work fine for a caster, and if my natural int happens to be sufficient (I think it is, but what do I know?), I can reroll something extra.

It's not technically a template, but could you be a steel dragon wyrmling? It's within the ECL range, and they can take the form of humans, so who knows...?

Unbodied would be pretty cool, but that's ECL 8, not 7. Damn.

So I guess it's either psionic artificer or StP erudite, depending on transparency rules. Psionic artificer rules are a bit wonky and unsupported, so I'd rather not take it if full transparency is not in effect.

[GrayDeath]

Well if its HD+LA fit into the "Max level 4 with max LA 3" then why not?

Becoming a Dragon sure would feel ... interesting I think. ^^

As for Artificers: expect the Problemm of time.
If you want to risk being a class that needs time, time and TIME in a potentially NOW deadly situation, and in a Game made by Wizards "for the lulz", then by all means ;)

[Azoth]

Well since this is Pathfinder, I would have to go with the Azlanti Pureblood for race. Nothing like being a human with a +2 to all stats for 0LA, and still getting the extra feat and skill points.

If the LA is going to affect me then Advanced and Young to cancel each other out for CR increase and grant +8 Dex, +4 Int/Wis/Cha. Total Racials would be +2Str, +10 Dex, +2 Con, +6 Int/Wis/Cha.

If this trick works, taking Equipment Trick (Sunrod) to use the option Like the Sun to heighten spells with the light descriptor up to second level. I would go Wizard Diviner(Foresight)2/Cleric1(feather/trickery domains)/Mystic Theurge1.

Full build would probably be Wizard2/Cleric1/Mystic Theurge2/Evangelist10(keyed to Mystic The urge)/Mystic Theurge+5.

[GrayDeath]

It does not.

Honestly people, can barely anyone here make a race/CLass Combo WITHOUT strange cheesy RAWish interpretations that might get approved by a GM every other blue moon?

How in the hecks are you even supposed advanced of age AND young at the same time?



Now even if its merely implicated in the opening post: No REAL Cheese is allowed. No" but it COULD read that way" stuff, no" it never says anywhere its not allowed" and such.
The Gamers are instakilling anyone attempting that stuff as quickly as thoughts of CoI Abuse. ^^


Go for something "realistic" (bad word, best approximate meaning, sadly), what you`d like.
This is NOT a "How to maximize Power with Cheese/Optimization" exercise.


As for the specific example: I dont get where you get your icnreased Attributes for young/Advanced any way, but if you want to be a member of a boring Human offshoot from another planet 8whicha re blatantly semiextinct)...^^

[Madara]

My only good stat would probably be charisma, so I'd do the bloodrite of vol to get Cha to hp. I'm too lazy to study like a wizard, so I'd probably be a warlock and get shatter/ the sniping blast shape. Don't really care for many of the templates, but I'd probably need one to keep up with the others. I'd also take some ques from the commoner's handbook and pickup psionic minor creation for the practicality.

[Necromancy]

*casts thread necromancy*

[Azoth]

It does not.

Honestly people, can barely anyone here make a race/CLass Combo WITHOUT strange cheesy RAWish interpretations that might get approved by a GM every other blue moon?

How in the hecks are you even supposed advanced of age AND young at the same time?



Now even if its merely implicated in the opening post: No REAL Cheese is allowed. No" but it COULD read that way" stuff, no" it never says anywhere its not allowed" and such.
The Gamers are instakilling anyone attempting that stuff as quickly as thoughts of CoI Abuse. ^^


Go for something "realistic" (bad word, best approximate meaning, sadly), what you`d like.
This is NOT a "How to maximize Power with Cheese/Optimization" exercise.


As for the specific example: I dont get where you get your icnreased Attributes for young/Advanced any way, but if you want to be a member of a boring Human offshoot from another planet 8whicha re blatantly semiextinct)...^^

Young is age related, Advanced is not. Advanced are just superior specimens of a given species. The racial selection is basically a teenager that is a near pinnacle example of what the species is capable of. Considering that the idea is to fight creatures/challenges far beyond what a normal real world person could even imagine encountering in our wildest myths it isn't that far fetched. No worse really than any story/comic/anime/legend character.

As far as the being allowed, I have played this character with the Time Seer template as well up to level 15 before the character was retired to try and attempt the Star Stone challenge to gain enough power to resurrect the old Azlanti gods that died protecting Azlant from the Earth fall.

I tend to play at some high powered tables where getting dual 9ths and having save DCs in the low 40's isn't seen as OP.

Now, since that one is an issue for you to deal with...

Something a bit more low op and "fun"...

Human Harbinger 4 Focusing on Shattered Mirror and Riven Hourglass with a smattering of Veiled Moon.

[PraxisVetli]

I unfortunately no nothing of PF.
If 3.5, Elan Warblade/STP Erudite, eventually into Swiftblade.
So whatever the PF version of that would be. I imagine I'd trade Warblade out for Warder, that's all I know.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Well if its HD+LA fit into the "Max level 4 with max LA 3" then why not?

Becoming a Dragon sure would feel ... interesting I think. ^^

As for Artificers: expect the Problemm of time.
If you want to risk being a class that needs time, time and TIME in a potentially NOW deadly situation, and in a Game made by Wizards "for the lulz", then by all means ;)
Cool! Steel dragon wyrmlings are 3 RHD/2 LA. Can you say true dragon cheese :smallbiggrin:. Loredrake, spellhoarding, a single level in eidetic wizard (no spellbook!), all set (might take some LA +1 template). I would rather take a psionic conversion of the same, but that'd be homebrew (seriously, there are not enough psionic dragon tricks, why do they always have to be arcane?).

For the artificer, I point you to this excellent guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?427628-Disregard-Money-Acquire-Buff-Spells-Artificers-without-the-Artifice), on non-crafting artificers. Besides, I don't expect that I'll never have time to craft, and when you do, it's really useful.

[GrayDeath]

Correct, IF you survive the here and now, and say the next hurried 4-5 levels.....muhahaharrr...

And yes, noncrafting Artificers CAN be good ... but its main Shtick is crafting/Infusing/etc.

Still interesting concepts.

Thanks.

[Conradine]

Elan, Psionic Fighter 4.

Tough, skilled and versatile enough to survive most lethal situations ( lethal for a common human ). I would be able to use power points to negate generic damage as last resource.

And then, when out of danger, eternal life. Sounds sweet.

[GrayDeath]

It does.

Any plans on what way to continue after surviving the imminent "lolz for funz" and hence levelling, process?




I myself would probably try tog et a half Dragon Template (a better one like the one granted by DD or somesuch at least) as I am also a sucker for dragons.

Or something similar, then go for a massively versatile Class.
Maybe Factotum, maybe`, or even a Warlock (though in that case I`d argue for Homebrewed upgrades....^^).

I would very likely reroll my Dex and Con, after seeing my stats maybe strength, maybe Wisdom next.
Unless I`d go for a Chabased Class.
Decisions, decisions.

Still, please keep ideas coming!

[Doc_Maynot]

I would have to go Aegis 3/Soulknife 1, rerolling my str, dex, and con. Ask anyone that knows me in person, I'm pretty sickly.

But I take that both on the power factor and the cool factor of being able to think up tools (Either through mind blade or Call the Soul's Blade via Sleeping Goddess) and other equipment at will.

[tadkins]

Honestly people, can barely anyone here make a race/CLass Combo WITHOUT strange cheesy RAWish interpretations that might get approved by a GM every other blue moon?


I'd probably just go with a standard human wizard with practicality in mind. Conjurer with Abrupt Jaunt ACF. Eschew Materials would be one of my first feats.

Goal would to just be play it safe until I can grow stronger and more comfortable with my power. Being able to summon bodyguards and escape when things get hairy is probably a good start for that.

[Vizzerdrix]

Huh. Only pf class Im slightly familiar with is witch. I guess I would try to use that to get into mage of the arcane order. Ideally, I would find other casters to join me in motao as well.

I would want the class alternative to prep spells from a deck of cards.

I would take the rerolls. Con, Int and Wis would get a boost.

Then, I would take obtain familiar, and extra familiar three times. I might need celestial or improved familiar as well. My goal is to get all 4 of my ferrets (2 currently living, 2 passed away) as my familiars and preferably as mustival guardinals. That would be an alarming amount of lay on hands and magic missiles. If I cant revive the 2 dead ferrets, they will me spellstitched.

No idea what race or templates I would bother with. I can only find 1 with fast healing so I would have to go for the biggest stat boosts I guess.

[Quertus]

What if, by a strange happenstance (namely some Epic Level Wizards form of entertainment) a small amount of people were transformed into D&D Characters, you among them?

On first glance (and a lot of misreading), I heard loved ones threatened, fluff prestige classes, and instinctively went crusader / devoted defender.

On a more careful read through, I'm guessing "3.5 Prestige Classes are still fine, but Fluff requirements apply and cannot be negated" means that you still need to meet the prereqs, and that they can't be refluffed. :smallfrown: Well, in this case, I guess that's a good thing, so I don't get stuck with that prestige class. :smallwink:

Given the amount of info dump, I'm guessing these wizards are around to be questioned. I'm also going with the idea that we have access to our "character sheet".

Despite my many intellectual accomplishments perfect 800 on math SATs / 1440 total, published my own math theory, etc, online sources say that my wisdom is my highest stat. :smallconfused: Sure, let's pretend that's true, too.

I would explain to the wizards that I don't know pathfinder, and would ask if they could explain to me pathfinder alternatives to my preferences. I don't usually like much discussion in creating my characters; I'd make an exception for character creation: me.

I (selfishly) like the idea of Elan immortality, and getting a new body to go along with it. Although there's probably a smarter way of accomplishing this. And troll blooded - gotta keep the new body pristine. In the other thread, I went with crusader for my first level for survivability; if my loved ones might be injured, I'm probably still going with a level of crusader here, too, for the infinite free healing.

In the other thread, people went cleric, to sell their healing. This sounded like a good way to get the world to notice us, and decide to kill / exploit / experiment on us. If the wizards have / will put up an epic dwoemer to somewhat protect us from the real world, that'd be cool; otherwise, I'm running in paranoid mode. Given that "you can expect to be ... challenged; enough to in all likeliness level quickly" and "However there are no other "original" D&D Beings with Access aside from you (and others) eventually summoning them", I take it to mean that the plan is that we will be threatened by things from this world? Sounds like, if anything, the wizards want the reverse, or at least we have a "may you live in interesting times" curse. I'm also not telling out the possibility of PvP / tournament.

For the start rerolls, if the dice hate me (say I roll straight 1s), could I reroll con, then reroll con, then reroll con? Or do I have to pick my rerolls in advance?

Because I'm living it rather than playing a game that will end, I play for the long game, the level 1,200 long game, the "maybe I should research an epic spell to rekindle the sun soon" long game, so a bit of delay is fine. My first thought was to fill the rest of my levels with arcane spellcaster and tainted sorcerer, for free castings of true resurrection. But if I don't have access to my sheet, keeping track of taint would be hard. And most people think of the class as cheese. And, IIRC, I can ignore material components at epic, which, unlike in the other thread, didn't appear to be ruled out. So... skip that.

And my plan is to make me pretty irrelevant anyway. I have friends with training and big guns, who I'm sure would love to help, even before offers of trying to empower them, too. Go social minionmancy! And, if any of my friends / family did "level up" already, bonus, add them to the party for mutual protection.

I'm not horrible with a gun myself - I'd consider my IRL skills to be above those relying strictly on 4 levels of BAB, if it came down to it.

So, since I'm not immune to disease, and have minions to care for, this pushes a direction I was considering anyway. So I'd look to utilize my (don't laugh) high wisdom to get even more healing, and the ability to control undead - which aren't really native to these parts. :smallfrown: and utilizing turning for dmm persist is considered cheese.

Biggest problem is choosing a patron (or two - I've never read anything that said both sides of crusader clerics had to be powered by the same source. If I can get a deity from my gaming experience, or a real world deity who wasn't published in 3e, that expands my options considerably. Otherwise, I'll just believe in a concept until I can locate an appropriate patron.

For my wealth, there are a lot of cool options. Necklace of prayer beads is always nice. Magic weaponry perhaps? Bag of tricks is fun. Something to boost my useless turning? Burnt out ioun stone with sense-shifted continual flame? Something cheap in D&D, but extremely valuable here?

No, one word: slaves.

Not for that reason. Or that one, either. Probably not for that or that, either. I mean, those are all good ideas, but that's not why I went there.

Undead aren't native to this world. How am I supposed to get undead minions to command? Make them? Then people can track onyx. No, I'll start with them, until I can make them without components.

Also, I'd love to have a dragon mount. Or a hydra. Not sure if that's quite affordable at 5k, though.

One of my characters was, at first level, at least as good a tactician as I am. Last I played him, he was significantly better. So, take a copy of him, level drain him back to first level, have the clerics of D&D (yes, he encountered such a group :smalleek:) mind rape him into believing that his duty is to obey his player, and he'd make the perfect slave advisor.

Do various shenanigans come online when their non-shenanigans counterparts do?

Can I use lucid dreaming to mediate for sculpt self?

As to race... even though it is possibly sub optimal for a full caster, +3 LA is hard to pass up. Especially when you know that something is making your life dangerous. With a need to protect my loved ones, I'd probably augment my combat ability and survivability the best way I know how: half golem. In case I fail my save, I'd ask the wizards to set my owner as my loved ones, and I'd include a message to them (including the rules of the game) as part of my WBL. If I lose my sentience to protect the ones I love, well, I'd die for them, so I guess it's not that much difference.

If the rules were different, and I never had to worry about loved ones... I'd probably consider going dark petal, for flight, stealth, and good stats.

Some of my first pass was, "stuff I want", some of it was, "stuff I think would help save my loved ones", some of it was just me thinking out loud.

The hydra / dragon mount is something I've always wanted (in a game - not so sure about IRL), that would also be really good for saving my loved ones right now. If we level super fast, maybe I'd be to the point of "god mode" before the disadvantages of having a monster in the real world made me regret my choice. Maybe.

I fear RAW gives penalties for new forms. I personally think those penalties are unrealistic... In that they are inadequate. Awkward teens, doing things with vs without glasses, even compensating for an injury pales next to suddenly having a whole new body. Unless our new forms magically count as trained, I for one wouldn't trust myself to pilot it well. Happily, even if it counts as an untrained form, my plan is to get others to fight for me.

Half-golem giving a -6 penalty to int (or straight up making me mindless on a failed save) made me look for leadership-like abilities, and is why I finally settled on getting a tactician "slave". And, as a fun role reversal, if I failed my (W15) save, I'd want him added to my list, alongside my loved ones. Yes, I likely would call my slave "master".

I've been reading mortal peril as "combat". If that isn't the case, that could easily change my response - and maybe make the dark petal viable.

Given the same encounters, I'd level my casing much faster if I didn't have the +3 LA. Like the idea of the hydra, it's short term gain, long term loss.

As the dark petal build, I hopefully wouldn't mind the LA to much, as I should easily earn full individual xp for each challenge simply by avoiding it. Obviously, my first picks for items in that build are elven cloak and boots.



Wow, this is already quite long. :smallredface: Maybe I'll post more later.

[ExLibrisMortis]

And troll blooded - gotta keep the new body pristine.
Just want to point out that Troll-Blooded won't work, because it's a regional feat, and you're not from Oerth (I think).

[Quertus]

Just want to point out that Troll-Blooded won't work, because it's a regional feat, and you're not from Oerth (I think).

I 100% pretend to be from planet Earth. I'm just pre-apocalyptic Oerth, where we still know what technology is, instead of treating it as artifacts.

So, yes, I qualify. :smallwink:

Besides, "new body". Not sure how that interacts with regional feats...

EDIT: what I meant was, people from Oerth are from Earth. So long as you don't believe I'm actually an alien, then you shouldn't doubt that I qualify as being from Oerth.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I 100% pretend to be from planet Earth. I'm just pre-apocalyptic Oerth, where we still know what technology is, instead of treating it as artifacts.

So, yes, I qualify. :smallwink:

Besides, "new body". Not sure how that interacts with regional feats...
The OP says you use your 'real world stats', but then again you get to pick a race with up to 3 LA, so I suppose a berserker lodge half-dragon elan would count as 'from Oerth', but then again fluff requirements are enforced, so you'd really have to be from a berserker lodge. It can go either way. Troll-blooded is a good pick if it's an option, but it's definitely something you need to ask those wizards.

[Quertus]

The OP says you use your 'real world stats', but then again you get to pick a race with up to 3 LA, so I suppose a berserker lodge half-dragon elan would count as 'from Oerth', but then again fluff requirements are enforced, so you'd really have to be from a berserker lodge. It can go either way. Troll-blooded is a good pick if it's an option, but it's definitely something you need to ask those wizards.

Half golem :smallwink:

And... I'm not sure I got the logic right. Being from Oerth makes you from Earth; I'm not sure being from Earth necessarily guarantees you are from Oerth. It's a little subtle on the bells and whistles.

But I see no reason my new body couldn't come from Oerth. After all, if I had picked an outsider race, it would have come from another plane anyway.

Oh, and another item for us oddball races to prioritize: a hat of disguise. In the original post, I was definitely planning on being "sick" until I could sculpt self a hat of disguise. At least in this thread I could start with one.

[GrayDeath]

Well, its a regional feat that does not yet exist.

So unless you can argue with the Epic (and epicly intelli9gent AND out for fun^^) Wizards why they should allow that, in less than 12 seconds, its out. ^^


Overall I liked your respose, just let me clarify some things:

Mortal peril means exaclty that. You are in a situation that directly threatens your life within at most minutes.

This can mean Combat, Falling Rocks, Radioactivity, Suicide Bombers, Plane Crashes, whatever.

The Wizards are fair enough to not put you in a situation where you have NO chance of survival to start off, but in o way do they feel that thesy have to adapt ptherwise.

So while one concept might ignore the problem the other might die. (falling from a plane without prepared spells in an elan Body vs. doing the same as wingeds Half Dragon Darbarian with stats to fly a whole day).

The idea behind the time restraint, instant danger and stuff is to make something other than "powerMaxxed Arcane Caster" a very viable option.


As for the outer Powers: well, all dangers this world has to offer + Challenges the Wizards post + your fellow D&Disized FormerHumans.
But no Devils, Demons, Elementals and such suddenly becoming a thing.

[Azoth]

You do realize that by making it completely random challenges with no warning whatsoever, you only push people further towards making the strongest caster arcane/divine/psionic they can as fast as they can right?

It is the only way to be able to reasonably protect yourself from a wide variety of situations simultaneously. This holds even more true since we know that there is no time to acquire or manufactur items to help us out.

We are to have some chance of survival no matter how slim, but given people's predisposition to react to situations in extremes, it is highly likely that someone won't see the solution that let's them live if their resources are limited. It may be easily solved by the person who put us in the situation given our abilities, but we may never see it. Seriously, think how often players miss clues that are obvious to you when you DM...

You want people to not pick Tier 1/2 builds, and to not overly optimize. You then follow it up with "Be ready to handle a plane crash, a fight, radioactivity, or any other random thing without warning and in rapid succession." Do you not see the disconnect there?

[Quertus]

Well, its a regional feat that does not yet exist.

So unless you can argue with the Epic (and epicly intelli9gent AND out for fun^^) Wizards why they should allow that, in less than 12 seconds, its out. ^^

... "Because me falling from this plane and going splat is much less entertaining than me falling from this plane, going splat, and then my pieces forming back together?" Because time travel / temporal shenanigans are cool?

Exactly what I would say would depend on what scenario I was in at the time. As would what I would want to be, in order to protect my loved ones, actually...


Overall I liked your respose, just let me clarify some things:

:smallbiggrin:


Mortal peril means exaclty that. You are in a situation that directly threatens your life within at most minutes.

This can mean Combat, Falling Rocks, Radioactivity, Suicide Bombers, Plane Crashes, whatever.


The idea behind the time restraint, instant danger and stuff is to make something other than "powerMaxxed Arcane Caster" a very viable option.

As for the outer Powers: well, all dangers this world has to offer + Challenges the Wizards post + your fellow D&Disized FormerHumans.
But no Devils, Demons, Elementals and such suddenly becoming a thing.


You do realize that by making it completely random challenges with no warning whatsoever, you only push people further towards making the strongest caster arcane/divine/psionic they can as fast as they can right?

It is the only way to be able to reasonably protect yourself from a wide variety of situations simultaneously. This holds even more true since we know that there is no time to acquire or manufactur items to help us out.

We are to have some chance of survival no matter how slim, but given people's predisposition to react to situations in extremes, it is highly likely that someone won't see the solution that let's them live if their resources are limited. It may be easily solved by the person who put us in the situation given our abilities, but we may never see it. Seriously, think how often players miss clues that are obvious to you when you DM...

You want people to not pick Tier 1/2 builds, and to not overly optimize. You then follow it up with "Be ready to handle a plane crash, a fight, radioactivity, or any other random thing without warning and in rapid succession." Do you not see the disconnect there?

So... I'd be willing to risk becoming a mindless robot to protect my loved ones. But unless my initial peril was combat (and, given the above clarification, maybe even if it was), it sounds like my response would be, "**** these challenges, **** the PvP, I'm going dark petal Arcane Spellcaster."

I'll earn full xp for avoiding all the challenges. I'll avoid the trap of anything not a full caster in a low-magic campaign. I'll win entertainment factor by coming up with ways to prank the PvP crowd. I can learn spells to overcome ability damage from radiation, poison, disease, etc. I'll learn true resurrection and teleport through time as needed. Obviously I'll learn mind rape.

And I'll eventually be the wizard travelling back in time, turning everyone into D&D characters. :smalltongue:

If these wizards really want to encourage something other than full casters... They should probably start by automatically providing at least double WBL as we level, because martial characters are much more dependent on gear than full casters.

[Necromancy]

People in these threads overlook a lot of drawbacks to classes that translate a little differently in real life. I have some personal thoughts on the basic classes

Wizards .....you seem great on paper but consider that you'll spend the rest of your life studying like you're prepping for your dissertation in physics

Clerics/Druids ....you need to look up the meaning of devout. It's not all free love and game breaking spells without a lifetime of prayer and sacrifice

Sorcerers.... Enjoy your free spells! Hope you have the right ones.

Barbarians .... Drink beer, smash bad guys, smash wenches, get torn up a lot due to loincloth armor

Fighters ... armor is heavy! Martial prowess is hard labor. Maybe if you are one of the masochists that goes to the gym and doesn't even post about it on facebook

Rangers ... One of the more reasonable choices, this class identifies with more modern day people directly than any other. You won't be breaking the world but you won't have a bad time either

Rogues .... Less common than ranger I expect, but not a bad choice either

Bards .... Learning to play freebird on a ukulele will serve you well here. Bards have an easy time of it

Monk.... And you thought fighter was hard work

Paladin..... Hahahahaaaa .. Oh you're serious?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Wizards .....you seem great on paper but consider that you'll spend the rest of your life studying like you're prepping for your dissertation in physics
This is why wizards (and erudites, psions, maybe artificers) are the #1 best class ever. It is not a downside.

[GrayDeath]

People in these threads overlook a lot of drawbacks to classes that translate a little differently in real life. I have some personal thoughts on the basic classes

Wizards .....you seem great on paper but consider that you'll spend the rest of your life studying like you're prepping for your dissertation in physics

Clerics/Druids ....you need to look up the meaning of devout. It's not all free love and game breaking spells without a lifetime of prayer and sacrifice

Sorcerers.... Enjoy your free spells! Hope you have the right ones.


This.

I did not think it needed saying, but OK, I will elaborate:

You have NO Forewarning whatsoever regarding the Danger imminent right after "Character Generation" and due to the Nature of "Fun Games for Epic level Douches" very little forewarning and close to NO prep time in later ones.

So why in all the 17 Universes would anybody still think prepared Casters are the Solution?

YOu.
Cannot.
Prepare.
Ahead.
Of.
TIme.
If.
YOu.
Dont.
Have.
The.
Time.
Or.
Information.



Got it now?

Yes, a properly prepared Wizard/Erudite WILL overcome almost anything easily.

Which is why its no fun to allow them to prepare, cause if you think of it, believe me, Epic level Permanent Intelligence 50+ Wizards have thought of it, dissected it, planned 12 Dozen Contingencies against it, and then laughed. :P


So, although I did not want to spell it out, let me say it clearly:

You will not "Win" by having the best optimized Character unless you survive long enough for you to become truly viable.
Which is really hard for a lone L4 Wizard with only the spells he gets by levelling up, if he has no clue as to what is coming his way.

Its a bit easier for Clerics, but remember, the devout life is REAL then, and hence not for every munchkin.


Now that thats said I am hoping for better alternatives/Idead/Concepts than "become the most OP RAW.eligible Mosnrosity by using 5 Classes and 3 Cheesy exploits".

Please? :sabine:

[Quertus]

People in these threads overlook a lot of drawbacks to classes that translate a little differently in real life. I have some personal thoughts on the basic classes

Wizards .....you seem great on paper but consider that you'll spend the rest of your life studying like you're prepping for your dissertation in physics

Clerics/Druids ....you need to look up the meaning of devout. It's not all free love and game breaking spells without a lifetime of prayer and sacrifice

Sorcerers.... Enjoy your free spells! Hope you have the right ones.

Barbarians .... Drink beer, smash bad guys, smash wenches, get torn up a lot due to loincloth armor

Fighters ... armor is heavy! Martial prowess is hard labor. Maybe if you are one of the masochists that goes to the gym and doesn't even post about it on facebook

Rangers ... One of the more reasonable choices, this class identifies with more modern day people directly than any other. You won't be breaking the world but you won't have a bad time either

Rogues .... Less common than ranger I expect, but not a bad choice either

Bards .... Learning to play freebird on a ukulele will serve you well here. Bards have an easy time of it

Monk.... And you thought fighter was hard work

Paladin..... Hahahahaaaa .. Oh you're serious?

Well, because our characters (or, in this case, our selves) improve by xp, not by training, all the training is oddly unnecessary. :smallannoyed:

However, ignoring that small detail for a minute... I have no problem with the description of the life of the wizard - or the cleric, for the right deity.

To be fair, though, bards and rogues have to learn bloody everything, and make even wizards look like slackers; psions need to be dusted, just like some monks; barbarians get to appear in "but I never learned how to read" commercials; and the ranger / druid has the issue that their usual date has four (or more!) legs. I'm not sure wizards look so bad by comparison.

But I'll still take Arcane Spellcaster, thanks, because, like sorcerers, they don't really need to do anything to get better.

[Necromancy]

Keep in mind that there's no 15 minute adventuring day either.

Also, picking a class does not mean you will actually excel in it. People tend to overestimate their own stats a bit or believe a reroll will be helpful.

[Quertus]

Keep in mind that there's no 15 minute adventuring day either.

Also, picking a class does not mean you will actually excel in it. People tend to overestimate their own stats a bit or believe a reroll will be helpful.

15 minute adventuring day? Of course not. Don't be silly. Until I get more spell points, I'm adventuring 2 minutes a day, tops! :smalltongue: After that, I'm taking my NI hide score and saying :smalltongue::smalltongue::smalltongue:

If anything, I'd say that the online test I took underestimated my stats, and I rolled 0 6's on 15 dice for my rerolls. But, thanks to the modifiers from being a Petal, I think it still turned out ok. EDIT: using the stats generated by the online test the OP recommended.

I'm guessing my hide score would be... 7(ranks) + 8(dex) + 8(size) + 8(race) + 10(cloak) + 2(me*) = +43 bonus :smallbiggrin:

Move silently would probably only be 0(ranks) + 8(dex) + 8(size) + 6(race) + 10(boots) + 0(me*) = +32 bonus.

Actually, retrieving components from the lairs of dangerous animals, for the components and for the xp, as many times a day as possible, probably wouldn't be a bad idea, at least until I levelled enough that they could no longer provide me with xp.

Me :smallcool:
Dark (0+1) Petal (0+2) Arcane Spellcaster 4
... True Neutral?
Str 45
Dex 26
Con 1617
Int 1820
Wis 1412
Chr 2324
Fort 7, Ref 9, Will 2
AC 18, 25 HP
Att +10, dmg 1d2-3
Abilities: Hide in Plain Sight, C R10, DR 10/Fe, DV 60", SLLV, Mv 25, Fly 70 (per)
Spellcasting: 18 Spell Points, ???, ???, ???; ???
Feats: Eschew Materials, Sculpt Self, ????, ????, ????
Flaws: (lots from me, plus) Vulnerable, ???
Skills: Hide 7(43), Move Silently 0(32), Lucid Dreaming 7(11), Bluff 7(14), Diplomacy 7(16), Spellcraft 7(14), Autohypnosis 7(12), concentration 0(3), Knowledge(lots) 7(12), Sense Motive 7(8), Sleight of Hand 7(15)
Gear: Cloak of Elvenkind, Boots of Elvenkind, Resin Petal Dagger (x3), small moon of free quarterstaves, Petal bow, Petal arrows (x100), spell component pouch, illithid day suit, shades, D&D books, chachka
Other: maug bodyguard, slaves.

This is obviously a work in progress. The skills section is just a wish list; I'm not sure which ones I'd most want to have. (want? Autohypnosis. I've always wanted a good memory) I think I'd be better off with a 3rd Eye of Concentration than my elven boots, but the appeal of owning a single comfortable pair of magical shoes that will never wear out is difficult to argue with.

For spells... my long term goal is to be able to resurrect any of my loved ones who die. Ok, my long, long term goal is immortality, alongside my loved ones, including epic spells to rekindle the sun, etc, etc.

For the shorter term... as I understand spell research, sorcerers can just make up custom spells as they level; Arcane Spellcasters should be able to do the same thing. So, while there are some really nice spells out there, most If not all of my spells will probably be custom spells, or at least variants on existing spells.

Tactics: my spells will likely, at least initially, revolve around things like resurgence and wield skill - "healing", and making me better at what I do. Because, despite being a full caster, I'm not relying on my spells to directly overcome challenges. Ideally, I'm avoiding (and pranking). Although I would like a Petal-sized ranged weapon (I am proficient in bow and modern firearms), just in case I actually had to fight something.

Strategy: I'd most likely disappear. If anything happens to my loved ones while I am away, I'll rely on late game True Resurrection / Teleport Through Time to deal with it later.

Let's say I visit a zoo on day 1. Just sneaking past all the level 1 commoners (let alone the guards and level 20 experts) should give me enough xp to level to the point where such commoners no longer give me xp (level 9). Then sneaking past all the animals to collect samples is probably another 2-3 levels - I'd have to do the math.

Lucid dreaming should allow me to speak with some beings which may be helpful? The way the OP describes it, and the way I've seen it played are so different, it's difficult for me to reconcile my notions of how it should work with "reality". Hopefully, when I have ranks in the skill, it will all make sense.

If the epic wizards don't prevent it / remove the idea from my head, I should be able to plane shift away by day 2 at the latest. So I'll either need to start with a tuning fork, or invent a custom spell that doesn't require such a focus. Or use knowledge arcana / planes to find a portal out (which, with judicious use of Wield Skill, plus a (custom?) 2nd level counterpart, I may be able to do as my first action of the game). Why? Items, and because I neither trust the "mundanes", nor the PvP crowd.


* I figure getting a +2 circumstance bonus to a skill for things I claim to have any personal ability in isn't overkill.

[TotallyNotEvil]

I just know 3.5 material, but I'd probably take Steel Dragon Wyrmling, Spell Hoarding + Loredrake. R5k3 for three stats, probably INT, CON and DEX or CHA.

Steel Wyrmling has 3HD/2LA, going by the user above, so that's d10 HP (Because Loredrake), 6 + INT skills (with a Wiz' int), all good saves, full BAB, +10 vs poison, 150ft average Flight + 30ft swim, SR 16, +2 INT, +2 CON, +2 CHA, -4 WIS, +5 Spellcraft, +3 NA, ability to know any spell I counterspell, ability to counterspell with any spell I prepare if it's from the same level and school, and add that spell to spells known, and IIRC, blindsense and immunity to sleep and paralysis. Oh, and immunity to any spell that targets humanoids.

But the real star is casting as a Wizard 3. So add another level of Eidetic Domain Wizard and a level of Unarmed Swordsage to round out the melee fighting, and I'd end up Wiz4/Swordsage 1, with the aforementioned bonuses, and a lifespan in the thousands of years. Oh, and ability to take human form.

The strongest? Not by a long shot, but I think I'd live with it, and would be well rounded.

But you mentioned there are other threads like this. Links?

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Since I supposedly have about 12 seconds to decide (what, no advanced time stop effect?) I’m going to answer the question without looking anything up or thinking too hard about anything to the effect of looking it up, like the exact average of a 5d6k3 roll. I’m probably going to come back to this post later and add and edit section on how bad my choice looked ones I looked it up properly.

First, the obvious choice is cleric. Whether you want to be good, want to be rich and famous or just want to not blame yourself next time a loved one dies, you have to go cleric. The only real reason I can come up with fast for not doing it is that you already worship a god you like and don’t want to betray, and I don’t. Since I don’t want to answer cleric I’m going to assume I have some good reason to believe the extremely powerful and well-rounded clerics and all other healers have a huge chance to die in the next two minutes or something.

I’m also assuming I get to keep all my real world skills and knowledge and will still be able to improve upon them, but the total amount of skill I have and the speed with which I learn are dependent on all the appropriate modifiers or something. So if I pick rogue I’ll have the easiest time learning things, but the advantage pretty much disappears if I want to learn anything with legitimate legal uses.

Flavor-wise I’m pretty close to a ranger. Half labrat, half outdoorsman. However, I don’t really like the ranger mechanically. I don’t need a bunch of favored enemies and I don’t want to spend an hour meditating just to get a few minutes of talking to an animal, if my wisdom score even qualifies me for as much. A second option might be what my friends might answer if you ask them what class I should be: barbarian. But it just seems kind of useless in the real world? I feel like raging more than enough already, and I never get a legitimate reason to do it. Trapsense and lots of hitpoints would be kind of cool, be it of very limited use, and for the rest I don’t really know what the class is about.

So, In my 12 seconds, I’d frantically try to think of better options, and I probably blurt out “Elemental bloodrager.” I know it gets the same rage, but it also gets some spells, a new move speed and some other small elemental powers. Although the temptation to choice air as my element for just the fly speed and nothing else would be big, but I guess I should stick to what I’m good at and I’m really more of a ground or water person (or wood, if we play fast and loose with the elements). Although I’m not sure I’d even still enjoy kayaking with too much control over water, I’m still going to pick that element. Watch out world, I’m going to make some waves.

As the seconds ticks away I say as an afterthought: “And variant multiclass ranger.” (if that's even a thing in Pathfinder.) I seem to remember it doesn’t get to move through nature undetected by man or beast until a very high level, so that’s a shame, as I would love to be able to just go into any vulnerable area without disturbing the animals (or any chance of getting caught), nature is so much better if it’s accessible and near civilization. But at least I get the generally awesome track feat, plus getting just humans as a favored enemy would actually be really helpful in pretty much every aspect of daily life.

Speaking of humans, I’m not changing race. It’s just too weird to suddenly be a minotaur in today’s society. It’s not like I have plans for having children or anything, but it’d be kind of cool if it at least was still an option. Without them being misshapen medical anomalies preferably.

Stats wise I’m keeping my above average strength and intelligence and my at least average constitution. My probably at least sort of near average wisdom can stay as well, even if only because I figure intuition and stuff are too much a part of my personality, as unhoned as it may be. My charisma and dexterity are low enough that 5d6k3 will most likely be an improvement. So let’s roll those. It’d be kind of weird if one of them turned out really good, would definitely give me a minor identity crisis, but that’s nothing being an elementalist as well as generally awesome can’t fix.

So, disaster strikes and I beat it into pulp, as I don’t think I get a lot of other powers at level 4. I really, really hope this trouble is something I can handle.

Afterwards I’m not going to try to keep my new powers a secret. Sooner or later someone will find out. If it’s not a fellow chosen one who did become an all-powerful caster and immediately became obsessed with leveling (something I’m way too relaxed for, and also too deeply invested in other areas of skill building and research) it could be a government agency, an organized crime ring or maybe even a terrorist group. (Hey, apparently my current neighborhood is the national jihad recruitment capital. I’m not exactly the target audience, but weirder things have happened…) If I go public, I attract attention from all sorts of people, making it much harder for any ill-intentioned one of them to subtly get a grip on me.

So there you have it. One water sorcerer barbarian ranger combo for me, surfed on a way too long reply.

EDIT: Okay, let's see what I got for my 12 second wall of text.

Str 13 (est)
Int 13 (est) + 2 (human) = 15
Con 12 (est)
Wis 10 (est)
Dex 10 (rolled)
Cha 16 (rolled) Nice...

HP: 10 + *roll* 11 + 4 (con) = 25
BAB: +4
Fort +4 Ref +1 Will +1
Skill ranks: (4 (bloodrager) + 2 (intelligence) + 1 (human)) * 7 (level 4) = 7 * 7 = 49
Class skills Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Perception (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Languages: Common + Dutch + one more.
Starting wealth: 110gp (Rolled, not compensated for being fourth level. But that amount of gold should sell for plenty.)
Proficiencies: medium armor (without spell failure chance), martial weapons, non-tower shields.
Feats: Track, Eschew Materials + 3 more (level 1, human. elemental bonus feat).
Spells Known: 2
Spells per day: 1 + 1 (charisma)
Raging: 4 + 1 + 6 = 11 rounds/day (can still cast spells)
Speed: 40 (+10)
Other stuff: Elemental Strike, Uncanny Dodge, Blood Sanctuary, Elemental Resistance

Not bad. That gives me a full 65 seconds to rage that plane safely to the ground, after which I can pick my skills, feats and spells at my leisure. And if that plan fails I'll just uncanny dodge the ground and track the wizard that caused the crash down. So, what did I win?

[Necromancy]

I think that before we do these kinds of questions, we need to come up with a relate able scale to assign our stats

[TotallyNotEvil]

Or a situation table. Like, roll a d6, it it's one your plane will crash in fifteen minutes, if it's a two you are in the middle of a forest fire, etc.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I tend to go by the arrays. Standard array is 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 or 10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11, elite array is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. So the average in anything is 10.5, and 15 is very good, like the strength of an elite soldier, the reflexes of a good pilot or the intelligence of a top scientist. 11 or 12 is already noticeable, with a 13 or 14 you tend to every now and then find yourself being the *whatever*est person in the room (unless you only hang out with people who are like you in that respect, like a strong person who's life consists of going to the gym, playing rugby and shifting cargo at the docks). This scale feels like it works well with the carrying capacity (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/exploration-movement#TOC-Carrying-Capacity). A light load is a backpack. A strength 9 character (a pretty standard woman, sorry women) can carry a 30 pound/15 kg backpack. A strength 13 character can carry one that weights 50 pounds/25 kg. I've walked with packs like that before, I don't think I'd like the 76 pount/38 kg pack the strength 16 character can take.

Another alternative would be to go by standard = 3d6 per stat elite = 4d6b1 per stat. This gives roughly the same averages but makes the outliers more normal. A little under 10 percent of the "standard" people have a stat of 18 that way, so it would not be weird to give your best stat a 16, while if you base it on the arrays you need a bit of an ego for that (or just an honestly really really good stat). Of course, this also lowers your bad stats. To a "standard" person a 5 is just as exceptional as a 16. Since we get rerolls anyway, this may be the version we want. :smallbiggrin:

Crap, why do my posts always end up longer than I intended?

[Necromancy]

I couldn't stat myself with standard array. Honestly I think 2e skills and powers would be way more accurate to stat into

[GrayDeath]

Ahm the 12 Second Limit only applies if you try to ARGUE with the GodWizards (or do cheesy stuff).
The Time Stop Effect for you to DECIDE, if none of the aforementioned 2 things happens, is "Blizzard" (also known as "as long as it takes^^).


So no need to rush the decision ... but lets just assume that its not enough time to read through and understand all pathfinder Rules, so I`ll be nice and state that complete Rule Knowledge equal to "has at least read everything twice" is granted.

For a more or less reliable way to come up with real world stats I will give the following 2 Variants:

Variant 1: For logical beings honest enough to themselves (and aware that the aforementioned God Wizards will nerf you if you argue wrongly^^):
We set 10 as the complete todays average. The +2 for Human is, of course, already included in us so:
+1/+2: above average but still entirely normal (IQ wise say +10 to 19pts, strengthwise the gap from average to moderately stron, Con wise to moderately fit, Wisdomwise to quite intuitive, Charismawise to quite likeable, dexwise to a bit better in botrh reflexes and precision).
+3: the upper ceiling of "still entirely normal": Good.
As above but better.
+4: The start of "above normal". With this stat you are REWALLY good in your area. Dex is a Ping Pong Champion (local), Strength a strong Woodsman, Con a hobby Rugby Player, Charisma a good actor, Intelligence someone with IQ in the areas of 14ish (meaning just shoirt of genius), and wise enough to be a very good Philosophy professor.
+5: here we start reaching the area I am very much in doubt anyone among us has any stat in real life.
Lets just call it "normal Human Maximum" and be done with it, everything above is rulewise off unless proof is supplied.

Or for the more fun oriented: Complete the "Which D&D Class am I" Test here http://www.easydamus.com/character.html , answer honestly, and assume your stats are more or less correct to slightly too good.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I tend to go by the arrays. Standard array is 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 or 10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11, elite array is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. So the average in anything is 10.5, and 15 is very good, like the strength of an elite soldier, the reflexes of a good pilot or the intelligence of a top scientist. 11 or 12 is already noticeable, with a 13 or 14 you tend to every now and then find yourself being the *whatever*est person in the room (unless you only hang out with people who are like you in that respect, like a strong person who's life consists of going to the gym, playing rugby and shifting cargo at the docks). This scale feels like it works well with the carrying capacity (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/exploration-movement#TOC-Carrying-Capacity). A light load is a backpack. A strength 9 character (a pretty standard woman, sorry women) can carry a 30 pound/15 kg backpack. A strength 13 character can carry one that weights 50 pounds/25 kg. I've walked with packs like that before, I don't think I'd like the 76 pount/38 kg pack the strength 16 character can take.

Another alternative would be to go by standard = 3d6 per stat elite = 4d6b1 per stat. This gives roughly the same averages but makes the outliers more normal. A little under 10 percent of the "standard" people have a stat of 18 that way, so it would not be weird to give your best stat a 16, while if you base it on the arrays you need a bit of an ego for that (or just an honestly really really good stat). Of course, this also lowers your bad stats. To a "standard" person a 5 is just as exceptional as a 16. Since we get rerolls anyway, this may be the version we want. :smallbiggrin:

Crap, why do my posts always end up longer than I intended?
Because you have useful things to say?

I agree about going with arrays, mostly because it prevents the whole "I'm already super, got 18s in all my scores" argument from ever taking place, which is the best thing for this discussion.

If you want an accurate scale, though... you'd get in trouble when it comes to representing training. I think that anyone who is a bit of a sports fanatic is probably 12/12/12 or better, being noticably stronger, faster, and enduring than the average. I don't think that's talent, that is, not just talented people are sports fanatics. It's also a matter of training, interest, and work, and anyone (who doesn't have a huge penalty) can reach 12/12/12. D&D, however, only deals in static commoners and heroes. Perhaps it would be most accurate to say that your array represents base stats, and you can get -4 to +4 depending on training, to a minimum of 1. It would certainly work for my stats, because there aren't enough penalties in the standard array to represent my physical stats (:smallannoyed:), but I'm not especially weak/sickly to begin with, just lazy (is that a wisdom penalty?).

To what degree the same goes for mental stats, I couldn't say. Bit of a can of worms, that.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

The +2 is already included? Fine, but I'm assuming it's in my dex, I'd just have been really clumsy had I not been human. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: I still have the result of one of those tests. Not sure it's the same one, but looks like it. I don't know how I filled it in anymore, but I trust the numbers I estimated myself better than these:


You Are A:



Chaotic Neutral Human Sorcerer (4th Level)


Ability Scores:
Strength- 14
Dexterity- 13
Constitution- 15
Intelligence- 13
Wisdom- 11
Charisma- 10

Or maybe I just aged more than I realized. :smallamused:

[GrayDeath]

The +2 is already included? Fine, but I'm assuming it's in my dex, I'd just have been really clumsy had I not been human. :smallbiggrin:

Me too.... welcome to CLub Average Dex despite +2 ^^

[Necromancy]

For a more or less reliable way to come up with real world stats I will give the following 2 Variants:

Variant 1: For logical beings honest enough to themselves (and aware that the aforementioned God Wizards will nerf you if you argue wrongly^^):
We set 10 as the complete todays average. The +2 for Human is, of course, already included in us so:
+1/+2: above average but still entirely normal (IQ wise say +10 to 19pts, strengthwise the gap from average to moderately stron, Con wise to moderately fit, Wisdomwise to quite intuitive, Charismawise to quite likeable, dexwise to a bit better in botrh reflexes and precision).
+3: the upper ceiling of "still entirely normal": Good.
As above but better.
+4: The start of "above normal". With this stat you are REWALLY good in your area. Dex is a Ping Pong Champion (local), Strength a strong Woodsman, Con a hobby Rugby Player, Charisma a good actor, Intelligence someone with IQ in the areas of 14ish (meaning just shoirt of genius), and wise enough to be a very good Philosophy professor.
+5: here we start reaching the area I am very much in doubt anyone among us has any stat in real life.
Lets just call it "normal Human Maximum" and be done with it, everything above is rulewise off unless proof is supplied.

Or for the more fun oriented: Complete the "Which D&D Class am I" Test here http://www.easydamus.com/character.html , answer honestly, and assume your stats are more or less correct to slightly too good.

Neutral Good Dwarf Paladin/Sorcerer (3rd/3rd Level)



Ability Scores:
Strength- 15
Dexterity- 12
Constitution- 18
Intelligence- 17
Wisdom- 13
Charisma- 16

So optimized! I'd say the stats are slightly off though

If I were to stat myself I would use the whole scale. I don't think everyone is so cookie cutter to be all 9s and 11s. Let's assume a broader array where stats vary from 3 to 18 (strength can go higher as it's the only stat you can just improve with simple work)


Ability Scores:
Strength- 15
Dexterity- 8
Constitution- 16
Intelligence- 14
Wisdom- 15
Charisma- 15

Edit- let me elaborate further since I have time

The way I see the skills is this. Average stats are common, most have one or more average stats with a couple high or low that make up their abilities. It's the very low or very high stats (and combinations of) that are absolutely life defining.

A very low stat (6 or less) is likely due to birth defects or diseases. A very high stat (16+) is just good fortune.

Combinations of stats tend to lead to specific careers. Someone with a high DEX and CHA may find a career as a stage magician, INT and DEX would make a good surgeon. Any single 18 in a physical stat would make you an Olympic level athlete. 18 in a mental stat makes you a world renowned scientist/philosopher/etc.

[Conradine]

My real life stats... mmmh, ok.

Let's see. Something like, more or less, that:

Strenght 17
Dexterity 8
Constitution 10
Intelligence 13
Wisdom 9
Charisma 9


I'm quite overweight, not really graceful, I never had a really good balance or coordination. Although I'm not infirm. So a Dex of 8 could be appropriated.

I don't smoke or drink, my blood pressure and glyceim index are good, I've no specific health issues. I can take punches quite well, but I haven't a good fatigue endurance. So, an average 10.

I've quite a good memory, and I did good enough at school. Although I've put a 13 in Int mostly because I'm pretty sure I achieved Combat Expertise ( I did karate and kickboxing, and learned to parry and deflect blows decently ).

I'm quite irritable, sometimes anxious, and I don't handle stress very well ( although I never did insane or seriously dangerous things ). Also, my pain tolerance is somewhat low. Wis 9 seems fair.

I'm a loner. When I was younger I talked much more and was more confident but then... too many doubts, disappointments, failures. Yet, I never lost my linguistic skills. I'm still quite articulate, although shy. I would say, Cha 9 ( but some points in Diplomacy and Bluff )

About my Strenght, well, I bench pressed 249 pounds. So, according to the weight chart, its 17.


---

Taking into account class implications, I would go for the Cloistered Cleric career, with the Scholarly Priest feat ( Intelligence instead of Wisdom for spells ).
I would also take Heretic of the Faith and Servant of the Fallen. Basically I would drain power from the remains of a fallen, forgotten deity without showing any kind of devotion to it, with no risk of divine vengeance.

( Servant of the Fallen to be able to get power from a fallen deity; Heretic of the Faith to follow my own philosophy / lifestyle and choose whatever Dominions and Weapon of Choice I like while still getting powers )

[Lvl 2 Expert]

You know, I’m kind of curious now what the scan would say about me in the beginning. I guess there’s always the option of just going in as myself.

Lvl 2 Expert

Int 14
Str 13
Con 12
Wis 10
Dex 7+2=9 :p
Cha 8

HP: 8-14 I suspect near the higher end of that range.
BAB: +1 I must have reached second level somewhere after my judo days.
Fort +1 Ref -1 Wil +3 Save VS falling down the stairs is definitely a reflex thing.
Skill points: 35, skills include knowledge (nature), profession (labrat), gather information, survival and use rope
Feats: nature sense (okay, it’s a druidic ability, but I like to think they gave it to me anyway), martial weapon proficiency handaxe.

Bring on that plane crash. I'll knot it down safely.

[Quertus]

Ahm the 12 Second Limit only applies if you try to ARGUE with the GodWizards (or do cheesy stuff).
The Time Stop Effect for you to DECIDE, if none of the aforementioned 2 things happens, is "Blizzard" (also known as "as long as it takes^^).


So no need to rush the decision ... but lets just assume that its not enough time to read through and understand all pathfinder Rules, so I`ll be nice and state that complete Rule Knowledge equal to "has at least read everything twice" is granted.

For a more or less reliable way to come up with real world stats I will give the following 2 Variants:

Variant 1: For logical beings honest enough to themselves (and aware that the aforementioned God Wizards will nerf you if you argue wrongly^^):
We set 10 as the complete todays average. The +2 for Human is, of course, already included in us so:
+1/+2: above average but still entirely normal (IQ wise say +10 to 19pts, strengthwise the gap from average to moderately stron, Con wise to moderately fit, Wisdomwise to quite intuitive, Charismawise to quite likeable, dexwise to a bit better in botrh reflexes and precision).
+3: the upper ceiling of "still entirely normal": Good.
As above but better.
+4: The start of "above normal". With this stat you are REWALLY good in your area. Dex is a Ping Pong Champion (local), Strength a strong Woodsman, Con a hobby Rugby Player, Charisma a good actor, Intelligence someone with IQ in the areas of 14ish (meaning just shoirt of genius), and wise enough to be a very good Philosophy professor.
+5: here we start reaching the area I am very much in doubt anyone among us has any stat in real life.
Lets just call it "normal Human Maximum" and be done with it, everything above is rulewise off unless proof is supplied.

Or for the more fun oriented: Complete the "Which D&D Class am I" Test here http://www.easydamus.com/character.html , answer honestly, and assume your stats are more or less correct to slightly too good.

Good to know about the 12 seconds rule. Not surprised Troll Blooded counts as cheesy. Honestly, I'd still like it, even for my avoidance Petal, because, given the choice, why not have a body I can keep pristine forever?

I think your scale is a bit too generous :smallwink: If "local champion" gets an 18, I'd have a 20+ int. :smalltongue: I like the stats I got in the online test you linked to (and agree that they are slightly too good) - I'm a True Neutral Human Wizard (elven paladin was a close second) who is the bane of the triskaidekaphobic (most of my stats were "13"). Oddly, unlike the previous test I took, this one said that Wisdom was my lowest stat. I'll adjust my stats with Petal racial modifiers when I get back to my books, and modify my character sheet accordingly (assuming I can remember which stats I rerolled, and can reverse-engineer the rolls).

Oh, and I've been wondering since I first saw this thread - what did you mean by, "no retraining"? Stating out my character, I'm guessing I've ran across what you meant, but I'm not sure. Petals get "Weapon Finesse" as a bonus feat - I'm guessing you mean that we can't swap that out for some other feat. Did I get that right?

[GrayDeath]

I meant no use of the "Retraining" Rules.
Ergo Feat Swapping, achieving x due to y then swapping Y for B, ergo: you pick your Class(es), you are stuck with them. period.


The reginal Champ gets a 14. Everything above 15 is really really good (I do not have any Ability score in that area, though my best one with self-critizizing rating of 14, comes close).

Also,a s a chaotic good human wizard with close seconds in Sorcerer, Cleric and Elf, I can relate. ^^

Not gonna post my Test Stats too soon, dont want to spoil it, but in general if answered truly "honest" with a bit erring on the side of less, the test tends to be (imo) close to fitting to fitting +2.
So one could get realisticly close by subtracting 1 from all stats generated (still too much likeliness of above 15 but hey, ^^):



@ level 2 Expert: That post made my day. ^^

[Vizzerdrix]

Hmm... How about commoner-1/fighter-1/sorcerer-4/MotAO-7/Abjurant Champ-5. On a kobold.

Commoner 1 lets you get the weresheep flaw. Making you the most nonthreatening lycanthrope, but still a lycanthrope with all the goodies and an extra feat to boot. The main goodie Id be after is that 2 wis boost all lycanthropes get, along with the DR. Now normally wis is a dump stat for a sorc, but I would pump it as high as I could for one reason. Shapesand. Id get barrels of the stuff with my starting wbl and use it to insta-win the opening crisis. Plane crash? Giant parachute. Sinking ship? New ship. Radiation? Radiation suits for as many people as I can make. You get the idea.

Can kobolds get the troll blooded feat? That plus aberrant dragonmark are the sole reason for the fighter dip. If they cant, then drop it for more caster.

Sorc/kobold synergy would be in full effect with all the bells and whistles. And while I may be a scaley little monster, I only have to get to New Zealand and I will be safe, hiddden among my wooly brothers.

MotAO would solve the limited spells known and provide a barganing chip for fellow PCs. Abj Champ is just to play off from the fihter level.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

A tad ambitious though for a level 4 2 class build, 16 levels from 5 classes. :smalltongue:

[ExLibrisMortis]

Can kobolds get the troll blooded feat? That plus aberrant dragonmark are the sole reason for the fighter dip. If they cant, then drop it for more caster.
No, you need to be a human. In any case, fighter levels aren't great, you should probably go with crusader for the bab/proficiencies. Gets you some tasty healing powers.

[tadkins]

People in these threads overlook a lot of drawbacks to classes that translate a little differently in real life. I have some personal thoughts on the basic classes

Wizards .....you seem great on paper but consider that you'll spend the rest of your life studying like you're prepping for your dissertation in physics



I'd like to think that I would make a decent wizard in real life. Spend more time reading and learning than anything else.

I'm not strong or tough enough to be a melee type, fast enough to be a rogue type, or charismatic enough to be a bard type. The thought of getting cut frightens me so I try to do something that involves staying in the back. It's for that reason I tend to relate most to caster type characters, and why I tend to play wizards in RPGs. xD

[Vizzerdrix]

A tad ambitious though for a level 4 2 class build, 16 levels from 5 classes. :smalltongue:
Always plan ahead.

No, you need to be a human. In any case, fighter levels aren't great, you should probably go with crusader for the bab/proficiencies. Gets you some tasty healing powers.
Ick. I have never been a fan of that book. Drop kobold for human, or drop fighter and pick up regeneration from a template.

Either way, weresheep and shapesand all the way.

[Hamste]

I would go with Dhamphir reincarnated druid making sure one of my languages is Mandarin (if I get more then Spanish followed by Hindi). Statistically if we assume the picks are random then about 1 in 7 people chosen will be Chinese and I would like to be able to speak to anyone who tracks me down. The most important thing is that I just have to survive a single level to get the reincarnation ability. Then I can kill myself twice before 7th level to get grave risen using magic to disguise myself if I look less human (this should also make it much more difficult to track me as well as the bonus I get from being a reincarnated druid). Using 3.5 sources I will then work towards making myself as immune to everything as possible.

[GrayDeath]

Aside from prestige Classes its Pathfinder though.
Also thinking about killing yo8urself would probably make you so lame in the eyes of the GameWizards that they ... remove you. Even if no cheese was involved. :P


@ Kobold Power: one of the God Wizards is a Kobold, so you might either be laughed ant (and denied), laughed at (and allowed the stuff for the lulz) or simply annihalated for incroaching on his turf.

Your choice if you wanna try it. ^^

[Eldest]

Since 3.5 base classes aren't allowed, I actually looked over my options... and still ended up very close to what I would normally pick in 3.5 (Factotum): an Archeologist Bard. Grab enchantment and utility spells and as much boosting of the bardic music as I can, so the archologist's self-buff gets better. Cheerfully wander the world mapping out who's "gifted" and sell my services as a messenger through proxies. If I can't buy an item of Nondetection, keep it up 24/7 with my casting.

[Vizzerdrix]

@ Kobold Power: one of the God Wizards is a Kobold, so you might either be laughed ant (and denied), laughed at (and allowed the stuff for the lulz) or simply annihalated for incroaching on his turf.

Your choice if you wanna try it. ^^

I figure that the weresheep flaw will be enough funny to keep them amused for a while all on its own.

[Hamste]

Aside from prestige Classes its Pathfinder though.
Also thinking about killing yo8urself would probably make you so lame in the eyes of the GameWizards that they ... remove you. Even if no cheese was involved. :P


Are you talking about my plan (I think mine is the only one that includes planned death but I might be mistaken)? All the named things in my plan are pathfinder, reincarnated druid is an archetype from pathfinder that gives you once per week free reincarnate on yourself (as well as some other things). Grave Risen is an achievement feat that you can only take if you die and be brought back to life twice (which obviously I haven't done with out the class help) and basically gives you a once per life nope on something that would kill you. The main weakness of the build is that it only works once per week and you have to deal with death effects and certain other things that stop reincarnation. Deathward no longer protects against those and items are not really an option as I will die and lose them but I'm sure there is a prestige class that does in 3.5 (or I have to go Living Monolith from pathfinder).

[GrayDeath]

You actually had me there.

I didn`t know that archetype (as usual in such thing sif picking more or less strange combos info on where its from is appreciated).

I still think the Concept lameish, but its more or less (See Douche Wizards^^) legal then, mea culpa.

Still, planning on something that requires multiple deaths and has other strange thingies attached might not be the most logical choice for the setup. Just saying. ^^

[Quertus]

Aside from prestige Classes its Pathfinder though.

Um... Does pathfinder have the same spells as D&D? More importantly, does it have the same balance of spells (as I'm planning on going near 100% custom spells anyway)?

Most of my early game is based on my race, but does pathfinder have a class with... spontaneous spell research, good / customizable skill selection, and the ability to cast all of the spells I've mentioned (true resurrection, wield skill, mind rape, plane shift, cure disease) and similar... without being tied to one specific deity?

EDIT: Heck, does it use the same skills? The same feats? I feel like it was known for, "x attribute to y ability" shenanigans (or was that 4e?) Anything else I should know about the game (or the pathfinder metagame)?

[GrayDeath]

In general Pathfinder has many of D&D`s Spells, although the obvious exploits have been nerfed (Polimorph Line for example), so no, probably not without massive amounts of cheese.
The Archivist might be able to do SOME of it, as are Clerics of course, but to my (not all encompassing, see above) knowledge no.

Better try a build thats more "realisticly powerful" than theoretically gamechanging/breaking, works in the short term, and does not get you deleted by the God Wizards.
Just a hint. ^^

[Quertus]

In general Pathfinder has many of D&D`s Spells, although the obvious exploits have been nerfed (Polimorph Line for example), so no, probably not without massive amounts of cheese.
The Archivist might be able to do SOME of it, as are Clerics of course, but to my (not all encompassing, see above) knowledge no.

Better try a build thats more "realisticly powerful" than theoretically gamechanging/breaking, works in the short term, and does not get you deleted by the God Wizards.
Just a hint. ^^

I was told pathfinder is just as broken as 3e, it's just broken differently.

So I read up on pathfinder archivist. It seems nothing like its D&D counterpart. Based off the Pathfinder bard (?!), it gets a few random skill-boosting spells, but not much of what I want or need. Late game (?!), the archivist adds some skill stuff. Given that the things I want come online late to never, unless I missed something, it's really not useful for my purposes . :smallfrown:

I'm concerned by what you might mean by "realisticly powerful", and what hidden biases it may imply. :smallannoyed:

I'm not going for powerful, I'm going for entertaining. Me fighting is not entertaining - trust me on that one. Me surviving (or dying from) disease or radiation doesn't sound like a barrel of laughs for the folks at home, either. But an impossible to locate genius prankster? That sounds like a ratings booster in my book. :smallwink:

The rest is just to make that possible, and to give me some reason to care. Wizards want to give me 20 levels of fighter for making my life ****, and threatening my loved ones? Nah, not gonna get a good performance out of me. Offer me cool things I probably can't get otherwise in this world, and vouchers to bring back my threatened loved ones (ie, class with true resurrection), and you'll see me put my heart into the performance.

For the most entertaining version of me fighting... would slave hydra for familiarity + polymorph + assume supernatural ability still work after Pathfinder's nerfs to polymorph*? Even if it does, I think "genius unlocatable prankster" sounds way more entertaining than "how many problems can I solve by turning into a hydra"**, and comes online sooner.

Mindless robot who sacrificed his self for his loved ones would be entertaining for a single episode, but unless the target audience had a really... rarified taste for drama, I expect that robo-me would be cancelled after the first appearance. And I won't comment on the irony of being a mindless cleric. :smalltongue:

Of my three basic concepts, "unseen prankster" comes online immediately***, and sounds the most entertaining. What am I missing? Am I on the right track here, or have I completely misinterpreted the adventure hook?

* if this kind of thing still works, does pathfinder still have other ways to go about changing into a hydra, that might come online earlier? With just allowed 3.x content, I seem to recall there was some kind of shape-changing race + prestige class combination that would probably be optimal here, but, even if I use early enter tricks for everything else (and didn't get called out for cheese for doing so), because of hd, I still couldn't change into hydra from the get go.

** because I probably can't count on being "familiar" with anything else fantastical, and we're scheduled to be challenged in too rapid a succession for me to count on becoming familiar with anything else, even with summon spells.

*** even in the Hunger Games, not being seen was quite an advantage. How much more so here, where Hide in Plain Sight exists?

EDIT: btw, if you ever write a book or something based on this idea, feel free to separate my various ideas, and include them as separate people in the wizards' game. :smallwink:

[GrayDeath]

Lets get this back up, shall we?

I am still looking for some more inspirational, if in any way possible not "theorycrafted" (you know who I am talking to ^^) Concepts.

Inspire me!

[Calthropstu]

...

Psion all the way.
Aasimar might be cool.

Edit:

Powers known 4 level telepath psion:
Charm
Astral Construct (We'd finally know how much they weigh!) via feat
Energy ray
Defy Gravity
Metamorphisis
Slumber
Mind link
Cloud mind
Few others.

Feats: Expanded knowledge, overchannel.

Eventually jumping into thrallherd.

Reroll charisma.