Any way to move after Charge/Dive? Flyby Attack? magic items?

[Gruftzwerg]

Is there any way to move (not teleport) after a charge/dive attack? My intention is to use that movement to provoke as much AoO as possible (and to proc AoO with other feats/class options on my side from the enemy AoO, e.g. Karmic Strike). And Ride-By Attack isn't an option here (the character in question isn't mounted and is flying himself).

I thought Flyby Attack could accomplish this, but looking up several discussions on the net, most people seem to disagree with that. Both use up full action rounds and seem to exclude each other.
On the other hand Flyby Attack says that its movement action can include a dive. And when I look up SRD, "dive" doesn't seem to be a keyword for the accelerated down movement while flying. Only "dive attack" and "down speed" are mentioned..
So what takes the upper hand? Is Flyby attack supposed to give you a special type of charging and altering the charge rules when the situation applies it? Or is Charge overshadowing everything else that tries to change it full round action demand for itself ( I hope you get what I mean ).

Are there any other ways to move after a charge/dive attack? maybe magic items or something else I am missing? And as said, the movement should be able to pull AoO from the enemies passed.
Any other ideas to provoke AoO as a free action after a charge?^^

edit: to clarify further, race & class is set already. the options should be feats (preferring no maneuvers/ ToB) or magic items.

[Necroticplague]

Are there any other ways to move after a charge/dive attack? maybe magic items or something else I am missing? And as said, the movement should be able to pull AoO from the enemies passed.
Any other ideas to provoke AoO as a free action after a charge?^^

Swift Leap maneuver, some creatures have more than normal actions they could use to move, Travel Devotion, using wands of celerity or belts of battle.

[Troacctid]

You need a way to move as a swift action. Easy ways to do this include but are not limited to the Travel Devotion feat, the Sudden Leap maneuver, the Hustle power, or a Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker.

[Deophaun]

A chronocharm of the horizon walker (MIC) would likely be your cheapest option at 500 gp.

[OldTrees1]

Since a charge(and various variants like Dive Attack. Flyby Attack is not a variant) is a full round action involving movement ended by some attacks, you would need one of:
Swift action movement (Various will be listed)
Extra actions per round (White Raven Tactics, Belt of Battle)
Out of turn movement (Evasive Reflexes)


Certain attacks provoke an AoO. You could always end your pounce with an untrained unarmed strike. Combine with Robliar's Gambit and Evasive Reflexes for movement?


Edit: Honestly if you are trying for a provoking build, Flyby Attack is better than Dive Attack(since you get more attacks from your AoOs that you would from the full attack of a pounce).

[Gruftzwerg]

Swift Leap maneuver, some creatures have more than normal actions they could use to move, Travel Devotion, using wands of celerity or belts of battle.

Ty for your quick reply. Yeah, Belt of Battle could be an option for the character, 3 charges/day is a bit limiting but the other options aren't available for the character (no maneuvers/ToB allowed, race & class progress is set).

edit (the other replies did come faster that expected^^):
To point it out again, the movement should be able to draw AoO. "Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker" and "Evasive Reflexes" don't provoke AoO.
I am trying to carry the charge/dive bonuses over to my AoO ( since they take all active bonuses from the actual round ). And using only Flyby Attack without Charge/Dive wouldn't be an option in this situation.

Again ty all for your suggestions. Any more ideas?

[OldTrees1]

I am trying to carry the charge/dive bonuses over to my AoO ( since they take all active bonuses from the actual round ).

Doesn't work. The +2 Attack, Power Attack multipliers, and Dive Attack's x2 multiplier only apply to the actual charge's attack(or attacks with pounce). They do not apply to any other attacks made that round(not even AoOs made in the middle of your pounce).

[Gruftzwerg]

Doesn't work. The +2 Attack, Power Attack multipliers, and Dive Attack's x2 multiplier only apply to the actual charge's attack(or attacks with pounce). They do not apply to any other attacks made that round(not even AoOs made in the middle of your pounce).

Really? My group ( and everyone who is DMing in it) always ruled different. We always thought that the sentence "You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a -2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn." would count for both, the bonus and the penalty until the start of your next turn.
Sure you have later the sentence "Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.", but imho it is just limiting the amount of attacks normally available for charging. And it only prohibits extra attacks from Dual Wilding and high BAB, not from all sources.
And if I try to "draw a picture" of the combat round (where everything should take place simultaneously while people act in their initiative-chain), the charger still has the momentum in the moment the AoO is provoked. Sure this doesn't help with RAW, but at least my thoughts tell me that RAI should behave like this imho.

That's why I thought it would be legal to use the charge bonus on all attacks available in the round.

getting confused :smallconfused:

[Magesmiley]

I'm vaguely remembering something (can't recall if it was a magic item, prestige class, or something else) in a book I was looking at the other day that let you charge as a standard action (with only a single move instead of double), which would leave you an additional move leftover. I'll see if I can dig it up.

[Troacctid]

Really? My group ( and everyone who is DMing in it) always ruled different. We always thought that the sentence "You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a -2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn." would count for both, the bonus and the penalty until the start of your next turn.
Sure you have later the sentence "Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.", but imho it is just limiting the amount of attacks normally available for charging. And it only prohibits extra attacks from Dual Wilding and high BAB, not from all sources.
And if I try to "draw a picture" of the combat round (where everything should take place simultaneously while people act in their initiative-chain), the charger still has the momentum in the moment the AoO is provoked. Sure this doesn't help with RAW, but at least my thoughts tell me that RAI should behave like this imho.

That's why I thought it would be legal to use the charge bonus on all attacks available in the round.

getting confused :smallconfused:

You get a bonus on the attack roll (referring back to the attack you made during the charge), not on all attack rolls you make during the round.

[martixy]

You need a way to move as a swift action. Easy ways to do this include but are not limited to the Travel Devotion feat, the Sudden Leap maneuver, the Hustle power, or a Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker.

Belt of Battle.

Celerity... technically. (They too are swift actions that grant at least a move action, limitations notwithstanding.)

Anticipatory Strike, Hustle, Sychronicity and all the various ways psionics f**cks with the action economy. That's practically their specialty.

[rrwoods]

Doesn't work. The +2 Attack, Power Attack multipliers, and Dive Attack's x2 multiplier only apply to the actual charge's attack(or attacks with pounce). They do not apply to any other attacks made that round(not even AoOs made in the middle of your pounce).

Power Attack's attack penalty and damage bonus apply until your next turn starts.

EDIT: Wait, you said power attack "multipliers" -- those I'm not so sure about.

[OldTrees1]

Really? My group ( and everyone who is DMing in it) always ruled different. We always thought that the sentence "You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a -2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn." would count for both, the bonus and the penalty until the start of your next turn.
Sure you have later the sentence "Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.", but imho it is just limiting the amount of attacks normally available for charging. And it only prohibits extra attacks from Dual Wilding and high BAB, not from all sources.
And if I try to "draw a picture" of the combat round (where everything should take place simultaneously while people act in their initiative-chain), the charger still has the momentum in the moment the AoO is provoked. Sure this doesn't help with RAW, but at least my thoughts tell me that RAI should behave like this imho.

That's why I thought it would be legal to use the charge bonus on all attacks available in the round.

getting confused :smallconfused:
Charge:
+2 bonus on the attack roll
-2 AC until start of next turn
Normally the "and" would make this ambiguous if duration was only mentioned on one side, however "the attack roll" is another duration descriptor (refering back to the singular attack the Charge action grants).
Dive Attack

A creature that flies can make dive attacks. A dive attack works just like a charge, but the diving creature must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. It can make only claw or talon attacks, but these deal double damage. A creature can use the run action while flying, provided it flies in a straight line.
Those attacks (the ones that are part of the variant charge) deal double damage

Leap Attack

You can combine a jump with a charge against an opponent. If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump, and you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target, you deal +100% the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat. If you use this tactic with a two-handed weapon, you instead triple the extra damage from Power Attack.
As you can see, the +100% is modifying the charge action, not modifying all your attacks.


So if your table rules differently, then we will need to be told all those relevant differences.




Power Attack's attack penalty and damage bonus apply until your next turn starts.

EDIT: Wait, you said power attack "multipliers" -- those I'm not so sure about.
Correct, the attack penalty and damage bonus apply (just like the charge AC penalty persists). Relevant multipliers only apply while they are relevant.

[Gruftzwerg]

So if your table rules differently, then we will need to be told all those relevant differences.


We didn't intend to make a house-rule, so I guess I will bring up this topic the next time play..^^ It's just that our interpretation was mislead due to sentence structure (and maybe translation, since our corebooks aren't in english)

Ty again for all the info & help. I think the topic is done for me, since I realized that I can't carry the charge/dive bonuses to other attacks (lil end question: Is this also true for Cleave? Is cleave also incapable of carrying the charge bonus/multipliers on it's related attacks?). But still, I learned something and that alone is the important part ;)

[OldTrees1]

We didn't intend to make a house-rule, so I guess I will bring up this topic the next time play..^^ It's just that our interpretation was mislead due to sentence structure (and maybe translation, since our corebooks aren't in english)

Ty again for all the info & help. I think the topic is done for me, since I realized that I can't carry the charge/dive bonuses to other attacks (lil end question: Is this also true for Cleave? Is cleave also incapable of carrying the charge bonus/multipliers on it's related attacks?). But still, I learned something and that alone is the important part ;)

Cleave is mostly unaffected. It would not get any multipliers. However it does inherit the attack bonus of the attack that permitted the cleave.

The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature.