Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments Question

[Aldarin]

I currently am playing a 5E campaign with a pretty strict DM. Anyway, my wizard just got a Nolzur's Marvelous pigments. In the description for that item, it says 'nothing the pigments create can have a value of 25 gp or more.' My question is this: Do you think it would be within the rules to paint a platinum coin, seal the pot, paint more platinum coins, and so on to get 12,000 or so platinum coins?

Thanks,
Aldarin

[BiPolar]

I currently am playing a 5E campaign with a pretty strict DM. Anyway, my wizard just got a Nolzur's Marvelous pigments. In the description for that item, it says 'nothing the pigments create can have a value of 25 gp or more.' My question is this: Do you think it would be within the rules to paint a platinum coin, seal the pot, paint more platinum coins, and so on to get 12,000 or so platinum coins?

Thanks,
Aldarin


If you paint an object of greater value (such as a diamond or pile of gold), the object looks authentic, but close inspection reveals it is made from paste, bone, or some other worthless material.

To me, this means your plan won't work. You can paint those coins to get 12,000 of them and expend the pot. And now you've got 12,000 coins that, upon close inspection, are literally not worth the materials from which they are made.

[Aldarin]

To me, this means your plan won't work. You can paint those coins to get 12,000 of them and expend the pot. And now you've got 12,000 coins that, upon close inspection, are literally not worth the materials from which they are made.

I think you're missing my point. In this rulebreaking half-logic, I'm not painting something worth 12,000 pp--I'm painting 12,000 things worth 1 pp. I seal the pot after each coin. I get this is jaded thinking, I'm just wondering if you would allow that in a game you were hypothetically DMing.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I currently am playing a 5E campaign with a pretty strict DM. Anyway, my wizard just got a Nolzur's Marvelous pigments. In the description for that item, it says 'nothing the pigments create can have a value of 25 gp or more.' My question is this: Do you think it would be within the rules to paint a platinum coin, seal the pot, paint more platinum coins, and so on to get 12,000 or so platinum coins?

Thanks,
Aldarin

Seems legit, but also a horrible waste of such a powerful item (not to mention your valuable time).

I'd be tempted to monkey-paw that idea if I were DM. Maybe by having Nolzur himself show up and club you upside the head!

[RickAllison]

To me, this means your plan won't work. You can paint those coins to get 12,000 of them and expend the pot. And now you've got 12,000 coins that, upon close inspection, are literally not worth the materials from which they are made.

The issue that I see is that it says you can't paint an object that is worth more than 25 gp and it gives an example of a pile of gold coins. However, painting 12,000 platinum coins individually would mean each individual painting would not exceed that limit. If you take 25 gp as the maximum value for the entire pot... well you would soon find that everything the pot made was made of paste/bone!

[BiPolar]

I think you're missing my point. In this rulebreaking half-logic, I'm not painting something worth 12,000 pp--I'm painting 12,000 things worth 1 pp. I seal the pot after each coin. I get this is jaded thinking, I'm just wondering if you would allow that in a game you were hypothetically DMing.

Ah, I see what you did there :) I would probably say that's legitimate, but the ultimate value of what you make would be roughly equal to the value of the very rare Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments. So...a wash.

[Aldarin]

Ah, I see what you did there :) I would probably say that's legitimate, but the ultimate value of what you make would be roughly equal to the value of the very rare Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments. So...a wash.

Ah, but it's 1d4 pots. I got a 3. 360,000 gp that I don't have to share with the party.

I can smell the victory...

[BiPolar]

Ah, but it's 1d4 pots. I got a 3. 360,000 gp that I don't have to share with the party.

I can smell the victory...

I think I'm rolling back my statement...RickAllison's reading seems to be more correct. that "nothing created by the pigements can have a value greater than 25gp"

The pigments is the magic item. It's not how you split it up, it's purely 25gp for the entire pot. You have a sum total of 25gp of value inside the pot that you can paint.

[Aldarin]

I think I'm rolling back my statement...RickAllison's reading seems to be more correct. that "nothing created by the pigements can have a value greater than 25gp"

The pigments is the magic item. It's not how you split it up, it's purely 25gp for the entire pot. You have a sum total of 25gp of value inside the pot that you can paint.

That's one way to read it, and I think that's what the description implies. But I'm exploiting rules here. And the way I read it is that you can paint something with a value of up to 25 gp. I'm just doing that en masse.

However, even if all of them were bone or paste or whatever, we could pass it off to a merchant. Would you say... DC 15 investigation check to notice?

[RickAllison]

That's one way to read it, and I think that's what the description implies. But I'm exploiting rules here. And the way I read it is that you can paint something with a value of up to 25 gp. I'm just doing that en masse.

However, even if all of them were bone or paste or whatever, we could pass it off to a merchant. Would you say... DC 15 investigation check to notice?

I wasn't particularly making that case, I just like to argue both sides :smallbiggrin:

I think it is actually a legitimate (if under-handed) strategy. One of the examples given for what you can paint is weapons. 1000 square feet of weapons seems a heck of a lot more than 25 gp, which would mean that every weapon beyond the first two or three would be useless. With the total gp restriction, making one hourglass would ensure you would not be able to make anything useful with the rest of the pot.

[SharkForce]

Ah, but it's 1d4 pots. I got a 3. 360,000 gp that I don't have to share with the party.

I can smell the victory...

why not paint 25 gp gems instead?

[Aldarin]

why not paint 25 gp gems instead?

Yeah, that too. Then, I get 30,000 platinum per pot (assuming my reading of the item). Awesome!

[BiPolar]

I wasn't particularly making that case, I just like to argue both sides :smallbiggrin:

I think it is actually a legitimate (if under-handed) strategy. One of the examples given for what you can paint is weapons. 1000 square feet of weapons seems a heck of a lot more than 25 gp, which would mean that every weapon beyond the first two or three would be useless. With the total gp restriction, making one hourglass would ensure you would not be able to make anything useful with the rest of the pot.

Although the examples given are things like walls, doors, etc. Yse those things probably have a higher real life value than 25gp (doors at home depot are freaking expensive!), but the intent of the item seems to be usefulness and not value.

[BiPolar]

Although the examples given are things like walls, doors, etc. Yse those things probably have a higher real life value than 25gp (doors at home depot are freaking expensive!), but the intent of the item seems to be usefulness and not value.

But either way, if I was DMing, I'd either keep it to use over value or allow value equal to that of the item itself (just that you can sell it to someone who isn't a dealer in magic.)

[indemnity]

I currently am playing a 5E campaign with a pretty strict DM

No, your shenanigans will not work. Your DM won't let you break the game.

The best you can hope for is painting something that appears to be valuable to an oblivious NPC, then quickly running out of town. This magic item is not a gold making machine, just a plot breaking device.

[Aldarin]

No, your shenanigans will not work. Your DM won't let you break the game.

The best you can hope for is painting something that appears to be valuable to an oblivious NPC, then quickly running out of town. This magic item is not a gold making machine, just a plot breaking device.

On what do you base that opinion? I've had some DMs that encouraged gamebreaking.

[Reaper34]

personally wouldn't allow it but some might. atleast until you ran out of paint. though they might require a tool use check for painting. painting a functional door almost anyone can do. painting a coin that doesn't look like a forgery or a gem that's not badly flawed would require a check.

[Aldarin]

personally wouldn't allow it but some might. atleast until you ran out of paint. though they might require a tool use check for painting. painting a functional door almost anyone can do. painting a coin that doesn't look like a forgery or a gem that's not badly flawed would require a check.

No, it doesn't require a check. It says that 'as you focus on the image, the paint flows from the brush to create the object.'

[SharkForce]

Although the examples given are things like walls, doors, etc. Yse those things probably have a higher real life value than 25gp (doors at home depot are freaking expensive!), but the intent of the item seems to be usefulness and not value.

nah, you're thinking adventurer economy. more practically, things are going to be a lot less valuable for most people.

for example, you can buy a gallon of ale (call it roughly equivalent to a gallon of beer) for 2 silver. you can buy a loaf of bread for 2 cp. you can stay at a squalid inn for 7 cp a night.

now go ahead and try to match that up with a decent quality sword, no frills, costing between 10 and 25 gold, depending on model.

now, i don't know about costs where you are... but here i can buy a loaf of bread for about 2.50 (on "sale", but it goes on sale basically every week). which would theoretically place the value of 1 gp at 250 dollars. now, i am no sword expert, but i bet i could buy a functional sword for a lot less than 2500 dollars. a quick google search suggests about 400 to 800 dollars. and some of those 400 dollar swords are things like "arming" swords (which i understand are probably what a long sword would be, more or less). which in D&D is more in the middle, not the lowest end (10 gp is for a short sword).

[BiPolar]

nah, you're thinking adventurer economy. more practically, things are going to be a lot less valuable for most people.

for example, you can buy a gallon of ale (call it roughly equivalent to a gallon of beer) for 2 silver. you can buy a loaf of bread for 2 cp. you can stay at a squalid inn for 7 cp a night.

now go ahead and try to match that up with a decent quality sword, no frills, costing between 10 and 25 gold, depending on model.

now, i don't know about costs where you are... but here i can buy a loaf of bread for about 2.50 (on "sale", but it goes on sale basically every week). which would theoretically place the value of 1 gp at 250 dollars. now, i am no sword expert, but i bet i could buy a functional sword for a lot less than 2500 dollars. a quick google search suggests about 400 to 800 dollars. and some of those 400 dollar swords are things like "arming" swords (which i understand are probably what a long sword would be, more or less). which in D&D is more in the middle, not the lowest end (10 gp is for a short sword).

Which is why i moved away from actual costs to the abstract of use>value. The pigments aren't there to be a money-making device, that's fairly clear in the language of the DMG. Combine that with the examples and you've got an item that is made to be useful and not to be a gp generating device.

And finally, he's said he has a strict DM. In the case of OP, the answer is NO.

[Vogonjeltz]

I currently am playing a 5E campaign with a pretty strict DM. Anyway, my wizard just got a Nolzur's Marvelous pigments. In the description for that item, it says 'nothing the pigments create can have a value of 25 gp or more.' My question is this: Do you think it would be within the rules to paint a platinum coin, seal the pot, paint more platinum coins, and so on to get 12,000 or so platinum coins?

Thanks,
Aldarin

I'd probably say you had to paint a scene of at least one square foot. So if you painted a pile of copper coins or 249 silver coins, you'd be fine, but it would require ~5-6 square foot worth of paint from one of the pots and the time required to do so plus collect the coins once created clearing the space to paint again.

Probably not woth the time and energy, plus I'd say the paint has much greater value than mere coins. It's a shame to be wasting some incredibly potent magic on trifles.

[PotatoGolem]

Why don't you just ask the DM, since this is a real game situation? If he's actually a strict DM I highly doubt he'll change his mind because strangers on the Internet say so

[Aldarin]

Why don't you just ask the DM, since this is a real game situation? If he's actually a strict DM I highly doubt he'll change his mind because strangers on the Internet say so

I apologise for my lack of clarity. I was asking the forum because I wanted to see if other people even thought it plausible. Since I last posted, I have spoken with my DM and he approved it. Thank all of you for your time. There is no further need to reply on this thread anymore.

[RickAllison]

I apologise for my lack of clarity. I was asking the forum because I wanted to see if other people even thought it plausible. Since I last posted, I have spoken with my DM and he approved it. Thank all of you for your time. There is no further need to reply on this thread anymore.

It was an enlightening thread about an item that isn't talked about much.

[Aldarin]

It was an enlightening thread about an item that isn't talked about much.

Yes, that was implied by my asking the question.

[gfishfunk]

I would allow it at a rate of one coin each day, takes 5-8 hours.

[BiPolar]

I apologise for my lack of clarity. I was asking the forum because I wanted to see if other people even thought it plausible. Since I last posted, I have spoken with my DM and he approved it. Thank all of you for your time. There is no further need to reply on this thread anymore.

Ha! Guess your DM isn't as strict as you thought he is :)