Wraiths' Daylight Powerlessness

[Yklikt]

Wraiths have the following trait:

Daylight Powerlessness (Ex)

Wraiths are utterly powerless in natural sunlight (not merely a daylight spell) and flee from it.

What does 'powerless' mean? The spectre has a similar trait, called Sunlight Powerlessness, which is similarly worded but has actual restrictions listed. I'm not really sure what to make of it.

[nyjastul69]

I'm not sure about the RAW here, but my table ruling would be that Sunlight and Daylight Powerlessness are equivalent.

[Florian]

Wraiths have the following trait:

Daylight Powerlessness (Ex)

Wraiths are utterly powerless in natural sunlight (not merely a daylight spell) and flee from it.

What does 'powerless' mean? The spectre has a similar trait, called Sunlight Powerlessness, which is similarly worded but has actual restrictions listed. I'm not really sure what to make of it.

As usual, stuff like that can be found in the Universal Monster rules section:

Sunlight Powerlessness (Ex) If the creature is in sunlight (but not in an area of daylight or similar spells), it cannot attack and is staggered.

[Jormengand]

As usual, stuff like that can be found in the Universal Monster rules section:

Sunlight Powerlessness (Ex) If the creature is in sunlight (but not in an area of daylight or similar spells), it cannot attack and is staggered.

The trouble is, Sunlight Powerlessness isn't the same thing as Daylight Powerlessness, though I would assume that it resolves the same way to prevent headaches.

[ganondorf50]

ok here is how it works direct quote "Sunlight Powerlessness" "Wraiths are powerless in natural sunlight, (not mearly a daylight spell) and they flee from it. A wraith caught in Direct Sunlight cannot attack and can take only a single standard or move action in a round.

MM pg 258

so either move or standard but no attacks in direct sunlight

[nyjastul69]

ok here is how it works direct quote "Sunlight Powerlessness" "Wraiths are powerless in natural sunlight, (not mearly a daylight spell) and they flee from it. A wraith caught in Direct Sunlight cannot attack and can take only a single standard or move action in a round.

MM pg 258

so either move or standard but no attacks in direct sunlight

Sunlight Powerlessness is very clear, Daylight Powerlessness is not as clear.

[ganondorf50]

Sunlight Powerlessness is very clear, Daylight Powerlessness is not as clear.

I disagree I would treat them the same unless you can cite a source. The source I quoted was direct from the wraith he was asking about. Also the Wraith Monster Specifically says Sunlight Powerlessness.

[Tanuki Tales]

I disagree I would treat them the same unless you can cite a source. The source I quoted was direct from the wraith he was asking about. Also the Wraith Monster Specifically says Sunlight Powerlessness.

No, it doesn't.

I just checked the SRD and cracked open my copy of the 3.5 MM and it's Daylight Powerlessness under both. Also, since it's specifically a trait with a different name, burden of proof is on you to prove they're the same thing with a cited source (such as errata).

I don't have my copy of the 3.0 MM on hand though to reference, but it is Sunlight Powerlessness in Pathfinder.

[torrasque666]

No, it doesn't.

I just checked the SRD and cracked open my copy of the 3.5 MM and it's Daylight Powerlessness under both. Also, since it's specifically a trait with a different name, burden of proof is on you to prove they're the same thing with a cited source (such as errata).

I don't have my copy of the 3.0 MM on hand though to reference, but it is Sunlight Powerlessness in Pathfinder.
Monster Manual 1, page 258 (2012 printing) states they have Sunlight Powerlessness. (http://i.imgur.com/UQDHeip.jpg?2) Or should I upload a small scan? Ah screw it. It was released in the SRD, I should be fine.

[LTwerewolf]

The new monster manual has it as sunlight powerlessness. It's not on the srd, it's not in the old monster manual, and it's not even in the eratta, but the change was made for consistent wording. I recall someone at a panel (a long time ago) saying originally the wraith would simply flee until it found a place that wasn't in direct sunlight. Everyone on both sides of the table thought it was not well thought out.

[Tanuki Tales]

Monster Manual 1, page 258 (2012 printing) states they have Sunlight Powerlessness. (http://i.imgur.com/UQDHeip.jpg?2) Or should I upload a small scan? Ah screw it. It was released in the SRD, I should be fine.

It is not on the SRD, but I'll concede that my copy of the MM 3.5 is from prior to 2012.

You think that's something they'd release in errata instead of including in a reprinting of the book that most 3.5 players probably wouldn't have a reason to purchase. It's not exactly a community that is spontaneously generating new groups wholesale instead of older players bringing new ones into the fold, so it's questionable how many people would buy a 2012 reprint if they already have one from when 3.5 was current.

[ericgrau]

Probably a simple oversight based on the assumption that they are the same thing. Also probably why it wasn't corrected.

If you want to be more strict about it, then don't let them attack nor let the Su abilities function. Which is almost the same minus the staggered condition. It's pretty hard to get either Su to function without an attack. The intent is probably that they are staggered as well, but at minimum it should do that.