Making an effective Spear using dex build

[ArendK]

So for once, a relatively basic concept has perplexed me how I would make it work. I cannot for the life of me find a way to make any of the spears dex based effective with pure Paizo content only. Can someone find a way to make a spear user effective with minimal strength?

[NamelessNPC]

The Elven branched spear is an exotic finesse weapon that's otherwise identical to the longspear. Elves consider it martial and gnomes can be proficient with any weapon they craft. You'd still need 13 STR for power attack though, unless you have another way to add significant dmg.
As an aside, what's the ruling on using agile weapons in 2 hands? Do you add 1.5 DEX to dmg?

[Slayer Lord]

What's wrong with house ruling that Weapon Finesse can be applied to spears? It seems like a fairly logical ruling to me. It takes a lot of coordination to master the spear.

[ArendK]

I try not to make my builds based off specific magical items (personal preference) as well as working RAW as to be able to drop it into any game as I move around a lot for work and usually have a variety of GM's.

That being said, the Agile enhancement does go well with the branched spear.

[Yanisa]

As an aside, what's the ruling on using agile weapons in 2 hands? Do you add 1.5 DEX to dmg?

Agile (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile)

... This modifier to damage is not increased for two-handed weapons, but is still reduced for off-hand weapons.

That's why I prefer unchained Rogue, which doesn't have this limitation. It's not stated outright that you can get 1.5 dex to damage, but it seems very logical when you replace strength with dexterity.

Also Half-Elf have a racial trait that allows them to be proficient in any weapon, which is great on the unchained rogue as it does not get access to martial weapons from the start.

[Geddy2112]

Three ranks in unchained rogue lets you pick a weapon that can be used with weapon finesse and give it dex to damage. It is slightly better than agile because it allows 1.5x dex damage for two handing the elven branched spear, while agile won't give you the bonus. Having sneak attack offsets a bit of the damage you lose by not having power attack, but getting 13 strength so you can get power attack is best.

Polearm master fighter is also a pretty good mesh with any spear build, since it lets you flank easily and get more raw damage.

Since it also has trip, you can get improved trip and greater improved trip for more shenanigans.

[Elder_Basilisk]

What do you mean by "a spear user" and what are your standards for effective?

If by spear user, you mean "a guy who uses a spear", just take a sorcerer, give him high dex and a longspear and you're good to go. Sure, his effectiveness is from casting spells, but he carries a spear around, doesn't he?

OK, you want to be an effective character and you want to occasionally hit things with a spear. Elf or half elf bard with high dex, weapon finesse, and an elven branch spear. Again, your primary contributions are through bard abilities, but thanks to inspire courage and the banner of the ancient kings you're hanging on the end of that longspear, your attacks sometimes count.

No, that's not good enough, you want to be a martial and contribute primarily by stabbing things with that spear, but you want to be dex based. Unchained elf rogue with an elven branch spear and weapon finesse. Even unchained rogue are terrible? I suppose you could combine a fighter archetype to wield your elven branch spear one-handed and then go swashbuckler the rest of the way. Or if you can swing early access to gloves of dueling (or start at higher level), you could try a weapon master fighter with elven branch spear, weapon finesse and the weapon master's handbook option/feat to double your weapon training damage bonus when you use dex for attack and strength for damage. Just keep a moderate strength (maybe starting 14) and maybe VMC cavalier for some challenge damage to stack on top of double your weapon training bonus. You're a fighter, but fighters are better than most playgrounders give them credit for and if you didn't like the sorcerer or bard, this is the kind of thing you're looking for.

[ArendK]

Agile (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile)


That's why I prefer unchained Rogue, which doesn't have this limitation. It's not stated outright that you can get 1.5 dex to damage, but it seems very logical when you replace strength with dexterity.

Also Half-Elf have a racial trait that allows them to be proficient in any weapon, which is great on the unchained rogue as it does not get access to martial weapons from the start.

I'm building a collection of characters specializing in different weapon types and fighting styles and trying to approach each one a little differently as to get a lot of variety in martial characters for different options of combat. Mostly fighters, brawlers, and swashbucklers have been my go to class to get the options I want. I never even thought of the unchained rogue for an option for this.

What I went with (5th level build, 20 pt buy mind you) for the spear user in the end was half-elf fighter (lore warden) 5 with finesse, Spear Dancing style, W. Focus, W. Spec, Dodge, TWF, and Dodge (Combat Expertise being a freebie).

I'm working on a sansetsukon build now, and I'm thinking a halforc. Not sure why, but that's what pops into my head even though I KNOW the half-elf is better mechanically.

[Manyasone]

Take the three "spear dancing" style feats from Paizo's Weapon master handbook, if you want to be a martial spear user. Be warned that it comes with a heavy feat investment.
If allowed, use Piercing Thunder maneuvers from PoW: Expanded to flesh it out

[AZGrowler]

If you go Elf, and Unchained Rogue for two levels, one level of Slayer or Ranger, one more level of Unchained Rogue, and the rest in Slayer or Ranger, you can get Dex-to-Damage with your spear, and use the two-handed weapon Ranger combat style to pick up Power Attack without needing the 13 Str. You'd only be one BAB lower than a straight Fighter, but you wouldn't need as much Str to work. If all you wanted was the Power Attack, you could branch out into another class after the second Ranger/Slayer level.

[Psyren]

Shortspear + Effortless Lace (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/specific-magic-weapons/effortless-lace) + Agile + Weapon Finesse = Dex to attack and damage for only one feat on nearly any class. Grab a second one and you can TWF and/or Piranha Strike.

[charcoalninja]

Isn't there an advanced Fighter Weapon Talant that allow you to use Dex on anything you want?