Forced Geas?

[gogogome]

Due to the 1 hour casting time and the language-dependent descriptor, I've been having all of my geas-victims plug their ears (this is planar binding related). But now one of my players are getting kind of angry at this.

So in order to do him a favor, I am posting this thread.

What are some ways a planar bound creature can be forced to receive a geas?

One person suggested Telepathic Bond, and claimed it cannot be refused as it is a no-save spell, and there is no mention of volunteering requirement. Can telepathic bond work offensively like this?

I know limited wish works but I'm looking for alternative methods that don't cost xp. Also, party is only level 11.

[Troacctid]

Suggestion. Charm Monster. Hypnotism. Other compulsion effects, basically.

You can also use Sleight of Hand to conceal your spellcasting from the target. The False Theurgy and Conceal Spellcasting skill tricks are handy in this regard. If you're a Bard, you can use Disguise Spell to disguise it as a performance; this is probably best combined with a Bluff check. ("Wherefore hast thou called me, mortal?" "I just thought you might want to hear me perform the entire first act of Legally Blonde: The Musical." "Ooh, yes, I love that show!")

[gogogome]

Suggestion. Charm Monster. Hypnotism. Other compulsion effects, basically.

IIRC this forum had multiple major debates about whether suggestion or charm can force a creature to receive a geas, and the deciding factor was like a word in RAW.

IIRC the best suggestion for this was something like "It'd be really fun to be bound/geased to an adventurer! You will have no choice but to encounter exciting stuff"

[LTwerewolf]

Nothing about the geas spell requires them to listen. They're stuck. The lesser version has a save for a reason. The longer version, so long as they stay there for the required time, there's not even a save. The target is one living creature, not one willing creature.

[Zanos]

IIRC, the rules for earplugs are that they give you a +2 bonus on saves vs sonic effects and those with the language descriptor.

If you want to make yourself immune to language descriptors spells, you'd need to completely disable your ability to hear, like breaking your own eardrums.

[Troacctid]

IIRC this forum had multiple major debates about whether suggestion or charm can force a creature to receive a geas, and the deciding factor was like a word in RAW.

IIRC the best suggestion for this was something like "It'd be really fun to be bound/geased to an adventurer! You will have no choice but to encounter exciting stuff"

I was thinking something along the lines of "Just sit quietly, don't worry, and don't resist—this won't take long, and then we'll let you out of the circle, okay?" But yes, assuming you can make it sound reasonable.

Charm shouldn't be any problem, since even if they fight you on it, you can use an opposed Charisma check to compel them to do what you want. Of course, if you can make an opposed Charisma check, you probably don't need to charm them in the first place, but hey.

[Crake]

Nothing about the geas spell requires them to listen.

You'd be wrong there, the fact that it has the [Language-Dependant] tag means that a) the target must be able to hear you, and b) the target must be able to understand you.

As a solution, personally I wouldn't allow this, but TECHNICALLY uncanny forethought allows you to cast geas as a full round action.

[LTwerewolf]

Writing and/or telepathy. If they remove any way for them to perceive the outside world, geas won't be necessary since it opens things up for all manner of other things you can do to them.

[Malroth]

There are two ways to go about calling creatures both supported by the rules,
The first is to bargian untill a mutually agreeable arrangement can be made, gifts are presented and the summoner behaves with the respect the outsider believes it is due. This is the more difficult route as most outsiders have tremendous Egos and are excellent bargainers. However most of these summonings end in a fairly amicable parting between the parties and it is often quite possible to again call on the same creature for different services in the future.

The second way to sucessfully call an outsider is to use overwhelming force combining anthithetical substances, Curses, Geasses, Charms, Necrotic Cysts, Negative Levels to break down the will or the ability of the summoned creature to fight back untill they agree to the terms without reward, This is actually the safer method in the short run, But in doing so you gain an uncontable number of immortal enemies every time you do so, once the summoned creature's time is up, revenge over a percieved mistreatment or insult will likely consume it's thoughts for centuries to come and do note that your contracts and geass might protect you from the summons revenge during it's term of service but those stipulations do not apply to any being summoned by the creature itself or brought under it's influence via outside magics.

[Troacctid]

The other problem with forcing a geas on someone is that the subject is likely to do everything they can to undermine you. Geas isn't dominate--it doesn't give you direct control over the subject's actions. So if they see a chance to screw you over, there's a very good chance they'll take it.

On the other hand, if you bargain in good faith, that's probably not going to be a problem. The entity you called agreed to the service in exchange for fair payment, so you can be reasonably assured that they will see it through.

[magicalmagicman]

Contingency + Geas. Contingency triggers as soon as the creature is called and places the geas on the called reature.

[gogogome]

Contingency + Geas. Contingency triggers as soon as the creature is called and places the geas on the called reature.

Doesn't language dependent part of the spell make this combo fail? afaik contingency casts geas silently and instantly, ergo no language.

[InvisibleBison]

Contingency + Geas. Contingency triggers as soon as the creature is called and places the geas on the called reature.

This won't work. Contingency can only cast spells on you.

[magicalmagicman]

This won't work. Contingency can only cast spells on you.

Oh you're right. Wow a lot of my plays are also illegal...

[Psyren]

Use the Charisma check from the binding itself to force them to keep their hands at their sides. Then apply the Geas.

But really, this goes back to all the "foolproof binding" CharOp tricks - these are generally intelligent and nigh-immortal outsiders with their own motivations, allegiances, and internecine politics long before you came along. If you're a powerful enough mage to kidnap one of these creatures for an extended period of time and force it into indentured servitude, then by all means go for it. But it seems to me that expecting such activities to be wholly without risk or reprisal is naive at best. And if it were truly that easy, then I would ask the simple question of why every single mage capable of binding something isn't strolling around with a geased cohort as a class feature.