A-Game Monk

[ATHATH]

Inspired by the A-Game Paladin, I am currently trying to make an A-Game Monk (Straight Monk 20 with ACF's and substitution levels allowed). Here is what I have so far:

Race: Skarn
Alignment: LN
Class: Durable Sacred Strike Holy Monk Wild Monk 2/Broken One 1/Wild Monk 1/Planar Monk 1/Wild Monk 1/Dark Moon Disciple 1/Wild Monk 2/Skarn Monk 1/Wild Monk 10

I need help with the feats, stats, and templates (up to LA +2). Does the Playground have any suggestions?

[Aegis013]

Only suggestion is if there's room for the feats or if you can find three actually worthwhile exalted feats (good luck) for the prerequisite, Saint template is quite strong for +2 LA.

[Venger]

Inspired by the A-Game Paladin, I am currently trying to make an A-Game Monk (Straight Monk 20 with ACF's and substitution levels allowed). Here is what I have so far:

Race: Skarn
Alignment: LN
Class: Durable Sacred Strike Holy Monk Wild Monk 2/Broken One 1/Wild Monk 1/Planar Monk 1/Wild Monk 1/Dark Moon Disciple 1/Wild Monk 2/Skarn Monk 1/Wild Monk 10

I need help with the feats, stats, and templates (up to LA +2). Does the Playground have any suggestions?

the way you have your levels laid out is confusing to me. could you maybe say which acf(s) you're taking at each level, level by level, so we can see what your setup looks like?

Here's what I'd do:

Roll halfling.

1 hin disciple (underfoot combat as bonus feat)
decisive strike for flurry of misses
2 hin disciple (combat reflexes as bonus feat)
invisible fist (turn invisible as swift 1/3 rounds for evasion)
3 dark moon disciple (darkvision 60 for still mind)
4 normal
5 planar monk (energy resistance for wholeness of body)
6 normal pick imptrip as vanilla bonus feat
7 dark moon disciple (total concealment in all but daylight for wholeness of body)
8 normal
9 hin disciple (the harder they fall: allies get free attacks vs anyone you trip for imp evasion)
take confound the big folk as your real feat
10 normal
11 normal
12 dark moon disciple (shadow dimdoor for abundant step)
13 -20 normal

you'll notice after level 13 or so, monk acfs peter out. they didn't think you'd take that many levels of monk.

this build lets you trip everyone mercilessly and you're basically impossible to target or even really see.

skulk around, trip people, and kick 'em when they're down.

[Malroth]

Here I was expecting Someone to play a warforged and use the "whole body counts as a manufactured weapon" clause to give yourself weapon and armor enchantments.

[Venger]

Here I was expecting Someone to play a warforged and use the "whole body counts as a manufactured weapon" clause to give yourself weapon and armor enchantments.

Unfortunately that precludes hin disciple.

[Sahleb]

There really isn't much point to the last 8 levels of monk. And you can't really ACF out of the suck either. One option would be to pick up Ur Priest levels. Two feats should be affordable. Hell, even cleric 1 doesn't suck - that way you get to have fun with Travel Devotion.

The A-Game paladin heavily relied on wizard spells to carry the higher levels. As a monk, you don't quite have that going for you.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Emperor Tippy had a challenge a while back that you may find to be of use. It was quite entertaining to read.

Tippy's Terrifically Terrible Trial (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?285801-Tippy-s-Terrifically-Terrible-Trial)

[Troacctid]

Here I was expecting Someone to play a warforged and use the "whole body counts as a manufactured weapon" clause to give yourself weapon and armor enchantments.

I'm not aware of any such clause. Don't see a reason why you'd need one, either, since Warforged can already magically enhance their composite plating and incorporate magic weapons as components, yeah?

[Kelvarius]

Only suggestion is if there's room for the feats or if you can find three actually worthwhile exalted feats (good luck) for the prerequisite, Saint template is quite strong for +2 LA.

The Alignment is LN, so I doubt that would allow for the Saint template.

But if that were to change, Sacred Vow followed by Vow of Poverty would make two great ones. They'll pay for themselves in bonus Exalted Feats, plus as monks don't use weapons/armor, anyways, it's an even better improvement. Although losing out on all the other magic gear kinda sucks.

[Jormengand]

I'm not aware of any such clause. Don't see a reason why you'd need one, either, since Warforged can already magically enhance their composite plating and incorporate magic weapons as components, yeah?

I think they mean how a monk's entire body is their UAS and their UAS is treated as a manufactured weapon.

[AvatarVecna]

The Alignment is LN, so I doubt that would allow for the Saint template.

But if that were to change, Sacred Vow followed by Vow of Poverty would make two great ones. They'll pay for themselves in bonus Exalted Feats, plus as monks don't use weapons/armor, anyways, it's an even better improvement. Although losing out on all the other magic gear kinda sucks.

Vow of Poverty Monk is not exactly a good idea: Monks are incredibly item dependent, and the pile of Exalted feats loses its draw once you've taken the two really good ones (Nymph's Kiss and Touch Of Golden Ice), with the rest being decent at best and crap at worst. Mind you, if there's any Monk that should be able to somehow make VoP work, it would be an A-Game Monk build (which is already having to get around the whole "Monks suck" thing, so getting around "VoP Monks suck harder" shouldn't require too much more effort).

[Hamste]

The Alignment is LN, so I doubt that would allow for the Saint template.

But if that were to change, Sacred Vow followed by Vow of Poverty would make two great ones. They'll pay for themselves in bonus Exalted Feats, plus as monks don't use weapons/armor, anyways, it's an even better improvement. Although losing out on all the other magic gear kinda sucks.

You have fallen into the monk's trap. It looks good because you don't care about not having a weapon or armor but Vow of poverty is actually horrible on a monk because they have no way to cover the vast majority of their basic needs without out side help. Flight, ranged attacks, miss chances, immunity to mind affecting spells, immunity to grapple, stun negation, fear immunity, true seeing and immunity to death effects are all quite important late game and while Monk and VoP gives major resistances to some of these the vast majority either needs to come from items or you need a friendly spell caster helping you out

[ShurikVch]

Race: Skarn
Alignment: LN
Class: Durable Sacred Strike Holy Monk Wild Monk 2/Broken One 1/Wild Monk 1/Planar Monk 1/Wild Monk 1/Dark Moon Disciple 1/Wild Monk 2/Skarn Monk 1/Wild Monk 10Unfortunately, this build is illegal: Broken Ones have Ilmater as a patron deity; Monks of the Dark Moon - Shar


Here's what I'd do:

Roll halfling.

1 hin disciple (underfoot combat as bonus feat)
decisive strike for flurry of misses
2 hin disciple (combat reflexes as bonus feat)
invisible fist (turn invisible as swift 1/3 rounds for evasion)
3 dark moon disciple (darkvision 60 for still mind)
4 normal
5 planar monk (energy resistance for wholeness of body)
6 normal pick imptrip as vanilla bonus feat
7 dark moon disciple (total concealment in all but daylight for wholeness of body)
8 normal
9 hin disciple (the harder they fall: allies get free attacks vs anyone you trip for imp evasion)
take confound the big folk as your real feat
10 normal
11 normal
12 dark moon disciple (shadow dimdoor for abundant step)
13 -20 normalOnce again - illegal.
Hin Fist dedicated to Yondalla, Monks of the Dark Moon - Shar.
Also, do you really expect to actually trip somebody with your -5 to trip (-4 for Small size, and -1 for Str penalty)?

Here I was expecting Someone to play a warforged and use the "whole body counts as a manufactured weapon" clause to give yourself weapon and armor enchantments.No need for Warforged - Monk of any race can do it:
A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons (such as the magic fang and magic weapon spells).

[ATHATH]

Is there any clause that says that I can't start out worshipping Ilmater, switch to worshipping Shar, then switch again to worshipping a deity that lets me Smite Evil instead of Good? From what I can tell, those substitution levels don't lose their special abilities when you switch deities.

[ShurikVch]

Is there any clause that says that I can't start out worshipping Ilmater, switch to worshipping Shar, then switch again to worshipping a deity that lets me Smite Evil instead of Good? From what I can tell, those substitution levels don't lose their special abilities when you switch deities.1) By doing so, you put your character at risk of becoming the false (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/False).
2) What kind of good deity will take certified betrayer?

[SangoProduction]

1) By doing so, you put your character at risk of becoming the false (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/False).
2) What kind of good deity will take certified betrayer?

Why not just worship both?

[Malimar]

3.5's default assumption is that you have one and only one patron deity (unless you're in Eberron and worshipping the Sovereign Host or the Dark Six), but is that codified in the rules anywhere? I've played many games with many characters who worship multiple deities -- is opening up that possibility a house rule?

[JNAProductions]

I see nothing wrong with it, assuming they're related deities. Sun and moon deities, or several good deities, for instance.

Or at least unopposed. Pelor and Ioun, for instance. But not Corellon and Gruumsh.

[Jormengand]

You may have a patron deity, but nothing lets you have multiple ones. PHB 106.

[ATHATH]

You may have a patron deity, but nothing lets you have multiple ones. PHB 106.
Aren't there rules for changing your deity, though?

[Troacctid]

Aren't there rules for changing your deity, though?
Yes, Player's Handbook II allows a Cleric to change patron deities by doing a special quest. It's also possible to venerate a pantheon, but IIRC, in the Forgotten Realms cosmology, only one deity can be your patron, even if you also pray to others.


I think they mean how a monk's entire body is their UAS and their UAS is treated as a manufactured weapon.
I'm not aware of any rule that says a monk's entire body is their unarmed strike. Citation?

[ShurikVch]

Why not just worship both?Incompatible alignment requirements.
Worshipers of Ilmater and Yondalla should be LG, NG, or CN; Shar - LE, NE, or CE

[Malimar]

Incompatible alignment requirements.
Worshipers of Ilmater and Yondalla should be LG, NG, or CN; Shar - LE, NE, or CE

Only applies to Clerics and Favored Souls. Characters who aren't getting divine magic from their patrons can worship any alignment of god they want.


I'm not aware of any rule that says a monk's entire body is their unarmed strike. Citation?


A monk's attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full.

[Troacctid]

A monk's attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full.
Looks to me like according to this rule, only fists, elbows, knees, and/or feet can be used for a monk's unarmed strikes. That's a far cry from "the whole body."

[Malimar]

Looks to me like according to this rule, only fists, elbows, knees, and/or feet can be used for a monk's unarmed strikes. That's a far cry from "the whole body."

Very true. I don't know if there are other citations for the "whole body" thing elsewhere -- if not, it's pretty weak. (Also it's interesting that monks are not allowed to headbutt their enemies.)

[Grod_The_Giant]

Wild Monk alone should take you pretty far. Optimize for that.

[Kelvarius]

...and the pile of Exalted feats loses its draw once you've taken the two really good ones (Nymph's Kiss and Touch Of Golden Ice), with the rest being decent at best and crap at worst.

At least until the Dark Chaos Shuffle kicks in. But you're right. It would be terrible for leveling purposes. I was only offering suggestions for the Saint template if that was what the OP was interested in.

[ATHATH]

At least until the Dark Chaos Shuffle kicks in. But you're right. It would be terrible for leveling purposes. I was only offering suggestions for the Saint template if that was what the OP was interested in.
Unfortunately, Wild Monk requires you to be LN.