Oops I Accidentally the Adventure's League (Spoilers for Curse of Strahd)

[TheRedTemplar]

So, Curse of Strahd. Very good module. Dark, scary, etc.

I've recently done a run-through at my local game store for the AL that ended very shortly (just 5 sessions!) after my players happened to find a certain item. That item would happen to be a Luck Blade.

Yes, you read that right. The good ol' Wish-On-A-Stick is actually in Ravenloft. Not only that, the type of sword isn't actually defined, leaving it up to the DM (I made it a Shortsword, since the Party Monk found it and had dibs due to less magic items).

Now granted, they rather foolishly wished for Strahd's destruction, and as one would imagine that had predicable results. Specifically, the book mentions that if someone tries to use it for that, it instead teleports Strahd to within 5 feet of the blade.

He promptly killed them all.

So, granted, at my table it ended in a TPK. But that still leaves us with the fact that a Luck Blade, and more importantly a free Wish, is up for grabs in the Adventures League. Granted, it's already been clarified that the Wish cannot be used to change any pre-existing rules or alterations in the Adventure's League (you can't Wish to be an Aasimar without the Cert, use the Wish as a rebuild, etc), but that also doesn't seem to take into account those particularly crafter players who know exactly how to use a Wish. For example a friend of mine, upon being told he couldn't wish to be an Aasimar and had to wish for something else (the DM gave him a freebie on that one since he couldn't have know the AL forbid it), instead wished to be 'a normal human like I currently am, but with resistance to necrotic and radiant damage, and the power to innately cast light at-will and lesser restoration/daylight once per long rest': in other words, the Aasimar's racial traits.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, how would you guys play out a situation like this? If you were a DM, how would you handle someone making a wish? If you were a player, what would you wish for? No errata has been made for CoS yet and only time will tell if any limits on the Wish spell are placed, but seeing as how the AL is build on the Honor System anyways and the errata for OotA didn't change the Maze Engine, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that there are any limits on what you can wish for aside from what was stated above (the whole 'no defying any actual player character creation rules for the AL via wish' thing, and even that can be worked around if you're clever enough).

I'd probably wish for a "I-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-An-Aasimar", since I've really wanted to play one of those. Well, either that or a Holy Avenger. What about y'all?

[Envyus]

Why would Strahd kill them. His goal in the Adventure that early on is to test them to see if they are worthy of succeeding him. He's supposed to knock them around for a few rounds then reatreat.

[RickAllison]

Why would Strahd kill them. His goal in the Adventure that early on is to test them to see if they are worthy of succeeding him. He's supposed to knock them around for a few rounds then reatreat.

Indeed, but by trying to solve the problem by wishing they proved unworthy. Guess he will have to pick up another band of intrepid adventurers.

[TheRedTemplar]

Why would Strahd kill them. His goal in the Adventure that early on is to test them to see if they are worthy of succeeding him. He's supposed to knock them around for a few rounds then reatreat.

Normally, you would be right, but three things were special in this case:


They'd snuck into Castle Ravenloft way too early, and were a fairly low level, thus being unworthy to challenge him. They also did this specifically to ignore the NPC's who asked them for help. (this is important mostly because the Luck Blade is found in Castle Ravenloft itself, and they kept using Portent, Enhance Ability, Invisibility and the like to cheese their stealth checks).
They were totally trashing his mansion and goofing around instead of looking for one of two items that could help them defeat Strahd, showing they weren't taking him, his realm, or the entire situation seriously at all.
By trying to just Wish for his destruction they proved they were extremely lazy and not really willing to go through the effort to challenge him seriously, only managing to make themselves look inept and waste a wish.



That, combined with the fact that the party actually had the balls to mock him to his face only to run away screaming the next round, just resulted in Strahd basically going "Alright you know what screw it, if you're not going to take this seriously, I'm done" and showing them why he's known as the Dark Lord.

I don't think Strahd would take disrespect from such egotistical morons. I actually told the players he was so disgusted with them he burned their bodies so they wouldn't get raised, just so he could enjoy watching their souls go totally insane.

I think we've all learned a valuable lesson from this: don't go out of your way to show Strahd why he should kill you. He'll gladly show you just how easily he can.

[BurgerBeast]

Normally, you would be right, but three things were special in this case:


They'd snuck into Castle Ravenloft way too early, and were a fairly low level, thus being unworthy to challenge him. They also did this specifically to ignore the NPC's who asked them for help. (this is important mostly because the Luck Blade is found in Castle Ravenloft itself, and they kept using Portent, Enhance Ability, Invisibility and the like to cheese their stealth checks).
They were totally trashing his mansion and goofing around instead of looking for one of two items that could help them defeat Strahd, showing they weren't taking him, his realm, or the entire situation seriously at all.
By trying to just Wish for his destruction they proved they were extremely lazy and not really willing to go through the effort to challenge him seriously, only managing to make themselves look inept and waste a wish.



That, combined with the fact that the party actually had the balls to mock him to his face only to run away screaming the next round, just resulted in Strahd basically going "Alright you know what screw it, if you're not going to take this seriously, I'm done" and showing them why he's known as the Dark Lord.

I don't think Strahd would take disrespect from such egotistical morons. I actually told the players he was so disgusted with them he burned their bodies so they wouldn't get raised, just so he could enjoy watching their souls go totally insane.

I think we've all learned a valuable lesson from this: don't go out of your way to show Strahd why he should kill you. He'll gladly show you just how easily he can.

I was prepared to hear your defense and give you the benefit of the doubt. It seems fine to me that Strand would kill them. But in reading your post, I'm left with the impression that Strahd's behaviour and justification are largely just your feelings being projected onto him. It sounds an awful lot like you'd had enough of them and decided to teach them a lesson.

[RickAllison]

I was prepared to hear your defense and give you the benefit of the doubt. It seems fine to me that Strand would kill them. But in reading your post, I'm left with the impression that Strahd's behaviour and justification are largely just your feelings being projected onto him. It sounds an awful lot like you'd had enough of them and decided to teach them a lesson.

Think about it this way: he yanked them out of another realm, created elaborate traps to test them (which they ignored), gave them the freedom to travel about his realm with the idea they would prove worthy, and they try to Wish him away. After all his planning, all the work he put into the plan to see if they merited his throne, they try and take the easy way out. Based on what Strahd was doing there, he was a DM. TheRedTemplar doesn't need to project, Strahd would be even more furious because this likely isn't his first attempt.

Before you get high and mighty, keep in mind what the character feels as well.

[BurgerBeast]

Think about it this way: he yanked them out of another realm, created elaborate traps to test them (which they ignored), gave them the freedom to travel about his realm with the idea they would prove worthy, and they try to Wish him away. After all his planning, all the work he put into the plan to see if they merited his throne, they try and take the easy way out. Based on what Strahd was doing there, he was a DM. TheRedTemplar doesn't need to project, Strahd would be even more furious because this likely isn't his first attempt.

Before you get high and mighty, keep in mind what the character feels as well.

I tried to couch my language and show my intent the whole way, so there was no high and mighty involved. On top of that, I admit a pretty big lack of knowledge about the module.

Does Strand know everything that the party does, and does he know that he was summoned by a wish?

Before the OP gave his answer, I was going to say just the fact that they inconvenienced him by summoning him would be justification enough for killing him. But all of the stuff about "being too low level" and "using cheese" and "goofing around"... these are players in D&D. Is it wrong to make decisions, use the tools available the best you can, and [edit "good goof] around"? Does Strand know all of this and how does it play against his plan?

I just think that if the adventure is designed so the players can go straight to the castle, then it's hard to fault them for doing that. If a wish lands in their lap, and their overarching goal is to defeat Strahd... it seems pretty logical that they'd try to put it to use.

[djreynolds]

We barely survived the death house, just looking for a tavern to rest. TPK is a real threat in this world, my cleric got knocked out in the first round, shambling mound CR5. Have extra healers. Really necessary at low levels. Spare the dying is a good cantrip to have handy, especially for the life cleric who just got blasted into a wall.

With the milestone leveling it is tough to tell how tough you are.

[coredump]

Wow, this thread derailed immediately....

As for the actual thread topic; as DM I would not allow it. The wish spell gives some pretty good guidelines as to what strength the spell is meant to be, and that list is just too much. Plus, it isn't asking for one thing, it is asking for 4-5 things. One wish does not mean a list of things you want.

I might be okay to any one of those, but not the entire list.

[Firechanter]

I would have wished to be back home, in my own world. Would that work or dies the module forbid this as well?

[Coffee_Dragon]

wished to be 'a normal human like I currently am, but with resistance to necrotic and radiant damage, and the power to innately cast light at-will and lesser restoration/daylight once per long rest'

How was this phrased in-game to make it a single wish using concepts that make sense to the character?

[goto124]

Based on what Strahd was doing there, he was a DM.

That explains a lot!


I would have wished to be back home, in my own world. Would that work or does the module forbid this as well?

Wouldn't that put you out of play?

[JellyPooga]

How was this phrased in-game to make it a single wish using concepts that make sense to the character?

Yeah, I'm thinking along these sort of lines myself. "I wish to have the abilities of an Aasimar, but not be an Aasimar because I've never heard of them and they don't exist" is a pretty weak and metagame Wish. It certainly wouldn't fly at my table.

Wishes to "be infused with divine power" or "for magical abilities" would be interpreted appropriately, but fall well outside the "normal" use of the spell and should come with hard caveats and/or insidious consequences. The in-character wording is definitely key (as the Coffee Dragon implies).

[Firechanter]

Wouldn't that put you out of play?

Yes, I suppose. But for all I know about Ravenloft, the only winning move is not to play. Moreover, I can't think of a plausible reason why my _character_ would ever pass on this chance to escape almost inevitable death in a foreign, extremely hostile dimension and return to the (relative) safety of his home.

[RulesJD]

1. They did use their Wish, it just didn't work out how they planned. The blade no longer has any charges of Luck left to use.

2. Even if it did, the DM is permitted to mess with the player. Normal human but with those traits? Fine, you're a Commoner with Commoner stats in addition to what you wished for. Have fun with 10 in every ability.

[BladeWing81]

I think the TPK was a bit much, why not knock them out and send them to the dungeon with no items except maybe a couple of daggers lying around so that they can escape through a sewer (getting back their equipment is up to you).
you wanted to punish your players because they we'rent taking it seriously for your standards, but you got to remember that this is just a game and they're supposed to have fun. they made a mistake I guess but you basically got mad, did a tantrum and took your ball away so no one can play anymore. congratulations, you prove to a group of people to never play with you again.

[Oramac]

Portent


Ahh, so much fun! My current Strahd party is 4 Halfling Divination Wizards with the Lucky Feat, and a Halfling Bard, also with Lucky Feat. We got Portents and re-rolls for days. Pretty sure we're going to die a fiery death after driving the DM nuts as well.

Though admittedly 1st level was brutal. Half the party ended up with gills. haha.

As for the Luck Blade, I haven't seen that yet, so I really don't have anything useful to say about it. :(

[RulesJD]

For to mention, but what do you mean by "low level"?

Because if they're level 4 or lower, TPK them all day long. They just have to keep accepting Dark Gifts and they're good to go.

[RickAllison]

I think the TPK was a bit much, why not knock them out and send them to the dungeon with no items except maybe a couple of daggers lying around so that they can escape through a sewer (getting back their equipment is up to you).
you wanted to punish your players because they we'rent taking it seriously for your standards, but you got to remember that this is just a game and they're supposed to have fun. they made a mistake I guess but you basically got mad, did a tantrum and took your ball away so no one can play anymore. congratulations, you prove to a group of people to never play with you again.

Have you ever heard the phrase "Don't poke the bear"? Well a vampire who has kept an entire sub-realm under his thumb is a pretty big bear to poke. If that Luck Blade is there, it is at his whim, I don't find it hard to believe at all that he would have tampered with it so it cannot harm him. It is a trap to test the PCs, but this party failed. Maybe he was projecting his annoyance, but it makes perfect sense for Strahd to kill off such insolent vermin.

[Hrugner]

Here's what I've done.
The wording of a wish absolutely needs to be in character and not refer to specific game mechanics and game terms.
You get one wish, you can't string several wishes together with "and".
Basically, if they've tried to get more than one wish, or wished for something mechanically specific, they probably messed up.

[busterswd]

I could see Strahd having a few reactions to the party; killing them for their insolence is fine, but this isn't his first adventuring party, so I doubt he'd actually be *pissed* or have something to prove to them. The grave in Barovia is evidence of quite a few upstarts he's experienced before.


I would have wished to be back home, in my own world. Would that work or does the module forbid this as well?

Module forbids teleporting out through just about any means.

[HoarsHalberd]

Here's what I've done.
The wording of a wish absolutely needs to be in character and not refer to specific game mechanics and game terms.
You get one wish, you can't string several wishes together with "and".
Basically, if they've tried to get more than one wish, or wished for something mechanically specific, they probably messed up.

Of course the aforementioned Necro/radiant resist etc etc could be done fairly reliably with: "I wish for the innate abilities of an Aasimar on top of what I already have." But even then a DM who didn't like it would just have an Aasimar land on top of your equipment. Wish is one of those things where it is almost never worth it with most DMs as it brings out the antag in all of us.

[JellyPooga]

Of course the aforementioned Necro/radiant resist etc etc could be done fairly reliably with: "I wish for the innate abilities of an Aasimar on top of what I already have."

Assuming the character knows what an Aasimar is, this is still unlikely to come up with the desired result. For example; if we substitute "Aasimar" for "Frog", what "innate abilities" are you talking about? The fact that it's amphibious? That it has strong jumping abilities for its size/weight? That it has googly eyes? No teeth? Is dependent on water to survive? Was once a tadpole? Which Aasimar traits are you looking for?

Aasimar are sentient beings too; that produces even greater variety. Which Aasimar are you talking about? Lord Fortleroy of Celestia, ruler of a heavenly domain, or Jimbob Smith the peasant farmer whose great-grandfather happened to be angelic? Lord Fortleroy is a high level adventurer with many "innate" abilities. Jimbob doesn't have quite so many.

Your example of Wishing is nowhere near specific enough to guarantee the result you desire.

[TheRedTemplar]

well i guess it didn't take long for this thread to be totally derailed. Might as well answer a few Q's then.


Does Strand know everything that the party does, and does he know that he was summoned by a wish?

Yes, he does. He watches the party as well as the entire realm, and knows everything they're doing. If a place is protected or shielded from his influence, his network of spies and allies allows him to gain good insight for that location as well; the point of which is to make the players feel oppressed and helpless in the dark lord's power. And considering they were inside his own castle, he knew immediately that they tried to wish him out of existence before he was summoned by it.

Think of it like this: Lets say you're an extremely powerful Vampire Lord, and you want to test a band of adventurers to see if they were worthy to become your successor. You've laid around elaborate traps, you give them total free reign to travel all over your realm, and you've even appeared before them in person and tossed them around for a few rounds before telling them to come back and fight you when they're stronger. They instead ignore all your traps, head straight to your castle despite what common sense would dictate, and totally ignore the clues to the Sunsword and Holy Symbol.

Strahd didn't kill them because they weren't taking him seriously or disrespecting his realm (its not like these guys are the first to treat him like a joke, after all), Strahd killed them because they kept failing each and every test he put before them. I imagine the Dark Lord was more or less thinking "*sigh* Another group of idiots. Well, might as well wait for another party." And you have to admit, even if Strahd's not really angry or impressed by them (it'd be highly improbable for them to be the first party to act like this, after all), it'd probably be extremely cathartic to kill a bunch of egotistical morons yourself.

Welcome to Barovia, everyone.


I would have wished to be back home, in my own world. Would that work or does the module forbid this as well?

Not only does the module forbid it, the rules for the Adventure's League for Season 4 explicitly forbid it as well. it even specifically calls out Wish in the ALDMG to drive home the point of how strong his hold on the plane in; once you go in, you don't come out until Senor Vampiro's dead. However, because not all players might be familiar with this, I would give them a freebie and tell them that the AL rules forbid them from allowing the use of Wish for escape, and tell them to pick something else. I think it'd be unfair to have them waste it on something completely reasonable when not many people would know the ruling.

If any of you think I'm being a hypocrite by logic of 'Wishing for Strahd's death is also completely reasonable', well, I think it'd be reasonable to expect the party to know the Dark Powers (who are granting the wish) wouldn't let them get away with that.


How was this phrased in-game to make it a single wish using concepts that make sense to the character?

If you're referring to the pal of mine who tried to cheap out the single Wish by stringing the Aasimar's traits together with a bunch of "and I want this and I want this and-", I wasn't DMing the session or even present for it, so I don't know exactly how he phrased it. However, I do know that the DM totally screwed him on what he asked for, which was to be expected (this is Wish, after all). That being, he lost all his previous racial traits (his new abilities overtook his old ones), had disadvantage on all persuasion, performance and deception rolls (since he wasn't technically any known race, and he had some odd magic coming from him, everyone around him found his very existence extremely unsettling, disturbing, and just plain wrong), and his Charisma dropped to 1 (for the same reasons previously listed).

Normally that wouldn't be too big a deal, but he was a Half-Aquatic Elf Swashbuckler/Sorcerer, so it forced him to drop the second class (since he could no longer qualify), removed his Fey Ancestry trait, and turned Rakish Audacity from a solid boost into "Enjoy your -5 to Initiative!" Also, he forgot how to swim.

Again, I wasn't even present at that session, so I had nothing to do with that Wish (which honestly I think the backlash for was overly harsh). That's just what my friend tried to do.


"I wish to have the abilities of an Aasimar, but not be an Aasimar because I've never heard of them and they don't exist" is a pretty weak and metagame Wish. It certainly wouldn't fly at my table.


Here's what I've done.
The wording of a wish absolutely needs to be in character and not refer to specific game mechanics and game terms.
You get one wish, you can't string several wishes together with "and".
Basically, if they've tried to get more than one wish, or wished for something mechanically specific, they probably messed up.

That'd probably be the reason why the DM screwed him so badly on it.

Really, if you try to wish for anything outside of the list in the PHB, you're probably going to waste it at best or totally screw yourself over at worst. If I wanted to make an "Aasimar-Lite" character, I'd use it to give us Necrotic Resistance ("You grant up to ten creatures that you can see resistance to a damage type you choose", PHB; page 289), and then wait until I can cast Wish myself to do the same thing for Radiant Resistance (Arcane Clerics, amirite?).

Since using Wish to give resistance to a single damage type you choose for up to 10 guys you like (including yourself) is one of the 6 Wishes that are untwistable (as shown above), I don't think I'd have to worry about any repercussions for it. Even better, the entire party benefits as well, and since it's 100% safe it'd be a great way to help against the undead. The innate spellcasting wouldn't be gained, but that's not worth the risk unless I felt like I could phrase it really well and the DM was having a good day.

Honestly all I want other than that is for someone to try to Wish for a Holy Avenger so I can drop a Religious Wrestler on them with the stage name "Holy Avenger".


Ahh, so much fun! My current Strahd party is 4 Halfling Divination Wizards with the Lucky Feat, and a Halfling Bard, also with Lucky Feat. We got Portents and re-rolls for days.

You guys are probably the most sadistic munchkins I've ever seen in all my experience.

I think I'm in love <3

Please tell me you have loads of fun with shenanigans, oh please. This is too funny to just not have at least one story with it xD

(What, did you think I hated my party? Nah. We love shenanigans. Personally, I think Strahd would at least be impressed with how well they managed to sneak around his castle, even if they were totally inept at everything else. I honest to god love my group, and the only reason I killed them was because, well, that's honestly what I think Strahd would have done at that point. Don't worry, they're cool with it [they thought it was pretty funny, so i guess they were just trying to see how far they could push the Dark Lord off before he killed them or something]. We're gonna try again in a week or two, mostly because they want to actually explore the realm and try again with new characters.)

[ShikomeKidoMi]

I was prepared to hear your defense and give you the benefit of the doubt. It seems fine to me that Strand would kill them. But in reading your post, I'm left with the impression that Strahd's behaviour and justification are largely just your feelings being projected onto him. It sounds an awful lot like you'd had enough of them and decided to teach them a lesson.

A lot of it does, but I will definitely take "Spend one round mocking him and then flee the very next round" as a good way to fail a worthiness test.

[HoarsHalberd]

Assuming the character knows what an Aasimar is, this is still unlikely to come up with the desired result. For example; if we substitute "Aasimar" for "Frog", what "innate abilities" are you talking about? The fact that it's amphibious? That it has strong jumping abilities for its size/weight? That it has googly eyes? No teeth? Is dependent on water to survive? Was once a tadpole? Which Aasimar traits are you looking for?

Aasimar are sentient beings too; that produces even greater variety. Which Aasimar are you talking about? Lord Fortleroy of Celestia, ruler of a heavenly domain, or Jimbob Smith the peasant farmer whose great-grandfather happened to be angelic? Lord Fortleroy is a high level adventurer with many "innate" abilities. Jimbob doesn't have quite so many.

Your example of Wishing is nowhere near specific enough to guarantee the result you desire.

See, this is the exact sort of lawyering that makes me never use Wish for anything besides 1-8 in game. The innate abilities are of course those that an Aasimar gains access to that it's mortal relatives do not. The only differences between an Aasimar of a given race and the average member of a race are the rare abilities given to them in their stat-block.
Obviously I would not wish for anything remotely as powerful as that but it brings out the worst, most rules lawyery side of any DM, myself included. "I wish for double the amount of Gold I have on my person to appear in front of me in a pile." It does, and lo and behold it's teleported to me from a dragon's hoard who has detected the loss and is now ruthlessly hunting me down for daring to steal from it. "I wish for my lost sword to be placed in front of me on the ground." "Aah but you didn't specify how far in front of you, so it does appear, and you're sure travelling in that direction will lead you to it, but it could be across an ocean for all you know." There is no wording that can be immune to the sense of glee a DM gets from crushing/perverting a wish. (Also before you say I could refine the sword wish further. "I wish for my lost sword to be placed in front of me, on the ground, blade down, within two metres of my person." "It turns out it was being held by a demon, and he teleports along with it. Roll initiative." Any further and the DM will time me and say it would take longer than the action the magic of a wish takes place across. Wishes are a no-win situation.)

[JellyPooga]

See, this is the exact sort of lawyering that makes me never use Wish for anything besides 1-8 in game.

I understand your position, but the wording of the text of the spell actively encourages DM's to let their imagination run riot with unprescribed uses of the spell. It's up to the player to couch the terms of their Wish in ways that are as specific as possible, to get their desired result, but even then the spell tells the player up-front that their Wish will probably have unforeseen consequences.

Also, the extremity of the Wish made should also figure into any potential retributive effects. The GM who makes the demon appear holding it when the Wish was to retrieve the wishers sword from across the room; he's gone way overboard. The GM who makes the sword fly across the room at speed and asks for a Dex Save to avoid damage from it; that's perhaps a fairer "twist" on the Wish under the circumstances. Small request = low-stakes = minimal "backlash". If the Wisher is wishing for a specific sword; one that's under lock and guard, has special powers or is plot critical; that's a different matter; getting the sword but having a challenge presented (e.g. a guard/demon/whatever) is far more reasonable a consequence. Big request = higher stakes = more punitive "backlash".

It's further worth considering that the options presented by the prescribed uses of the spell are very far reaching anyway. There's a lot of spells, many of which will achieve the results of many "low-stakes" requests, but without the backlash. That is also something a prospective Wisher needs to consider when making his Wish. If the Player makes a Wish that could have been exactly duplicated by a level 1-8 spell, a reasonable GM should treat it as though that spell had been cast instead; those effects are implicitly covered by the prescribed "cast a spell of level 1-8" option and should not be subject to a "backlash" effect.

[HoarsHalberd]

I understand your position, but the wording of the text of the spell actively encourages DM's to let their imagination run riot with unprescribed uses of the spell. It's up to the player to couch the terms of their Wish in ways that are as specific as possible, to get their desired result, but even then the spell tells the player up-front that their Wish will probably have unforeseen consequences.



I'm not denying the wording of the spell says that. Which is part of the reason I refuse to use it for anything besides or 1-8. It's just how it works. If I get an item that grants me a Wish, I'll hold onto it until we really need a resurrection or some effect that says "wish or divine intervention."

[Rakoa]

I saw this thread title and shot in without reading a single post here just to thank you for tagging Curse of Strahd spoilers in your thread title. Our group is going to be running it soon with me as a player for once in me damn life, and I want it as blind as possible. You are a good person.

[Coffee_Dragon]

i saw this thread title and shot in without reading a single post here just to thank you for tagging curse of strahd spoilers in your thread title. Our group is going to be running it soon with me as a player for once in me damn life, and i want it as blind as possible. You are a good person.

strahd is a bunch of tribbles in a vampire suit


Edit: Huh, humourless board edited my post to be no-caps.

[JackOfAllBuilds]

Kind of a jerk move, and definitely something to be killed by the Dark Lord for doing but...

What about "I wish for a (permanent) Forbiddance to/from Undead upon Strad (Von Zorovich)'s castle." ?

[Naanomi]

If argue that in an AL game nothing can modify the character sheet... The whole point of AL is the ability to transfer characters between tables; a character with weird racial traits and huge stat penalties 'because of a wish' isn't transferable really

[TheRedTemplar]

What about "I wish for a (permanent) Forbiddance to/from Undead upon Strad (Von Zorovich)'s castle." ?

Very clever, I'll admit. However, this will vary from table to table, but here's how I think it would play out:

Option 1: Using the Wish to cast the spell (since it's a spell of 6th level or lower), you are able to use the Wish to cast it as a permanent effect which lasts until dispelled, with no possible way for it to get twisted. However, it would be possible for someone to cast Dispel Magic on the Forbiddance Zone, allowing Strahd a possible method to get rid of it before it kills him. Also he'd probably start taking you seriously and treat you like a worthy opponent for being so clever. Kudos to you!

Option 2: Using the Wish to ask for the effect of a Forbiddance Zone, but permanent, meaning that (unlike the spell) the Zone would be incapable of being dispelled and would last forever until removed by another Wish or Divine Intervention (In Barovia? Ha!). However, because this wouldn't be a standard use, it would be twistable, and I'd either have it also Forbid Humanoids (which the spell normally wouldn't include, and would result in the party taking the damage), or have the Zone be created with a secret password the party isn't aware of, but that Strahd knows (allowing him to bypass it's effects). Or, if I really wanted to make an @$$ of myself, I'd do both! (basically reversing the intention of the spell in the first place).

It could go either way, really. Depends on how 'Permanent' you want it, I guess. And speaking of "Forbiddance"...


If argue that in an AL game nothing can modify the character sheet... The whole point of AL is the ability to transfer characters between tables; a character with weird racial traits and huge stat penalties 'because of a wish' isn't transferable really

The forbidden part wasn't that you couldn't modify the character sheet, it was that you're disallowed from using a Wish spell to wish for things that are disallowed by the Adventure's League rules, such as using outside sources for character creation (i.e. asking to be a DMG/MM class/race or playing once of those bird men) or to use it like a free rebuild (reassigning base ability scores, racial traits and class levels).

Because he wasn't asking for anything like that, the character is still AL Legal. He's just going to have a lot of DM's asking to see his log sheet in the future. I'm afraid audits will be unavoidable with such a unique and bizarre character.

Though, since no one probably reminders this since the entire thread has gone off-topic (seriously, it took one post for the topic to get de-railed), the point of this thread originally was to discuss what ramifications the introduction of the Luck Blade and it's Wish could have on the Adventure's League, how you (as a DM) would handle the situation (whether you would be granting the Wish or you'd find yourself with a player who made a Wish), or what you (as a Player) would use the Wish for, whether it be for one of the standard wishes or if you'd risk a free-form affect.

To start the topic off I then said that I, as a player, would either use the standard 'grant damage resistance to one type of your choice' wish to make an Aasimar-lite character (since going too far could end up with me like my friend, and this was one of the untwistable examples), or I'd just ask for the Luck Blade to turn into a Holy Avenger.

If I was a DM who was then asked for the latter Wish, I'd turn the Luck Blade into a fat dwarven luchador from Arcadia, with the stage name Holy Avenger and the Lucky feat.

So, not that this hasn't been fun and all, but if y'all'd like to get back on topic, how'd you handle this scenario (whether you're a player or DM)?

[JackOfAllBuilds]

How could the wish twist the Forbiddance like that? I understand the permanent (meaning the cast for a year, duration until dispelled version) is beyond casting it just once, but it is still a 1st-8th spell, following its rules.

Also Forbiddance can only pick celestials, elementals, fey, fiends, or undead. Mundane mortals aren't an option to normally twist the wish.
Also, does Strahd have a dispell?

[TheRedTemplar]

How could the wish twist the Forbiddance like that? I understand the permanent (meaning the cast for a year, duration until dispelled version) is beyond casting it just once, but it is still a 1st-8th spell, following its rules.

Also Forbiddance can only pick celestials, elementals, fey, fiends, or undead. Mundane mortals aren't an option to normally twist the wish.
Also, does Strahd have a dispell?

I had meant that if he'd wanted it to be permanent and unable to be dispelled at all, then it would no longer be totally normal to the spell (which can be dispelled, even if it's made permanent until then), hence allowing it to be twisted. In this case, because it would then have become a free-form wish, I'd be granted the power to do whatever the hell I felt like with it, including making it target mortals instead and giving Strahd the password to bypass it's effects.

The smartest way to use this would be to cast it as being Permanent until dispelled, because then it's exactly like the spell and I can't twist it, essentially giving you exactly what you want. While Strahd's statblock doesn't have Dispel Magic, I'm pretty sure his spellbook or at least the Lich's spellbook does, so it'd take him a while to get rid of it, not to mention he'd have to make the checks to do so since Forbiddance is level 6 and he can only cast up to 5th level spells. You'd effectively be able to kick him out of his home temporarily, and maybe even destroy the Dark Heart or find any of the treasures while you're at it, but he would be able to get rid of the Forbiddance eventually. And when y'all would meet again, he'd probably be pretty agitated.

[JackOfAllBuilds]

Well instead of making it permanent until dispelled, would the normal duration of 1 day be enough to get done everything you mentioned? Kick him out of his house for 24 hours and run around un-harassed by undead?

(stupid auto-correct)

[Oramac]

You guys are probably the most sadistic munchkins I've ever seen in all my experience.

I think I'm in love <3

Please tell me you have loads of fun with shenanigans, oh please. This is too funny to just not have at least one story with it xD

Too many to list! haha. But they usually go something like this:

Player: I cast [pick a spell], and the bad guy rolled a 3 on his save so he takes [lots of damage]

DM: s hit.

---------------

DM: the bad guy casts [dangerous spell] at you.

Player interupts DM: he rolled a 4 on the attack.

DM: You guys suck.

--------------

Player: I attack the bad guy and roll a 20.

DM: I hate you all.

--------------

Player: I try to jump over the pit

DM: give me an athletics check

Player: (rolls a 1) Wait! I'm a halfling. (rerolls and gets a 19)

DM: dammit all to hell.

--------------------

Shenanigans, indeed.

[TheRedTemplar]

Well instead of making it permanent until dispelled, would the normal duration of 1 day be enough to get done everything you mentioned? Kick him out of his house for 24 hours and run around unharnessed by undead?

Of course! 24 Hours is a lot of time, and while Strahd would be busy elsewhere you could totally raid his place. You'd probably kill all the undead in the estate that couldn't get out, too. I guess the main benefit over making it permanent-until-dispelled here is that Strahd would just wait it out and probably wouldn't be as annoyed as he would be if he'd have to go out and manually dispel it.


Too many to list! haha. But they usually go something like this:

Player: I cast [pick a spell], and the bad guy rolled a 3 on his save so he takes [lots of damage]

DM: s hit.

---------------

DM: the bad guy casts [dangerous spell] at you.

Player interupts DM: he rolled a 4 on the attack.

DM: You guys suck.

--------------

Player: I attack the bad guy and roll a 20.

DM: I hate you all.

--------------

Player: I try to jump over the pit

DM: give me an athletics check

Player: (rolls a 1) Wait! I'm a halfling. (rerolls and gets a 19)

DM: dammit all to hell.

--------------------

Shenanigans, indeed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEXWRTEbj1I

[coredump]

Check the AL site. They posted some guidelines for the wish.