Ways around permanency xp cost?

[magicalmagicman]

Only two ways I can think of:
1. Scrolls
2. Thought bottles.
3. Get an NPC to cast it

Does anyone know of other ways? Can you get an aboleth mage to cast it for you via planar binding and providing him a spellbook with that spell?

[Troacctid]

You could hire an NPC to cast it.

The most effective way is to use a scroll or similar pre-charged magic item.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell will do it (see: no components whatsoever, which includes XP components).

[magicalmagicman]

The dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell will do it (see: no components whatsoever, which includes XP components).

"Spells which Cost XP upon casting still cost XP to use as a Supernatural Spell"

Also, only spells with standard or shorter casting time can become supernatural. You got my hopes up for nothing :(

[MaxiDuRaritry]

"Spells which Cost XP upon casting still cost XP to use as a Supernatural Spell"

Also, only spells with standard or shorter casting time can become supernatural. You got my hopes up for nothing :(Wrong version of the dweomerkeeper. Therafirm edits their classes and spells and feats to "balance" them. Basically, homebrewed stuff. They're not what's actually in the books.

This version is in Complete Divine:


Supernatural Spell (Su): At 4th level, the dweomerkeeper is so attuned to the fabric of magic that she can manifest spell effects with almost no effort whatsoever. Once per day as a standard action, she can use any one spell with a casting time of up to 1 standard action as a supernatural ability. The spell chosen must be one that is currently available to the dweomerkeeper (that is, one that she has prepared or that she knows and has a spell slot of the appropriate level available to cast), but she can decide at the moment of casting to use this ability. The spell functions as it normally would and is expended normally, but the dweomerkeeper does not require any components, does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and ignores the target's spell resistance, just as if she were using a supernatural ability instead of a spell. At every even-numbered level after the 4th, the dweomerkeeper gains one additional use of this ability per day.

Just use miracle or limited wish to emulate permanency, and waive the XP cost via Supernatural Spell.

[magicalmagicman]

Wrong version of the dweomerkeeper. Therafirm edits their classes and spells and feats to "balance" them. Basically, homebrewed stuff. They're not what's actually in the books.

This version is in Complete Divine:



Just use miracle or limited wish to emulate permanency, and waive the XP cost via Supernatural Spell.

Good god, you're right. WOW! THIS JUST THREW OUT MY CURRENT CHARACTER BUILD!

hehehehehehehhehehehe AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhAHA

It's too bad a guy like me set his eye on this though. My new plan is to make a sorcerer whose sole combat ability is creating permanent animated objects. At first with a ravid, then with that domain spellcasting sorcerer thing grab animate objects herself. This is, too my knowledge, far from OP.

[MisterKaws]

And then good guy BBEG casts a twinned widened Greater Dispel.

[magicalmagicman]

And then good guy BBEG casts a twinned widened Greater Dispel.

I don't care about that. You can splatter my entire army 999 million times and I won't care, as long as I can make said army without any cost. :)

[Crake]

I don't care about that. You can splatter my entire army 999 million times and I won't care, as long as I can make said army without any cost. :)

Problem is I think he can dispel them way faster than you can create them. That is, unless you throw on the chain metamagic onto permanency and animate objects.

[Kelb_Panthera]

For when being a dweomerkeeper isn't an option; there's ambrosia and agony. They're joy and pain distilled into a special substance as described in BoED and BoVD. You can buy them directly if you don't mind paying the high premium costs or you can try to setup an XP farm if you think you can do it in a way that doesn't get a DMG winged at your head.

[Tvtyrant]

Planar binding will do it. Bind something with the permanent SLA, make it permanize stuff.

This is even doable without casting if you do not mind sticking knives in innocents. Greater planar binding is one of the rewards you can get for sacrificing people.

[BWR]

Develop a Necromancy spell that allows you to use other people's xp instead of your own.

[Âmesang]

I developed an abjuration spell that lets you drain magic items to fuel XP-cost spells (based on the artificer's retain essence class feature).

You could also utilize the "power component" variant rule from the DMG or use the diamond dust material component from Pathfinder.

Along with greater planar ally/binding you could attempt to command a solar angel via gate/candle of invocation; they have permanency as a spell-like ability usable thrice a day, wish once a day, and could prepare up to five miracles (assuming default stats).

Probably adds another layer of cheese to it, but see if you can custom-make single-spell staffs to cast spells upon yourself you don't know, especially when augmented with the bead of karma and a ring of enduring arcana. :smalltongue:

[magicalmagicman]

Problem is I think he can dispel them way faster than you can create them. That is, unless you throw on the chain metamagic onto permanency and animate objects.

I don't care about that. I honestly don't. I don't plan on making my army during combat. If anything I would counterspell to protect my soldiers but if they fall, so be it. I like making robot war machines, and even selling them.


For when being a dweomerkeeper isn't an option; there's ambrosia and agony. They're joy and pain distilled into a special substance as described in BoED and BoVD. You can buy them directly if you don't mind paying the high premium costs or you can try to setup an XP farm if you think you can do it in a way that doesn't get a DMG winged at your head.

There is no way ambrosia would not infuriate my DM. It would infuriate me too. Anyways those two books are in my DM's hated books territory. He might allow straight up buying them though.


Planar binding will do it. Bind something with the permanent SLA, make it permanize stuff.

This is even doable without casting if you do not mind sticking knives in innocents. Greater planar binding is one of the rewards you can get for sacrificing people.

WHICH CREATURE HAS PERMANENCY SLA? Sorry for the all-caps. I have tried to search for one, I truly did. So please enlighten me :D

[Jack_Simth]

WHICH CREATURE HAS PERMANENCY SLA? Sorry for the all-caps. I have tried to search for one, I truly did. So please enlighten me :D
A Solar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelSolar) has it directly, but is out of the "normal" range of the Planar Binding line. However, an Efreeti (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/genie.htm#efreeti), a Noble Djinn (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/genie.htm#nobleDjinn), a Glabrezu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#glabrezu), and a Pit Fiend (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#pitFiend) all have a spell-like Wish, which can duplicate Permanency.

[MisterKaws]

Wait a minute: why don't you just call pazuzu and ask him for an item of unlimited permanency?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Wait a minute: why don't you just call pazuzu and ask him for an item of unlimited permanency?

You mean aside from how unwise dealing with demon lords tends to be?

[Tvtyrant]

WHICH CREATURE HAS PERMANENCY SLA? Sorry for the all-caps. I have tried to search for one, I truly did. So please enlighten me :D

Sadly, only the Solar. You can do it at low level using LPB a more abusive way though.




All you really need is Summon Mirror Mephit (Expedition to the Demonweb Pits p. 209). Bard/Cleric/Sorcerer/Wizard 2nd level spell. It has Simulacrum 1/day as a SLA, which means standard action to cast and no material components required. Direct it to create a simulacrum of any creature up to 16 HD. Use this to get a simulacrum of an efreeti (three wishes, hit the Pun-Pun button) or a black ethergaunt (17th level Wizard spellcasting as a racial ability).

If the Mirror Mephit isn't familiar with an efreeti or black ethergaunt, it already has a Knowledge: the Planes roll of +7, so just cast or give it a potion of Guidance of the Avatar for a +20 competence bonus to its next skill check.



Quote by Darrin found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?138008-Free-casting-list-what-are-the-best-monsters-to-summon-to-abuse-SLA-to-avoid-paying).

[MisterKaws]

You mean aside from how unwise dealing with demon lords tends to be?

He'll ask for nothing except your morals, and you get a nice plot hook for later on.

Oh, and paladins get a free "test drive" in Pazuzu's pact.

[Jack_Simth]

Quote by Darrin found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?138008-Free-casting-list-what-are-the-best-monsters-to-summon-to-abuse-SLA-to-avoid-paying).
Note that Summon Mirror Memphit doesn't work for that. It's a Summon, so inherits a clause from the Summoning Subschool (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning):"A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells." (emphasis added)

Lesser Planar Binding gets around that, but then you have a secondary problem in that Simulacrum is vaguely worded - there's a troublesome clause that let's a DM nerf the ice statue into the ground without invoking rule 0: "(and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD)" (again, emphasis added)

As a 1/day ability to grant three wishes is entirely possibly not an appropriate ability for a 5 to 8 HD critter to have, the DM can say "no" very easily. Not a sure thing, though.