Question about Tome of Battle Wondrous Items (Crown of White Ravens etc.)

[muskasurfer]

If a PrC is a Warblade 20, are they able to use for example the shadow hand gloves to acquire a maneuver like Cloak of Deception, Shadow Jaunt, or Shadow Stride (these maneuvers don't have prerequisites other then the initiator level requirement)?

Warblade has access to the following disciplines: Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, and White Raven.

Swordsage has access to the following disciplines: Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, and Tiger Claw.

In other words, a warblade doesn't have access to maneuvers from the Shadow Hand discipline. Would the character still receive full use of whatever Shadow Hand maneuver is chosen?

Or, does the PrC (Warblade 20) have to pick up the Martial Study feat to acquire the desired maneuvers?

Thank you

[Keldrin]

As far as I know, if you meet the prerequisites you can use the item. For example a fighter can use shadow hand gloves to shadow jaunt if they are 4th level which qualifies for the initiator prereq of 2.

[Cosi]

You have to meet the prerequisites (ToB, page 149). If you meet the prerequisites, the maneuver does not have to be from one of your class disciplines. If you happen to know four White Raven maneuvers (perhaps from Martial Study or, I think, other Crowns of the White Raven) you can put on a 9th level Crown of the White Raven and "learn" warmaster's charge, even if you are a Swordsage or a Wizard.

[Darrin]

If a PrC is a Warblade 20, are they able to use for example the shadow hand gloves to acquire a maneuver like Cloak of Deception, Shadow Jaunt, or Shadow Stride (these maneuvers don't have prerequisites other then the initiator level requirement)?


Yes. Warblades can add maneuvers from disciplines they don't know if they can satisfy the prerequisites. Maneuvers without any prerequisites (such as Shadow Jaunt) can be added this way.

However, there are two areas of ambiguity with these "Crown of the White Raven" items:

1) It's not clear if the designers intended for Initiator Level to be included as part of the prerequisites. Most people play that they do. But you may encounter a few oddball "Literal RAW Purists (when it suits them)" who insist that using one of these items allows them to ignore the Initiator Level requirement.

2) It's not clear if these items allow you to add a stance. In certain instances, ToB says stances are not maneuvers. In other instances, it says they are. And somewhere else it also says that sometimes stances count as maneuvers for certain things.