Can you improve golems after they are built?

[magicalmagicman]

I think I remember seeing a rule like that but can't find it, so it's possible it might be just my imagination.

What I'm talking about is like you make a 18hd Iron Golem, and then whenever you have the gp and XP you upgrade him to a 19hd one, and then a 20hd one, etc.

[ganondorf50]

its always okay to change monster hit die to change the challenge for the party. Its also fun to give them class levels

[ExLibrisMortis]

Artificers can definitely do this with their homunculi, but I'm not sure on golems. It seems pretty harmless to allow it.

[Gildedragon]

You can always awaken the steely beast and have it level up

[magicalmagicman]

You can always awaken the steely beast and have it level up

Never! Sentience leads to rebellion.

So I take it as a universal no then?

[Gildedragon]

Never! Sentience leads to rebellion.

So I take it as a universal no then?

Rereading the golem entry and... I'd say the opposite. If you have the 5000gp per hit die and 50000gp if it results in size increase... Yeah you can advance the golem

Also benefits of intelligence: harder to fool, more skill points (they can balance now), and will appreciate how nice it is that you polish them so they won't rust.

[unseenmage]

In Pathfinder, yes. They even have a rule somewhere that let's a construct's creator lay a hand on it, speak the word, and shut it off.

I'm 3.x? Doubtful by RAW. Though it would be a more than reasonable houser Ile.

[ganondorf50]

its always okay to change monster hit die to change the challenge for the party. Its also fun to give them class levels

I have a follow up question. Are you a player or DM?

[magicalmagicman]

I have a follow up question. Are you a player or DM?

I am a Player :)

[Kelb_Panthera]

You could always slap on some grafts or always-on/use activated magic items. It still has the same 12 magic item slots as any other roughly humanoid-shaped creature.

Heh, clay-golem wrapped in plate armor could screw with some observers.

[unseenmage]

The spell Greater Humanoid Essence from (IIRC) Races of Eberron turns the target construct into a Humanoid for the duration.

This allows for some interesting templating opportunities.

Werewolf Iron Golem anyone?

(Additionally, effects dependant on type do not go away when the construct changes back either.
Were this the case the spell Greater Humanoid Essence would cease to function as soon as it took effect.)

[Swaoeaeieu]

The spell Greater Humanoid Essence from (IIRC) Races of Eberron turns the target construct into a Humanoid for the duration.

This allows for some interesting templating opportunities.

Werewolf Iron Golem anyone?

(Additionally, effects dependant on type do not go away when the construct changes back either.
Were this the case the spell Greater Humanoid Essence would cease to function as soon as it took effect.)

Could you explain how that works? why does the golem keeo the werewolf template after the spell has ended?

[ganondorf50]

I am a Player :)

ignore my previous advice I was operating under the fact that I thought you were the DM sorry about that.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Could you explain how that works? why does the golem keeo the werewolf template after the spell has ended?

There are no rules, in general, for templates being removed once they're acquired. There may be a few exceptions but they clearly call out how they're removed in their individual entries. Once you're a werewolf, it doesn't matter that you stop being humanoid or giant, you're still a werewolf.

[Mikalo]

I can imagine xzibit pimping a golem

[Necroticplague]

Could you explain how that works? why does the golem keeo the werewolf template after the spell has ended?
Because it has the template. Once your have the template, you don't lose it. Templates don't need you to constantly qualify for them. In fact, if they did, a lot of templates would be flat-out unusable if this wasn't the case (for example, all the undead templates that say "can be applied to any living....creature").

Or, in simpler terms, why would the golem lose the template after the spell has ended?

[unseenmage]

Could you explain how that works? why does the golem keeo the werewolf template after the spell has ended?

The parenthetical in my post is the explanation.

Simply, if changing type stopped ongoing effects then the spell itself would stop working as soon as it changed the creature's type.

That and as other posters have mentioned templates don't just fall off when spell durations end unless they say they do.

Necropolitan Golems could be fun too. :smallsmile:

[Swaoeaeieu]

Because it has the template. Once your have the template, you don't lose it. Templates don't need you to constantly qualify for them. In fact, if they did, a lot of templates would be flat-out unusable if this wasn't the case (for example, all the undead templates that say "can be applied to any living....creature").

Or, in simpler terms, why would the golem lose the template after the spell has ended?

while it does make sense. a werewolf golem seems more like a bug then a feature. but then again, thats why we love dnd 3.5 right?

[unseenmage]

while it does make sense. a werewolf golem seems more like a bug then a feature. but then again, thats why we love dnd 3.5 right?

I know it's part of why I love monster building in 3.x/PF.

Not less dumb than the Owlbear or the Anthropomorphic Whale or the Were-Tyrannosaurus.

There's also a 3rd party templates in the Advanced Bestiary which has an option for construct and undead were creatures. Monstrous Lycanthrope IIRC.

[Tiri]

You can always awaken the steely beast and have it level up

You mean with the spell that only works on animals and trees?

[Necroticplague]

You mean with the spell that only works on animals and trees?

Spell Compendium, page 21.

[Tiri]

Spell Compendium, page 21.

Oh. Right. I forgot about that one. Personally I always felt that it was a bit limiting to have it only be applicable to human-shaped constructs.

[Inevitability]

Oh. Right. I forgot about that one. Personally I always felt that it was a bit limiting to have it only be applicable to human-shaped constructs.

Shapechange into a medusa, cast Stone Shape, cast Freedom.

Now the construct is human-shaped.

[Âmesang]

Such thoughts have often come to mind, for I greatly desire to sic a calzone golem upon more than a party of low-level adventurers.

"It's Pizza the Hutt!"

[digiman619]

At least that'd be better than the Manure Golem Spoony and Bennet talked about...

[magicalmagicman]

So I guess it's a universal NO. You can improve a golem by creative means, but you can't advance their HD.

[Gildedragon]

So I guess it's a universal NO. You can improve a golem by creative means, but you can't advance their HD.
AFAIK there is no rule that constructs can't advance HD so just have them gain XP or pay for the extra HDs