Getting a new computer

[Triskavanski]

After about 8+ years of service the last rig I had is making a lot of funny noises and the like. Video card keeps crashing, computer slows down after loading google and firefox, etc..

So I figure its time to finally upgrade the machine. I do plan on cleaning out and setting up the old machine to run as a mini-server once I start doing techy stuff with it. (Like finding out where the buzz buzz sound is coming from, replacing the fans, and giving it a good cleansing. )

So I want a new computer that is pretty good, and hopefully could be cannibalized later. But is still fairly cheap..

Enter the Asus Computer (http://www.frys.com/product/8728121?source=google&gclid=CjwKEAjwuPi3BRClk8TyyMLloxgSJAAC0XsjgXmrARcg ejdolDImQ-R0AggpjSp7f3q16E8aXgf3QRoCg7nw_wcB) I don't really feel like trying to figure out all the parts of a computer and trying to get them all together to come up with this. Two issues though is the weak power supply and the lack of a decent video card.

It does have a slot for one. So I'm trying to figure out a good one I could get that is 300w, and possibly even better if it is even possible to take out old power supply to put in a new, more powerful one to allow more powerful video cards to be put in.

[factotum]

You can most likely switch out the PSU, but it's not 100% guaranteed--I have a HP machine in bits downstairs I was intending to cannibalise for parts, only to realise that the PSU is around 10mm "taller" than the standard size and thus won't fit in a standard ATX case. Had to buy a PSU instead.

As for graphics card, I have a GeForce 750Ti in my PC that I bought specifically because it's one of the most power-efficient cards around--it's not going to scare a Titan X in terms of performance, but it uses so little power that it's able to run purely off the power supplied by the PCI-e slot (e.g. doesn't need an additional power connector from the PSU, as most modern cards do). It runs GTA5 and Fallout 4 fine at 1080p.

[Silfir]

Well, there's nothing particularly wrong with the machine you're looking at, or swapping out the power supply for a proper one so you can actually power a GPU with it. (A 300W PSU is probably tapped out just powering your CPU and everything else. Especially considering neither the manufacturer nor the efficiency rating are listed.) The 12 GB RAM thing is odd - those will be two mismatched RAM sticks filling both of the available RAM slots.

I do think it's worth it to figure out the necessary steps in building a computer, for three reasons:

a) You have control over all the parts, meaning you can optimize the machine for the tasks you want it to perform and buy what you need and nothing else,
b) You'll pay quite a bit less than you would for a pre-built,
c) It is not at all hard to build a desktop PC.

I did a check on pcpartpicker.com and it seems that if you assemble a machine with roughly these specs (I don't know the exact parts, but I put in reasonable options), you would be at around $550. That includes buying a full licence of Windows 10, which pre-built manufacturers can usually include for cheap (but as an OEM license that might be locked to the motherboard or something) - but you might be able to reuse your old Windows license. If it's a Windows 7 one, all the better.

It's not a terrible deal - about as good as deals are going to get in the pre-built PC world. But still not nearly as good a deal as you can get if you build yourself. I mean, you're already planning to swap out the PSU for a better model and expanding the machine with a GPU. Both of these jobs will force you to take a screwdriver to the thing anyway and figure out where the cables go. Why not do the same with the rest of it?



EDIT: Before I run a 750 Ti on this PSU, I'd check who made it. Not all 300W PSUs are created equal, and you won't find top quality in pre-builts.

[shawnhcorey]

I agree with the others: 300w sounds way underpowered. One of the reason you may want an "overpowered" PSU is that it will be more stable when running at less than maximum power.

[Winter_Wolf]

In my experience, you'd need to "win the PSU lottery" for a 300w PSU to handle a proper graphics card. Actually I'm pretty sure I did so myself when I got a Radeon 5570 Sapphire that ran just fine on a stock Dell with a (probably) 250w PSU. A Windows update and old age finally killed it, but it went down fighting. I wouldn't trust that to be the rule, though.

[tyckspoon]

I agree with the others: 300w sounds way underpowered. One of the reason you may want an "overpowered" PSU is that it will be more stable when running at less than maximum power.

Man I love when I get to be contrarian about this.. 300 watts will run a system similar to the spec linked just fine. The processor is rated 65w. Hard drive is 10ish, and that's high for a hard drive. Maybe 40 for the mobo. 5 apiece for 2 sticks RAM, and 2-3 per for cpu heat sink and case fan. Run it flat out (which most people only achieve with test programs made to do so) and it'll eat around 150w. Plenty of room to add a GPU asking for 75w (max available through the PCIE slot alone) and still have capacity to spare for PSU inefficiency or not actually being able to supply 300 watts.

Admittedly I'd still be more comfortable doing that with a PSU I picked myself, and I'm in agreement with the other posters - by the time you swap the psu and add a discrete GPU, you've eliminated a lot of the cost benefit and convenience of buying a prebuild and should consider rolling your own from parts.

[tyckspoon]

I agree with the others: 300w sounds way underpowered. One of the reason you may want an "overpowered" PSU is that it will be more stable when running at less than maximum power.

Man I love when I get to be contrarian about this.. 300 watts will run a system similar to the spec linked just fine. The processor is rated 65w. Hard drive is 10ish, and that's high for a hard drive. Maybe 40 for the mobo. 5 apiece for 2 sticks RAM, and 2-3 per for cpu heat sink and case fan. Run it flat out (which most people only achieve with test programs made to do so) and it'll eat around 150w. Plenty of room to add a GPU asking for 75w (max available through the PCIE slot alone) and still have capacity to spare for PSU inefficiency or not actually being able to supply 300 watts.

Admittedly I'd still be more comfortable doing that with a PSU I picked myself, and I'm in agreement with the other posters - by the time you swap the psu and add a discrete GPU, you've eliminated a lot of the cost benefit and convenience of buying a prebuild and should consider rolling your own from parts.

[Silfir]

I've done some digging and reading on the PSU in question. From what I read it has just enough amperage to manage a 750 Ti.

It's a good upgrade to be doing if you already have the pre-built and the tiny PSU and you need credible GPU performance for not a lot of money.

It's hard to recommend that from scratch, though, considering that ~$700 can get you all the parts (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/mHGnkL) for a machine that can probably run GTA VI and Fallout 5.

As far as I can tell, there are two advantages to a pre-built PC: Someone else built it for you, and the manufacturer warranty. That same warranty becomes quite a bit harder to get use out of if you open the case and break the warranty seal. At that point, you've essentially paid someone $100 for a job you could do yourself in an afternoon with a screwdriver.

[factotum]

At that point, you've essentially paid someone $100 for a job you could do yourself in an afternoon with a screwdriver.

Which is actually something people do all the time--cleaners, cooks and gardeners wouldn't exist otherwise! You also missed that this other person might well do the job *better* than you can, since they do it all the time and have a lot more practice. I've been on a process of rolling upgrades since I first got a PC back in 1994, but that's mainly been a cost-saving measure--if I had a bit more money I'd happily save myself a boatload of time and effort and just buy a pre-built.

[Silfir]

Which is actually something people do all the time--cleaners, cooks and gardeners wouldn't exist otherwise! You also missed that this other person might well do the job *better* than you can, since they do it all the time and have a lot more practice. I've been on a process of rolling upgrades since I first got a PC back in 1994, but that's mainly been a cost-saving measure--if I had a bit more money I'd happily save myself a boatload of time and effort and just buy a pre-built.

Good point to bring up. Ironically, it's precisely because you do know what goes on inside a PC that going for a pre-built would be a valid option, provided you don't have to worry particularly about money. (Triskavanski's post, though, suggests money isn't present in abundance - they're looking for something "fairly cheap" that they can "cannibalize", i.e. re-use in future builds. The only parts in this ASUS pre-built that I can say with some confidence match both of these criteria are the CPU, one RAM stick and the Windows licence.)

That's the crucial factor I'm trying to get at. It's not buying a pre-built PC in itself that's truly problematic, it's doing so because you want to avoid having to acquire the knowledge necessary to judge whether a pre-built PC is a good deal or not. With cleaners, cooks and gardeners, you can look at - or taste - the end product and you'll be able to tell whether they've done a good job or not.

Assembly is just one part of that job - the other is part selection. Not just in terms of quality, and marketing - there are way too many i7s in pre-builts out there, and very rarely quality parts at an affordable price - only the user actually is equipped to tell what parts they actually need to do the jobs they want to do. To do that, once again, you have to understand what goes on inside a computer. Why, for instance, an i5 is completely sufficient for gaming, and the money that goes into an i7 is better spent on a higher tier GPU.



I just can't help but feel Triskavanski is in a similar position as I've been in the ten years or so before I built my first PC: I had all the savvy I needed - I had been swapping various parts in various machines for ages - I just overestimated how complex it was going to be.

[Triskavanski]

Yeah, I've got some savvy abilities. I can do ram, cards, drives, fans, etc, but the one area I have a hard time with is the CPU and heatsink. I've had to have a friend help me the first time, second time when i tried myself, I ended up having to bring it into a computer repair shop anyways as my job was insufficient for it.

I bought the computer over the weekend, and ran it the whole weekend to make sure that there wasn't any major bugs. Was even able to run some simple games with the onboard graphics like Royal Heroes and Path of Exile. Then got a windows update that for whatever reason, made the onboard graphics no longer compatible with Royal Heroes and then Path of Exile started maxing out the CPU.

So I popped the seal and installed graphics card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1N83U90748). After a bit of panic, some anger, and a pinch of exasperation, I managed to get it in and running. Played through Warframe and Path of Exile again. Which was great, (Though the new warframe stuff confuses me)

This is totally one of the biggest graphics cards I have had. Even the ones for my other machine were not this big, though admittedly most of it is the cooling system. Now that I've got this computer up and working and capable of performing my daily needs, I'll be working on trying to get the other one cleaned out. I'll post some screen shots of the inside of the asus computer here in a bit.

[factotum]

Both the other 750Ti variants on that site were much smaller single-fan affairs, which is what mine's like. Why does that model need the double fan arrangement? Is it factory overclocked, or something?

[Silfir]

Most GPUs are factory overclocked to a certain degree. GPU manufacturers take the card, come up with their own cooling solutions and set the cards at what they deem the highest completely safe clock speed their cooling solution allows.

The clock speed on this is only very slightly higher than the single-fan version (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487024&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker,%20LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=), though. It seems the main purpose of the extra fan is to facilitate yet more overclocking - but I doubt that'd work super well on a tiny PSU. (It barely makes the cut as it is, after all.) I don't think going for the double fan card was a good use of the dollars spent. (The newegg users seem to think so - the single fan card gets a 5 out of 5 compared to this one's 4 out of 5.)

[Triskavanski]

I think the two fan config is also their new style of heatsink and the like. Granted, I have no plans to overclock anything. But it does make look nice and big.


Overall, so far, the computer is working quite well. Unlike my Old PC, I'm easily able to alt-tab out of things like warframe and go back in, with nothing getting stuck.

[VanessaReynold]

A creative idea to do with your old Computer’s box! Now it’s not a problem any more for me where to put it!