d&d 3.5 duelist class

[theboss]

Hello there,
In my group's campign we came acrossed a powerful Drow Duelist which proably have some swashbucker levels.
His AC tending to 45, and we're level 15..
My question is : If i had to fight him (in the last session it ended when he waited in my room telling me there's something he needs me to do..)
how is the best way i can fight him? Should i surprise him so his AC wouldnt be so crazy? Can you explain to me how did he get to this AC.?
Thanks in advance

[Inevitability]

The standard way to deal with high AC is to not target it.

If you have a wizard/cleric, let them use offensive spells like Dominate Person, Slay Living, Mummify and Destruction (try to pick spells that don't require an attack roll). You can cast Assay Spell Resistance first to overcome his SR more easily.

[theboss]

The standard way to deal with high AC is to not target it.

If you have a wizard/cleric, let them use offensive spells like Dominate Person, Slay Living, Mummify and Destruction (try to pick spells that don't require an attack roll). You can cast Assay Spell Resistance first to overcome his SR more easily.

My question wasnt how to kill a Duelist, my question was how do a fighter build can fight him...
I know there're many spells that can easily defeat him, but again he's high level and a drow, further, as mentioned above, that wasnt my question.

EDIT : Sorry if i was being rude...

[darksolitaire]

Tripping and grappling target his touch AC. Disarming and sundering are tested by opposing attack rolls. Feinting removes his dex bonus to AC. If you don't have enough attack bonus to hit him, I assume you are tanky enough to survive enough turns to try out different things and see what works.

[theboss]

Tripping and grappling target his touch AC. Disarming and sundering are tested by opposing attack rolls. Feinting removes his dex bonus to AC. If you don't have enough attack bonus to hit him, I assume you are tanky enough to survive enough turns to try out different things and see what works.

I'm not tanky, but i'm a trip monkey fighter 12/CoC 2/Swashbucker 1, Using some of the Jack B.Quick build.
I can hit him, but i fear he'd outdamage me cause i'd hit about 4 or 5 attacks out of my 8 (inculding trip and boots of haste), and that's with alot of luck in d20 result.

[MisterKaws]

Tripping and grappling target his touch AC. Disarming and sundering are tested by opposing attack rolls. Feinting removes his dex bonus to AC. If you don't have enough attack bonus to hit him, I assume you are tanky enough to survive enough turns to try out different things and see what works.

I don't think a duelist's touch AC is going to be that low anyway, and it's possibly the same as his normal AC...

[KillianHawkeye]

I don't think a duelist's touch AC is going to be that low anyway, and it's possibly the same as his normal AC...

Actually, neither the Swashbuckler class nor the Duelist prestige class grant uncanny dodge, surprisingly. So unless this drow had room in his build for 4 levels of Rogue (which would totally work thanks to the Daring Outlaw feat) or 2 levels of Barbarian (MUCH less likely), trying to get him without his Dex bonus is probably worth a shot since it also shuts down his canny defense ability.

At least, if it doesn't work, you'll learn that he most likely also has a bunch of sneak attack dice that you should watch out for.

[theboss]

Actually, neither the Swashbuckler class nor the Duelist prestige class grant uncanny dodge, surprisingly. So unless this drow had room in his build for 4 levels of Rogue (which would totally work thanks to the Daring Outlaw feat) or 2 levels of Barbarian (MUCH less likely), trying to get him without his Dex bonus is probably worth a shot since it also shuts down his canny defense ability.

At least, if it doesn't work, you'll learn that he most likely also has a bunch of sneak attack dice that you should watch out for.

Maybe you're right, I beileve he's about level 18th. So his build would probaly be : Rogue X/Swashbucker (8-X)/Deulist 10.
So again, What would be the best way to fight him? Should i surprise him by stabbing him the back? (which i dont think it'll work because there's some feat that grant you "Eyes In The back of your head" any way that someone could find that feat?
So what am i to do?

[MisterKaws]

Can you at least give us some details on your build? That'd help a lot.

[theboss]

Can you at least give us some details on your build? That'd help a lot.

Sure.
Im large size (magic item), Two Weapon Fighting style.
Feats :
1).TWF, Combat Expertise
2).dodge
3.Improved Trip
4).Knock-Down
6).ITWF,Combat Reflaxes
8).Mobility
9).Double hit
10).WF(longsword)
12).mounted combat, robilar's gambit
13).Elusive Target
15).GTWF

+1 vampiric longsword in each hand.


what more?

[MisterKaws]

Sure.
Im large size (magic item), Two Weapon Fighting style.
Feats :
1).TWF, Combat Expertise
2).dodge
3.Improved Trip
4).Knock-Down
6).ITWF,Combat Reflaxes
8).Mobility
9).Double hit
10).WF(longsword)
12).mounted combat, robilar's gambit
13).Elusive Target
15).GTWF

+1 vampiric longsword in each hand.


what more?

With that build, the only feasible way I see is betting on the dice: keep spamming attacks till they hit; the odds will be against you, though.

[theboss]

With that build, the only feasible way I see is betting on the dice: keep spamming attacks till they hit; the odds will be against you, though.

So Flat-footing him wouldnt be good enough? because of the uncany dodge?
Basically, nothing for me to do expect betting on the dice...

[MisterKaws]

So Flat-footing him wouldnt be good enough? because of the uncany dodge?
Basically, nothing for me to do expect betting on the dice...

You could bet on flat-footing, but he will most likely(95%) have uncanny dodge, so yes.

[KillianHawkeye]

Okay, well you don't seem to have any good ways of getting him without his Dex bonus besides a surprise attack (and even that's a little iffy considering the target is likely to have an above average initiative), so whether or not he has uncanny dodge is a moot point after the first round.

I guess your best bet is to TRY for a surprise attack, but mainly just knock him down and keep wailing on him. Given your size and probable Strength, and the target's probable lack thereof, tripping should be easy if you can hit him. And being tripped makes him easier to hit and hopefully costs him actions to stand back up again. Combined with your reach, it might make getting away from you difficult, at least. Then again, with a high AC (and even extra bonuses vs Attacks of Opportunity), keeping him close when he really wants to flee won't be easy. You can maybe mitigate this with terrain, by making your attack when inside an enclosed area. The smaller the better.

But yeah, it sorta sounds like this guy is designed entirely to be difficult to kill. So... best of luck, and all that.

[Ellowryn]

While your build isn't great, going both twf with longswords and trip is kinda odd, you are not exactly in that horrible of a position. Make sure to always be in robilar's stance that way you get to attack back, don't really worry too much about how much damage he will be dealing even if your DM throws in a way for him to constantly use any SA he might have, you will have more than enough HP. Eventually one of your attacks will land and assuming you deal at least 10 damage you will get to trip him, severely reducing both his offense and defense. Sure he could move around, but that only reduces his damage even more.

Btw, i don't see the Oversized TWF feat? Your to-hit penalties will be greatly reduced if you can work that into your build (probably not right away unless your DM allows retraining) but its something to work for if you want to duel wield one handed weapons.

[theboss]

While your build isn't great, going both twf with longswords and trip is kinda odd, you are not exactly in that horrible of a position. Make sure to always be in robilar's stance that way you get to attack back, don't really worry too much about how much damage he will be dealing even if your DM throws in a way for him to constantly use any SA he might have, you will have more than enough HP. Eventually one of your attacks will land and assuming you deal at least 10 damage you will get to trip him, severely reducing both his offense and defense. Sure he could move around, but that only reduces his damage even more.

Btw, i don't see the Oversized TWF feat? Your to-hit penalties will be greatly reduced if you can work that into your build (probably not right away unless your DM allows retraining) but its something to work for if you want to duel wield one handed weapons.

There's a magic item that lets you hold weapons one size catogery larger than you.


Okay, well you don't seem to have any good ways of getting him without his Dex bonus besides a surprise attack (and even that's a little iffy considering the target is likely to have an above average initiative), so whether or not he has uncanny dodge is a moot point after the first round.

I guess your best bet is to TRY for a surprise attack, but mainly just knock him down and keep wailing on him. Given your size and probable Strength, and the target's probable lack thereof, tripping should be easy if you can hit him. And being tripped makes him easier to hit and hopefully costs him actions to stand back up again. Combined with your reach, it might make getting away from you difficult, at least. Then again, with a high AC (and even extra bonuses vs Attacks of Opportunity), keeping him close when he really wants to flee won't be easy. You can maybe mitigate this with terrain, by making your attack when inside an enclosed area. The smaller the better.

But yeah, it sorta sounds like this guy is designed entirely to be difficult to kill. So... best of luck, and all that.

I dont think i'll get to choose where we fight, its just a precaution when he/I will decide the other interupting me/his planes.
And ty.

[Deadline]

There's a magic item that lets you hold weapons one size catogery larger than you.



I dont think i'll get to choose where we fight, its just a precaution when he/I will decide the other interupting me/his planes.
And ty.

If we're thinking of the same item, it doesn't make the longswords a light weapon, so it doesn't reduce your TWF penalties.

Also, do you even need to fight this NPC? If so, then fight him with the rest of your party. It'd be foolish to try to solo him.

[Sir Chuckles]

Throw marbles at him and hope he doesn't have too many ranks in balance?

[Inevitability]

My question wasnt how to kill a Duelist, my question was how do a fighter build can fight him...
I know there're many spells that can easily defeat him, but again he's high level and a drow, further, as mentioned above, that wasnt my question.

I'm sorry, I didn't know you were a fighter build from the first post.

[theboss]

If we're thinking of the same item, it doesn't make the longswords a light weapon, so it doesn't reduce your TWF penalties.

Im large, which means i can hold medium longsword in each hand , right?
Now, with this item, i can hold weapons which are one size catogery larger than me. So if i fight with 2 medium longswords, it lets me hold 2 large longswords.



Also, do you even need to fight this NPC? If so, then fight him with the rest of your party. It'd be foolish to try to solo him.

No, i dont need to fight this NPC. But as mentioned above its a precaution when he decides he doesnt need me anymore or/and im interupting his plans... 2 members can easliy take him toghter, but im talking about the scenario when i dont have another option but to fight him 1 vs 1.

[MisterKaws]

Im large, which means i can hold medium longsword in each hand , right?
Now, with this item, i can hold weapons which are one size catogery larger than me. So if i fight with 2 medium longswords, it lets me hold 2 large longswords.

No. Unless your DM uses the size variant rule, you're taking both the penalties for wielding weapons not suited to your size, and the penalties of wielding two one-handed weapons, which should mean you are as likely to hit something as that near-sighted peasant.

Oops, reviewed the rules, this one doesn't apply in this case, since the weapons get treated as light. Still gets the inappropriate weapon size penalty.