Amphetryon
2016-04-03, 05:13 PM
The threat title's question is particularly relevant for Greater Barghests, because of their increased mental scores, leading them to actually think through their courses of action and consequences.
The problem is the following lines in Charm Person, which Charm Monster shares:
If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.
The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing.
Now, I could understand if the (Greater) Barghest were listed as using the Charm Monster as a means of avoiding confrontation ('These are not the worgs you're looking for') or allaying suspicion ('what big teeth you have, Grandma'), but their description clearly indicates otherwise:
Barghests start a combat by using crushing despair and charm monster
How would a Barghest (or anyone else) use Charm Monster in a way that does not immediately either invoke the 'opposed Charisma check' clause, violate the 'never obey suicidal or obviously harmful orders' clause, or put the Barghest at a tactical disadvantage, relative to the position it had when it used the ability? As an opening salvo in combat, my group was seriously at a loss to come up with any use a Greater Barghest could name that would not reasonably hit one of those markers. Given their aforementioned mental stats, that seems like an awfully poor ability to open combat, essentially dooming the creature to wasting its first action on an ability with multiple chances for the opponent to avoid any consequence.
The problem is the following lines in Charm Person, which Charm Monster shares:
If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.
The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing.
Now, I could understand if the (Greater) Barghest were listed as using the Charm Monster as a means of avoiding confrontation ('These are not the worgs you're looking for') or allaying suspicion ('what big teeth you have, Grandma'), but their description clearly indicates otherwise:
Barghests start a combat by using crushing despair and charm monster
How would a Barghest (or anyone else) use Charm Monster in a way that does not immediately either invoke the 'opposed Charisma check' clause, violate the 'never obey suicidal or obviously harmful orders' clause, or put the Barghest at a tactical disadvantage, relative to the position it had when it used the ability? As an opening salvo in combat, my group was seriously at a loss to come up with any use a Greater Barghest could name that would not reasonably hit one of those markers. Given their aforementioned mental stats, that seems like an awfully poor ability to open combat, essentially dooming the creature to wasting its first action on an ability with multiple chances for the opponent to avoid any consequence.